Straight-line Depreciation
For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks; but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Romans 1:21
Foolish Heart – Are you sitting down? You might want to. As we approach the end of this year (according to the pagan calendar), I see some connections between almost 2000 years of Christian teaching and the current condition of our world. They aren’t connections that I want to see. Perhaps you will be able to convince me that I am mistaken. But like Paul, I am concerned. Some time ago I stood at the Western Wall of the Temple Mount in Jerusalem and wept. I went there to pray, but there were no words to speak. I was simply crushed by the enormous despair in our world. I don’t mean that I saw despair in those who were at the Wall. They celebrated God. What struck me was the awareness that the Church I know has contributed a great deal to this sense of hopelessness, in spite of all its words to the contrary. It is simply not possible to continue to refuse to honor God as God, the way in which He reveals Himself, and expect to walk away unscathed. So, here are some straight-line depreciation ideas to consider. These things bother me. Maybe I’m wrong about them, but if I’m not, what does that mean for you and me in the next year?
- For centuries the Church taught that women were not equal with men. Of course, theologians claimed ontological equality (they were created equal), but in practice they treated women as weaker, more easily seduced, less disciplined, less capable of leadership or other roles within the Body. These men claimed God divinely relegated women to submission to their husbands as a result of the Fall. It doesn’t really matter what theological manipulations were needed to promote such an idea. The result has been a general disregard for the full humanity of women, encouraged by the culture and tacitly endorsed by the Church. Recently a survey shows that violence toward women in the media is up more than 100%. The world is filled with sex slavery, pornography, abuse, rape and gender bias. I believe this is a straight-line result of a failure to honor God’s Word in Genesis and to give Him thanks for His good creation when it comes to women. The Church refuses to acknowledge that God made women priests because they impose Greek thinking on the text. This is a colossal failure to read the text with Hebrew eyes. Today, this issue stands at the forefront of the Christian worldview as the greatest oppression since the Inquisition. Until it is confronted as hypocrisy, arrogance and sin, the Church has nothing to say to women, and they should refuse to listen!
- The early church fathers introduced the idea of the “new” Israel, a spiritual replacement of God’s elect people. Political opportunity, theological hubris, anti-Semitism and other forces conspired to promote what is now the standard, unquestioned theological position of every Protestant denomination and the Catholic Church. This declaration marginalized the people of Israel, obscured or denied their unique place in God’s government and shifted the outlook of the Church from a Hebraic to a Greek worldview. The result has been more than one Holocaust. Centuries of disregard for God’s people led to the systematic expunging of everything Jewish from Christian thinking. There is a straight-line between this failure to honor God as He revealed Himself and the current collapse of any significant influence of the Church on culture. Look around you. Has the Church stood in solidarity with its Jewish brothers? Has the Church done anything of real significance to stem the tide of immoral, heretical, apostate behavior even in its own ranks? Is the Church anything more than a “religious” reflection of cultural values? What can we say to the world when we are responsible for centuries of hatred, violence and rejection of God’s people and God’s word given to His people? Why doesn’t the Church have the power of Acts coursing through its veins? Maybe it’s because we are no longer grafted into Israel.
- Christianity today is the syncretism of political, economic, social and epistemological views that are not based in the Word of God. Replacement theology did more than promote the supremacy of the Church. It broke the continuity of the culture of God’s people. By the end of the second century, the beliefs and practices of Yeshua and his disciples had been eliminated from the newly invented religion of Christianity. Perhaps the reason we read the book of Acts and wonder why our churches do not exhibit such power and persuasion has more to do with our systematic denial of the Hebraic worldview than anything else. We Christians are the apostates. We left the God of Israel behind in our pursuit of power, programs and promises. We converted Israel’s faith into a religion of our own making. Of course, most Christian believers today have no idea of the heretical history behind their form of worship, but this much they do know: Something is terribly wrong. Something vital is missing. There is a straight-line between the ignorance, denial and rejection of a Torah-based lifestyle and the insipid, vacuous, frantic romanticism of Christians. A Jew without Torah is obsolete. A Christian without Torah is a hypocrite.
It’s worth noting that Paul uses the singular “foolish heart” in this verse. We would have expected “hearts,” one for each person. But Paul tells us that they participated in one morally mistaken discernment. They were as one in their vain attempt to replace the God of Scripture with their own invention. I wonder if we Christians haven’t arrived at the same singular place.
Most people can’t remember more than three important things at the same time, so we will stop here. Paul laid a challenge before the Roman followers of Yeshua in his proclamation of the deterioration of their culture. That challenge was simple: Will you follow the pathway of those who deny the God of Israel as He revealed Himself, who refuse to thank Him for His choice of one people to bring all the world to His feet, who pretend that their endless speculations are a substitute for His revealed truth OR will you acknowledge Him as He is, honor Him and thank Him by repenting of your hubris and returning to His revealed ways?
In the next few days before we mark one more pagan festival of a new year, perhaps these three straight-line consequences will cause you to reconsider how you will live. Women, the Church and the Torah community – just these three. It’s probably enough.
Topical Index: women, church, Torah, foolish heart, Romans 1:21
Truely a much needed ‘warning call’ from a Watchman on the wall, Skip. Your sense of urgency in heeding these three areas is most commendable.
A brief note on the lighter side: Your choice of title is revealing to me. Being a ‘taxing’ situation, “straight-line depreciation” is most appropriate.
Provactive and stimulating Skip. I would agree of course that our Greek philosophical worldview hampers us in our biblical practice and obscures our understanding and place of Israel. Yet I see the glass as half full rather than half empty. I believe that God will reveal His Israel to the Church because of his mercy when Israel is at her greatest hour of need. Another reflection and demonstration of His grace and our absolute carnality. One puzzling statement you made. Women were never allowed into the priesthood preMelchizedec. In fact, polygamy was practiced in Israel during the time of Jesus. Could you explain your statement?
Do not let the carnality of the Church or me dampen your heart to love the Body. When we see clearly, love becomes more difficult.
A small piece of good news…In The Jerusalem Post today, David Horovitz wrote an article discussing Replacement Theology. He said more and more Evangelicals are seeing the error of Replacement Theology. He discusses how Dr. John Hagee has been a champion of this cause for over 20 years.
Correction: The article in the Jerusalem Post was written on 3/20/06, not today (12/27/09.) I found it by googling Replacement Theology
May our Abba’s “grace and peace” be yours today brother Skip. I know (experientially) when Abba “opens your eyes”, there will be tears. I have come to the place of “knowing”, when I have my “quiet time” in the early morning of each new day with my Abba, if there are no tears, I feel as if I have wasted my time. (when in reality- time “wasted” with G-d is no waste at all!).
A word to all. (and I am greatly encouraged/strengthened by this). G-d has a remnant, and He knows who belongs to Him. (I don’t). This is His church and this is the LORD’s doings and it is marvelous in our eyes. He has said (and we do listen to what He says, right?) “I will build my church.” This is His mission and we are either going to help or we are (lol/not) going to hinder. I refuse to stand in the way of G-d as He builds His church.
Let us think eschatologically. (I was so hoping when I woke up this morning, I would get to use a big word!-lol!). The kingdoms of this (messed-up) world have and will become the kingdom of our LORD and of His Christ. “It is written” and “it came to pass” are one and the same thing. If G-d has declared it to be true, dear brothers and sisters, it is and it will be. We stand on the authority of the revealed truth as found within a book of instruction. We must, we must be a people (united) of the Word of G-d. Yeshua (Jesus to some) has said (His words are eternal-remember?) “you do err, not knowing the scripture (that’s right Skip- O.T.!) or the power of G-d. This (I believe) is a Hebrew tautology (another ten cent word!),- the power of G-d is contained within His words.
Think of the power of a single word! In the final battle scene (the big one- Armeggedon) there stands ONE with a sharp two-edged sword proceeding out of his mouth. Ok fifth-graders, what would this “two-edged sword” be? (er.. uh..) Let me think.. (please).. Hmm.. “sharp, two-edged sword”- now where have I heard those words used before? It’s here somewhere in the book.. let me see if I can find it. (Give me a minute.. -I’m lookng.. ah.. here it is.. )
You want an army, brother Skip? You want some people to stand against the world (public enemy #1?) the flesh, -(enemy #2?), and Hasatan, (now defeated) enemy-number 3? Then be the leader G-d has appointed you to be and “feed my sheep”. We need meat. We need bread. We need “living water.” Feed us and we will fight. Help us to know G-d’s word. Do not be distracted from the mission G-d has given unto you. Precept upon precept, line upon line.. every day- we feast! (and we fight!) Teach us His word and teach us to pray. The LORD.. He is G-d! Hallelujah for the cross! Hallelujah for the resurrection! Worthy is the Lamb who was slain and has redeemed unto G-d by His blood. Tell us about it…
I see the quartet is practicing in the park. Is it time to sing dirges in the dark? Please tell me the music has not really died.
we killed the music 2,000 years ago-but (praise His name!)- He had other plans..
“God my Maker, who giveth songs in the night.”
—Job 35:10.
There’s within my heart a melody.. Jesus whispers sweet and low- “Fear not, I am with thee- “Peace,be still”, in all of life’s ebb and flow”..
No.. brother Roderick, I will assure you.. the “Chief Musician” lives on..
Carl, well said and thank you for the encouragement… by the way my wife’s name is Melody… and she is within my heart
way cool!- as well she should be! -You have a song indeed dear brother!- Praise His name!
Skip –
I think you are off track in your conclusions
1)About women – I agree that horrendous violence against women goes on every day….but that is not the Church’s fault for assigning ‘a second-class role to women’. There is also horrendous violence done to men – massive slaughter. This is due to sin and evil in the world. You are mistaken in saying this is due to a Christian worldview. This is a result of all of humanity’s sin. Don’t forget that more people have died as a result of secular/atheistic philosophies than atrocities committed by the church. No excuses for the church – but broaden your perspective
2)About the ‘new Israel’. First of all – you cannot attribute ‘replacement theology’ to all the protestant denominations. There are plenty of pre-mil Protestants out there who hold to a literal Israel being saved by God. I happen to be an amillenial /reformed Christian and I disagree. I believe that Christ and the apostles (who received the HS whose mission was to bring all of Jesus’ teachings back to their memories and continue to teach them all things see John 14:26) have spiritualized some of the promises and applied them to new covenant Christians. It is we who believe God who are Abraham’s children, and Abraham was assured by God that his seed throughout the world would be blessed. In other words, believers “…….are the Israel of God, Abraham’s seed, and the heirs to the promises, only because by faith, we are united to him who alone is the true Israel, Abraham’s one seed.” (See Strimple, “Amillennialism,” in Bock, ed., Three Views of the Millennium and Beyond, 89).
