Government For The People
They have grown fat and sleek. They know no bounds in deeds of wickedness; they judge not with justice the cause of the fatherless, that they may prosper; they do not defend the rights of the poor. Jeremiah 5:27-28
Do Not Defend – Is Jeremiah speaking about us? Have we grown fat and sleek at the expense of overlooking wickedness and refusing to defend the rights of the poor? You might say, “No. I’m not like that. I’m struggling too. I’m not rich. I’m just one of the ordinary people.” But Jeremiah’s accusation still stings. The richest 250 people in the world have more wealth than the poorest 2.5 billion people in the world. Does that seem right to you? Does your lifestyle support this enormous disparity? Eighty-nine percent of all pornographic websites are produced in the United States. Forty-nine percent of men do not believe that an online affair is adultery. And forty percent of all pregnancies in America end in abortion (50 million children have been murdered so far). Are these not terrifying evils? Who has benefitted from such atrocities? Did you know that Comcast made $50 million on in-home pornographic television last year?
The Hebrew verbal root translated “do not defend” is shaphat. It is a much bigger umbrella than simply legal or moral defense. Shaphat is about government! In Hebrew thought, shaphat covers the executive, legislative and judicial aspects of governing. Everything from creating laws to rulings in the court are covered. Consider the application. Jeremiah holds the entire government responsible, particularly the leaders and the powerful. Anyone who contributes to the exploitation of the poor stands in opposition to God. No wonder my accountant friend Micah is concerned about even being a part of the United States economy.
Now notice one other important element. We have often mentioned that no follower of YHWH has any inalienable rights. Life itself is a gift. It does not come with a bill of rights. We do not deserve housing, jobs, justice, education, fair treatment, free speech or anything else simply because we are alive. The fact that we enjoy some of these gifts is entirely due to God’s grace and human alignment with His mercy. But there are some who do have rights – God-given rights. Jeremiah is not alone among the prophets to mention them. Those who have rights granted by God are the ebonim (singular ebyon), people who are in want or need of material goods. There are four Hebrew words translated “poor.” Dal is a person at the bottom of the social ladder (“the poor will always be with you”). Rash is a person who is weak or destitute. Anaw are the oppressed. Ebyon emphasizes the lack of material goods. In a culture where possessions were the basis of power, these people are exploited because they have no resources to resist the powerful. They are the powerless. It is the king’s job to stand up for them. God grants them rights!
You and I probably have no claim on the rights God grants. Most likely, we are not among the ebonim. We are much more often associated with the fat and the sleek. But when we ignore those rights granted by God we incur terrible consequences. And any government that exploits the ones God protects will surely be punished.
I wonder what God hears from the blood of 50 million powerless infants. I wonder how He feels about the cry of those who are victims of greed. I wonder how His heart is turned when He witnesses the millions who live in squalor because the rich world cares more about the newest iPhone. If the bloods (yes, it is plural) of Abel cry out from the earth, and God brings swift judgment, how much more does our world deserve His wrath?
Is there time to turn the tide? Perhaps not. James Black’s work suggests we have passed the point of recovery. But there is time today to recover our personal alignment. We can stop our own endorsement of the disparity. We can do justice today. That might be all we can do but God will use it for His good.
Topical Index: needy, ebonim, poor, government, shaphat, defend, Jeremiah 5:27-28
“we have passed the point of recovery”
If I may also use Leonardo de Caprio’s quote in Blood Diamond: “God has left Africa long ago”, I must say that most of the time, looking at everything(Municipalities,hospitals, schools) going to ruins, that I sometimes feel the same. You build a few houses, feed a few children, dress a few aids orphens, but nothing you do change the bigger picture. Hospital and clinic buildings are empty and can’t be re-used for cheap housing, because it is goverment property. There is enough goverment money available, but it is used by “the fat and the sleek”.
Oops!But I live a fat and sleek life! Obviously I have’nt been listening good enough and tried hard enough to get myself into God-shape!
And still I MUST go on believing that God can and will save His peole in Africa even though my own aim this passed year has shifted from : compassion for the tribes of Africa, to getting my own family to be Torah observant and Hebrew rooted and born from above.
Now I will go out again ” to do justice”. And when the people of Africa turn to the YHWH God, there will be no stopping them( don’t know how many of you know how it feels in a riat, or strike or toi-toi of thousands of people singing, marching and dancing on the same song of which the words are very close to : ” we deserve jobs,housing, justice, education……”, but we serve the gods of our forefathers, pray to waterspirits and be in the songoma( witch doctor) I pray that one day they will sing, march and dance to YHWH.
