The Last Time I Saw Irene
Many of you have followed Irene’s story for more than a year. You know that we stepped in to help this little girl who lives in a homeless camp in South Africa. As a result of a video interview I did with her, the press picked up her story and people all over the world took an interest in Irene. We were all hopeful that her running talent would enable her to escape life in the camps.
Two weeks ago I saw Irene in South Africa. I explained to her that a family in America, part of an Afrikaaner group living near Phoenix, had offered to bring her to the USA, give her tutoring for school, professional training for running and everything she would need to make a success of her life. I had an intense conversation with both of her parents, stressing the uniqueness of this chance and asking them to think about the future for their daughter. I told them they needed to make a decision within the next two weeks. I noticed that Irene seemed more discouraged and quite than I had every seen her. I didn’t know that other factors were already at work undermining everything we were trying to do to help Irene.
Two days ago, after I returned to the USA, I received an email. Irene, age 15, is 5 months pregnant. The father is an 18 year old boy. Everything we were trying to do to help Irene in her athletic career is finished now. She will stay in the camp, have her child and probably fade into the thousands of girls just like her who will never get out of the poverty of these places. More than a year ago I had a very pointed discussion with Irene about exactly this possibility. I told her in no uncertain terms that if she started having sex with boys, she could expect her career to be over. But little girls living in poverty all their lives don’t listen.
We will continue to support Irene as long as there are funds available. The tragedy of her life just got worse and she probably needs help more than ever. But we anticipated that this might happen since she lives in a place where there is little emphasis on moral chastity. The truth is much, much harsher. Life in the camps perpetuates its own victims.
Thank you all for your support and prayers. Now prayer is probably even more important. It breaks my heart to see her follow in the footsteps of so many others who are simply trapped in their environment. I’ll keep track of Irene. God has a big job on His hands in these places.
I am so disappointed, but will continue to pray for this obviously gifted girl. Thank you, Skip, for following up on her for us. May our LORD continue to intervene on her behalf.
Hashem has big hands and will hold her tight. Pray that his plan will bring her close to,him and she will thrive in Him.
May the hesed of the LORD protect and bless her and her child and may they come to know HIM.
Shalom – after spending 10 years visiting the Batey’s in the cane fields of the DR I know the disappointment we (you feel) may God continue to bless you, Skip. Continue Ye…..
Skip,
Thanks for the update. What a wonderful offer from the family in Phoenix. I understand your disappointment and frustration given all you have invested–I’m sorry.
It was not at all clear to me why you feel her career is “over now”, all plans are “finished” and she is destined to live in the camp. Albeit with a several month setback, she is still as talented and she is still the same Irene. There are plenty of stories of single moms who rally and pull their lives together. Moreover, God knew this would occur–the baby is His creation–it is not a bad thing.
I worry that the messages Irene could take away from all this are:
–this baby ruined my chance of getting out (and resent the child or worse, abort the child)
–they only wanted me for my running potential, not for me
–God is not forgiving or a God of second chances
–my chances to be a runner are over (and give up the dream)
I think God’s plan for Irene is bigger than this, or he would not have used you in such a big way. I will be praying that He gives you enough of a glimpse to be encouraged.
This all makes me think of one of my favorite songs–its by JJ Heller
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgGUKWiw7Wk
Bless you brudder.
Skip,
I agree with Paul whole heartedly. As I was reading your post I got more and more heart borken not for Irene per say, but for you. You have over and over agaion taught me that what OUR plans for us or others may not be what God’s plan is for us or others and that we need to TRUST God and HIS plans not ours.
Who says that God’s plan was for Irene to be a track star in America? Who says that God’s plan for Irene was for her to bring attention to what is happening to people in the slums of South Africa? Ours or His? How do we knoe that God is not using Irene to HELP US!
If there is one thing I have learned from you Skip is that God’s plans are the ones we need to focus on and ACCEPT….even if they are different from our own!
Irene needs to know now that God and His people are here for her and her child more than ever. She needs to know that the opportunity for her to come to America is still available if not from the couple in Phenoix from someone else! She does not need to know that God and His people are only there for her if she plays by the rules and does everything right. She needs to know that she is still loved by God and we are here for her.
How do we know that she was just scared about leaving her family, her home and the only life she knows to go to a forgien land with all these HIGH HOLY expectations on her. I have worked with kids like this for years who will intentially sabbatage a good thing because of fear.
This is NOT the time to say, “Well you ruined everything. We will do what we can. Good luck!” It is time to say nothing. It is time to hold her and to DO what He did for us….forgive, love and lift us up.
Skip, I love you and am so blessed by you and I know that God will not let you or us give up on Irene, she is to special to Him.
Bless you my friend and please let me know what I can do to help.