Regarding your comment attributing several holocausts to the church, I’m assuming you are talking about Nazi Germany in one case. If so, that has nothing to do with Christians. That was a result of pure evil and the carrying out of Darwin’s ideas.
3)Your third point about the syncretism in the church is well-articulated. But there ARE biblical Christians and biblical churches who teach accurately out of the Word of God. Again, you are generalizing unfairly when you say Jesus’ teachings were expunged from Christianity by the 2nd century. You leave the reader with the impression that things today are the way they were in Constantine’s version of the Church.
I really do not understand your point that Christians SHOULD lead a Torah-based life. Jesus came to fulfill the law on our behalf. His righteousness for our sin. He died for us, cancelling the written code with its regulations that stood opposed to us. So why should we do what the Galatians were doing and go back to Torah-based living?
Law does not lead to life. Christ died to give us freedom. We’re to love God and love our neighbor. Full stop/period. Anything more is man-imposed.
I think the appeal to a torah-based life is that it is easier to know when you are okay/not okay. True freedom is much tougher. But we have to grow up, Skip.
All the above is written in love as to a brother.
Let me tackle some of your objections.
1. Women – there can be no doubt that the theological position of the Church ( capital C – the Church as a whole ) has taught that women play a subservient role to men. One need only refer to the early theology of Catholicism, the Reformers or just about any theologian in the last century. Modern representatives would include Grudem and Piper. Refer to Davidson (Flame of Yahweh) for his summary of the 6 positions held by the church over its history, half of which include limitations and restrictions on women. Refer to Bilezikian (Beyond Sex Roles) for an analysis of the contemporary positions held by prominent theologians advocating that the Bible teaches women play a subservient role. While you are correct that history is full of violence toward women (and men), I think you didn’t grasp how much the church has contributed to this situation by relegating women to a lesser status than men. In fact, if you review the Church’s historical record, you will find that a great deal of violence toward women came at the hands of the Church under the claim that Eve was responsible for sin’s entry into the world and that all women bear her curse. The record is clear. Men taught this as biblical truth. They still do. Paul’s letters are read as endorsement for restricting women from most of the leadership roles in God’s community. This is a tragic denial of the Torah’s view of women, and, in my opinion, the greatest mistake of the contemporary Christian community.
2 – On Israel. Nearly every major denominational seminary teaches replacement theology. You can check this out yourself. Just examine the textbooks for their church history and soteriology classes. Every mainline denomination embraces the theory that the Church took the place of Israel at Pentecost. In fact, the Church usually teaches that its inception was at Pentecost and since that moment, it has been God’s messenger of truth to the world. Your introduction of premillenial dispensationalism doesn’t change this fact. Dispensationalists are also replacement theologians. They simply teach that in this dispensation, Israel is set aside. The fact that Israel will at some time in the future be reunited with the Church is beside the point. That view clearly assumes that Israel will CONVERT to Christianity rather than the Church will be reunited with Israel. Notice in your own quote (from Bock) the use of the term “the true Israel.” This is a fundamental tenant of replacement theology. Spiritual Israel is the Church. National Israel, the people God chose at Sinai, has been replaced by this new form of Israel. It doesn’t matter what eschatological view of the end you have. It matters only that you have two forms of Israel.
As for your view of the holocaust, please note that there is considerable historical evidence to show that Hitler cited Martin Luther’s hatred for the Jews as the theological foundation for his pogrom. Furthermore, many scholars have shown that the strand of anti-semitism which began in the early church fathers made a direct contribution to many attempts to exterminate the Jews long before Hitler came to power. Finally, the Roman Catholic Church (as well as many Protestants) did absolutely nothing to oppose or prevent this genocide. I am not suggesting that individual believers didn’t act on behalf of the Jews. I am saying that the official positions of the Church supported this tragedy. The pure evil carried out by the Nazis was partly the result of the violence preached by the Church against Jews – something that has been going on for hundreds of years. Just check the record. It’s all there.
3 – Syncretism. Yes, you’re right. There are a lot of believers who are beginning to question the foundations. There are many who are standing up for biblical truth. But name a single denomination that embraces the God of Israel’s instructions for living. There aren’t any. Individuals, yes. Official organizations within Christianity, sadly no. As far as most official views are concerned (and the majority of believers), Christians are under “grace” and the “law” no longer applies. This is only a form of replacement theology. Law has been replaced by grace. In the last year we have looked at verse after verse in the English Bible that has been deliberately mistranslated in order to support this view. If the vast majority of English Bibles support this, and the vast majority of readers of English Bibles don’t know the difference, is it any surprise that Christians believe they don’t have to follow torah? Once again, return to the historical record. By 150AD, the church fathers were already suggesting that the Old Testament was no longer essential for an understanding of grace. By 350AD, the Church issued edicts requiring believers to deny the Sabbath, the Torah, circumcision and all Jewish festivals. When I say that Christianity was invented in the 2nd century, I mean that there was a deliberate attempt to shift the basis of faith away from its Jewish roots toward a Greek-based philosophical position. I can show you in doctrine after doctrine that the basis of Christian belief is Greek metaphysics, not Hebrew Scripture. But I hardly need to go through that exercise. Look at the Church today. Does it look anything like a Jewish synagogue? Does it work the way it is described in Acts? Do its members have the same worldview as the first century believers? No. So, how did that happen?
Finally, your comment that Jesus came to fulfill the law reveals that you also hold a replacement theology. This common view suggests that the law is no longer applicable because it was “finished” in Christ. But this is not a Hebrew view of the words used by Yeshua. The Hebrew view is that he “filled up” (the literal meaning) the law, that is, he provided the complete picture of what it means to serve God. This is not the END of the law. It is the full picture of God’s instructions. They are not thereby replaced. They are now seen for their full intent – a life given completely to God’s service according to God’s instructions. Yeshua was Torah observant. If not, He could never have been the sacrificial lamb. We are instructed to copy Him. Does that suddenly mean we can throw out everything about how He lived and still claim to follow Him? Only if we sever the connection between Torah and obedience.
You’re almost right. Law doesn’t lead to eternal life. Law doesn’t save. But it was never intended to save. It was intended to guide us about how to live AFTER we were redeemed in order that we would be distinctively different in the world and therefore attract others to the Father. Christ did die to give you freedom, but not freedom from God’s instructions about how to live. That would be crazy. Do you think Jesus died so that I can ignore everything God wants me to know about living? You problem here is the (typical) confusion about law and grace. We have looked at this over and over in Today’s Word verses. Try searching the website for “law” and see what you find. Maybe it will help clear this up.
Sorry for such a long reply, but I want to help if I can.
I keep hearing many Christians say Galatians (and other of Paul’s Epistles!) is [are] an example of how we’re not under Torah – the Law….but if you read WHO Paul was talking too throughout – he was exhorting NEW Believers in Yeshua to follow the Torah! Not the other way around.
Who were the New Believers Paul preached too? GENTILES. Therefore, they did not know Torah – the Law of Yaweh. So, once they were believers – they were being taught the Law/Torah. Paul splits and goes to preach elsewhere….gets reports various people are struggling…then writes letters to them exhorting them to REMEMBER the Gospel exactly as it was preached to them and not to fall for another one. Or he exhorts them to let no one (their old pagan buddies) judge them in the days they keep holy, or the Feasts they keep…and again, these Scriptures are taught to mean the EXACT OPPOSITE of what Paul was saying!
It makes me see red when I realise just how many years I had been fed lies.
I pray YHWH opens more eyes:)…
even so…come Yeshua:)!
brother Skip.. I’ve been keeping this “under my hat” for some time. I would like to share this concerning “Israel”. Your comments (good,bad even ugly!) are all welcome.. Please consider also the methods of our Teacher. He does not change. It’s a bit long- I apologize for the length, but Israel is so key to our understanding. Yes, foundational. Just to say, I cannot speak for anyone other than myself, but I believe the Jews to be the chosen people of YHWH. They always have been and always will be. In no wise is “the church” a replacement for Israel. We are grafted into them, not they into us (Gentiles). I also believe their need of a Savior to be every bit as great as my own. Our Bible does not belong to them, it does not belong to the Gentiles- it is G-d’s message of redemption and restoration to all (whosoever will) who believe. Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved is a message to “as many as will receive Him.” I believe also G-d is far from finished with the nation of Israel. There are things yet to be and yet to be revealed. Messiah has accomplished His first advent. Birth,life,death,burial,resurrection,ascension. Done. Round 1.
But wait!- there’s more! lol! The signs were there during his birth. The wise men saw the star, they left the safety and comfort of their homes and they sought Him out. And as it pleased the Father, He allowed them to approach and to worship Him. We have better than a star, we have G-d’s promise- “if you seek for me with all your heart, you will find me” (Deuteronomy 4.29)
Israel the Revealer
Shema, O Israel, the LORD our G-d is One
Yisra’el (yis-raw-ale’)
he will rule as God; Jisrael, a symbolical name of Jacob; also (typically) of his posterity: –Israel.
Israel-One who was, and is, and is to come.
One who prevails with God or Let God prevail
Israel- the living LORD of earth and heaven.
Israel (who was/is/is to come) reveals both the physical and the spiritual person of G-d
Israel (who was/is/is to come) reveals both the physical and the spiritual people (chozim-chosen) of G-d
Israel (who was/is/is to come) reveals both the physical and the spiritual place of G-d
Israel (who was/is/is to come) reveals both the physical and the spiritual possession of G-d
Israel (who was/is/is to come) reveals both the physical and the spiritual portrayal of God’s passion
Israel (who was/is/is to come) reveals both the physical and the spiritual promise of G-d
Israel (who was/is/is to come) reveals both the physical and the spiritual prophecy of G-d
Israel (who was/is/is to come) reveals both the physical and the spiritual paradox of G-d
Israel (who was/is/is to come) reveals both the physical and the spiritual paradigm of G-d
Israel (who was/is/is to come) reveals both the physical and the spiritual purpose of G-d
Israel (who was/is/is to come) reveals both the physical and the spiritual passion of G-d
The nations will know…when, before their eyes, I am set apart through you to be regarded as holy (Ezekiel 36:23).