And may be, when all the schools are burned down, all the hospitals are closed, all the municipalities are bancrupt, Johannesburg and Cape Town are out of running water and all the church buildings are empty, may be then we will start a HEBREW COMMUNITY. May be its not so bad being a third world country. We might be closer to community than many others.
sorry, must be :”believe in witch doctors”
While I have some time now, I would also like to comment on the past week’s posts by sharing with you how the Lord lead me to Torah, Hebrew roots and hebrew life.
Three years ago, I did the study on John Bevere’s book: Driven by Eternity(not Torah or Hebrew). And in the allegory of Affabel there are five friends, Selfish, Faintheart, Charity, Independent and Deceived. I struggled with Faintheart ( how must the Lord forgive me, if I cannot forgive others) for many months, but then I got hit over the head by Deceived. During this same time, my precious obeying friend gave me my first Torah portions. And with the combination of asking the questions of where and in what and how have I been deceived for so many years ,Torah and the Lords Spirit, Roach Hakodesh, my life was changed. Our God is so wonderfully great! He used Mr Bevere, who wants to be used, in a way he would never have expected. So I do pray for him and I know that 2 years ago Mr Bevere asked Monte Judah his comments on how to keep Sabbath.
Amanda and everyone in turmoil: one way for the tree you have been grafted into is able to flourish(not grow=water) is either by pruning or fertilization. On the farm I use organic manure which is smelly, takes time to disintegrate and sometime attract a lot of flies. So in trouble times, when things around you(the situation your in) starts to smell, know that you are getting some good organic fertilizer. I know you will not only grow new branches, but give beautiful blossoms and good fruit as well. And in difficult times I always recall John 6:21 “Then they were willing to take him into the boat, and INSTANTLY the boat reached the land were they were heading for”(CJB) When in a storm, I pray for this miracle to happen in my life.
Thank you for both of your posts. I like your example of the fertilizer. 🙂 I think He must have dumped a cartload on us! Ah well, as you say, it may stink, but beauty comes from it.
All things considered, as difficult as it is, it is still much more than most people have in other parts of the world. My mom’s boss is the head of Campus Crusade in Africa, so I get to hear stories and see pictures. It’s a fascinating country, an interesting mix of desolation and beauty. As strange as it sounds, your comment that they may actually be closer to community is probably true – they don’t have to “stuff” to contend with, like the rich young man who wanted to follow Yeshua but went away sad because he was asked to give up all his “stuff.”
I so love agricultural metaphors. Luzette you are so right on.
The pruning is very important as well. There are different methods of pruning for different purposes and they are all important. A bareroot tree when first planted is cut way back to send the energy into the root instead of the branches that can’t produce at that stage. This makes the tree strong and long lived.
The first three years you prune for shape so that the weight of the fruit won’t break the branches when it is allowed to bare. In the third year you prune to develop your your fruit spurs. Dead wood is removed as needed but suckers only at certain times of the year so as not to trigger multiplying them.
Pruning a damaged, sick, and neglected tree into recovery is a long process that requires patients and skill and commitment to the tree.
Grafting is different yet. I wish I had time to thoroughly expound on this but I wouldn’t get anything else done for months.
Every tree needs certain conditions to thrive. You don’t plant peaces in lowland where they get too much water. It kills them. Apples however love sufficient water.
The funny thing is that I couldn’t tell you that peaces or apples know they are peaces or apples. They just sit there in the soil you put them in, submit themselves to your seeming torcher, and then produce their fruit naturally and effortlessly after the proper time and in it’s proper season.
When all is done well, the beautiful tree makes everyone admire the skill of the owner. That is what Torah does to us.
De. 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it.
6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding IN THE SIGHT OF THE NATIONS, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.
7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for?
8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?
9 Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons’ sons;
We don’t know what fruit we will bare for YHVH. We just know that what He does for us is for our good and the good of ALL.
Oh one more thing. You don’t let the tree produce fruit until it is ready. If something developes you pick it off because it takes the energy away from the formation of a strong tree and produced inferior fruit at best and immature bad fruit at worst.
Isa 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness, that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that He might be glorified.”
