Paul the Platonist? (1)

For we know that if the earthly tent which is our house is torn down, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.  For indeed in this house we groan, longing to be clothed with our dwelling from heaven, 2 Corinthians 5:1-2

Earthly tent – Mas. Chagigah 12b in the Talmud, citing many verses including Isaiah 57:1, teaches the pre-existence of the soul.[1] Paul would have been familiar with this teaching. His analogy of the physical body as a earthly tent suggests that he also believed in the separation of body and soul, the body housing the animating breath of YHVH. Talmudic explanations suggest that upon death the “soul” returns to the Lord who gave it and must therefore be returned in the condition it was received, namely, pure and undefiled. But this does not mean that Paul was a Platonist. Understanding the difference between the Talmudic idea of body and soul and Plato’s conception of body and soul is crucial, especially since Western religion is essentially Platonic rather than Talmudic.

Perhaps we can best summarize the Jewish idea of death and afterlife in a single sentence: no one really knows what this means. While it seems clear that there is an afterlife, there is little uniformity on its character, nor on the relationship between the “soul” of a human being in this world and the existence of the person in the world to come. What is true of virtually all Jewish sects is the belief that reward and punishment are recompensed for actions chosen in this world. Therefore, behavioral choices here are significant and decisive. This is the first important difference between the Jewish-Talmudic concept of body and soul compared to Plato’s view. In Platonic thinking, the material world is essentially flawed and unfit for true spiritual existence. Actions taken in this world are therefore also essentially corrupt. In Plato’s view, the most important (and perhaps the only) choice is to exercise the option of eros by leaving this world behind and entering into a purely spiritual existence undefiled by any physical matter. In other words, if Paul were a Platonist he would do all he could to exit this “earthly tent” since simply being in the world is a mark of deficient existence.

There are other significant differences, but let’s just elaborate this one. If I believe that the “real” world is the world of purely spiritual existence separated from the corruption of the physical (all those bodily desires that trip me up), then my goal will be to get out of here, that is, to get to “heaven” where I will no longer have to contend with the body. It follows that whatever happens in this bodily existence might have consequences here but has no consequences later when I no longer occupy this body. Whatever form I have in the next life, it will not be tied to the corrupt body I have now, so it really doesn’t matter what I do with or to this present body. I will get a brand new, start-over. So, by the way, will the entire universe. Consequently, what I do to this world doesn’t really matter anyway. Yes, I may have some moral obligations now, but they are merely temporary, while I am here. They do not carry over into the next life.

This, of course, is not what Paul teaches, nor is it taught anywhere in the Jewish concept of life on this earth. First, YHVH made what exists now, and even though it is broken, it is not garbage. The goal of living is not escape. It is restoration to the original. Therefore, every action here counts, not only here but in the life to come. The next life is contingent upon this life and directly related to it. If I ignore my obligations to the creation, including the creation of my own body, I eternally damage what God intended for me to restore and there will be eternal consequences. The physical world is the world of His creation. It was pronounced “good,” and it is no less so simply because Man had defiled it. Death does not provide an exit from obligation to the creation. I don’t start over. What I will experience is cloudy now, but it will certainly involve continued obligation and interaction with what God created from the beginning.

The Platonist can summarily dismiss this world, and the world of his own material existence, as but a shadow of the true reality. The Jew cannot. Therein lies an enormous difference. How you behave demonstrates whether you are working for Zion or Valhalla.

Topical Index: body, soul, tent, Plato, death, Talmud, afterlife, 2 Corinthians 5:1-2

[1] Interested readers may consult Everyman’s Talmud, p. 78 and the original text of Mas. Chagigah 12b at http://halakhah.com/pdf/moed/Chagigah.pdf. Other sources concerning the ideas of death and afterlife can be found at http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/282508/jewish/What-Happens-After-We-Die.htm, and http://www.jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm.

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Pieter

It was interesting to note in the “What-Happens…” article that Jews also believe in re-incarnation.
As so many times in discussions, the time it takes to synchronize definitions often prevents one from getting to the points.
The word “soul” is especially misleading. It sometimes refers to the spirit, other times to the mind, and elsewhere to a body with life.
It may be more easy to understand and to see a human as:
– A physical body;
– Two minds: an instinctive mind (which dies with the body) and a cognitive mind (which goes to Gan Eden or Geyhinnom after death); and
– A spirit (which returns to YHWH, from where it came, after death)

laurita hayes

Where does our consciousness go when we sleep each night, or go into coma, etc.? Why does it return to us? If Someone does not hold it for us, and shepherd it for us, then I am at a loss. So is the rest of the scientific community, too, it seems. The mystery of human consciousness is a huge one.

