Down The Rabbit Hole

“I will never desert you, nor will I ever forsake you.”  Hebrews 13:5  NASB

Forsake – This verse in Hebrews is really a modified quotation from a verse in Deuteronomy 31:6.

The passage in Deuteronomy reads eemach lo yarpeka velo ya’azveka (He will not fail you, nor forsake you).  The promise is very old.  It was given to all those who were to enter the Land.  It was given to all those who would enter the Land, represented in the ones who actually crossed the Jordan.  It was given to all who would become part of Israel.  Therefore, it is given to us.

The Hebrew word for “forsake” is ‘azav‘Azav has a strange etymology.  It is derived from two roots, one which means “to leave, to abandon, to forsake” (cf. Genesis 44:22 and Genesis 2:24), and another which means “to restore or repair” (Nehemiah 3:8).  In this first meaning, ‘azav can be quite a condemnation.  Israel forsakes YHWH, a theme that occurs over and over in Scripture.  But how can the same word also mean “to repair or restore”?  Let’s consider the pictograph.  Ayin-Zayin-Bet paints the scene “to experience being cut off from the house.”  ‘azav means loss of family, security and covenant.  To forsake is to be put at ultimate risk.  But this has a double edge.  A man must cut himself off from prior familial responsibilities and prior household safety when he attaches himself to his wife, his ‘ezer kenegdo.  This act of forsaking establishes a new place of security, of covenant commitment.  While it cuts one tie, it cements another.  It is abandoning and restoring at one and the same time.  So the Tanakh tells us that forsaking idolatry is, at the same time, restoring covenant with YHWH.

The translation of this promise into Greek yields further insight.  The Greek word is a combination of three separate words:  en meaning “a place,” kata meaning “down” – for emphasis – and leipo meaning “to leave behind.”  Therefore, we get egkataleipo – left down in a place.  The full sense is “to abandon by leaving behind in some place.”  Now we can see that the verse really emphasizes the same idea twice because deserting and forsaking both mean abandoning in some place.  God is very clear about this.  He wants us to see how important His promise is so He doubles it up.  He will never, ever quit on us, leave us down in the dumps, abandon us to some awful place.  He is not going away, no matter what we might feel.  From the time of Moses to the end of the New Testament, the promise is the same – you can count on Me!  I am with you!

This word is used by Yeshua on the cross.  “Why have you forsaken me?”  But Yeshua’s declaration points us toward a psalm of vindication, not a statement of abandonment.  If God promises never to leave His people, why do we think He left His Son?  The antonym helps us see the strength of this promise.  The opposite of “forsake” is “to hold fast, to seize and retain” (in the Greek – krateo).  God is just not going to let go.  Ever!

Topical Index: egkataleipo, ‘azav, forsake, abandon, cut off, Deuteronomy 31:6, Hebrews 13:5

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Michael

“God is just not going to let go. Ever!”

Hi Skip,

I understand but tend to think that Yeshua on the cross probably felt just like David

Like a Doe in the Morning with the lions wandering around a little too close for comfort 🙂

Psalm 22

Psalm 22[a]
For the director of music. To the tune of “The Doe of the Morning.” A psalm of David.
1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?
Why are you so far from saving me,
so far from my cries of anguish?
2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer,
by night, but I find no rest.[b]

3 Yet you are enthroned as the Holy One;
you are the one Israel praises.[c]
4 In you our ancestors put their trust;
they trusted and you delivered them.
5 To you they cried out and were saved;
in you they trusted and were not put to shame.

6 But I am a worm and not a man,
scorned by everyone, despised by the people.
7 All who see me mock me;
they hurl insults, shaking their heads.
8 “He trusts in the LORD,” they say,
“let the LORD rescue him.
Let him deliver him,
since he delights in him.”

9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.