You all are so good for my soul. I currently must stay at home with my mother who has dementia and requires full time supervision. I love my profession (also organic ag like Luzette) but mom is my work right now.
Sorry guy’s I’m keyboard dependent and keep hitting a key that submits before I’m ready.
My last comment is on
“”Is there time to turn the tide? Perhaps not. James Black’s work suggests we have passed the point of recovery. But there is time today to recover our personal alignment. We can stop our own endorsement of the disparity. We can do justice today. That might be all we can do but God will use it for His good.””
The other thing I want to point out is that trees must be replaced after their fruitfulness has peaked. You do that years ahead. If you have an orchard you are constantly developing new trees. In the process of time you have good years and bad years. Then there are the amazingly fruitful years and the totally fruitless years. There are seasons of drought and bareness and seasons of recovery. My point is we don’t know! Our job is to submit to Our creator in our place in His garden. Keep Torah in season and out.
Shalom
Darn spell check! I prune peaches not peaces.
Luzette,
I appreciate what you have to say about the fertilizer. So true! It caused me to remember one of my favorite passages along those lines. Although, this one is about HUMILITY, it still is in line with the thoughts expressed today.
“Basic humility is the attitude of one who stands constantly under the judgment of God. It is the attitude of one who is like the soil. Humility comes from the Latin word ‘humus,’ (fertile ground). The fertile ground is there, unnoticed, taken for granted, always there to be trodden upon. It is silent, inconspicuous, dark and yet it is always ready to receive any seed, ready to give it substance and life. The more lowly, the more fruitful, because it becomes really fertile when it accepts all the refuse of the earth. It is so low that nothing can soil it, abase it, humiliate it; it has accepted the last place and cannot go any lower. In that position nothing can shatter the soul’s serenity, its peace and joy.” – From ‘Living Prayer’ by Anthony Bloom
I actually know people whose lives could be described by this passage. When I am around them, I am convicted of my own selfishness, because I realize I do not want to be inconvenienced by every single need I see. They have little here on earth, but their eternal reward is earning interest.
Luzette, I must ask you, (–“recall John 6:21 “Then they were willing to take him into the boat, and INSTANTLY the boat reached the land were they were heading for”(CJB) When in a storm, I pray for this miracle to happen in my life.–“) I need some identification here. I need some clarity. I need some focus. Can you help me?? Who is “they?” and Who is “Him?” They were willing to take “Him” into the boat. Oh, ahmein! amen! and yes!- may it be so.
It is (according to The Scriptures) the LORD!. It is Messiah YaMashiach. It is Jesus (who is the) Christ (the Anointed ONE).
“Hear” this man’s confession. “Hear” the passionate heartbeat of this Jew. His name was Peter and here are his words (which, praise G-d, are my words also!)- “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living G-d!).” – Could G-d become a man? Did holy G-d become flesh and live among us? Is Y’shua the union of two houses? People despised and avoided Him, a man of pains, well acquainted with illness. Like someone from whom people turn their faces, He was despised; we did not value Him. In fact, it was our diseases He bore, our pains from which He suffered; yet we regarded Him as punished, stricken and afflicted by God. But He was wounded because of our crimes, crushed because of our sins; the disciplining that makes us whole fell on Him, and by his bruises we are healed. 6 We all, like sheep, went astray; we turned, each one, to his own way; yet ADONAI laid on Him the guilt of all of us.
Yes, let us ask questions. Many questions. Who is this man? -When the talmudim saw it, they marveled, saying, “How did the fig tree wither at once?” “What manner of man is this who heals the sick, raises the dead, quiets the wind and changes the water to wine?” {cf, Matt 8:27} Good questions. I’d like some answers to these same questions. Who is this man? – Oh, and then there is the small matter of the resurrection from the dead. Just because someone can die and then three days later conquer the grave, does this make him “special”?
One man’s trash is another man’s treasure and one man’s treasure is another man’s trash. I’m asking: do you want to “treasure” this man? Does He hold “worth” or “value” to you? Or would you reject and despise Him and throw Him into the dustbin of history? “He came unto His own and His own received Him not.” Y’shua- the (now) living, resurrected Son of G-d and G-d the Son is welcome in my house. Yes, there will be those who reject Him. There are those who run from the Truth. There are those who reject His Torah, and there are those who hide from the Light. I welcome Him. I receive Him. Gladly, fully, freely. This man died for me. This G-d/man, this perfect, Sacrificial Lamb will be worshiped at my house today, for He is the Christ, the living Son of G-d.
