Into the Fire

And not only this, but we also exult in our tribulations; knowing that tribulation brings about perseverance; and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope; and hope does not disappoint . . .  Romans 5:3-5  NASB

Knowing – When we read this verse in Greek, we get a much clearer picture of Paul’s intent.  Our translation hides the fact that Paul does not expect your appreciation of the role of afflictions to come from studies like this one.  He doesn’t use the Greek word for knowledge that comes from gathering facts or analyzing arguments.  He uses the Greek word for knowing from experience (eidotes from oida).  This verb describes the kind of knowing that comes from direct personal encounter, like the kind of knowing when you say, “My finger hurts.”  You don’t have to consult with the doctor or run any tests to know that you are in pain.  You might not know why you are in pain, but you have an immediate experience of the pain nevertheless.  Paul’s use of oida suggests that the real understanding of affliction comes from being in the fire.  You don’t know what it’s like to experience God’s kisses or training or signs of approval until afflictions are part of your life.

Do you realize that all those efforts and all those prayers intent on keeping afflictions far away from us are really working against us?  The silver-spoon life can never know the heart of God because such a life seeks to avoid the very place where God resides – in the sorrows of men and angels.  You and I can’t know that our afflictions are the seedbed of perseverance, character and hope if we run from troubles as fast as we can.  That’s not the same as saying that we go out and look for troubles.  But it is the same as agreeing with Yeshua that those who love Him will have trouble in this world.  Avoidance is a sign of spiritual immaturity.  Fear is a sign of lack of trust.  The one who knows is the one who has suffered.

You might find it interesting that this verb for knowing is the one used in the phrase “to know God.”  Just as it is inadequate to simply collect data about being afflicted, so it is insufficient to simply have the facts about God.  What is required is direct, immediate, personal experience.  In this case, one doesn’t know anything until the feet touch the flames.

This leaves us with only one question:  Since affliction for saints is inevitable, are you doing everything possible to avoid knowing it, or are you content with the purposes of God no matter how they come?

Topical Index: know, oida, experience, Romans 5:3

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Robin Jeep

Thank you, Skip, for teaching the truth!

Jan Carver

The Burning Heart
A Study in Christian Suffering
http://ellerslie.com/Eric_Ludy_Sermons/Entries/2012/3/11_The_Burning_Heart.html
3.11.2012
Delivered by: Eric Ludy
Christian history has a name for those who follow Jesus with loving and extravagant abandon and don’t fret the oft-dire consequences of giving up everything for the sake of their Beloved. Sacred antiquity knows this renegade blood-bought band of soldiers as the Fellowship of the Burning Heart. This message is dedicated to the Burning Hearts of our modern times. We know you are out there, though often like Elijah, you are feeling like the lone-prophet left alive in this generation. But we exhort you to remember that there are at least 7,000 that have not bent their knee to Baal and who, even today, are overcoming by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and loving not their lives unto the death (Rev 12:11).

Dorothy

I wish I could be more inventive in starting my comments, but I can’t stop saying ‘amen’ on this site!

Amen to “one doesn’t know anything until the feet touch the flame”!
At some point in couselling others, I get around to asking them ‘If you could take a pill to forget all the sorrows that have touched you, would you??’

No one has ever said yes. It tells me volumes about their spiritual condition.

I know, I experience, trials & tribulations actually become sweet because HE comes so very near & shares with me. I wouldn’t give up a single trial, nor wish it away.
Instead, in retrospect, I’ve often marvelled that I cried such bitter tears thru some of them–for I have seen God’s end product–& it has brought rejoicing.

Rebecca

Amen to your amen, Dorothy:) How marvellous are His ways…

Thank you, Skip, for clarifying our definition of “knowing” and reminding us that to avoid affliction would be to avoid His dear Presence.

Michael

“At some point in couselling others, I get around to asking them ‘If you could take a pill to forget all the sorrows that have touched you, would you??

Hmmm

Makes me think of the movie called The Matrix (1999) and the most Memorable quote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9vGMMPM5Lg

Morheus:

“You take the blue pill, the story ends; you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill; you stay in Wonderland and I show you how Deep the rabbit-hole goes.”

Of course, as we all know now, the blue pill corresponds to the Greek worldview

Which corresponds to a form of “unconsciousness,” the cool blue waters of Deep Memory and Death

The womb from which we were all born

But the red pill corresponds to the Hebrew worldview, and the so-called “fire in the belly’ (Hom/Heart)

It’s a game of heat, light, and speed in certain senses; and it is not for the “faint of heart” 🙂

Rabbi Bob Gorelik, who is a friend of Skip’s, talks about these concepts in the “Importance of Hebrew Time and Space”

Of course Time and Space are represented by a Matrix (the Hebrew letter t, th, Tav, (the cross)

Dorothy

I’m no movie viewer, but I sure am interested in more of Rabbi Gorelik & will chase this down. (no pun intended) thanks

Jan Carver

MICHAEL, OF COURSE IT’S NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART – EVEN IF YOU DON’T LIKE THE SONG…

“It’s a game of heat, light, and speed in certain senses; and it is not for the “faint of heart””

Gabe

I appreciate the thoughts today, but most of my misery has been from the internal enemy – my own character deficiencies. Time after time I have thought, “I know that many men would have done better in this situation.” In so many ways I have lived a charmed life,… to the point where it worries me at times (when is the hammer going to drop?!). I have had ‘bad luck’ – but how can I complain of a broken finger around those who have lost limbs (metaphorically speaking)?

Most of my trials have been self-imposed. I shoot myself in the foot and then complain about the limp. I have trouble rejoicing in affliction caused by my own laziness, callousness, and lack of self-control.

CYndee

Thank you, Skip, for the reminder to give thanks IN all circumstances because we do live in a broken world, we have broken hearts, and we suffer from troubles that aren’t always of our own making.

Here’s a song to encourage,”Give Me Faith,” that over 100,000 people have viewed. It has the lyrics in white on a black screen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMVvqI1-tM4&feature=related

Or, if you prefer the ‘live worship’ version (unless you get distracted by seeing others caught up in worship), almost half a million have tuned in here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_Voi3JM8ZA

Jan Carver

AGAIN – I SEE THIS SO CLEARLY SOVEREIGNTY… ♥

Dorothy

Brother, I’m not making light of your misery, but maybe this is a page of your ‘real resume’ ? 🙂 🙂
We all have one like it.

Dorothy

well, I put the last comment in the wrong place, I was speaking to Gabe about “brother…” sigh

Gabe

Thank-you Dorothy, I had already forgotten about ‘other’ my resume. And I can say that I’m not exaggerating and I earned everything on that one.

Ilze

Skip,
It so GOOD to not just hear “nice” things that does not help while I am in the Fire.
And again, you could not have “known” these things unless you have “known” the experience.

I am indeed blessed by your sufferings 🙂

Victoria

Thank you! I am NOW receiving Hebrew word study!

truthful Kindness

I am about 2wks behind in reading these, but wanted to mention how i am appreciating these most recent Word Studies. I cant find words, so i will just say thank you again 🙂