Israel is God’s picture book, teaching the world that He exists and is supreme over all he has created. Israel is also God’s picture book, graphically displaying his purpose for all mankind. God invites anyone to open His book and understand his ways. We learn from the portrait of Israel that God is a just and righteous God who wants us to order society according to his Torah. If we do, there will be blessing; if not, there will be a curse. The picture book of Israel also teaches us about sowing and reaping, righteous courts, and accountable leaders. In the days of King David and during the early reign of King Shlomo (Solomon), we see a glorious foreshadowing of God’s ultimate Kingdom on earth.
The nation of Israel also provides a picture of God’s long-suffering love. Centuries pass and Israel is faithfully restored to her Land in fulfillment of prophecy. Israel’s feasts are pictures too. Passover is a picture of God’s deliverance.
Israel is not God’s only picture book. We are also a picture book. The Scriptures call this being a “witness.” What kind of a picture book are we?
2 Corinthians 2.3 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
today I will…be a true witness, a picture of God’s grace and righteousness.
Israel
a person
Genesis 32:28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, [a] because you have struggled with G-d and with men and have overcome.” NIV
a people
Be merciful, O LORD, unto thy people Israel, whom thou hast redeemed, Deuteronomy 21:8
a place Aliyah (Hebrew: עלייה, “ascent” or “going up”) is Jewish immigration to the Land of Israel
Aliyah means “ascent.” To migrate to Israel — to make aliyah — means to come from a low place and to “go up.” (from the miry clay to a rock?)
You are to come to the place where ADONAI your God will put his name….which is where he will live (Deuteronomy 12:5).
a possession For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever. Genesis 13:15
a prophecy That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee. Deuteronomy 30.3
a region
a race
a religion
a relationship
a reality physical, geographical,political,spiritual
a man
a miracle
a message
God always has a way of escape, so that his covenant people may endure.
Shabbat shalom, kol Israel!
Thank you Skip,
Based upon my very emotional realization of the living God at age 21 you are right on target. Without any church attendance and armed only with a hand-sized Gideon bible from High School, God met me when I called out in desperation. I’m convinced He was the God of the old testament, and the more I learn in the traditional Christian church the more convinced I become. My book, LIFE IS SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED, reflects the wonderful God I met 57 years ago.
Bill Cummins
I continue to think through these same issues and would like to make two enquires of you Skip:
1) If, as you state above, a Christian without Torah is a hypocrite then are you saying that everyone who places faith in Jesus but does not practice Torah (in some approximation to your interpretation of how that should be done) is a hypocrite? This would include people such as Billy Graham and Mother Teresa. Is that what you are saying?
2) Should people who place their faith in Jesus have anything to do with any fellowship of believers that does not practice Torah (in some approximation to your interpretation of how that should be done)? If believers who do not observe Torah according to your interpretation are: “…ignorant…insipid, vacuous, (and) frantic” that would lead me to conclude that you are stating that pastors and staff in churches who do not observe Torah according to your interpretation are a waste of resources (our time and money) because of the end product they are producing. That doesn’t sound like a position you would take but it is what I hear you saying.
My wife and I haven’t been to our former church in well over a year. One of the reasons for that is seeing the huge difference between how the congregation of God is supposed to exist (priorities, allocation of resources, leadership) vs. what closely resembes the running of the corporations in which I have worked for so long. Every pastor sees these things in the church at large but sees their own congregation as an exception.
Thanks for your considered response. Let me clarify. In the IDEAL, every Christian would recognize the adoption into the commonwealth of Israel and become a living extension of God’s chosen people in faith and practice. But we don’t live in the ideal world, as you clearly pointed out. So, there are plenty of sincere, faithful, devoted, God-fearing (and used by God) believers who no longer see or practice their true inheritance as part of God’s chosen people. This is truly a sad state of affairs since it means that they are missing out on a big part of what God had planned for His people. However, as you point out, this does not mean that they aren’t used by God, loved by God and valuable to God. God uses whatever we give Him to use. It’s just that our perception of the relationship between the “church” and Israel is so clouded by centuries of misinformation and errant theology that we no longer experience the full picture. In the IDEAL sense, a Christian who wishes to honor the Lord but does so without Torah is really an UNINTENTIONAL hypocrite since he claims to follow God but, at the same time, doesn’t live according to God’s instructions. Of course, by far the vast majority of these great and wonderful people don’t even realize this is happening. They believe what the church has been teaching for 1800 years. They just haven’t read the text without the filters of Greek philosophy. They haven’t recognized the Jewish-ness of the authors. So, what I am saying is that there is a tragic disconnect between the church and its true heritage and many of us have become victims of this disconnect. We are in reality living in opposition to the truth, but we don’t realize we are.
As for point #2, the existing population of sincere believers is filled with a mixture of those who see their heritage and embrace it, who are beginning to see that there is more than they thought and who still don’t see it but nevertheless fear the Lord and desire to serve Him. Why would anyone who loves God want to exclude any of these people? We all belong together, just as believers belonged together in the first century. My comment about “ignorant, insipid, vacuous and frantic” is not about any particular individual. It is only to point out that once Christians embrace a replacement theology, certain other conclusions follow. Replacement theology teaches that the Church (capital C) replaced disobedient Israel. The Church is the new Israel, recipient of God’s promises, exclusive vehicle of God’s redemptive plan and holder of God’s dispensation of grace. In this view, grace replaces law, Christians replace Jews and the God of Mankind replaces the nationalistic God of Israel.
Now, most Christians don’t even realize that their seminaries and church leaders hold this view. In fact, it is almost never discussed. But when the Church believes that they have succeeded Israel, lots of other things begin to happen, like, for example, a turn away from the Old Testament to a theology generated mostly from the New Testament. In fact, the idea of a separation of the testaments is part of this whole shift. As I said, most believers don’t even know this shift occurred. They go right on worshipping and living according to the teaching of their pastors, who, by the way, have also been taught replacement theology. What they do notice is that today’s church doesn’t look like the church of Acts. They are told that this is because the church of Acts was only for the introduction of Christianity. But then they look at the life of Jesus, and something else doesn’t seem to add up. Jesus obeys the Torah. We are asked to be like Him, but we are told we don’t have to follow all those rules. Things get confusing. Worship loses its power. The Church begins to look a lot more like a corporation than like a house of prayer. Whether it is ignorance, denial or rejection, the results seem to be the same. The Church loses its distinctiveness from the world. Christians pine for the “good old days” when there were Christian moral in evidence in the culture, but no matter how hard they try, the culture keeps slipping toward self-destruction. And Christianity as a religion begins to take on the same look as the culture itself.
In the meanwhile, Israel maintains its distinctiveness as a culture and a religion. But it shows no affiliation with Christianity because Christianity has cut itself loose from its own heritage. So, a believer in the Messiah Yeshua (a “christian”) without a culture of distinctiveness (Torah) begins to look just like everyone else in the world. He may have a moral imperative but he has no community difference. And there are plenty of morally upright people in the culture without a belief in God. So, where is the message of transformation?
Am I saying that participation in a congregation that does not follow Torah is a waste. Of course not. God calls us to His own design. Some will be called to Ninevah, some will be called to Jerusalem. Some are prophets. Some are planters. We must go where God calls for it is His determination of our usefulness that matters. I am saying, however, that assemblies who refuse to acknowledge God’s greater plan put the individual believer in serious jeopardy. It is not easy to maintain the commonwealth connection alone. It is very difficult when the prevailing authorities are blind to the commonwealth. I prefer to stay away from groups that will not consider rethinking this theology. But I will go anywhere God calls me to go to teach the truth. I have chosen to put my resources into the hands of those who directly meet the needs of those I know to be near to God’s heart – the poor, the widows, the orphans and the strangers. That means I don’t put money into building funds. But that’s only me. Each one of us is responsible to God for what we know.
It is a sad fact that many, many wonderful believers have been mislead by a long history of sometimes deliberate but often merely accumulated mistaken direction. Imagine how powerful the Church could have been if it had a belief structure AND a distinctive culture. Then it would have been called the KINGDOM of God. But that isn’t what happened, so now we have to deal with what is. It is my firm conviction that there are thousands of devoted men and women who wish to serve the Lord but remain victims of a long history of misdirection. It is my hope that an awakening will come, and Israel will be jealous to see their God’s hand in the lives of those who live His word.
Skip – please define your terms, AGAIN…what does it mean for a Christian to follow Torah?
Again – you are assuming that most protestant churches practice replacement theology. They don’t.
What about all the premill/dispensationalists?
And when you say the Church – the TRUE church is made up of dead people who have been brought to life with Christ and who will live with him eternally…- jews….pagans….it doesn’t matter their former cultural/religious background – God has chosen a remnant from all the peoples. they make up the church – invisible for now…but whose name are written in the book of life.
Maria
Brother Skip and dear brothers and sisters, please consider the following (from John 14.26)-
“But when the Father sends the Advocate as my representative—that is, the Holy Spirit—he will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you.”
I dont wan’t you to miss this. “He will teach you.” That’s right! You (sir or ma’m) have a personal trainer residing within you. “Don’t you know that you yourselves are God’s temple and that God’s Spirit lives in you”? (I Corinthians 3.16)
This is mondo- excellent because do I ever need instruction. As a matter of (sad) fact John 15.15 states: “without Me you can do nothing.” This includes the preacher, the poet, the plumber, the painter, the prince, and the pauper. Nothing.
Let’s make some connections.. The disciples/Talmudim/learners called Him/Jesus/Rabboni/Master Teacher. We (all) are taught from Torah which means “instruction”. The Bible- “Basic-Instructions-Before-Leaving-Earth. We each have a “personal trainer” living and residing within us,who will help us to “remember” His words and how to apply them to each situation that may arise in our everday living. (Is this too simple?) – I dunno.. maybe that’s the problem? Then again I all of a sudden “remember”- (hey, where did that come from?) something ‘written’ in the Book about the “simplicity in Christ”. “But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.” (2 Corinthians 11.3)
Three words people. “It is written.” or you could use- “what saith the Scripture.” That would do nicely also. Don’t like “Bible-thumpers?” I love em’! This is what I need! I love the word of G-d and I love the words of G-d! Think three seconds about this.. (don’t worry- it won’t take three seconds..) Where would you be without the written word of G-d? The written word reveals the Living Word. The word of G-d contain the wisdom of G-d. The word of G-d contains the will of G-d. The word of G-d contains the ways of G-d.