Without Him I could do nothing,
Without Him I’d surely fail;
Without Him I would be drifting,
Like a ship without a sail.
I am broken by this word today. Tho I am not a wealthy woman by the world’s standards I still have plenty and yet complain. I am convicted and saddened by the state of my retched heart. Thank you, Holy Spirit, for purifying us through the fire and water, through Your Holy Word.
A powerful message today for our country and leaders. Our only hope is to throw the bums out in DC and the state houses while kneeling on our knees before God.
Thank you Carl,powerful words. Amen and Amen!
Good Word for today, no doubt. Thank you,Skip.
Luzette, your reference to
( don’t know how many of you know how it feels in a riat, or strike or toi-toi of thousands of people singing, marching and dancing on the same song of which the words are very close to : ” we deserve jobs,housing, justice, education……”, but we serve the gods of our forefathers, pray to waterspirits and be in the songoma( witch doctor),
but I would submit that we here in the USA have many of those same marches going on now. We here are involved in the same spirit of anti-Christ but consider ourselves “one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all” ???
It appears in the US we have subjectively removed YHWH and “replaced” Him with a god who has a different set of laws, laws more palatable and easy to live by. I am somewhat put out by one of the most misused/misunderstood texts in the western Christian church:
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments; and his commandments are not grievous. 1John 5:3
This has been translated and reduced to only 2 commandments , and to the subjective display of love is the only thing that matters , and finally, all roads lead to God. I would submit that we cannot get past the first commandment in order to obey the second, which is strongly connected to all of them!
“I pray that one day they will sing, march and dance to YHWH.” Amen Amen Amen
“But there is time today to recover our personal alignment. We can stop our own endorsement of the disparity. We can do justice today.”
“If I may also use Leonardo de Caprio’s quote in Blood Diamond: “God has left Africa long ago”, I must say that most of the time, looking at everything (Municipalities,hospitals, schools) going to ruins, that I sometimes feel the same.”
First let me say that I agree whole-heartedly with the first statement above.
To Luzette’s point, I too was struck by Leonardo de Caprio’s quote in Blood Diamond: “God has left Africa long ago”, but a much different thought came to mind.
My question was why in the world was God doing this to the innocent women and children, or at least allowing it to happen.
What is the meaning of it?
Why is God allowing the great ecology of the earth to be plundered by ignorant, vicious people.
One ape is worth more than all of the corrupt men in power put together.
Torah links wealth and poverty with covenant faithfulness, not the actions of the rich, who, if they remain faithless, will lose all. Not sure? Read Torah and the Prophets.
Are you implying that folks are starving to death because they lack covenant faithfulness?
Folks who are starving to death and have never heard of the covenant?
Torah says man is made in YHWH’s image. What does that mean? Does that mean folk can put aside that image? Or does it burn deep within them, so that it can be said they “suppress” or “hold down” the truth about their Creator?
Interestingly, Ian, the Hebrew understanding is that God makes us in His image, but that we can re-fashion ourselves after any idol. Therefor, if we are not being obedient to God – His will; His Torah – then we are no longer made after His image.
So man can escape God’s image completely?
Does Torah, or its explanation in the Prophets and Writings, confirm this Hebrew understanding?
Hi Ian – sorry for the delay… car problems to address. First of all: this is a key Hebrew principle and it crops up in so many teachings/writings that it would be hard to isolate one and not discredit others.
You are very analytical, aren’t you? Remember, Hebrew thought doesn’t work like that. Let me make a few comments that may help you think about this as a Hebrew (process) and not a Greek (conclusion). First, all though mankind is made “in the image of God” this statement MUST be able to stand without contravening the commandment that NOTHING can be made that is an image of God. The problem comes when we think of God anthropomorphically, and shape God according to our senses. But that’s what ‘image’ suggests to us.
However, in Hebrew, the concept is more like a computer programme or simulation(please don’t take this too rigidly… I did say “more like” – hmmm, this is going to get very Greek, I fear! That’s why Hebrew concepts are debated, not explained!). So, we are created to have the same values as God and the same drives and triggers. If we put our selves first, or make changes to the value system, or refuse to respond to situations like those that Skip has outlined (here and in other posts) then the data does not match the model (arithmetic).
I hope this helps.
