What Word Would You Choose?
So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. Genesis 3:23 NIV
Banished – Most of us develop our theology from visual imagery. We think of the Garden as an idyllic place and the expulsion from the Garden as something utterly tragic. Notice in this painting, outside the Garden is a world of destruction as if bombs had fallen on the earth. But there is no biblical justification for such imagery. Where do you suppose all of this comes from?
We imagine the emotional trauma and mourning that accompanied this event in scenes like this.
But when the Hebrew is translated with words like “banished,” we miss much of the underlying implications that could paint a different picture. The Hebrew verb here is shalah. Notice the range of its derivatives: weapon (shelah), sending away (shilluhim), shoot or branch (sheluha), undertaking (mishlah), pasture land (mishlah), outstretching (mishloah) and discharge or deputation (mishlahat). In fact, in addition to the action of expulsion, this verb also means “to send on an official mission,” “to send a Savior,” “to let loose, set free,” and “to spread or stretch out.” The idea of “banishing” is derived from the context, especially the next verse that uses the verb garash (to drive out or away).
There is no doubt that something tragic is happening in this event. But the entire situation is very, very strange. What are we to make of the preceding verse that suggests the man and the woman might eat of the Tree of Life and live eternally? What in the world can that mean? And what if the overtones of shalah suggest that God sends the couple from the Garden in order to also accomplish the prime directive – to take dominion over the earth? Did we imagine that Adam and Havvah were intended to stay in the Garden forever? How would that work if they are to be fruitful and multiply and rule? And doesn’t God clothe them as priest and priestess (v. 21)? What does this imply for their roles after the Fall?
Finally, let’s add one more complication. Did you notice that the paintings (and our usual assumption) portray both Adam and Havvah being expelled? But the text doesn’t actually say this. Read it again. It says that God sent out the man! The entire scene from verse 22 to 24 involves God and Adam (the man). There is not a single mention of the woman. Do you find that odd? Did you recognize that anomaly before? How would your theology change if Adam is the only one sent out?
What word would you choose to translate all of these nuances present in this text?
Topical Index: banished, send out, shalah, Garden, Genesis 3:23
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I think I’m following you on a level. So God ordained that sin would enter the world – granted (it’s still sin/rebellion of course which brought the penalty of death).
You suggest that it was only man who was sent away? “But the text doesn’t actually say this. Read it again. It says that God sent out the man!”
The word used in v22 is ‘Man’ or ‘Adam’ – meaning ‘mankind’ ‘human being’ – I think it’s safe to say they were both expelled – right?
First, I do not believe there is any Scriptural evidence that God “ordained” sin would enter the world. That idea is the result of a false view of perfection, time and immutability (see God, Time and the Limits of Omniscience). Secondly, I am not suggesting that only the man was sent out. I am only saying that this is what the text says. The use of ha-adam and the masculine singular personal pronoun makes it very difficult to read this as Mankind or as plural. Furthermore, the context makes it very clear that the one driven out was to “till the ground from which he was taken.” That does NOT fit the description of Havvah. So, we have this very odd verse that stands in contradiction to our usual picture of the COUPLE being banished. I don’t know what all this means. I am just pointing out that it isn’t what we THINK the story says.
In light of Gen 5:2 ‘Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created’; and Gen 1:27, the translation Gen 3:23 of ‘man’ to be understood as ‘humanity’ makes sense. The use of ‘Ha’ (the) ‘Adam’ makes sense as ‘The human being’ or in English ‘man’ instead of Ha (the) ‘Adam the male person’. Also, the use of the masculine singular personal pronown is not uncommon for a pluralistic concept such as ‘humanity’ – this is also observed in other semetic languages such as Arabic. In light of the whole of scripture – the rest of the story, Adam knowing his wife…etc, one verse/one word in isolation=many possibilities. the whole of scripture=much clearer picture
But again, look at the subsequent verse. Are we to then say that God’s address is to both? Was Havvah taken from the ground? Was she assigned the task of tilling the soil (avad)? I don’t think so. Why are you trying to bend the verse to fit both? What would you conclude if only Adam were the direct object here? Hasn’t God already acknowledged that Havvah broke fellowship? So, she is also a sinner. What role does the tree of life play and why is it that this prohibition is addressed to the man (definite article plus singular masculine pronoun sure makes it look like this a particular person – or are you suggesting that ALL mankind is somehow collectively included in God’s speech). Since there is only one man in the world in this story, does it make sense that God would address Himself to all MANKIND, something that does not even exist yet?
~ But the product (the end result,wages, the “consequence”) of sin is death and the gift of God is eternal life in our Lord Yeshua The Messiah
“wages:” opsṓnion (from opson, “meat” and onemoai, “purchase”) – properly, the purchase of meat (food); later, “ration-money paid to soldiers” (BAGD); hence, wages (“fitting compensation”).
~ The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself ~ (Ezekiel 18.20)
Death, in it’s simple form is separation. We are separated from those we love when we die. We say our good-bye’s, our farewell’s and they are gone out from us, the “dearly departed ones.” We are separated, torn apart, removed from the intimate fellowship and companionship and friendship we once knew. Hell will be a place of entire separation. Those who end up in this place of torment, will not be there with all their buddies, they will be forever alone in the blackness of darkness forever, tormented also with the mental flames of regret. Rejection of God’s provided Lamb is no small affair. Unless our sins are covered, atoned for, propitiated by the blood of Calvary’s Lamb, we, the once-born are destined for a place that was not designed for us, but rather for the ones who rebelled against Heaven’s King.
Death, in it’s simple form is separation. The breath of man leaves the body and the body without breath is a lifeless, rotting carcass. But, never forget (Adam) for the Christian, -“to die is gain.”