Maybe I’ll be the first on this website to offer a (pagan?) new year’s resolution. In 2010, my “resolve” (my will?) will be to read, meditate, study,share the bread, the wine, the milk, the meat, the honey found contained with a very special plumb-bob/two-edged sword/good seed sometimes referred to as the Bible.
Brother Skip.. I love you dearly and you have taught me (fer sure!)- the Bible is an absolute gold mine when you learn to dig with a Hebrew shovel. I have been amazed and transformed from what you have written.
“The church” is the bride of Christ. (ask me how I know this..) He has said.. (there it is again.. just can’t seem to get away from it- “it is written”), “I will build my church.” Matthew 16:13-26.
When G-d sets Himself to do something, I suggest we “get out of the way” or get run over, cause it is goin’ to happen.. Now we can either get on board with this program and work with Him in this “build-a-bride” thing, sit on the sidelines and watch it all happen or flat out work against it. (I don’t suggest this -very unwise-third course of action).
You want to talk about what’s wrong and you’ll have plenty (of nothin’) to talk about. There is no shortage of “wrong answers”. (Indulge me.. one plus one equals three, er,four,er,five,er,six.. ad nauseum.) You wanna fix something that’s messed up we’ll need a mirror (another symbol of Scripture) a good light- (another symbol of Scripture and lots of prayer.
If you would like to teach according to our need- then teach us to pray. Do we ever need this! Yes, please. You recently mentioned over twenty Hebrew words for prayer. I’m ready to receive! -and hungry too! YHWH promised- “open your mouth wide and I will fill it!” (Psalm 81.10)
The word of G-d- delicious and nutritious!
Dear Maria,
It sounds as though you are angry with a position that the Lord has actually formed to reconcile the house of God with one another. God’s desire is to build His Temple with all the elements He has designed and since we are the temple of the Holy Ghost, and He created all things, we are to come under subjection to His revealed will and purpose. We are, as His people, commissioned to have the mind of Christ and to test the spirits and to prove Him through His Word. How do we as a nation of kings and priests know how to best serve the One who died for us? I would submit it is through following Him as our Supreme example. Was Jesus an obedient Son as described in the Bible? If so, what did He obey? The NT teachings…well I would say yes as long as they are in alignment with the OT, but let’s understand what was taught in the early Church. Just a slight history lesson will provide insight into the integration of man’s view of Torah,in opposition to the teaching that even Paul declared to be the “good”ness of the law in Romans 7:12,13,16,18,22. And much of the slanted interpretation in the famous book of Galatians has caused a greater divide in the understanding of our FREEDOM to show our love and devotion to the Lord by obeying His Word. We have been called to grow in our knowledge of Him and to a deeper level than some want to understand, simply because it is contrary to the culture modern “evolved” Christianity promotes today. It is apparent somehow we have not “progressed”, and we should be questioning this as brother Skip did in this post. I am amazed how this issue is interestingly similar to the Pharisaical attitudes Jesus encountered as He expressed His freedom to love and serve God as the fulfillment of the LAW of LOVE. I can appreciate your thoughts and your need for clarification, however, many of us have sensed for a long time the contradictory sermons pertaining to things missing or hidden from the teachings of our Lord. We were taught an incongruent theology. We are told to follow Christ, but we are NOT told how Torah observant He was. We are told about all the miracles and all the prophetic admonitions, but the details of how He lived His life in total subjection to the prescribed manner of His Father is mysteriously left out. I ask, WHY?When I first came into relationship with the Lord, I could not understand why anyone taught or preached from the OT if all that had been done away with. But I will hurry on to add that there were increasing instances where the church/denominational teachings did not match up within the totality of the Scriptures. Someone was contradicting themselves and I knew it was NOT God, the author! I am, nowhere near the mind of many of the seekers and contributors within this community, but one thing we all have in common is the hunger and thirst for the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Give us Jesus, or we die! The Messiah is come and we want to know Him in His fullness! Yeshua is alive and well and living in us! Bless you dear sister as you continue to learn more about our wonderful Savior.
Shalom,
Skip …. this is a badly needed message for many of G_D’s children! Please stay the course and may the message be heard and embraced!
Hi Mary – thanks for your thoughtful reply.
I disagree with how you interpret the Bible. I believe that we should default FIRST to what Jesus says explicitly about the OT and not impose an OT hermaneutic on the NT. Then we should secondly default to what the apostles say about the OT since they have rec’d the HS from Jesus. Jesus expressly said that the HS would teach them all things. So we should trust the entire NT. NT trumps OT when there are contradictions.
Blessings,
Maria
So, I get to chime in once more.
No author of the new testament documents, including the words of Yeshua, would endorse such a hermeneutic. Why? Because when they wrote, there was no new testament compilation as canon. They had only the Tanakh. That was the Bible. All of their authority came from that sacred text, not from their own writings. To suggest that we “default” to the New Testament is to accept a hermeneutic based on a “canonical” theology, i.e., a canon based on what the church says about the canon. Please look at Lee McDonald, The Biblical Canon, for a full discussion of this issue.
On a less scholarly level, if every author of the New Testament is Jewish, by birth or choice, and every author uses the Tanakh as the source of all teaching, and Jesus Himself continuously cites the Tanakh as God’s Word, are we supposed to simply ignore all this by placing the words about the Word on a level higher than the very source these men cite? The suggestion that we have the Holy Spirit to guide us is, unfortunately, not very helpful since great heresies have been propagated by those who claimed to be led by the Spirit. We need more than this if we are going to be true to the God who gave His word. It is quite clear that Yeshua and all the other new testament men relied explicitly on Hebrew Scripture as their final authority. Do we have the right, might I say arrogance, to decide that we know better than they did? Who empowered us to throw away their source as no longer relevant? Actually, I can tell you who gave us the power to do that. It was the official Church of the Roman Empire by edict, council and creed. But you won’t find that sort of blatant disregard for the Tanakh in the source documents.
Thank you Skip for the prompt reply on this matter!
If we do not accept the contiguous and unbroken sanctity of Holy Scripture (Genesis to Revelation) it is simply impossible to understand The Word as it was given to us. As such the only default we can be sure of is the precept upon precept convention. A convention which tests and proofs teachings/doctrine directly against the inspired revelation given to us.
The audacity/mistake of the Roman Church … and others … in developing theology, halakha, etc. with wanton disregard for the foundation of The Word (The pre-Messianic Revelation), ultimately led to the formation of (as Skip accurately declares) a “new religion”. A religion not accurately reflective of the relationship between ELOHIM and the chosen people Yisrael!
I wish we could simply stop this “Old Testament” versus “New Testament” construct. “The Word” is not new or old …. it is Yeshua … Who is the same in the beginning, today and forever … Timeless!
Hi Maria,
I would agree with you except for the fact that there is no contradiction with God. I am not saying the Scriptures do not appear to be contradictory…the error is with the interpretation of the men, basically the expositors…that oftentimes includes us, sad to say. Thank Him for mercy and grace. Ask Him for His Truth, Sister. Inquiring minds want to know!
James 1:17Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Maria.. I would like to most respectfully point out there are no contradictions in all of Scripture – New and Old- it is all one Book. The unity of Scripture is another indication to us of its inspiration by G-d. The master theme of the book is: “Behold the lamb of G-d which taketh away the sin of the world.” The passover lamb of the Exodus is the same “sacrificial Lamb” of the New. Go ahead and “fast-forward” to the book of Revelation- we get to see how it all ends! Glory to the Lamb who was slain and has redeemed us unto G-d by His blood! There is a scarlet thread binding this book together. One LORD, one faith, one baptism, one Spirit.. -Shema, O Israel, the LORD our G-d is ONE!
Wow! I think of the T-Shirt slogan, “The Truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off” Just remember there are many types of ground to be sown. We all choose which type we are.
We are quite capable of speaking the truth, but speaking the truth in love? Woah.. we sure do need some help with this! lol! Abba’s blessing to all.. “ain’t G-d good!!”
If I could make a correction in the translations of the New Testament, it would be to take out the word “church” and put in the word “eclessia” or a more realistically descriptive word for “the growth or sect of Hebraic belief in Yeshua HaMashiach and His teachings and works”.
If this word “church” would be eliminated from our speech we may be able to communicate our thoughts better. But if we continue to use the word it is showing we are still giving the earthly “empire” a place of importance in our hearts and minds, in other words we are not really free of it’s influence.
A great point. In fact, I wrote quite a bit about this over a year ago. It is posted here. My suggestion is that we substitute the Hebrew expression behind ekklesia, and avoid even more confusion about the way ekklesia is used in Greek. Church comes from the German translation of this Greek word, providing yet another layer of misunderstanding.
Hear! Hear! Antoinette, I second your enlighted and wise observation. Just in what part of a genuine Hebraic worldview does a word like ‘church’ play? Each one of us must faithfully [thru our actions] reply and dare to be setapart in the process.
Hi again. Skip – thanks for taking the time to address my objections. You raise a lot of good points. I don’t deny that horrid things have been done by the Church. I didn’t realize that some have said that Hitler was influenced by M Luther. Regardless, to say that the Church or Christians carried out the Holocaust is not true. Hitler was NOT a Christian.
I think your worldview is both Hebrew-centric and feminist-centric. Everyone is entitled to their pre-suppositions. But they need to be flushed out and acknowledged.
I believe that God sovereignly chose for Christ to be born at a time when the world was dominated by a Greek World View overlaid on a Roman ruled empire. I don’t think that was a mistake.
I will close with Galatians 3:28 where Paul reminds the believers there that There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for (they) are all one in Christ.
I appreciate this forum, because it stretches me and allows me to think through what I believe.
PS: Piper is my favorite preacher. I listen to him weekly by podcast. And I worship in a Reformed Presbyterian Church. My steady diet also includes Mark Dever, Tim Keller, Matt Chandler, Ravi Zacharias and DA Carson.