“NOTHING can be made that is an image of God”
Hi Ian & Tara,
Just some thoughts regarding image of God.
“Image of God” at the linguistic level is just a set of “signifiers.”
Letters that comprise words that make sounds that point to a “signified” (concept).
The concept is not a thing that is made it is just an idea.
Isn’t the “image of God” an idea?
This image of God that is man is dualistic (masculine and feminine).
But God is not dualistic.
“…the best book (in your opinion) that explains the Hebrew/Greek distinctions… ”
Hi Ian,
A clear, concise, explanation can be found in Spriritual Restoration, by Dr Moen.
I tend to prefer clear, simple, explanations, because they are more useful.
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”
John 1:1 Is easy to understand and it is a pretty important point.
So man can escape God’s image completely?
Does Torah, or its explanation in the Prophets and Writings, confirm this Hebrew understanding?
Hi Ian,
I would agree with Ian and Tara that we are free to re-fashion ourselves after any idol.
Did you ever see the punk rock star Billy Idol or listen to his song, Flesh for Fantasy?
I tended to see Billy as a sort of a satire on himself and the folks in his audience.
In any case, it seems like we have two choices in the Torah.
The image of God or an idol of Billy.
But the primary question has still not been addressed: What does it mean “made in God’s image”?
Ian – the computer analogy is very creative. I would be interested to know how this analogy is derived from the text of Scripture?
And you’re right, I’m terribly analytical, that’s how I make my living. Perhaps you could direct me to the best book (in your opinion) that explains the Hebrew/Greek distinctions you describe.
“…the best book (in your opinion) that explains the Hebrew/Greek distinctions…
I know that this won’t satisfy your mind(!), but information (neatly packaged in a book) will not really explain the distinction – I would say that the differences have to be experienced (primarily because the Hebrew/eastern way is based on ‘action’ – it is about “how you do what you do” – not what is achieved. e.g. God admires our sincere intentions as much, and sometimes more, than He admires what we actually do).
We have the ‘Greek method’ sorted… but we would need to live (or, at least, react) like a Jew in order to fully appreciate their mindset. Skip’s web-site is really good for getting us to think in that mindset – but you have to read Skip’s teaching with the western mindset disengaged – that ‘mind’ that is always trying to jump to the end of the story to see what the point is, or what is achieved. Yes, this site is the best place to learn about the distinctions… but we can only appreciate them to any real degree when we start to live them.
“…derived from the text of Scripture…” Please don’t take this negatively, but the insistence by Christians that everything has to be based in (or proven by) Scripture is the ultimate proof of the Greek mindset. We have found that asking a Jew to prove their understanding from Scripture is the quickest way to have the conversation terminated. The topic we are discussing “what does it mean to be formed in the image of God” needs to be pondered and debated with like-minded people – you can’t short circuit the process by asking where you can find the answer! In our earlier post, we said that we would “…make a few comments that may help you think…” That is the Hebrew way – even if it takes a life-time!
Anyway, after we posted – I was thinking of a clarification of how to think of being “made in the image”. Try this for size: we tend to think that, because (for example) God is love, that to be made in God’s image means that we, too, at our essence “are love” – and (if we remember and make ourselves aware of that) we go into the daily routine looking for opportunities where we can decide whether we will manifest that love or not. All of that means next to nothing as far as the Hebrew understanding – they would say that we are only made in God’s image once we begin manifesting that love… so they do things; they take action…continually. Acts Ch2 describes the status quo for Hebrew living, not a new way of living.
We’ve a busy week again this week, so may be slow in responding to any comments.
Ian —
I appreciate your answer.
But maybe you could suggest the best book (in your opinion) that explains the Greek mindset as you describe it.
Thanks.
Hi Ian – It’s a few years since I had to reference books on that topic, so give me a few days and I’ll think of a couple for you. When I was studying this (from a theatre perspective, not religion) my mind makes me think that I learned everything from one book (!) and that was John Houston Finlay’s “Four Stages of Greek Thought”. I imagine that it’s out of print now, but you may find a library that has a copy. I’m sure that when Skip is back on-line that he will be able to suggest some more recent books. I promise I will think of one or two more for you.
‘John Houston Finlay’s “Four Stages of Greek Thought””
Hi Ian and Tara,
WoW
That is the last book that would have come to my mind 🙂
Published the year I graduated from High School, 1966, and a classic in its field.