Tim
Tim, I will zero in on your reply, as others have already done so to Paul, and this 80 old year lady wants to jump through my roof, and yell AMEN to your wisdom, and so plainly written insight. Why do we think in terms of success as being a Star of any kind? My Hebrew study that started years before I ever heard of or starting reading Skip, was something that has permeated me and my family for 40 years, and really prior, may I say all the way back to the beginning of my life in 1933, my husband’s in 1929. ONE OF THE GREAT THOUGHTS WE HAVE TRIED TO LIVE BY IS THE HEBREW WORD PROSPERITY IS “TOB”, MEANING GOOD, AS IN CONTRADISTINCTION TO THAT WHICH IS EVIL, ADVERSE.-
One of our grandsons-in-law, just published his first book (he is 29 years old), and is a Praise and Worship leader in St . Louis, the title that I remember is ” Praise and Worship Leaders, You Are Not the Star!:”. I have not had time to get one, but the title is what I love, NONE OF US ARE THE STARS! WHAT A LESSON IN ALL AREAS, SO WHY ARE WE TO DECIDE TO TRY AND MAKE ONE MORE STAR- IRENE.
LET US TO FORGET THE FIVE THOUSAND BOOKS TO BUY AND READ, TRYING TO KEEP UP WITH THE INTELLIGENTSIA. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! EVEN ACCORDING TO ECCLESIATES, THE MAKING OF MANY BOOKS IS A WEARINESS OF THE FLESH, AND IN CASE YOU HAVE NOT NOTICED, ALSO VERY EXPENSIVE! PLUS NOW IN MY OLD AGE MUST BE GOTTEN RID OF. USE THE KNOWLEDGE YOU CAN READ IN YOUR VERSIONS OF THE BIBLE, WITH A STUDY BIBLE, HARPER’S BIBLE STUDY BY MILLER, OR ETC. and stop this bashing of people who do not agree with you on every little item. IT IS DISGRACEFUL FOR GODLY PEOPLE TO WRITE SOME OF THE THINGS I HAVE READ POSTED RECENTLY ON THESE COMMENTS TO PUT OTHERS DOWN.
. GET OUT INTO THE REAL WORLD AND WALK OUT THE BASIC GOSPEL, HELPING WHOMEVER GOD PUTS IN FRONT OF YOU WITH THE INSTRUCTIONS OF YOUR JUDEO-CHRISTIAN TEACHINGS THAT YOU ARE CURRENTLY MOST COMFORTABLE WITH. THEN MOVE ON ONE DAY AT A TIME.
THIS WEEK, I WAS REMINDED AGAIN FROM A FRESHMAN COLLEGE GRANDSON WHO ENTERED ONE OF THE LARGE “GREAT UNIVERSITIES ON THE EAST COAST”, THAT THESE FRESHMAN BROUGHT UP IN WORTHWHILE HOMES, ARE THROWN TO THE WOLVES WHEN THEY ARRIVE. TALK ABOUT THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES, YES, WE HAVE LIVED IN ONE, AND LIVING IN ONE IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT THAN VISITING A FEW DAYS OR WEEKS. I TRULY BELIEVE THAT OUR OWN NATION IS QUICKLY BECOMING VERY SIMILAR. FOR 50 YEARS, I HAVE STATED THAT EVERY AMERICAN SHOULD HAVE TO LIVE IN A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY AT LEAST ONE YEAR. OUR WORLD WOULD HAVE ALREADY CHANGED GREATLY BY NOW IF THAT HAPPENED.
ONE OF OUR GRANDSON HAS BEEN IN EVERY CHURCH SERVICE AVAILABLE TO HIM THE PAST TWO WEEKS AT HIS NEW U.. NO ONE AT ANY OF THE SERVICES EVEN ACKNOWLEDGED THAT THESE 18 YEAR OLDS IN THE DORM NEEDED FRIENDSHIP. WHAT COULD A CARING LIVE STABLE PERSON DO TO HELP THE FRESHMEN IN GOD’S HOUSE ACROSS THE COUNTRY FROM EAST TO WEST? JUST A WARM GREEING AND CONVERSATION WITH THEM ABOUT THEIR HOME COULD BE A START. THE HARVEST IS READY HERE, AND ELSEWHERE IN THE WORLD. LET US NOT MISS THE WORK OF THE HARVEST IN THE ‘SMALL AREAS’.
THANKS IF YOU READ THIS FAR. LaVaye Billings, today, it has been three months since my husband of 61 years , lacking one month, left his earthly body, and entered his spiritual one. If you have walked this path already with a spouse, you understand the trauma, financial cost in medical care, pain, grief, and drainage of so much within you. Today, is truly a day of Labor for me, just trying to take care of the Dollar signs people are yelling for, if we count ( really just me now) ours for Ed was well into the $600,000 range. for ten months of illness. Our insurance was minimum, as ED had always been in Veterans’ the VA, but he did have Medicare, which of course we have paid for through the years.