Keep on reading and thinking. You might want to look at some of the books I referenced in our discussion. I like Carson and his edited book on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament is excellent. Piper is well liked but I think he is way off base on the issue of women. Tim Keller is a good man. I have spent time with him at various retreats. Never met Ravi but he is in line with my friend, Os Guinness.
Can I suggest that you begin to listen to the mp3’s from Bob Gorelik (www.eshavbooks.org) so that you can see the “other” side of this Hebrew view?
As for Hitler, of course he was a demonic man, but there is no question at all that Christian theology was used by him and others for centuries of anti-semitism. This is a LONG history, all the way back to 150AD. We have a great deal to re-think.
Maria,
“NT” over “OT”? I can’t go with that, because the Greek that the “NT” comes wrapped in is incompetent to relay the meanings of so many Hebrew concepts that are quoted from the “OT” and are thus not underlying so many people’s understanding of their faith. OK, take that word “faith”. Paul used it more than once, think Romans 1:17 and Galatians 3:11 where he quotes from a certain “OT” prophet. Study closely what that prophet was saying, then come back to Paul and you will see that the Greek with its deficient vocabulary misrepresents Paul. Just one small, but enormously important, example.
Oh, and in Greek there is no way to write the proper name of the Messiah. Not good.
No, we have to go back first to the Tanakh and study it scrupulously, then bring that framework of understanding to the Apostolic Commentary (oops, “NT”). Like the Messiah and the apostles did. (BTW, when ever did the Almighty make a “New” Covenant with the Gentiles? He only made a kairos i.e. “Renewed” Covenant with Israel.)
As a famous Jewish writer said: “You have the Pentateuch. Everything else is commentary.” Which includes the Prophets, the Writings, and the Apostolic Commentary.
Why not consider a God that transcends both the Hebrew-centric worldview and the Greek metaphysical worldview – but still uses and includes aspects of both? Aren’t there levels of inclusion of both that enrichen God’s Word to us while still humbling us to bow to a God, that though He chooses to communicate to us by means of cultural and historical contexts, is not in any way limited by them? To this end, I am able to take both for what they are and still permit God to be more than either. If this were not the case, then why would God sovereignly choose to superintend the preservation of His Word, canonical or otherwise, by means of giving us the Greek NT and having Christ live in the “fullness of time”, which as Maria states was “a world dominated by a Greek worldview overlaid by the rule of a Roman Empire?” Was it a mistake that we should receive a Greek NT or were the early church fathers so powerful in their own agendas and distorted anti-semitism, that what was ultimately preserved for us was something that God simply could not prevent? Were we supposed to have the book of Revelation in Hebrew but God simply could not make it so? Or is this tension somehow healthy?
Could it be that our desire to pull to one extreme or the other, i.e. a Hebrew-centered worldview or a Greek worldview is something that unnecessarily divides more than unites when what is truly at stake is something far greater – like the character and integrity of the gospel itself?
My own view of Scriptures – or what I long it to be but find it difficult to be no matter what human culture or historical time-frame I share in – is that of one that I would describe not as Hebrew-centric nor Greek-centric but rather Theo-centric. Piper describing Edwards calls it a “God Entranced Vision of All Things.” That God chose to reveal Himself through the nation, culture and language of the Hebrew world enriches my soul and challenges my walk with God. I neither diminish God’s purposes through the Jewish nation nor His Chosen People…But He is God first and not a Jewish God nor a Greek God nor an American God. He is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob – He defines Himself (“I Am”) and is not defined by these patriarchs. I have nothing that informs me that the Garden of Eden was Jewish nor that heaven will be Jewish. It may be described by Jewish authors in a grammatical and historical context that is Jewish and for the Jewish reader first but that did not and does not make God Jewish. He chose the Jews not because of their intrinsic greatness or value but so that He could manifest His power and glory through them (a witness of Himself to the nations). My Bible tells me that God does not play “favorites” (Acts 10:34-35). God is an equal opportunity offender. All have sinned; all fall short; all are worthy of the infinite guilt of sin. Heaven isn’t reserved for just the well-informed nor those particularly “enlightened.” Entrance requires child-like faith. Living out the Christian walk requires this same child-like faith. It is living as Christ-followers by becoming Berean like students of the Word and under the tutelage of the Spirit of God. We are God confident; not self-confident. We trust God; not man. We aren’t speaking of only a Jewish gospel but an eternal gospel which proclaims that we should “fear God…and worship Him.” (Rev 14:6-7)(Matt 4:10). This is a gospel that begins with God and ends with God and by His grace, I find my place, purpose and satisfaction within His framework for all of creation and as Piper says (who I also admire), and for my everlasting enjoyment.
Again, I love Skip’s ministry and he daily challenges me in my faith, in my walk with the Lord and in the reading of God’s Word. I tremendously admire and love Skip not only for his profound insights but probably even more so for his large heart. I want to read and know more, as we all do, with the idea of becoming more informed and “conformed to the image of Christ.” The Hebrew-centered view as a framework for knowing and discovering God’s truth, and then more importantly, living it is rich and deep and challenging. But it is one part to both the simplicity and complexity of a life that is supremely Christ-centered and therefore, God exalting.
My concern with the present “Christian” culture or the “church” (however you want to define those terms) is that it has become so full of itself that it has lost God’s presence and power. It has exalted itself above the name and Word of God (Ps 138:2). The gospel has become a gospel where man is worshiped and the sinner is honored and therefore, is fundamentally idolatrous. Unlike the prophet’s proclamation: “May He increase and I decrease” we seem to be saying “May I increase and He will somehow benefit by my increase.” Cannot be full of itself and full of God at the same time. My fear has less to do with how Christ-followers have lost their way in how to please God after salvation (by following Torah in obedience to being Christ-like) and more to do with whether they ever received the true gospel of Christ itself through the preaching and so-called living out of the “faith” that has been received and adopted by so many these days. Today’s gospel is SO self-centered, self-determinative, self-honoring that I am afraid of a far greater Satanic influence than just losing our way from the Hebraic view of the world…but rather, I wonder if we have received and might be proclaiming something more along the lines of something that began with the deception of Eve in the Garden, i.e. “another Jesus, another gospel, another spirit” even as Paul warned about in II Cor 11:3-4? Seems to me that the gospel is worth drawing lines over…the rest seems to be more about how we please and obey God once saved? The former is worth arguing over; the latter is worth exploring further which I continue to do.
David, you wrote “Seems to me that the gospel is worth drawing lines over…the rest seems to be more about how we please and obey God once saved?”. I think you have got it exactly.
The Torah was never about salvation – salvation comes about through actively seeking and maintaining a relationship with and trusting the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob i.e. faith. It was this way from the very beginning.
Torah gives us the practical instructions about how to live in relationship to one another and to our Father in a way that honours and glorifies Him.
Remember, He brought us out of Egypt before He took us to the mountain to give us the Teaching and Instructions. Relationship comes first, then we learn obedience, just like with our own children. Obedience is learned, not natural. Obedience results in blessings (but they are not the reason for obedience – it has to come from a heart of love). Disobedience brings negative consequences (witness Adam and Eve, as Skip so eloquently points out in his series on Genesis).
God puts us in families with relationships to teach us about our relationship with Him. We’ve just forgotten the lessons because we’ve been steeped in a world view that is foreign to the language and culture with which He has chosen to reveal Himself.
It is up to each of us to study His Word (ALL of it) and learn how it applies to our lives (or rather, how to apply our lives to His Word). As Paul (or, to call him by his Jewish name and title, Rav. Shaul) wrote to the Philippians, “Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.” (Phil 2:12-13).
Relationship comes first, then we learn obedience. Amen, brother Rodney.. “relationship”.
Hebrews 9:14 “How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?”
..and the blood of Jesus/Messiah G-d the Son cleanses from all sin.
1 Peter 1.18- AMP- You must know (recognize) that you were redeemed (ransomed) from the useless (fruitless) way of living inherited by tradition from [your] forefathers, not with corruptible things [such as] silver and gold, (19) But [you were purchased] with the precious blood of Christ (the Messiah), like that of a [sacrificial] lamb without blemish or spot.
What can “wash away” my sin? nothing but the blood of Jesus. What can make me whole again? nothing but the blood of Jesus. Oh, precious is the flow- that makes me “white as snow”. No other fount I know.. nothing but the blood of Jesus.
Come now, and let us reason together, said יְהוָ֑ה: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. (Isaiah 1.18)
1 John 1:7 (Amplified Bible) Relationship: with our G-d and with each other – is it possible?
7But if we [really] are living and walking in the Light, as He [Himself] is in the Light, we have [true, unbroken] fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus/Messiah/G-d/ the Logos Incarnate/the Word made flesh- cleanses -καθαριζει verb – present active indicative- (removes) us from all sin and guilt [keeps us cleansed from sin in all its forms and manifestations].
Today/now.. -come to us- abide with us, our LORD Emmanuel/עִמָּנוּאֵל. Amen.
brother David.. thank you for so eloquently expressing our oneness or “unity”, in Christ. I have been poorly attempting to communicate the message to (all)- “it’s not either/or it’s both!” Ruth (a Moabite/half-breed) was the bride of Boaz (her kinsman-redeemer). We (the church/bride/chosen) “together” are Ruth. For G-d so loved the world.. (very inclusive). If any man (any man) be “in Christ”, he/she is a new creation. “There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Galatians 3.28)
“Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brothers to dwell together in unity!” (Psalm 133.1)
G-d is an equal opportunity offender!- (lol!) -excellent! (The truth often..ouch!)
David, I face most of your questions, at least in prototype, in a paper that I have written called “What Happened to the Tetragrammaton?”, a report on some detective work I did. It will be available for download in the next few days on http://www.setapartpeople.com, or if you care to pass on your e-mail address to me via Skip, I’ll happily e-mail it to you. I won’t even try to summarise it here. One or two responses though: (i) “Why not consider a G_d…?” – that in itself is a statement of a philosophical viewpoint which is inappropriate to the service of the One Who stated the Sh’ma, Deut 6v4. Of course my Mighty One transcends and uses every worldview you could propose – but some of them are futile for the purpose of getting to know Him. Why? Have a look at
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of Elohim is revealed from heaven against all wickedness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
Rom 1:19 because that which is known of Elohim is manifest among them, for Elohim has manifested it to them.