That kind of thinking always had a centrifugal effect on my thinking.
Relative to the Hebrew worldview.
I guess the mind-boggling thing is how these two things come together.
Hebrew and Greek worldviews.
Ian
Thanks for the book tip. I’ll try to find it. You appear to be saying that to arrive at, or want, a conclusion, is Greek, while not having a conclusion just a process, is Hebrew.
Now I’m confused. In one post above you say “without contravening the commandment that NOTHING can be made that is an image of God.”
Is this statement a “conclusion” (Greek) or a “process” (Hebrew)? If it’s a conclusion, we have an answer to at least one issue form the Scripture. If it’s a process, I guess we have to wait for the process to end before we have a conclusion.
Or maybe, in Hegelian fashion, there is no conclusion.
In fact, to conclude “there is no conclusion” is a non sequitur, for the statement merely contradicts itself and is therefore a nonsense. 🙂
Hi Michael
I used to direct a lot of Shakespearean theatre and found that Finlay helped me to appreciate some of the motivations/thought patterns that shaped both the darker side of the plot and the comedy (which many people think must only be funny to people from that era!)
Hi Ian
Now, you’re thinking Hebrew! And debating!! “Is this statement a “conclusion” (Greek) or a “process” (Hebrew)?” Do you remember the “vessel of gold, vessel of silver and vessel of clay”? Same thought pattern applies…
Give me a day or two and I’ll get back to you with those book recommendations. I won’t be visiting the site until then (to stop me from getting distracted from my necessary work!)
Ian,
glad you mentioned the vessels of gold silver clay. I sent this comment to a friend when Skip’s post appeared:
Skip actually has an interesting comment on this in today’s post: He says:
The Greek says, “There are three pots, one of silver, one of gold, one
of clay.” The Hebrew says, “There is a vessel of gold, a vessel of
silver and a vessel of clay. If you take away the gold, silver and clay,
there is no vessel left called a pot.” In the Greek world, attributes
are attached to the supposed ideal reality. In the Hebrew world, the
only reality is the functional reality. There is no ideal “pot” to which
gold or silver or clay is attached.”
Now if I understand him, I could paraphrase his comment something like this.
There’s a motor vehicle. It’s functionality is transport.
the Greek says: There’s a motor Vehicle
The Hebrew says: There’s transport.
Take the engine out, and then what do you have:
The Greek Says: There’s a motor vehicle
The Hebrew says: There’s nothing because there’s no transport.
But, you ask the Hebrew, what’s that hunk of metal there?
The Hebrew will respond: “That’s junk metal. Don’t throw it away. It’s
worth heaps at the scrap yard.”
But . . . .
An Australian, influenced by Greek thinking since he comes from the
Greek west would say:
There’s a motor vehicle, and its use is transport.
Take the engine out, what will the Australian say?
“Put the engine back, you blankety-blank idiot. Don’t you know the motor
vehicle can’t work without it?”
But all this is question begging: From where do we get our ideas about Hebrew ways of thinking? From Scripture itself, or are they obtained externally, then we use them as an hermeneutical basis for reading the Scriptures?
“There is no ideal “pot” to which gold or silver or clay is attached.”
Hi Ian,
Your point is well taken.
However it seems to me the rabbis interpret the Torah using Greek methodology.
Eg, it seems to me that the “Ten Sefirot of Nothingness” is an ideal construct (Greek).
An the Talmud too.
Ian (Hodge), an excellent book that Skip has mentioned in a couple of his lectures is “Hebrew Thought Compared With Greek”, Thorlief Boman, available in paperback through Amazon.com (and not expensive either). Not light reading – it will take some wading through – but it is quite thorough.
How do we come to an understanding of Hebrew thought? One way is through reading things like the Mishnah – a collection of rabbinic commentary, debates and discussions collected over the centuries. Other Hebrew/Jewish writings can also be useful, not from the point of view of forming doctrines or practice (unless they agree with scripture) but to gain an understanding of the development of Hebrew thought.
Another key difference between Hebrew and Greek thought that was pointed out to me the other day by a friend (with whom I have had several interesting and very deep discussions), is that the Greek mind is all about “answers”. Gaining knowledge in order to have the right answers is considered a very noble pursuit. The wisest is the one who has the most knowledge and can give the most “correct” answers.