11 Do not be far from me,
for trouble is near
and there is no one to help.

12 Many bulls surround me;
strong bulls of Bashan encircle me.
13 Roaring lions that tear their prey
open their mouths wide against me.
14 I am poured out like water,
and all my bones are out of joint.
My heart has turned to wax;
it has melted within me.
15 My mouth[d] is dried up like a potsherd,
and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth;
you lay me in the dust of death.

16 Dogs surround me,
a pack of villains encircles me;
they pierce[e] my hands and my feet.
17 All my bones are on display;
people stare and gloat over me.
18 They divide my clothes among them
and cast lots for my garment.

19 But you, LORD, do not be far from me.
You are my strength; come quickly to help me.
20 Deliver me from the sword,
my precious life from the power of the dogs.
21 Rescue me from the mouth of the lions;
save me from the horns of the wild oxen.

22 I will declare your name to my people;
in the assembly I will praise you.
23 You who fear the LORD, praise him!
All you descendants of Jacob, honor him!
Revere him, all you descendants of Israel!
24 For he has not despised or scorned
the suffering of the afflicted one;
he has not hidden his face from him
but has listened to his cry for help.

25 From you comes the theme of my praise in the great assembly;
before those who fear you[f] I will fulfill my vows.
26 The poor will eat and be satisfied;
those who seek the LORD will praise him—
may your hearts live forever!

27 All the ends of the earth
will remember and turn to the LORD,
and all the families of the nations
will bow down before him,
28 for dominion belongs to the LORD
and he rules over the nations.

29 All the rich of the earth will feast and worship;
all who go down to the dust will kneel before him—
those who cannot keep themselves alive.
30 Posterity will serve him;
future generations will be told about the Lord.
31 They will proclaim his righteousness,
declaring to a people yet unborn:
He has done it!

Michael

Take a look at my previous writing about Psalm 22. YOU might get a different idea.

Hi Skip,

I don’t recall disagreeing with you, and I have read a lot of your work

But in the beginning (of Matt) Yeshua is defined as a descendant of the Messiah King David

And at the end (of Matt) and close to death Yeshua refers to the Messiah King David (Psalm 22)

So I don’t think it is unreasonable to think Yeshua felt like a doe in the morning amidst the Lions

🙂

Michael

Hi Skip,

Which book or link?

Thanks, Mike

Michael

“Maybe, but if you read what I wrote about Psalm 22, you might look at “doe in the morning” completely differently, and in that new context see the whole psalm differently.”

Hi Skip,

I remember reading that series and never found anything that didn’t make sense to me

At the same time I think that Yeshua was a man and the doe was a divine image

But, for me, having been hung up on a cross with nails for some time

I think even the most Godly of men might have felt forsaken for a second or two

Michael

“Yeshua pushes the entire plot forward as quickly as possible. That doesn’t appear to be the actions of a man who might feel abandoned.”

Hmmm

Just for fun I might argue that a man could push the entire plot forward

And still feel somewhat abandoned by God for a second or two

Of course Yeshua is a rather complicated character in this passage

Because, in my view, YesHua is both “identical” to and different than the following characters:

– Messiah ben David
– Doe in the Morning
– Messiah ben Joseph
– Descendant of aDaM

And, of course, at One with YHWH Himself

It just might be thE case, that the key to this enigma can be found

In a Movie called the Departed

Where in the one of the opening scenes the arch criminal played by Jack NicholSon

Tells the innocent young boy regarding the essence of his his own character

Having been an evil man but, as a boy, having been very good at school

With his characteristic grin:

“It’s what they call “paradox”

AKA the “4th P”

Ian Hodge

The words you quote are preceded by two issues: love of money and contentment. Be free of the former, and make sure you have the latter. Why? Because God has said he will never leave us nor forsake us.

Yet . . . believers of all persuasions get major illnesses, they lose their wealth in a business that God was supposed to bless, and they die in war.

So what doeshe mean when he says, “I will never leave you nor forsake you”?

David Salyer

In the past, I have taught that this statement answers the two greatest questions and the two greatest needs of every human heart: 1. Is God there? ANS: I will never leave you 2. Does God care? ANS: I will never forsake you. At some point in our lives, we will find ourselves asking these two basic questions.