Vs 19 supports your perspective, but vs 18 points out the weakness in it: men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness. Thus it is essential to have propositional revelation, black on white, as Francis Schaeffer so clearly understood, so that there can be no arguing about what is righteousness and what is unrighteousness. This the Almighty gave – propositionally, I repeat – at Sinai. Carved in stone. In Hebrew. Not in Greek. His choice, not mine.
It behoves us to get to grips with that propositional revelation with all our heart, and with all our being, and with all our might. And those Words which He commanded us that day shall be in our hearts.
Oh dear, I see I’ve just quoted the definition of “loving Him”.
Rely on a wishy-washy airy-fairy generalised exalted concept of meta-revelation, and you’ll miss out on a great deal of the nitty-gritty of the emunah-triangle. Of growth. Of strength.
David, you ask “Was it a mistake that we should receive a Greek NT?” No, it was a rebuke, a punishment, an opportunity for repentance. In my paper mentioned above I say after quoting from Lamentations 5:
To those who say with horror Surely the Almighty would never let His Name be laid waste, therefore this cannot be His true Name I reply Neither did the Jews imagine that the Almighty could ever let Mount Zion be laid waste, yet He did, and indeed He has said He has fixed His Name on Mount Zion so we in turn should not be taken by surprise. The absence of His Name from the AC Greek is a reproach to us and our fathers. Existentially people will have to admit, through the centuries to Mitsrayim [they] have given a hand; to Ashshur, to be satisfied with bread – they have chosen the “prudent” worldly-wise course and repudiated the claim of YHWH to be their Mighty One. And this then has been reflected in the texts that teach them of their mighty one whom they have chosen.
And I have to go further, and say that not only could the Almighty allow Mount Zion to be laid waste, but He could allow the very Temple, the Hekal, to be ruined as was the earlier place of worship at Shiloh – for His Name’s sake (He will not allow His Name to be associated interminably with abominations, flagrant defiance of His commandments), as He says through Jeremiah in Chapter 7.
David, that “eternal gospel” that you correctly bring up… Matt 4:10 is Messiah quoting from Deut 6:13. Rev 14: 6-7 cannot be cut loose from Rev 14:12 which describes how to fear and worship the Almighty: Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Elohim and the belief of יהושע . Taking us right back, again, to the Pentateuch.
You and I touch at many points – but where is your foundation in the Luke 6 sense? How constant will you stay?
This the Almighty gave – propositionally, I repeat – at Sinai. Carved in stone. In Hebrew. Not in Greek. His choice, not mine.
brother Basil- G-d gave again at Calvary. This time He gave His life’s blood. His choice..not mine. Did He die for the Jew? (yes) Did He die for the Gentile? (yes). Look at what was placed upon the mercy-seat once a year in the holy of holies, by the high priest on the day of atonement. Remember also, the veil, torn in two when the G-d/man breathed His last. Who loved me and gave Himself for me? “G-d will provide Himself a Lamb..”
Carl, in due time the Messiah died for the wicked, whether Jewish or Gentile; as did the Pesach lambs. But after that there was to be no separation – the Gentiles were to be absorbed into the Israelites as the Exodus progressed. A lot of Xtians, metaphorically, seem to say “I’ll just paint that lamb’s blood around my door, but I won’t obey this Exodus/covenant thing, I’ll just stay comfortably here in Egypt along with my unharmed firstborn.” So we need to be clear that He didn’t die so that Gentiles could stay Gentiles.
BTW, your last sentence is very ambiguous – I know it’s a quote from Gen 22:8, but see it in a closer translation: And Abraham said, “My son, Elohim does provide for Himself the lamb for a burnt offering.” The ambiguity is removed.
Greetings,
Two cents worth on Genesis 22:8 (see below)
ח וַיֹּאמֶר, אַבְרָהָם, אֱלֹהִים יִרְאֶה-לּוֹ הַשֶּׂה לְעֹלָה, בְּנִי; וַיֵּלְכוּ שְׁנֵיהֶם, יַחְדָּו
8 Vayomer Avraham Elohim yir’eh-lo haseh le’olah beni vayelchu shneihem yachdav.
Avraham said, “G-d will show the lamb for a burnt-offering, my son.” And the two of them went together.
Perhaps Skip might want to weigh in on how the verb expressing “showing” is being contextually used. I don’t typically like to read things into the text that aren’t there … but this phrase always has me thinking …. I can never get through it quickly! For me personally it seems that the deeper meaning just begs to be sought after! 🙂
There isn’t anything particularly important about Abraham’s use of the Hebrew verb ra’ah in this verse since it is the common verb for seeing something. However, the connection to verse 14 is important. I wrote about that earlier. https://skipmoen.com/2009/08/09/linguistically-challenged/
What we discover is that Abraham demonstrates a faith in God’s provision, and names God accordingly, but that faith is first a recognition that God “sees” what is required. While it is possible that all Abraham says is that he trusts God will show him the sacrifice at the appropriate time, his response in verse 14 demonstrates that he knew God to be one who is able to meet a need because God “sees” the need. In this case, faith is grounded in the steadfast conviction that God is aware of our lack – and is willing to do something about it that we cannot do on our own. Of course, the confirmation of this conviction occurs AFTER Abraham takes all the steps of obedience.
David – thanks for your fresh perspective. Be encouraged that there are those in the Church who see how far from the Gospel a lot of Christians have moved. The whole WWJD movement makes Jesus into a model to be followed. That is not the Gospel. The Gospel is What Did Jesus Do (WDJD)..that is GOOD news. Mike Horton in Christless Christianity explains many errors that are in the Church today. His follow up book – The Gospel-Driven Life (not the Torah-Driven Life) is his solution for getting back to the Gospel.
And to brother Basil – I don’t see any contradiction in how Paul in Romans 1:17 quotes Hab 2:4 We are considered righteous when we hold firm to, believe in rely on, stick to, base our life and our security on God’s promises – that is Biblical Faith.
And to all those who keep preaching a Torah-centered life – isn’t it important to make a distinction between Civil and Ceremonial Law that went with the Theocracy and Moral Law that was given at Sinai and that Jesus amplifies and that Paul says is written on men’s hearts whether pagan or believer? When you all just say the Torah – are you implying that we should live according to the former Jewish civil and ceremonial law?
Maria
Just a quick note. The Torah makes no distinction between civil, sacred or communal “law.” It is all instructions about how to live and since living includes all these areas, no differential is possible. The distinctions are man-made.
By the way, what does it mean to live a “Christ-centered life” if Yeshua Himself followed the full Torah. Are we wiser than the teacher, able to determine what He really didn’t have to do? Or are we called to be His “talmiydim”, His disciples, which in Hebrew means those who adopt the SAME life as the teacher.
Just a quick note. The Torah makes no distinction between civil, sacred or communal “law.” It is all instructions about how to live and since living includes all these areas, no differential is possible. The distinctions are man-made.
By the way, what does it mean to live a “Christ-centered life” if Yeshua Himself followed the full Torah. Are we wiser than the teacher, able to determine what He really didn’t have to do? Or are we called to be His “talmiydim”, His disciples, which in Hebrew means those who adopt the SAME life as the teacher.
In John chapter 3 We see the story of Nicodemus (whose very name means “superior”), a member of the Jewish ruling council. Nicodemus was no “small potatoes.” He was “way on up the food chain” in things pertaining to G-d. He knew the rules, he knew the rituals and he knew the regulations. One thing He lacked was “relationship.” That is why Yeshua said unto him- (and unto us)- “you must be born again.” This is the starting point for any man- Jew or Gentile, it matters not. Whether great or small, we all “must be born again.” This is not accomplished by living a good life, by giving to the poor, by striving to please G-d, all of our days and in all of our ways. This “born again business” is a new birth from above, not a boost from beneath. It is accomplished through the shed blood of the Messiah who hung naked for us on the tree of Calvary. The blood of Jesus Christ G-d’s son, cleanses from all sin. The purpose of the law was to establish our guilt. We cannot be “saved” until we recognize and realize, without Him – “we are lost.” We are the “ani”, in the sight of YHWH who is holy. What can wash away my sin? nothing but the blood of Jesus. Our Bible says, let all things be done decently and in order. Yes, G-d is the G-d of ordered existence. So.. first things first.. “Nicodemus”, you “must be born again.” We (all) must enter the kingdom of G-d, one at a time, through ONE who said of Himself..”I am the Door.” (John 10.9) It is “not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;” (Titus 3.5)
Listen (O man) unto the words of Revelation 5.9- And they sang a new song: “You are worthy to take the scroll and to open its seals, because you were slain, and with your blood you purchased men for God from every tribe and language and people and nation.
And again in Revelation 5.12- “And they sang in a mighty chorus: “Worthy is the Lamb who was slaughtered–to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.”
The Passover Lamb. Very Jewish. The propitiating sacrifice of Messiah foreshadowed. The Perfect Lamb (as announced by John the Baptizer- “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!” (John 1.29) The prophecy of the sacrifice of Messiah fulfilled.
Because of the death, burial and resurrection of Yeshua Hamashiach, we now have the author of the Torah (and the Brit Chadashah) residing within us! The law is no longer written on tablets of stone but is now engraved upon hearts of flesh! “And I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you. I will take out your stony, stubborn heart and give you a tender, responsive heart.” (Ezekiel 36.26)
Because of this “new birth” and totally new relationship- (G-d is now our Father!), we delight to do His will as we are now motivated by love to want to obey Him. We then discover, obedience is the path to blessing, and is what pleases our Abba.
The Jews always have been and always will be G-d’s chosen people. He is far from through with the Jew. There is so much, yet to be! However, the starting line for everyone will always be- “you must be born again.”
The torn veil of the temple speaks volumes to me. I hope it does to you also. We (all) now have access to the throne of grace! His ear is always open to the cry of His children and more tuned to us than the ear of a mother to her child. WoW! -What a mighty G-d we serve!
Maria, there are no divisions in Torah between civil, ceremonial and moral “law”. That is an artificial demarcation imposed by a Greek world view that we have been indoctrinated with for 1700 years, to give an excuse not to live in obedience to His Word.
Yes, there are parts of the Torah which are currently not applicable: for example, there is not an altar in Jerusalem, nor is the Levitical priesthood currently operating, so we cannot do those parts of Torah that require those to be in place. In fact, by *not* sacrificing animals in my backyard on an altar of my own construction, I am keeping Torah, because Torah forbids burnt offerings apart from on a properly dedicated and sanctified altar in Jerusalem (on the Temple Mount).