In Hebrew culture, one’s wisdom is revealed not by one’s answers, but by the questions one asks. It is a very “Hebrew” thing to answer a question with another question that can reveal the heart of the original inquirer. There are examples of this in the gospel accounts where men were amazed not by the answers Yeshua gave, but by the questions He asked.
“However it seems to me the rabbis interpret the Torah using Greek methodology.”
Michael,
Making conclusions is an “inescapable concept.” It is one of the ways we are “made in the image of God. While there is a legitimate place for Greek and Hebrew categorizations, maybe there is a different issue. For example, “All those who hate Me, love death” (Prov. 8:36).”
What can be concluded from this statement? That we can’t really know what it means, and that we have to have a “process” that determines a conclusion somewhere in the future? That’s a conclusion in itself, and therefore a no sequitur, a contradiction within itself, a nonsense.
It could also be possible that to be “made in the image of God” allows Him to communicate in a certain way suitable to our “nature”, and that we are expected to respond appropriately because we “know” these words are true. It is this “image” that allows true communication between Creator and mankind, and between mankind. Without this presupposition you cannot get off the ground with a solution to the “problem” of epistemology.
In other words, the Rabbis interpret Scripture not with Greek methodology but with the mind with which they were created. This does not mean all their conclusions are always correct, but it at least gets us past an epistemological impasse.
Rodney
Sorry to be so long in responding. Health and travel issues have slowed me down.
Bowman’s ides also have a response in James Barr’s “The Semantics of Biblical Language”.
This whole issue requires a biblical answer to the question of epistemology.
Rodney,
You indicate that understanding the Hebrew mind is prior to reading the Scriptures, such as reading Mishnah. Yet, the Tanakh is quite clear: “The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge”, an idea expressed in Sha’ul’s writings in relation to Christ: In Him are all the foundations of knowledge, etc.
So, if we say that true knowledge in anything is possible without the aid of Scripture, we have allowed the mind of man to determine truth, unaided by divine revelation. This makes man the ultimate determiner of what is true and what is false, the Tempter’s lie of Gen. 3:5.
This is the fundamental question of epistemology. In other words, you cannot tell if Mishnah is true unless you already have the truth of Scripture at hand.
I’ve also heard it said that Adam was created “in the image of God” but that, after he fell, “he brought forth a son in his own image i.e. in the image of fallen Adam, implying that until our relationship with our creator is restored to its original created order, that we are all in fact born in the image of the fallen Adam, hence our propensity for rebellion against the teaching and instructions of God and towards self-gratification (which, in itself, can become idolatry when “I” becomes number one and everyone else – including God – is a distant second or worse).
Thanks Skip for another great reminder of what we need to be doing as followers of Yeshua.
Perhaps this (slightly out of context) line from Shaw Shank Redemption should apply to all of us…Lets “get busy living or get busy dying…” a la Yeshua style, not Morgan Freeman’s 🙂
On Skip’s Today’s Word: I wrote others this week-end on Ed and me trying to help get justice in the courts for a really needy 26 year old mother with six children under eight years of age, she divorced her husband ,who has now been arraigned for three counts of arson, one- their own home. —This is the second family we have taken on to help in our Courts in the past few years, each taking much time, hard work of all kinds, and all the help that two older people with minimun resources are able to give. It has truly been humbling to us, and I write this because of the timing of this DD. We had never previously been involved in the Courts system, except two times that the Athletic Dept. where Ed headed the University Program, had two charges brought against the U. not him per se–but in those there were U. lawyers, and he only gave depositions.–
I had written back in July to others, about us being involved with helping people trying to get Justice in the Courts, and I had studied the scriptures, and found what I thought was good for those situations, in Luke 18: 1-8. I have sent it to several people that have been put in our e-mail paths asking for prayers for others being in the court systems. Some or for divorces that according to scriptures are allowed. ( many Christians have no idea what scriptures say on these things! I will let you study that out)—- In Luke 18:1-18, the NIV Footnotes say some worthwhile things. In order to shorten this, I will not write the verses, but give paraphrase of the Study Notes: “The Parable of the Persistent Widow”-Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up.