I find it interesting that of all the things that God created in Genesis 1-2, the one thing that He said was “not good” for man was “alone-ness”. I realize that in context, this had to do with the absence of compatible companionship for the man. But I wonder if it doesn’t speak to something even deeper than just the social need for interaction of humankind. “Not good for man to be alone” sounds like a pretty compelling statement from the Supreme evaluator of all things created, don’t you think? When I think of extreme circumstances in life that challenge our trust in Him and that bring us back to these two ultimate questions, it is this overwhelming feeling of “alone-ness” that predominates the landscape of emotions and threatens the full satisfaction and contentment that we can only experience by first having a relationship with God through His Son, Yeshua. It is in Yeshua that we can confidently say, yes, LORD, I know that you are there (for me) and I know that you will never forsake me…I ponder sometimes the supreme “alone-ness” and alienation that Yeshua must have experienced on the cross so that I might, in Him, never have to experience that level of “alone-ness” again. I cannot even begin to describe for you just what it is that Yeshua means to me as I consider the cost of my salvation (for Him) and the wonder of His grace (toward me).

David Salyer

Skip – appreciate your reply. Very helpful. Random thoughts and honest Questions: What did Yeshua experience while on the cross beyond the obvious physical torture and death? Could he still experience what it was like to be all alone (alienated/separated as sin-guilt bearer but not as a sinner) without actually ever being separated from the Father’s presence or the Father’s love (e.g. like Job felt while God was silent)? Would that not be an honest expression of His humanity without “sinning” (e.g. like Job, still being obedient to God’s will and never impugning God or God’s will in the matter)? And as a precursor to the cross, did Yeshua experience emotional agony in the Garden of Gethsemane while praying “alone” (while his closest allies indifferently slept) about that “cup” and, if so, what was in that “cup” exactly that seemed to cause such agony for the Lord? Stated another way: Was there any time, while Yeshua was on the cross, that Yeshua experienced some level of “separation” (without using the word “forsaken” or abandoned in its classic sin sense) from the Father? (Not the Father’s presence since as you say, and I agree, there is nowhere where God cannot be and it would be difficult to conceive of an abandonment of the Father’s presence or care for the Son during this time that Yeshua was on the cross). Did Yeshua experience, for example, the justice and wrath of the Father which I deserved and would that not “feel” like being forsaken even though the truth of the matter was that He Himself was not? Trying to get my hands around just some of your comments in your follow up recognizing that the statement by the Savior about being forsaken parallels Psalm 22 and what your view is about the context of that passage.

Gabe

I have always been taught, and thought, that Yeshua “died of a broken heart”. Since Yeshua took on the sins of humanity, God could not fellowship with him on the cross (since sin separates), and so Yeshua, in feeling that separation could not see past his death and to the resurrection. So he had to take by faith that He would be resurrected by the father. Or something like that.

But then I always wondered:

1. He often predicted His own death (to fulfill all things), why would he ask for the cup to be passed?

2. Why would Yeshua say over and over that He was going to be killed and live again, and then maybe doubt it later. (Usually, people just explain this as evidence of Jesus’ humanity).

3. How come Hebrews 12:2 says that he “despised the shame” – meaning he ‘regarded as unworthy of one’s interest or concern (despised)’ the shame of the cross.

4. And of course, lastly, why did he quote a Psalm which was actually so hopeful in the ending.

Gabe

Sure, NOW, I think about tracing the origin of the interpretation — but I never questioned it before. I mean, if a ton of pastors said it, and they study the bible more than me,… ect, ect. You know how it goes.