NOT EVEN DYING IS SIMPLE, OR CHEAP; BUT I STILL CLING TO THE HOPE THAT I HAVE IN CHRIST JESUS, THROUGH THE FATHER GOD, AND IN THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, GIVEN TO US IN HIS COMPLETE ORIGINAL UNALTERED WORD OF GOD, WHICH WE MAY NOT EVER KNOW VERY WELL UNTIL WE SEE HIM FACE TO FACE. L.B.
p.s. sorry I wrote so much, even off the main topic, but I know my schedule and what must be done, and knew that if I stopped, I would never get back to writing, and truly wanted to write and share this with any of you that will read and receive it. In HIS GREAT Love, L.B.
Bless you, dear lady.
LaVaye,
Thank-you for sharing your heart. Everyone says, “Cling to Jesus” during difficult times, but it’s one thing to SAY it, or SUGGEST it to someone else — and quite another to do it. You strike me as someone who is actually clinging.
Please keep in mind that disappointment is natural in this case. Irene is not being disowned, she is NOT being left high and dry, but a disappointed reaction is natural and even biblical. We are not to judge the ultimate end of anyone’s journey — but we can call bad things by their real name.
I was the father of a child at a young age. I was married before I graduated high school. My father disowned me for a time, and many people’s negative comments trickled back to my ears,…”They won’t last 6 months.”, ect. But the bottom line is that everyone WAS RIGHT to be disappointed and pessimistic. This was NOT a good way to start a family. God makes it very clear in His Word — that chastity is NOT something to be taken lightly.
Now, I have three beautiful children and I have been married to that same high school sweetheart for 17 years. I am madly in love with her. I didn’t think it was possible to get fluttery feelings in my stomach after 17 years — but it is! However, just because God chose for some reason to eventually bless us, our marriage, and our family — it does NOT mean He was or is – endorsing our sinful beginnings.
Perhaps, being removed from poverty and racism through her track talents was not in God’s plan. But for so many who were invested in her life and well-being,… perhaps it is not “unspiritual” for them to be disappointed at this time.
Right, Gabe, I agree wholeheartedly! Wise words too.
Anyhow, YHWH is still in control as we life Irene up before Him for continued protection and direction, that His love surround her daily. Amein!
LaVaye, My heart was gladdened when I saw your name preceding your post for I knew that there would be words of wisdom and encouragement found therein-and there was, but I was suddenly saddened at the end of your post when I read of the loss of your beloved Ed after nearly 6 decades of union and the trauma-financially, emotionally, as well as the pain, grief and ‘drainage’ you are suffering. Our condolences first of all to you and your family. Our hearts ache for you, and all those who mourn; so we pray to Abba on your behalf: Bless LaVaye in her mourning and comfort her not only with all the wonderful memories they created together in You , but with the sure promises of hope for a joyous reunion and a time of dancing yet to come. We hope that you have someone who is able to help you to work though all these financial issues as they will drain you and keep you from healing, wholeness and shalom. We love you , Michael and Arnella
Dear Michael and Arnella, Thank you so much for your prayer and kind uplifting words. After I reread my e-above, I even did not like how I wrote it, I seemed to be complaining, and truly I did not intend to do that. Great is the faithfulness of our loving Heavenly Father. Skip spoke above about a 15 year old girl not listening to his advise on sexual activity outside of marriage, and her not being able to hear. Well, I think it is true of all ages not being able to grasp our lesson that we need & should learn in so many different areas! I know I did not expect death to be so traumatic to me, although we have buried parents, young friends, middle age ones, too. I personally have experienced it with the closest of a long term marriage. And one of the things I have focused on is to try and speak the things involved while it is fresh on my mind, heart, entire being. So that others will hear and learn in order to help them. Somehow it seemed too harsh when I reread what I wrote yesterday.
The unspeakable JOY of the LORD was & has been with me and all the family members so many times. I should speak and write of that more. I can name several totally what our family calls, “a GOD THING”, NO OTHER EXPLANTION. SOME HAVE BEEN SO SERIOUS, AND SOME SO FUNNY!
I have had a lifetime of family, I think I have mentioned that Ed and I have with their spouse 28 direct descendants. We have never lived close to them in miles, but in contact and closeness we are a very knitted group. All of them have come in the past months across the USA to visit at least once, even the great-grandchildren, and the children several times. I have had to say no to many visits from them ,or other numerous friends, as with me taking care of Ed, I simply could not do it all. That sets a picture of the surprise of seeming so alone. This holiday weekend- Labor Day, I was for the first time seemingly so ALONE.