—–v.2: a judge unconcerned about the needs of others or about their opinion of him. –V.3: a widow, particularly helpless and vulnerable because she had no family to uphold her case, only justice, and her own persistence were in her favor. –v.7: if an unjust judge who feels no constraint of right or wrong is compelled by persistence to deal justly with a helpless individual, how much more will God answer prayer! ( I wrote in the names of the people here that we were working with, and said, ” Yea, thank you Lord, let’s see JUSTICE for:— ( names here)–v.7b. “keep putting them off”– God will not delay his support of the chosen ones when they are right. He is not like unjust judge, who had to be badgered until he wearied and gave in”—- To all who read these verses, let us hold fast for these truths to be true for God’s Chosen Ones-(ALL — who choose to be) Let each of us repent of known sins, daily, and be in right standing with God. His Word says we are are the righteousness of God: literally in right standing with God through Jesus. Oh my dear friends let us deny ourselves, spend much time in prayer, and then work, help in every way possible those who God shows us to help. We can not help everyone, but if we are doing all of the above, God will show us who to help. I plan to write below, of our precious little ones given to us to help, what a joy, we had never heard of them or seen them until the past few weeks.—- Praise His Many Holy Names! LB ( Ed, too)
Hello, LaVaye again– back to the mother with six children under 8 years, my young neighbor introduced us to her via a simple conversation as we sat in the golf cart late out on a ride out to the course for Ed to hit a few balls– trying to get out of the house because of the very hot, dry summer we had, I went with him. We had just “lost” our military family to a divorce, we had them five years here, and had seen them through two miscarriages, him two partial tours of Iraq–injuries, a court martial, and the birth of a live baby. With all the help we could give, prayers of intercession of intensity over all of the above, he was eventually exonerated from the charges of court martial. We sincerely believed that all of the prayers we had asked for them, and our own was the reason. — But within six weeks, he- who said he was a Christian, asked her for a divorce–the third one he had gotten from her. She walked with Godliness, and according to the Full Council of the Lord, as far as anyone could determine!— This time with a RET. Military Christian Chaplin here, & his wife–knowledgeable of the case, we all counciled her to leave him, and counter the divorce. Ed and I walked the whole way with her, it was a nighmare for us. The children were here in our home often the five years, and they were like our great-grandchildren to us. We were all devastated. The father’s behavior since they left in July, is almost even worst! She moved to her home in another state. He was able to deceive once again the military, and got within 45 min. of her, and continues to make her life miserable. The only good part of it that we can see, is that she has recognized he had always treated her as a slave, and is dealing with that through God’s Word, accepting that is who he is, she is in a good church, in school, and has not gone back to him as she did twice before, although he has pleaded for her to do that. He can not handle his indebtness of outrageous living, and pay child support, too.—– —
Well this military family had only been gone from the little house a block from us for about two weeks, when we were given the second family–this mother with six children–two had been given custody to the father, before he was charged with arson. So she has been driving from Central TX every three weeks to AZ, for court appearance dates to see those two children for about two hours per visit. They came under the care of Child Protective Services, after the three year old ended up in ER with broken ribs. The grandmother who was keeping the two children for the father who at various times was in jail before bond was made, etc., had previous records of child abuse, and yet the court recently let them back in her son’s care, and her home. —-Talk about injustice!—- But the last drive to AZ the young mother called us in the Court that she could bring them to TX for three weeks. There was a lot of shouting over that. A few days later, we got to have them come to our house, the weather was perfect, and we pulled out the rocky horse, the little trampoline, the swing, the volley ball. Ed and I and the young mother all played with the children. I took pictures of them ( she had not any of them in months) and got them developed and in a booklet, I made them each fleece fabric throws with sweet little animal prints. Then we invited the grandmother and uncle, that we had not met, but lived in the area, and the mother over. It was a time of joy, and a time of tears, too.
Please, will everyone who reads this ask the Lord to give this young mother justice, and let her have those two little girls in full custody, too. She is an excellent mother. Oh how, we must all do what we can to help those who are truly needy, and have no voice. She has so readily accepted the prayers that I pray for her, usually on the phone. She can seldom do anything else except get the kids to school, and care for the others, & with going back and forth to AZ without spending the nights anywhere, but driving straight through and back home, and then try to work with her brother in Handy Work Jobs, while her mother keeps the ones not in school. She has no child support from the husband at all!—— Thanks for reading this, and for your prayers.— LaVaye & Ed, too. ( no retirement for those in the Lord! Recall we are 81 and 77 years old, and we are thankful to the “Great I AM”, for the ability to still work!)
one’s wisdom is revealed not by one’s answers, but by the questions one asks.
Rodney,
Isn’t that called the Socratic method ? 🙂