Instructions to the Levitical priests don’t apply to anyone not of that order. Instructions that are just for women don’t apply to men (and vice versa), to risk stating the obvious. Some instructions only apply at certain stages of life, some only relate to specific business transactions etc.
You see, the Torah can be viewed if you like as a pyramid. The greatest commandment is “The Shema”, the one that goes “Shema, Yisrael, Adonain Eloheinu, Adonai Echad”. Hear O’ Israel, The Lord your God, The Lord is One. You shall love The Lord your God with all your heart, with all your mind and with all your strength. This was Jesus’ answer to the scribes’ question. The second is like it – “You shall love your neighbour as yourself”. In Jesus’ words, on these two commandments the whole of the Law and Prophets hang.
The first 5 of the 10 Devariim (the 10 Words or Commandments) explain how we are to love God (the Shema), the next 5 explain how we are to love our neighbour. The rest of the Torah is simply expanding on the first 10 – how to love and worship God, or how to love and live in harmony with our neighbour.
Interestingly enough, the 1st and the 10th commandment have something in common – they both deal with attitudes of the heart. The first commandment is, “I AM the Lord your God who brought you out of Egypt”. The commandment is implied – “Believe in me!” You have to break that commandment in your heart before you will violate the 2nd through 5th.
The 10th is “Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, wife or posessions”. You have to break that one in your heart before you will kill, steal, commit adultery or bear false witness against your neighbour.
Now, I know someone is going to object and say, “But Jesus was the final sacrifice, therefore the sacrificial system is no more”. Tell that to Paul, who completed a Nazirite vow as recorded in the book of Acts, *after* the resurrection and after Pentecost. Check the instructions for that in Torah – it required a burnt offering.
There are 13 different types of offering specified in Torah, but not one is for willful disobedient sin. The only sacrifice that could be accepted for willful, disobedient sin was the Lamb that God Himself provided, in the place where He promised it to Abraham 3000 years earlier – His only Son.
BTW, Daniel tells us that an altar will again be established in Jerusalem (with or without a Temple – that is not a prerequisite) and the daily sacrifices will again be established prior to the revealing of the Antichrist and the beginning of the “Great Tribulation”. The Word is very clear that anyone who blasphemes that Altar will be guilty and subject to judgement. Be very careful when you see that happening not to speak against it, no matter what you hear preached from the pulpits or spoken of in the mass media.
None of the Torah has been done away with, abrogated or replaced. It is *not* about salvation, that is by grace, through faith. Obedience to God’s instructions (Torah does not mean “Law” in the punitive sense of the word) has to be out of love for a loving and gracious Father and is more about one’s usefulness in the Kingdom of God. After all, He is the King and He has the right to make the rules, which He gave us in written form around 4000 years ago.
I fully agree with your comment about relying on, sticking to and basing our security on God’s Promises. The point is, as James put it, “You say you have faith without works (obedience to God’s instructions), I’ll show you my faith BY my works (obedience to God’s instructions)”. God’s promise to us is that, if we live in obedience to His words and instructions, He will keep us, protect us and provide for us even when everyone and everything is against us.
How about this one from Exodus 15:26. “And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the Lord thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the Lord that healeth thee.”
We love to quote last part of that verse, but ignore the first part. Yet, this is one of the promises of God that you correctly stated that we are to “hold firm to, believe in rely on, stick to, base our life and our security on”.
Love and Blessings,
Rodney.
Maria, I’ll skip the different kinds of law thing, others have addressed that. And you do seem to have enveloped Paul’s intentions with a lot of options from, I guess, the Amplified. Let me say that I don’t either think that Paul contradicted Habbakuk – it’s just the translators that make it difficult to credit that Paul had ever read him.
But let’s just look at Rom 1:17 in a typical translation, say KJV , and get under the skin of it and cut out the fat:
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of G_d revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
What is this “from faith to faith” thing? One episode of intense belief, followed by a valley of doubt, followed by another peak of belief? And is this the “faith” of the “just”? In Greek we have the puny word “pistis” trying to convey a wide range of meanings, of which “faith=belief” is somewhere out on right field. How do you guess which to use where? Hebrew has a lot of words for these different concepts, and in Hab2:4 we see that the particular word in use is “emunah” which leans heavily towards “faithfulness”, “steadfastness”, even “reliability”. A taut translation renders the verse
Hab 2:4 “See, he whose being is not upright in him is puffed up. But the righteous one lives by his steadfastness.”
This contrast with the proud-but-not-upright one also implies a measure of humble submission, servanthood. This verse is totally in line with
Mic 6:8 He has declared to you, O man, what is good. And what does יהוה require of you but to do judgement, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your Elohim?
“Judgement” here doesn’t primarily mean “sitting in judgement on others” although there is a specific place and need for that. It means applying Torah to the situations and choices that face you all through the day, and judging correctly what you should do. This in turn is totally in line with Paul’s charge to Timothy:
2Ti 2:15 be diligent to present thyself approved to [Elohim] –a workman irreproachable, rightly dividing the word of the truth
where “rightly dividing” has the sense of “cutting accurately” in order to apply it to a particular context. This is all the more apt because the “emunah” cluster of Hebrew words are closely tied to “emet” or “truth”. Indeed, abstract concepts are more Greek-friendly than Hebrew-comfortable, and it’s a good guess whether the tie is to “truth” or to “true” in the sense of “a true friend” or a true, trusted servant”.
It makes one wonder, going back to Rom 1:17, whether “from faith to faith” in the Hebrew original [add smiley here] wouldn’t have meant “from mental assent to steadfast obedience”.
Thanks Basil. I have written several TW entries over this last year about the same cluster of Hebrew words surrounding “true”. Reliable, faithful, trustworthy all come to mind in this relationally-based cluster. Your comment on rabbi Sha’ul (Paul) helps us all realize that his Greek is really a translation of Hebrew thought.
If I may, a point about emunah and aman (from where we get our common ending to prayers, Amen). Some quikc background: twice, in the wilderness, the people grumbled to or about Moses for lack of water. The first time, God told Moses, “Strike the rock, and water will come forth”.
The second time (recorded in Numbers 20), Moses was told, “Speak to the rock, and water will come forth”. But Moses, in utter frustration, vented his anger against the people, gave them a verbal spray, and then struck the rock.
As recorded in Numbers 20:12, “And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.”
The word “believed” is ‘aman – aleph-mem-nun, which is the root of emunah, and can mean:
– to build up or support
– to trust or believe
– to be true or certain
– to take the right path (plus other meanings).
The literal word picture of the letters means, “the strength (aleph) of the living (nun) waters (mem)”. Add the “hay” to the end (to make emunah) and you have “behold the strength of the living waters” or, alternatively, “the strength of the living waters revealed” (Hay can mean behold or revealed).
So faith, emunah, is literally the strength of the living waters revealed in me (through my actions, obedience, love for my fellow man etc).
To borrow a famous passage, “The assurance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen, is the strength of the living waters revealed”.
What was it that Yeshua said to the Samaritan woman at the well, and then repeated on the temple mount on the Last Great Day of the Feast of Tabernacles? “If you’re thirsty, ask of me and I will give you rivers of living water”. Rabbi Sha’ul told us in his first letter to the Corinthians, “…and the rock was Christ…” (read 1 Cor 10:1-12).
So why, you may well ask, was this action of Moses (“…because you have not believed me…”) so grievous that it cost him the chance to enter into the promised land? I mean, surely, if anyone deserved it, if anyone had proven that he believed God, it was Moses. But no, this one action cost him dearly. Why?
“The Rock was Messiah”, says Rav. Sha’ul (delving into the sod, or mystery, level of the text). Messiah was to be struck (crucified) only once. It is only necessary to come to him and ASK and he will give rivers of living water flowing out from within. Moses corrupted the picture of Messiah that was supposed to teach us that very fact. He did not OBEY what he was instructed – he let his own frustration get in the way, and the consequences were enormous.
Excellent, Rodney! Amen! -May I attempt to simplifiy? “Faith is our (right) response to what G-d says.”
What is our (right) response? – obedience!
“His mother said to the servants, Whatever He says to you, do it.” (John 2.5)
Maria, I think I would like to get back to that “law” thing. The Civil and Ceremonial Law was given at Sinai right along and mixed up with the Moral Law, to use your terms. Yes, it was given in the context of Theocracy, but it far outlived the theocracy through the hundreds of years of the rule of Kings. It will come back when there is again a Theocracy (the Kingdom of YHWH) administered through the modality of earthly kingdoms. In that time you will be amazed to see (and I think you may well survive to see it, I’m afraid you may have to revise your amillennialism) how the Torah in its fullness is understood and obeyed. And mankind will be amazed to see how well it works:
Psa 19:7 The Torah of יהוה is perfect, bringing back the being; The witness of יהוה is trustworthy, making wise the simple;
Psa 19:8 The orders of יהוה are straight, rejoicing the heart; The command of יהוה is clear, enlightening the eyes;
Psa 19:9 The fear of יהוה is clean, standing forever; The right-rulings of יהוה are true, They are righteous altogether,
Psa 19:10 More desirable than gold, Than much fine gold; And sweeter than honey and the honeycomb.
It is not just the Moral Law that resonates in men’s hearts. People were made to appreciate and enjoy the other laws too – read Psalm 119! Every religion, no matter how pagan, has its substitutes for the commandments, the ceremonies, the sacrifices, the morals of Torah, sometimes overlapping, sometimes divergent and therefore unrighteous – but man cannot do without Torah or a substitute therefor.
And in the heart of the believer who steps out in faith and freedom to obey Torah, a great love of the breadth and depth of Torah is engendered. We live in a period of awkward compromise, obedient to earthly rulers who are/should be obedient to the Almighty, but even now we can begin to taste the pure pleasure of living according to Torah.
Hi Basil – thanks for the exposition both of pistis and law. I was just looking in my Strongs about the word Torah in Ps 19:7 and it seems to have multiple meanings. Didn’t you just say that Hebrew has many more words so that it can be specific about meaning? from Strongs: ” The term torah takes on the meaning of law in certain settings, although it is still currently debated about how to translate the various words that describe the laws, ordinances, commands, decrees and requirements of the Lord….(it goes on at length)..this word is found 25 times in Ps 119 in parallel with various near synonyms. The word means the usual way, custom, or matter of God as David addressed his surprise to the Lord about the way He had dealt with him.”