However; this thought helped me, and will help all who grieve over Irene’s condition now: remember over in Genesis 16, when Hagar fled into the desert from Sarah? Well, a true picture of being alone, correct? But even there in a true wilderness, Hagar encountered the true presence of the Lord! Yes, so what a HOPE, AND MEANING FOR ALL OF US IN OUR GREAT GRIEFS! IN HIS WONDERFUL NAMES! LaVaye Billings
LaVaye,
I was glad to see that you had posted, but sorry to read of Ed’s passing. I love the title of the book you mentioned. You always have wise words to share. May the Father richly bless you and may you receive His Comfort.
Some response. First, of course, I don’t know what God has in mind. But I do know that pregnancy in a homeless camp at age 15 is a serious problem. And that this alone is enough to prevent her from getting out. As for “Track Star,” no, that was never the goal. The goal was to remove her if possible from a world where her future is very, very dim. I could care less if she became a great runner. I just wanted to see her have the chance to have food every day, not live on the floor, not retreat to a fetal position when she hears a loud noise, learn to read and write and have the life of a CHILD. Those things are not likely to be fixed where she is. THe more we investigated, the sadder her real story became. I just hoped to see her step away from all that.
And yes, I am sure that fear was a big motivator. Irene is basically poverty dependent. I had a long talk with an expert from South Africa on this, BEFORE the news. The longer Irene stays, the less chance she will even leave. Yes, God can do anything and Yes, I don’t know what He has in mind. But I know that human choices drastically interfere with what He is doing and I know that this choice was not something that fits the biblical idea of obedience.
It is extremely disappointing, but not for me. I just wanted to see her smile at the world.
Dear Paul,
We Americans tend to have very optimistic outlooks on life because we don’t face the same problems of those who live in poverty all of their days. We tend to think that “setbacks” can be overcome with more determination. And, as I have answered many others, God can do miracles in the lives of anyone who is open to them. But the reality of life in the camps is very different than the world we know – or can even imagine.
Irene may run again, with great success. If that becomes possible, we will help her. Her life is not over, but it is radically changed, and all of the signs of life in poverty are not good. She is surrounded by other girls who have made the same choices and who never leave. She has little chance of getting a education that will lift her from this world. Her child will most likely become a source of income and that encourages other children as a way to make money, not unlike policies in the USA that promote this. The chance of removing her from the environment diminished significantly. It is just plain SAD!
We won’t give up on Irene. She needs us now for sure. My greatest fears are her propensity now to adopt the permanency of poverty as a way of life. There is no denying this threat in spite of our good outlooks. It is very real for thousands of girls like her. I just don’t know what else to do now to help.
What you got from me was the raw emotion of tragedy. What I felt was the hopelessness of another victim of poverty. Of course, I know God can do something here that I cant’ imagine, but I have been around this enough to know the likely outcome and it breaks my heart.
Great song, Paul! Thanks for posting it.
As we all are, I am very sorry that Irene’s situation is now more complicated than before. But we never know what God’s plans are, so I will continue to pray that He will bring her to the place in her life where she will know how to make good decisions, in line with His instructions. May He be kind and gracious to her, just as He has already been.
Agreed. Irene will need lots of compassion and help. We will do what we can. It is obviously far more complicated now.
Skip,
Thanks for the sharing this story, it is so important to share life together the good and the bad.
Your heartbreak for this young girl is felt and multiplied by each one of us. Its hard to watch the younger generations make mistakes that effect their lives and the lives of those who love them, but we all know that our Redeemer lives and is always redeeming the mistakes we make. Consequences continue but her purpose and potential are clear so we will continue to pray for her and her child.
I agree with Paul, God’s plan is bigger than our mistakes and the connection you have made with her and those in her life is not over. Be encouraged that the seeds you have planted are still growing and will one day bring a harvest. God is Good!
Thanks for these words. It is NOT OVER, but some doors are closed now, doors that I had hoped would lead her out of her situation. Now we must wait to see what God has in mind. And pray.
All I could think was I know of another 15 year old unwed mother whose son brought redemption to the entire world. Irene could be carrying a Martin Luther King…physical intimacy does not create life, only YHVH can give it when He wills it.
You know, Sandra, that is the first thing that came to my mind too!
Children are ALWAYS a blessing no matter what the circumstances they are born under. Is her life more complicated? Perhaps. I agree with the others who have pointed out now more than ever is the time to show, faith in action, our concern for her well being. Rather than trying to remove her from the situation, perhaps helping her to learn how to cope with and help others rise up in the situation might be more useful, in that many more will benefit – not simply one girl who can run.