Also, thanks for posting a link to the Psalms 22 posts, I looked for them earlier but didn’t go back far enough. It’s amazing how lazy I can be on the internet.

carl roberts

“To wit, (to know) that G-d was in the Messiah, reconciling the world unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.” (I Corinthians 5:19)

Yeshua paid our sin debt in full. Tetalesti: paid in full. – Now, I’ll be the first to admit I don’t understand all that I know, but somehow/someway He being infinite suffered in a finite time what I being finite would suffer in an infinity time. I said all that to say- He paid my sin debt- and not only mine but the sins of all the world and for all time. From Adam to the last man on earth -He paid a debt I owed yet could not pay and paid for it with the price of His own blood- the blood of the Perfect Passover Lamb. The Lamb of G-d. Slain (hello?) during the Passover. How the Jewish people can miss this- is totally beyond my understanding. Once again..- ~ For G-d made Christ, who never sinned, to be the (peace) offering for our sin, so that we could be made right with G-d through Christ ~ (2 Corinthians 5.21)
If we don’t get a proper view of the propitiating sacrifice of the Son of G-d (and son of man) on Calvary’s cross- then people we are absolutely wasting our time “studying the scriptures..”. The Master Theme of all of the scriptures is “behold the Lamb!” Yes, He came to die. He was Man on a mission and that mission was to die for the sins of all the world. It is the blood of Jesus (who is the) Christ- G-d the Son, that cleanses from all sin. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin! (Hebrews 9.22)
Why was Yeshua born of a virgin? Because He, being a man is unlike any other man who ever lived! Sinless perfection. – Friends, I (too) find no fault in him! Perfect in every way – and without sin. Sinless and Blameless- G-d in human flesh.
Why did He (voluntarily, willingly) choose to die? Please don’t go to thinking it was the nails that held the Son of G-d to the cross-no, no and no!- I was only love- Calvary’s love. He was a Man on a mission and that mission required the Supreme Sacrifice- the very blood of G-d.
Who was this Man? Who was it we crucified on Calvary’s tslav? Do you doubt the His divinity? or His Deity? Have you met or know any other man in human history who has yet defeated Death? did Buddha? did Confucius? did Mohammed? I yet to hear of any other man waking and walking out of a sealed tomb after three days dead.. Friend- did Christ come out of that grave or did He not? (be very careful answering this..) Why? lol!- Because ~if you shall confess with your mouth the LORD Jesus (who is the Christ), and shall believe in your heart that G-d has raised him from the dead, you shall be saved. For with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation ~ (Romans 10.9,10)
How can G-d today make this claim- “I will never forsake you?” Because He has said: ~I will ask the Father to give you another Helper, to be with you always ~ (John 14.16) And who is the Helper-Comforter-Advocate? The Ruach HaKodesh- the Holy Breath of G-d who now resides within every blood-bought believer.
Are the Jews still looking for a Conquering King. lol! Look no further that Yeshua Hamashiach. Victory over death. Victory over the grave. Victory over sin, over self, over satan. Complete and total victory is (and always will be) His. He is now the reigning King of kings and LORD of lords. G-d has given unto Him the Name that is above all names. Friends, -it is written: “in The Name of Yeshua, every knee shall bow, which is in Heaven and in The Earth and which is under The Earth, and every tongue shall confess that Yeshua The Messiah is THE LORD JEHOVAH to the glory of God the Father.”

Alas! and did my Savior bleed,
and did my Sovereign die!
Would He devote that sacred head
for a sinner such as I?

Thy body slain, sweet Jesus, Thine—
And bathed in its own blood—
While the firm mark of wrath divine,
His Soul in anguish stood.

Was it for crimes that I have done,
He groaned upon the tree?
-Amazing pity! Grace unknown!
And love beyond degree!

Well might the sun in darkness hide,
and shut its glories in,
when G-d, the mighty maker, died
for His own creature’s sin.

Thus might I hide my blushing face
while His dear cross appears;
dissolve my heart in thankfulness,
and melt mine eyes to tears.

But drops of tears can ne’er repay
the debt of love I owe.
Here, LORD, I give myself away;
-’tis all that I can do.

Oh come, let us worship and bow down; let us kneel before the LORD, our Maker! (Psalm 95.6)