My bottom line question to those of you who advocate following ALL the Law in the Bible is this: how do you know what to follow if you still think that civil/ceremonial law applies? What would you say to the liberal un-believer/mocker of Christianity who throws in your face: “so, you say the Bible is against homosexuality, should we still stone disobedient sons? and what about mixing fabrics?”
I need a grid/ a context/ a way of explaining WHAT we should follow.
Thanks to all who have commented. This dialogue during my school break (I teach logic & French) has stretched me. ‘writing is thinking’
Maria
Hi Maria,
Can I suggest that Strong’s is a bit inadequate? It is really a fairly simple dictionary. You might look at The Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament, Vol. 15, pp. 609-646, for a much more detailed look at this term. It is at the very heart of what it means to be Jewish. As Heschel said, “A Jew without Torah is obsolete.” We as Christians have really thrown out the baby with the bath water on this one. We have no idea what Torah really is (we think it is laws and rules) and we don’t see its place within the community of the faithful. That all has to change. And, no, it isn’t about keeping a bunch of old rules.
As for homosexuality and mixed fabrics, remember that all Christians claim Yeshua kept the “law” perfectly, which means that these were important enough for Him to shape His behavior. If He is truly our model, then who are we to decide that He was mistaken about keeping these and that we know better.
Hi Skip,
Have to agree with you, but, as one chap said on a recent blog,
“FYI, the set is not yet finished. The 15 current volumes are $975 in print.”
He had perhaps not checked ebay where a single volume 10 from 2000CE, good condition, is being offered for $145.
As another blogger said, “I’ll give an organ for this”…
Yeah, not yet finished but the best you can get. Only 1 volume to go. And there are used copies available, plus new ones. Aside from the fact that you have to sort of work around the JEPD stuff, this is still the best source for background – aside from being orthodox Jewish.
Hi Maria,
Hebrew is a very interesting
languagemindset or way of looking at things, it’s not focused and linear like Greek, it’s more loopy. Hebrew words too can have many meanings, sometimes totally opposed to each other. For example, when we read about Nimrod, we read twice that he was “a mighty hunter before YHWH”. The “before” could have the meaning of “beseeching” or even of “impudent against”, inter many alia, and the simple fact that it is repeated makes one wonder whether the author isn’t describing a range of attitudes that Nimrod went through in relation to Elohim as he was in the process of becoming an el himself. (The Ruach is not in the habit of wasting words.)It is in part because of this that the sages identified the 4 levels of exegesis called “PARDESH”. You can never take things merely at face value, although your final interpretation had better not conflict with a reasonable face-value interpretation.
Complicating things a little more is the Hebrew way of perceiving things and their relationships which gave rise to the way words were often derived from roots with apparently unrelated meanings. yet the derivation may be important in understanding the passage. Then there are the letter-shape implications, as in Rodney’s comment a little higher.
You may well be wondering by now whether one can ever get to any firm understanding from the Hebrew text, shouldn’t we just leave it to the translators? Wish we could, but the translators are only human, and biased, and have their own agenda, and… and Rav Sha’ul instructs us 2Ti 2:15 Do your utmost to present yourself approved to Elohim, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly handling the Word of Truth. One of the best ways to do this IMO is through the process we’re busy with now. Each one doing our utmost. Some of us have to catch up a bigger backlog than others, I’m short more than 50 years of insight into these matters.
Regarding the “emunah” cluster of words, each has a probability-distribution of potential meanings, between them covering the wide range of issues that poor old sharply-focused pistis cannot but has to. Everybody knows it doesn’t mean the same thing every time it occurs but how are you supposed to figure out which when (which is why I don’t like the mechanical repetition of a list of meanings in the Amplified)? In the case of Rav Sha’ul’s two quotations, is not difficult to see what happened. Around 200BC the translators of the Septuagint got to Habbakuk 2:4 with its “emunah” and said “So what’s the Greek word for ’emunah’? Oh yes, pistis” and put it down. And they were right. And Jerome, revising the Greek texts before producing the Latin Vulgate, was right to continue to use it.
But when it comes to you and me having to drive back in the opposite direction from “faith” to “pistis” and then to choose which of its multitudinous potential meanings to select for, say, Rom1:17, we really need to go straight back to the Hebrew of Hab 2:4 and say “Okaaay, it’s emunah and not any of the other Hebrew possibilities, so obviously Sha’ul/Habukkuk had something a little different in mind when he wrote/quoted this.”
The problem really is that almost all of the translators of the last 4-500 years have been basing their thinking on the Replacementist framework which says “NT is primary because it supports our axioms, OT is a very poor second. The alternative is too ghastly to contemplate.” This thought includes “Original NT must be Greek, it daren’t be Hebrew.” Which was Marcion’s thought around 100CE.
Well, the alternative is Continuism, which says “YHWH didn’t spend the 400 years between Micah and Matthew thinking up a Plan B because His Plan A had failed. Instead, He was preparing His people and the nations generally for the next phase of Plan A: send a Messiah anointed to die to save His people from their sins, preparatory to sending Him back for the next phase: the implementation of the Kingdom of Heaven on this here very earth that you and I stand on.” And I believe that the gears have been engaged for this phase, the clutch has been released, and the momentum is just beginning to build up. Messiah fever is spreading at a rapid rate already, as it did 2000 ears ago.
They were right, 2000 years ago, to be looking for their Messiah to arrive then, but they were wrong in expecting Him to come as the Conqueror. Well, He did His Suffering Servant task then; now what’s waiting to be implemented is the Conqueror role. A lot of people will still be looking in the wrong direction, deceived by the Deceiver, but come the Messiah will.
In the meantime… we who look eagerly for His coming need to be familiarising ourselves with the ethos, the constitutional principles, the legal framework of the coming kingdom so that we can serve the coming King in His kingdom. That’s why we need to be putting Torah into practice here and now, as far as possible. And your plea for “a grid/ a context/ a way of explaining WHAT we should follow” is totally understandable and legitimate, because we DO have an obligation to respect the authority of earthly governments.
I would like to refer you to my paper “On Authority” which gets deeply into this problem. I’ve been wrestling with WordPress all day in an effort to post it to my chosen publishing site, http://www.setapartpeople.com, but there is some hassle there, some essential buttons greying out. If I don’t get it right in the next hour or two I’ll e-mail the paper to the site-admin who did earlier today manage to put up a small sample paper of mine onto the site.
Shalom, Basil
Hi Basil – I’ve bookmarked your site and I’ll look for your paper. Thanks for the look into how the Hebrew was translated into the Greek. It’s all very complicated. I hadn’t thought of the Amplified as a mechanical listing of possible meanings, but you’re probably right. I do like it however. I’m currently reading the Bible in the NASB..and it has key words marked and Hebrew & Greek in the back to look up.
I’m a novice at going deeper. So your thoughtful response and all the explanations on this one posting by Skip have been interesting
I was hoping that at your ‘about’, it would tell me more who you are and your background.
Happy New Year – Maranatha
Maria
Love all the commentary … its nice to see such active engagement … 🙂
Shalom
Thank you, Rodney, so much for your post. I needed that clarity. This is a GREAT discussion. Most of the Christians I know are very surprised to find that I came to believe not from the New Testament, but from the Old. It’s a long story and I won’t go into it here, but just to let all of you know how much I appreciate your shared info; it goes a long way toward feeding this sheep.
Thanks, Cathy – that is encouraging. I remember hearing (or reading) Brad Scott from Wild Branch Ministries (I’m pretty sure it was him) saying that he used to challenge Bible College students to be able to preach the gospel and lead someone to faith in Christ entirely from the OT, without reference to the NT.
We see in the gospel account of the disciples on the road to Emmaeus (spelling??) that Yeshua Himself did the same (“…beginning at Moses and all the prophets, He expounded the things concerning Himself…”). With that in mind, Christians should not be surprised when someone comes to faith through the OT, but (having been raised in the Baptist church myself), I can understand why they (we) are.
I’m sure others on the blog would be encouraged by your testimony; perhaps, if you’re willing to share and we ask Skip very nicely (Please?) he could create a new post for you to share it (sorry if I’m speaking out of turn, Skip, if so, I’ll pull my head in a little…).
Blessings,
Rodney.
Maria, The site is beginning to function more or less normally and “On Authority” is up and able to be downloaded now. Sorry about the empty bio, there have been other priorities but I will get back to that shortly. Right now I am busy with preparations to drive from the site a project to produce a publicly-downloadable version of Young’s Literal Translation with the True Names of the Father and the Son replacing the pagan familiars. The preparations will probably take another day or two, I am working on producing uniform Look & Feel for the benefit of the volunteer proof-readers across about 1200 HTM files as there is a separate file for each chapter in the Scriptures in my base documents, with a lot of detail variations in the HTM code. (Hint: interested people, especially with language skills, will be welcome to download the project docs in a day or two and see if they would like to join the volunteer team. We want to have the Tanak complete before Pesach – 30 March, according to the rabbis.)
I am reading this for the first time today and these words are more relevant than ever. The first point has become my mission in life; to hold the church accountable for violence against women. For 30 years, yes count them, 30, I was in an abusive relationship with a man who used the Bible like a whip on my children and me, and the church was aware. I take responsibility; I should have gotten my children and me out, but I didn’t. Unless one understands the psychology of the abuser and abuse, I respectfully request that opinions be kept to yourselves. For years, I wept and prayed before the Lord to change me, make me a better wife, a better Christian, a better person so that the abuse would stop; ultimately all abuse was attributed to me. Isn’t that what the church teaches? We must submit, we must respect our husbands, spare the rod, spoil the child, be right with God otherwise when you take communion you will die. Yes, I heard that each time and denied myself communion for years out of fear. Alas, the Lord did answer and we are out of the hell, no thanks to the church. Have I reconciled? Not with the church, but with God; had to rethink, relearn, reconnect. The other 2 points are more relevant today as well, thus another mission I am on. To help others to understand that we must view scripture from a Jewish perspective, and to renounce the narcissistic view that we are somehow the stars of the show. We must align ourselves with our Jewish brothers and sisters, not the other way around. Kudos to you Skip for saying it like it is without apology.