I have a very dear friend whose mother was raped back in the 30’s. This woman is a saint in my book. She had 4 children of her own, and adopted twelve others. Of the five that still live with her (on her farm out here in Southern Idaho, she is in her early 70s and lost her husband to cancer 17 years ago) 3 are adults but function on the level of 2 or 3 year olds, one has the mentality of a 12 year old and one, daughter who has mental issues as well, was married, got pregnant and then divorced so the daughter and her child live with her too.
Was this pregnancy inconvenient for her mother? Yes, I’d say so. How different the world would be for these people whose lives were touched by hers had she not been born though. Who is to say that Irene’s child won’t be the “one” who touches the lives of others, who says Irene, herself hasn’t already touched our lives in ways we will never forget?
“All I could think was I know of another 15 year old unwed mother whose son brought redemption to the entire world.”
Not the same at all. This child (Irene) was probably not sheltered by sold-out servants to YHVH, she herself was not serving God with her whole heart (unless this is a rape case?)… the baby, tho a precious miracle as all life is, was conceived in sin- her sin. This is a very very sad thing and a blatant sin (I can same that with personal experience.)
Please, don’t power puff this situation. Sin should NEVER be taken lightly. Oh how I wish I would have had strong, sold-out family and friends back in the day when I chose to be promiscuous… backslidden and grieving every moment of those 5 years. The world has NOTHING to offer… the LORD has and is EVERYTHING.
Yes, and I appreciate your projection of hope. We will see. We can still hope for Irene so she doesn’t lose hope altogether.
Hi Skip,
My husband and I are up at a Messianic Men’s retreat this weekend in Lynchburg, Virginia from HOI with Sam Nadler’s congregation from North Carolina. Dr. Michael Brown is the guest speaker. We have been learning so much – my husband is attending the meetings and I am listening to each one as it is posted on line.
I had not read Today’s Word (Hebrew Word Study) since we have been in the US… August 27th on.
BUT today I opened up and saw Irene’s beautiful face and read the story you shared. I too was grieved for her, but also in my heart wondering what the Lord has planned for her, why could she not still come to the US – (thought of all the legal ramifications, etc. etc.), but put it in the LORD’s hand.
I even thought how it would be like to take in Irene and knew in my heart that if God wants her to come to the US, continue running, and all, that He will open up the doors and take care of all the details, providing her with a wonderful family who can sponsor her – even with her being pregnant.
I closed my computer in prayer for her trusting that God will take care of her. I now look back and see all those who hold the same prayer. I leave you with my new favorite verse and pray God’s peace on you, Skip, Irene, her family, and this whole community who is affected by her precious life.
Isaiah 41:13 ” I am the LORD your God who takes hold of your right hand and says to you, Do not fear, I will help you.” I especially pray this for Irene – may she know Him and know that He is a God who helps!
In His Love, Linda K. Morales/ Bayamon. Puerto Rico
Yes, God can do what seems impossible. But I am only being realistic. The pregnancy closes some doors for good. It COMPLICATES everything. We will go forward and see what can be done. Without God, I am not sure what more we can do except support her as we are able.
Skip,
I’m so glad you and all of those involved with this girl did everything you could to help her. This is what Christians are supposed to do, and we aren’t to be discouraged when things like this happens. Everything is always in God;s hands; it’s how are we to act.
Rick
Bitter sweet…
Children are a BLESSING! Especially in the married/family setting!
Choosing to have one at such a young age..
such a harder path to travel.
Thank you for sharing…
whew..
LIFE happens…
especially when you are young without direction.
Choices.. create life or death..
whew..
PRAYING …
What the enemy meant for evil.. YAH uses it for GOOD! (TOWB!)
Praising YAH anyway & always!!
Your friends/family on the mountain~
Michael & Chari
Hi everyone –
I wonder if she would consider putting the baby up for adoption to a Christian couple?
Shawn
By the way…
even at our age..
(over 50)
we are ASKING YAH for more children/His gifts.
(we have only 2 adult children that have both fully rejected us)
Even reversed the vasectomy mistake we made many years ago.
(can we say WRONG choice & sad consequences)
Anyway…
just sharin’…
Life.. happens… still looking UP!!!
Praising YAH anyway & always..
Chari
My heart is sick.
I’ve always wondered exactly WHAT her parents and she believed and WHY when they claimed to be followers of Messiah… or did they? Is their faith more in the western-culture “missionary church” brought to them via the seminaries teaching false, anti-Semitic doctrine that Jesus isn’t really the JEWISH YESHUA and that Israel isn’t really God’s chosen after all? You know, the church that you speak about in your recent TW entitled, “Rumblings?”
