The Big Problem
I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. John 17:15 NASB
From the evil one – The footnote in the NASB indicates that this verse might also be read, “ . . . to keep them out of the power of evil.” The sense of the verse may include both the general idea of evil and the personification of that power in the evil one. At any rate, as Morris suggests, “ . . it is equally important that they should be kept from evil, for evil is fatal to the discharge for their task.”[1] But Yeshua’s prayer request raises a problem of all followers. The world is filled with evil. How is this possible if the Father loves His creation, honors the prayer of the Messiah and cares for the well-being of those who serve Him? The problem of evil is perhaps the single greatest challenge to the claims of the Bible about the character of God.
Fretheim offers an insightful and powerful resolution.
Moreover, disorderly elements are inherent in wisdom (as with persons); such disorder is essential for creativity, growth, and the emergence of genuine novelty.[2]
These elements of disorder, as well as the dynamic character of wisdom, mean that one can never get a “fix” on wisdom, for, as with any person, it is a being that is always in the process of becoming. . . Those who search for wisdom will always be finding ever new dimensions of reality to be studied and will always be at least one step behind. As with persons, wisdom is forever inexhaustible.[3]
For God to decide to endure a wicked world, while continuing to open up the divine heart to that world, means that God’s grief is ongoing. God thus determines to take suffering into God’s own self and bear it there for the sake of the future of the world.[4]
In other words, when God chose to create other agents, He included the necessary corollary of voluntary chaos in creation.[5] The real implication of actions of agents other than God Himself means that creation has built-in elements of disorder. Things happen that are not God’s responsibility and are not essentially products of causal chains. Chaos is part of what it means to have an open universe. Chaos is required in order for human actions to have real consequence, that is, to actually change the outcome of the universe. Examining the problem of evil from the perspective of causality alone is to ignore the way the world actually exists. Yeshua asks the Father to protect his followers from both evil and the evil one, but this isn’t always possible because the world exists in a semi-out-of-control way. Therefore, the presence of evil is not the problem. As long as there are independent free-will agents, disorder, chaos and evil will be woven into the fabric of reality. The problem is not the existence of evil. The problem is what to do about it. And the biblical answer is to restore, fight, resist and trust. And learn to live with it while the universe is becoming what God intends.
Topical Index: evil, free will, disorder, John 17:15
[1] Leon Morris, The Gospel of According to John, p. 730.
[2] Ibid.
[3] Ibid.
[4] Terrence Fretheim, God and the World in the Old Testament: A Relational Theology of Creation, p. 83.
[5] See my book, God, Time and the Limits of Omniscience for the development of this concept.
Skip, your daily words are sometimes quite challenging. I feel like I am back in college sitting in a classroom waiting for the professor to come in and explain what I. The world did I read last night. ?
The problem of evil and the idea we are to become perfection including hypocrisy seems to be the biggest deterrents to people exploring faith in God. With evil being the thing which possibly keeps an atheist from believing. And perfection for the person that has some belief in God.
Just some thoughts. I may be way off the track but hopefully the professor will help if so. ?
Sorry I need to start proofing my words.
” what in the world did I read last night.”
Hello Skip and others,
Of late I am more able to perhaps recognize disorder in our world than evil. Examples, when people live together without the benefit of marriage, driving over the speed limit set by local ordinance, choosing a lifestyle contrary to Torah, etc etc. Resist, restore, fight and trust are ongoing efforts to oppose evil and the evil inclination. So, disorder and evil may either be relatives or synonyms. Thus, the important thing is not the definition, but the decided action executed with the help of YHVH!
Blessings to each,
David Russell
Could it be that disorder turns into evil such as pornography. An adult can make a decision to work in this area. But a child that is forced into this, I would call evil.
But I don’t know that I believe evil is an outside force such as the devil made me do it. No these people make a choice to exploit these children in horrible ways.
Our heavenly Father gave us choices, see I set before you today life and death , it’s up to us to choose , but would be delighted if we choose life , he also says that we should be in the world , but not of the world
Evil exists all around us, but we have to build up a resistance against it lurks at our doors constantly , it only needs a crack in that door and it’s in that’s why Paul says I die daily.
Is it not the heart of the gospel that we can be returned to that place of actually having a choice ?
Once, We were in bondage. Held captive. Our choices were limited. Now, having been set free, our choice to obey, to choose life, has been or is being restored. The unredeemed world is still a slave to sin. Hence evil abounds. Our task is to partner with Father in reclaiming creation.
Will the choice to live for God ever be over however? We are to spend our 70-80+ years on this earth discovering what it means to serve Him, live for Him, love others, and love Him as He already loves. But what does that mean?
In heaven we’re promised the struggle will be over but what then becomes of our free will to choose to do so? Are we still free willingly choosing?
Craig, I have certainly been restored.
“For God to decide to endure a wicked world, while continuing to open up the divine heart to that world, means that God’s grief is ongoing. God thus determines to take suffering into God’s own self and bear it there for the sake of the future of the world.[4]
I don’t know that I ever thought about how my actions might grieve God in my past. It was very much about me and what could God do for me.
It’s different today. I am more conscious of those actions but I still have work to do. I am a work in progress or process. ?
Praise YHVH. I cannot begin to fathom the kind of love God has shown us. And continues to show.