If death is considered a sleep, then I am unconscious in it just as I am in a coma, or asleep at night, except it is more profound. When Lazarus was raised from the dead, he had NOTHING to say about what happened to him while he slept. He just picked up right where he left off, with no revelations or experiences to share. This is significant to me.

People with ‘white light’ experiences are suspect for me. The human mind is extremely vulnerable to suggestion and to imagination, and people who can see ghosts and beings of the imagination, and people who go around ‘seeing’ eyes and faces and other beings superimposed on their waking sight, and people who have had kundalini ‘awakenings’ and can see auras around me would also be in that group. Our sense of reality is sifted through multiple layers of paradigm before we even get to ‘see’, and that is every one of us. Our brain is so protective of our experience of reality it won’t even ‘let’ us have direct contact with it! In other words, we only see and experience what we believe is true! Put it this way, people who do NOT believe in immediate life after death in another form are not the kind of people who end up ‘seeing’ any of these things. Sight follows belief, and that, as far as I can tell, has been proven to be the case scientifically also, at least as far as a discipline that is limited to what it can gather with the five senses can be, I suppose.

A fatalist is limited to what is in front of their face. A believer has access to a reality that is available to those who can grasp it by faith. If I believe the Scripture which tells me that I will be raised IN MY BODY to see Him, then that body had better be in a good enough condition to be able to see Him, and have enough capacity to “meet Him in the air”, too, and live eternally, too, as I have been promised, and it will certainly not be one that is diseased and impure and ugly, either, but that does not mean that I will have a DIFFERENT one, or one that I cannot be recognized in, or that I cannot recognize myself in either, I don’t think. G-d is going to do whatever He pleases, whatever I may think I know about it, but He is limited to what He can apply of that to me, by what I allow Him to do for ME. If I believe in Him, then I believe all that He can do also. If I exclude Him from my belief system, however, then I have chosen to limit myself from the dimensions that He operates in, too, with eternal consequences. He said that if I believed in Him, I would do what He says: I would do His Word. I would hate to be limited in my future to only what I believed about it today! I think I will choose to obey Him, and leave the future up to Him, too!

bpWade

I’ve had what i consider to be two ‘near death’ experiences, Laurita, and the first, most dramatic, if you will, came prior to my exposure to religion.

I was 14 or 15 sitting in a health care facility when i suddenly blacked out. I remember a long, grey hallway with a number of other people (shadows) all moving toward a light.

There was a red balloon just a few steps ahead of me and for some reason i desperately wanted it. I was moving towards it, reaching for it, when i heard a voice saying to me “it is not your time yet, you have to go back”…i stopped, hesitating and the statement was repeated, more firmly. I turned around, when i did i came to and all these people were standing around me, freaking out.

Evidently they couldn’t find a pulse, emergency alert had been put out and the responders were just showing up when i regained consciousness. That was 40 years ago, almost, and i still wonder about those words ‘not your time yet’…

The other time was a few years after i broke my back, but before they took the rods out. I was on a cocktail of pain relievers, muscle relaxers and allergy pills (allegra, i’m sure). I was sitting down when i suddenly pitched forward, i was blacking out. As everything faded i heard “this is not unto death”.

When i wake up it is almost dark out, it was bright midday sun when i passed out. On screen of my computer an article had popped up talking about the dangers of this particular allergy medicine.

After consulting w/my GP, who kind of quietly freaked out when he reviewed the list of meds i was taking (had been seeing a few different doctors and hadn’t yet learned to carry around a list) he trimmed things down considerably.

I often wonder about the verbiage of that last statement as well. King Jame’s english? Really?

Pam

Ec. 12:6-7 When the silver cord is severed,
the golden vessel is broken,
the pitcher is shattered at the fountain,
and the wheel is broken at the cistern,
then man’s dust will go back to the earth,
returning to what it was,
and the spirit will return to the God who gave it.

Job 19:26 And after my skin hath been thus destroyed, yet from my flesh shall I see God:

Matthew 5:8
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.