I’m so very sad that Irene is not not only 15 and in a crisis pg but that, if she WAS serving the One True God, that she turned her back on Him in favor of fleshly, confusing, teenage, poverty-stricken (generational and cultural habits) desires. I’m suspicious about the fact that neither her parents nor she told you about this when you were there with them, Skip. Had they even discussed, when you first met them, that they saw sexual activity (and other societal drawbacks) as a huge risk for her future? Were they trying to manipulate you (us) or were they just nonchalant about your (our) involvement to help her perfect her talent/prod her to work hard to get out of the slums? Did we ASSUME that she WANTED help? Remember when you said that the Israelites who wondered in the desert for 40 years had to… that they could not make the paradigm shift from slaves to free men? This feels the same.
Oh how effective is that snake in the grass, Satan.
I know that Irene HEARD the risks because I told her point blank about the consequences of sexual activity over a year ago. I am also pretty sure that such behavior is expected and not treated as something serious in the camp and even by her parents who already have multiple grandchildren with no obvious father in the mix. But I don’t know what they told her.
I know she is afraid and perhaps this contributed.
I do not know anything about the claim to be followers of YHWH or Yeshua. We never made our choice to help based on this criteria.
But I do know something about real poverty and what it does to the mental and moral condition of people, particularly children. I have seen it over and over around the world. This is NOT unusual behavior. It is what typically happens and is why so many never escape.
I don’t think Irene was deceitful. I think she just didn’t know what to do or say. I think she saw a dream collapse right in front of her – and this is all she has every known.
“But I do know something about real poverty and what it does to the mental and moral condition of people, particularly children. I have seen it over and over around the world. This is NOT unusual behavior. It is what typically happens and is why so many never escape.”
Could this be said of our black communities in the US?
Yes, I know it could and I have seen it first hand. Met Jesse Jackson today standing in a line in London. Unusual. We spoke a bit. What his community needs is what nearly all poor communities need – FATHERS!
The problem is that government programs are purposely designed to take the place of both our Heavenly & earthly father!
My first response to this post this morning was a certain amount of anger
It was not because Irene had sex before marriage, I would have expected her to do that
Rather it was knowing that Irene could not afford a child
And that she is not mature enough to raise a child, responsibly
I was angry angry at her father, because she did not abort that child
When it was just a little bigger than a human cell
In my view, that would have been the lesser of two evils
On her life, her family’s lives, and all the lives of those in her community
To abort that microscopic form of “clay” with its divine spirit is a sin to be sure
But to continue behavior that threatens the very existence of her community and society
Must be stopped IMO
The model of having babies that nobody can afford or raise does not scale
It will destroy the planet IMO
On a more positive note, I would be more than happy to provide some final support for Irene
At this point
Luzette and I will talk soon about what we can reasonably do. There are now a lot of other issues, not just the pregnancy. So we have to be careful about all this.
“I was angry angry at her father, because she did not abort that child
When it was just a little bigger than a human cell”
That little cell had divided, multiplied and begun brain stem development before she could even have known of her pregnancy. Torah teaches us to protect life. Who are we to suggest that this little life is of less value to YHVH than our own, just because the circumstances are bleak from our perspective?
Thank you Suzanne.
That little cell had divided, multiplied and begun brain stem development before she could even have known of her pregnancy.
Hi Suzanne,
Back in the 70’s, I helped raise a “daughter” named Suzanne and as son named Zane
And my own daughter, Sinead, looks a lot like Suzanne, but my son Sean is not like Zane
And I love my children more than I have ever loved anything else in my life
The first time that I saw my daughter she was somewhat bigger than the head of a pin
And it was the happiest day of my life
However I don’t think my daughter was a human being at that point
At this point I would give my life to save my daughter
At that point I would not consider it
Yahweh puts the Israelis in situations every day
Where innocent men, women, and children can be killed
Obama’s choice right now is whether or not to kill innocent people in a just cause
We don’t live in the Garden of Eden
Michael wrote, “I don’t think my daughter was a human being at that point.”
Isn’t the point of TW to learn WHAT GOD THINKS (and then TELLS US what He thinks and wants BECAUSE HE LOVES US ENOUGH TO SHARE THOSE PLANS WITH US!)… not what we think about what He thinks???
A fertilized egg is one cell called a zygote created from one male gamete (sex cell) and one female gamete. A zygote is THE ONLY CELL like itself in the female body… it IS completely unique and human… not becoming human. Talk to any couple working with a fertility specialist to try to get pg: they have a very clear understanding of when and how actual conception (of a human) occurs.
I’ve always found it queer that, when people are TRYING to get pregnant, they are very clear on what that whole process and initial goalmeans, but when the baby isn’t convenient or wanted, so very many people become deceived about the HUMAN life inside the woman, WHO made conception possible and what their responsibilities are to maintain that life.