Out the box… If good and evil are part of God’s accepted creation and we are but a small minute part of this creation… Are we not part good and evil? And is it not in living these imbalances that we learn to be God’s true servants. How can you take Solomon the sex addict and make him Solomon the wise… Was it not the interactive practicing of these two strengths of Solomon that made his recorded teaching so packed with wisdom…
What is the wisdom in this reality? Did Paul provide the answer or did Moses? Or was Yeshua truth the real answer… Ye who have no sin cast the first stone… Not ye that did not fornicate…
I just wanted to pay some homage to the theme of restoration that runs throughout Scripture.
Isaiah NASB
2 Now it will come about that
In the last days
The mountain of the house of the LORD
Will be established [a]as the chief of the mountains,
And will be raised above the hills;
And all the nations will stream to it.
3 And many peoples will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
That He may teach us [b]concerning His ways
And that we may walk in His paths.”
For the [c]law will go forth from Zion
And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4 And He will judge between the nations,
And will [d]render decisions for many peoples;
And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not lift up sword against nation,
And never again will they learn war.
Amos 9 NASB
13 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the LORD,
“When the plowman will overtake the reaper
And the treader of grapes him who sows seed;
When the mountains will drip sweet wine
And all the hills will be dissolved.
14 “Also I will restore the [f]captivity of My people Israel,
And they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them;
They will also plant vineyards and drink their wine,
And make gardens and eat their fruit.
15 “I will also plant them on their land,
And they will not again be rooted out from their land
Which I have given them,”
Psalm 65
There will be silence [a]before You, and praise in Zion, O God,
And to You the vow will be performed.
2 O You who hear prayer,
To You all [b]men come.
Psalm 22
27 All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the LORD,
And all the families of the nations will worship before [u]You.
28 For the kingdom is the LORD’S
And He rules over the nations.
Psalm 145
The LORD is gracious and merciful;
Slow to anger and great in lovingkindness.
9 The LORD is good to all,
And His mercies are over all His works.
10 All Your works shall give thanks to You, O LORD,
And Your godly ones shall bless You.
11 They shall speak of the glory of Your kingdom
And talk of Your power;
12 To make known to the sons of men [d]Your mighty acts
And the glory of the majesty of [e]Your kingdom.
13 Your kingdom is [f]an everlasting kingdom,
And Your dominion endures throughout all generations.
Skip and other authors I have read say we are to help restore. Wow, I love that. I, little ol’ me, may actually have something to contribute. On my own I would never have thought of myself in that way. Thanks.
Yes,evil is often around us and we have to learn to deal with it if we can’t escape its clutches. That’s not always easy because we don’t always see it coming, and also because we are often faced with situations where no matter what choice we make, evil is at our doorstep. It doesn’t matter if we are dealing with the evil one, evil people, or pure evil. I much prefer to see evil coming and to have multiple options of avoiding it. This makes me wonder what God was thinking when He allowed this. I get the philosophical stuff, but I’m a bit more practical in my thinking. My biggest challenge comes when purely evil people decide I’m a great target and they just go after me to have a little repeated fun at my expense. There’s got to be a dependable way to cut those kind of people out of my life forever. If it’s not just evil people, it’s the fallout of people’s wicked or foolish choices, including my own. Everything has consequences whether it’s good or evil. This too is life. In addition, the emotions that accompany dealing with evil take their toll whether it’s anger, envy, pride, fear, grief, etc. I guess that’s why there is a need for “Agents of Salvation.” There are plenty of those in the Scriptures.
I think it is truly difficult to know what is the right path and how to keep evil as in other people’s actions at bay. I too have dealt with situations where you don’t know “how” to extricate yourself from a potentially harmful situation. These days I try to steer clear of those.
Kim Cross wrote a riveting book about the deadly April 2011 tornadoes that ravaged the U.S South’s tornado alley. After the catastrophe, the lead meteorologist, a man of deep faith, spoke to a stunned congregation in one particularly hard-hit area. He said that he could not tell them why this disaster had happened the way it had. He said “Why?” is the wrong question, and that we will never get an answer at this time and place. He said that the correct question is “What?” What can we do to take this and turn it into something positive?
We can ask, “Why, Lord? “When will these things be?” “Where are You going?” “Who will be chosen?” But it’s the “What must we do?” question that the Lord chooses to answer at length.
I thought about evil more yesterday evening. It has a way of shaping us. It seems that God uses the evil in the world to see how we will respond to it…to see what’s really in our hearts. Will we respond with anger, bitterness, envy, pride, revenge, or resentment? Will we respond with shock, grief, patience, pity, or forgiveness? Will we forsake YHVH or cling/cry out to Him for comfort? Will that drive us to commit evil or increase our zeal for Torah?
Skip after pondering on Solomon and his wives… Maybe it wasn’t his sex addiction but rather his insight to consult a lot of women that resulted in the wisdom he was able to share…
Nice try, Seeker, but I think REPENTANCE is the only path to wisdom any of us have… Them women were pagans, and how much time did he actually spend with them to transmit anything? He bought them off with temples to their gods. Not very smart.
Repentance… Turning away from sin so that we can live in the light of his word…
Well Laurita money can buy you anything that does not involve love..
Repentance requires that you love yourself enough to want to bring about change…
And Christ requires we love others as our self… So repentance requires reaching out to be exposed to others…