Wow, Michael… better check whom you really serve.
hu·man be·ing
noun
1.
a man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens , distinguished from other animals by superior mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright stance.
Hi Daria,
Clearly we don’t want to kill human beings
But a zygote is not a human being IMO
Personally I’m more concerned with the ethical issues we face with Syria today
Wesley Clark eloquently and forcefully stated that we should strike back now
My question is what good is going to be done and how many innocent
Men, women, and children must we kill in the process
And I think there is a pretty good chance that we will make matters worse
And will it be worth the cost?
“But a zygote is not a human being IMO”
Yes, Michael. I clearly understand your opinion. My point is to check out YHVH’S point of view… which is THE ONLY TRUE AND ACCURATE “point of view.”
Fear YHVH. Ps 147:11
Thinking in poverty mentality would take this as defeat, but we know it doesn’t have to be that way. Why can’t the offer remain in tact and get her schooling and she is young enough to continue with training. Overcoming is what she needs, wash the shame and guilt from her with a paradigm shift of thinking. This is unconditional love that overcomes and moves forward with dreams and destiny.
With love all things are possible, this is what she needs to hear now. HOPE is her friend and all of ours.
I am asking the Lord to turn this around for her and become her manifested miracle today.
Thinking in poverty mentality would take this as defeat, but we know it doesn’t have to be that way.
Hi Sharon,
I’m thinking about her poverty, which is real; now she does not have the athletic option
My view was much less optimistic than Skip’s to begin with, but I never met her in person
If she needs to raise a child, then she can’t go to school very easily or get a job
I agree that shame and guilt are negative emotions that don’t add much value
Unless you are in the middle of something that you are not supposed to be doing
Regarding unconditional love, I think that only means something in a relationship
I don’t have a relationship with Irene, but I can ask the Lord to turn this around for her
Shalom
I’m thinking about God’s abundance which is more real!
With help she can go to school and she can get a job, people do it all the time. If there are so many people willing to help her there is no reason for doors to shut on her options at this point. She needs help to believe in herself again. Are we not our brother’s keeper? and that would constitute a relationship as you put it.
Hope does not give up.
School is possible. Jobs are probably not possible. That’s why she lives where she lives. There are few options for income for young, pretty women who have no marketable skills and are of the “Wrong” color in the world of South Africa. There is begging and there is prostitution. Both are a function of extreme need. There isn’t much else, realistically. Things can get much worse for Irene but we will do all we can to prevent that.
Like Skip, I feel so sad that Irene has fallen prey to her circumstances. (my tears are falling)
The next proper thing to do would be to speak with the father of the baby, that he stands by her, and be responsible. That would bring some stability to Irene. And Irene needs to know why folks care for her, that she may know Who to call upon and run to.
For now, we leave it to YHWH to reveal the next phase of her life.
Oftentimes I wondered why ABBA did not prevent such things from happening, He could if He chose to, from my personal experience. So, perhaps He has a better plan for her, we just don’t know for now.
Take heart Skip, you have done all you can. YHWH’s shalom upon you.
I don’t think Americans can fully understand Irene, her life, and the ramifications of her choices. We view this situation through our American lens – I whole-heartedly agree with Skip. She has closed doors. Not to say that God won’t open others, but everything changed. You have to have an up-close and personal encounter with the squatters camps and the people in them in South Africa to understand the situation. Even an education often doesn’t change the hope for getting out. I have volunteered at schools in the South African townships, I have talked to kids who lived in them and were able to get an education. My husband has taught classes on how to get a job and to start a business. I have seen other girls make the same choices, even though they might have had a way out. For the majority, nothing will change for them. It is very sad. In my opinion, there is not a “right” color or a “wrong” color. I did see many who had a wonderful joy of the Lord, despite their circumstances.
Laura, YOU are so correct, Americans can not understand, unless they go to live in one of these third world countries. I can remember throwing myself across the bed in Lahore, West Pakistan (its name in 1963-64) and weeping uncontrollable. That was not my nature. Trying to make some sense of the area where my husband and I, and two children lived. Our six year old daughter was ill with l05 temp diagnosed as malaria along the journey over. We were blessed beyond measure to have a Baptist lady Missionary M.D. from Scotland to tend to her in the Hospital Mission owned and run by a joint effort of the Methodist and Presbyterians in the U.S. She was given all the quinine a child her age could take, but thanks a thousand times over she lived. Grew into an extremely worthwhile productive Christian, even if she is a denomination that is continually condemned on this blog as being of the “replacement theology”. Many Christian Groups throughout past several hundred years have done so much in other nations in the way of education, organization, roads, etc. We need to give thanks for all of them, and not dwell on their failures. All of us have failed! This racial thing where ever it is on either side has greatly abused the opposite side.
It was 112 degree weather, but we had a newly constructed Japanese home leased to the U.S. Fulbright Program. Our Volkswagen bus out of West Germany with the drive on the right hand side did not arrive for two months. We had to “share” a tiny bug with another Fulbright family. Our home had been built by a Pakistani man for his Japanese wife, but was transferred before they every lived in it. No screen doors anywhere, no air-condition. My husband set about to have screen doors made for the kitchen first of all. the drain pipe from the standing sink did not go down into the floor. for reasons that we never understood.
But even a heavier weight for my tears was the poverty all around me in Gulberg 11, Lahore. The mud village directly across the road from our beautiful home in comparison, was just that MUD, and when the heavy rains came, well you know the rest. Our servant, dumped our trash: cans, boxes, paper pieces of whatever, and before he got back into our Compound yard, it all been gathered up and carried into the mud huts with not windows, just an opening for a door. Our own servants had already taken the left over food and other worthwhile items. The Fulbright Lecture Program in those days required you to use several servants as one of the purposes was to use the money borrowed by these Third World Countries to be spent in that country to pass the money around. Senator Fulbright from Arkansas was the one to develop it after World War 11. It is still in existence, but I do not know how it operates. Fifty years ago each country that used it had different rules.–It changed my life forever and put me on a path of searching with all my heart, soul, mind , what I like to call the “Full Council of God.” The Scripture plainly teaches that we will find when we search with our entire being! That is the reason I say to Skip and Patrick, his Geek, and Michael, and a lot more whose names I will not call or do not know, THANK YOU, MAY YOU BE BLESSED GREATLY FOR OPENING UP A BLOG WHERE PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO DO THAT. THIS ISSUE OF CONCERN AND HEARTBREAK FOR & ABOUT* IRENE WILL STIR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT BEEN STIRRED BEFORE FOR POVERTY PEOPLE/NATIONS NO MATTER WHERE THEY ARE. I AM ASKING GOD FOR A GREAT POURING OUT OF HIS HOLY SPIRT ON EACH OF YOU-THOUGH I DO NOT SEE YOU, WHO READ AND GIVE GOD THANKS FOR HIS GREAT PROVISIONS FOR AMERICANS, AND ALL COUNTRIES THAT HAVE BEEN SO BLESSED. WE ARE AMONG THOSE AT THE TOP OF THE LIST !
LaVaye Billings ( to this day fifty years later, I never bath especially in warm water,- never liked cold baths in the winter!- that I do not give the Lord, praise and thanksgiving, also in almost all areas of my daily life—- and on—-& on it goes. )
Hello LaVaye Billings,
Firstly, thank you for sharing your experiences. It is heart-rending to see first-hand those living in poverty. I saw many beggars in India, and at the airport itself! That was shocking, they were asking for money to pay for food, they tug at your clothes. That was pretty petrifying, not having such an experience before! On another trip to China, kids too were begging, for money, some are deliberately maimed for that reason to tug at your emotions. I cried throughout that holiday!
“Grew into an extremely worthwhile productive Christian, even if she is a denomination that is continually condemned on this blog as being of the “replacement theology”. ”
May I say in this area, you are mistaken. Most of us in this blog has a hunger to relearn from Skip’s TWs to have that paradigm shift, from old mindsets, from wrong teachings that does not build up our trust/faith. Most of us here knew deep within us there is more, much more, than attending church.
The ones you see as being “condemned” are not here to relearn, they seemingly go against Skip’s teachings and what he is trying to show us. I hope you see that too?
Skip is not dwelling on the failures of the church, nor the believers, but their leaders, as written too in the Word, ‘Woe to those who feed not the sheep.’ On the other hand, the sheep is responsible for themselves to search the Scriptures.
If they are content where they are, so be it, no one is compelled to follow anyone, it is an individual journey. I hope you understand.
Shalom to you!
Ester wrote, “If they are content where they are, so be it, no one is compelled to follow anyone, it is an individual journey.”
Amen. Joshua 24:15
Actually, tolerance of this heretical hierarchy isn’t acceptable simply because the woman is content. Why not? Because this teaches her own children a heresy that affects their lives and it teaches those who know her that God is preferential and patriarchal. We do not live to ourselves alone.
“isn’t acceptable”
Acceptable to the flesh maybe. Proverbs 21:2
“We do not live to ourselves alone.” In the fellowship of followers of the Messiah HaMashiach/YHVH, no. In the isolated loneliness without “Them”, very much so, tho our daily and hourly walks with or without God effects and affects the entire world. Ephesians 2:1-6