Stricken, smitten, and afflicted,
See Him dying on the tree!
’Tis the Christ by man rejected;
Yes, my soul, ’tis He, ’tis He!
’Tis the long expected prophet,
David’s Son, yet David’s Lord;
Proofs I see sufficient of it:
’Tis the true and faithful Word.
Tell me, ye who hear Him groaning,
Was there ever grief like His?
Friends through fear His cause disowning,
Foes insulting His distress:
Many hands were raised to wound Him,
None would interpose to save;
But the deepest stroke that pierced Him
Was the stroke that Justice gave.
Ye who think of sin but lightly,
Nor suppose the evil great,
Here may view its nature rightly,
Here its guilt may estimate.
Mark the Sacrifice appointed!
See Who bears the awful load!
’Tis the Word, the Lord’s Anointed,
Son of Man, and Son of God.
Here we have a firm foundation,
Here the refuge of the lost.
Christ the Rock of our salvation,
Christ the Name of which we boast.
Lamb of God for sinners wounded!
Sacrifice to cancel guilt!
None shall ever be confounded
Who on Him their hope have built.
What was the cause, the reason, the “why” of Adam and Eve’s eviction from this beautiful place called Eden? One reason, one cause, one error on the part of the one responsible, – Adam sinned. It was his duty, his responsibility, as the head of the woman, the spiritual leader of the house to “remember” and to speak up, to answer the serpent in the affirmative- “Yes, God did say..”- but, for whatever reason (was the first Adam distracted?- when the “saw” the fruit -how “beautiful” it was! Pre-historic “bling.” My, how sin “shines!” Look at the shiny lure, Mr. Fish, -have a bite. The LSD of HaSatan, -Lust, Sin, Death. It’s been that way since Adam and still until today- Lust-Sin-Death. I see it, I want it, I’ve got to have it! You say her name is Bathsheba?- Go and fetch her for me! Uh, we walk by faith? and NOT by sight? Oh!- I almost forgot…
Back to the garden. (once again!). What, dear friends was the curse?- It was in this case and in every case- “sin.” What was the “big deal?” It was only a pencil!- All I did my whole entire life was to steal a pencil. (thou shalt not steal!- or lie either for that matter!). And this one “act” of stealing is going to cause me to be separated from God? Rather a minor infraction- wouldn’t you say? ~ For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it ~ (James 2.10) Just one point? Just one pencil? Yes. All it takes is one, but I can guarantee – I have more than one to my account!
Sin is the curse. Why? Because God is holy. Exceedingly holy. More, (so much more) than I know. For God, and God alone is without sin. The rest of us? Every one of us? What do the scriptures say? ~ For “all” have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God! ~ There is none righteous- no, not one. (with, Hallelujah!- one exception!)
Christ is the cure. (enter the Gospel!) God’s perfect Law has declared it: – the soul that sinneth shall die.
We (all) are destined for death.
“But God!” But God demonstrated His love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners (whether Jew or Gentile, male or female)- Christ died for us (all of us). Christ died for, and in the place of, sinners.
My I share a story of atonement? of redeeming, propitiating, life-giving blood? It is the red-thread that runs through and binds together the book of God, our Bible. An animal (was it a lamb?) was slain to provide a “covering” for Adam and Eve- and thousands of years later, God did provide Himself the Lamb, Calvary’s Lamb, the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. Jewish sins, Gentile sins- this blood is for you.
The “gospel” according to Peter: ~ For you know that it was not with perishable things such as silver or gold that you were redeemed from the empty way of life handed down to you from your forefathers; it was the precious blood of Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God ~ (1 Peter 1.18,19)
There is a fountain filled with blood drawn from Emmanuel’s veins;
And sinners plunged beneath that flood lose all their guilty stains.
Lose all their guilty stains, lose all their guilty stains;
And sinners plunged beneath that flood lose all their guilty stains.
The dying thief rejoiced to see that fountain in his day;
And there have I, though vile as he, washed all my sins away.
Washed all my sins away, washed all my sins away;
And there have I, though vile as he, washed all my sins away.
Dear dying Lamb, Thy precious blood shall never lose its power
Till all the ransomed church of God be saved, to sin no more.
Be saved, to sin no more, be saved, to sin no more;
Till all the ransomed church of God be saved, to sin no more.
E’er since, by faith, I saw the stream Thy flowing wounds supply,
Redeeming Love has been my theme, and shall be till I die.
And shall be till I die, and shall be till I die;
Redeeming Love has been my theme, and shall be till I die.
Then in a nobler, sweeter song, I’ll sing Thy power to save,
When this poor lisping, stammering tongue lies silent in the grave.
Lies silent in the grave, lies silent in the grave;
When this poor lisping, stammering tongue lies silent in the grave.
LORD, I believe Thou hast prepared, unworthy though I be,
For me a blood bought free reward, a golden harp for me!
’Tis strung and tuned for endless years, and formed by power divine,
To sound in God the Father’s ears no other Name but Thine.
~ that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus ~ (Ephesians 2.7)
We gain far more “in Christ” (the second Adam) -than we ever lost in Adam.
Dear Carl,
I appreciate the time you take to write on this blog, but in this case, there are a significant number of issues which must be addressed. First, importing Pauline material, or material from any other era, in order to understand this verse is not exegesis. Yes, there might be mishrashim involved in later uses of the verse, but we are trying to understand it IN ITS OWN CONTEXT, not as the subject of a letter written at least 3600 years later.
Secondly, the immediate jump to the evangelical “Christ” and the Christian idea of sin is simply a “jump.” It can’t be sustained from the text under examination. If we are going to understand what this text says, we have to stick with its time and language. Yes, much later we might find that it has been interpreted another way, but that doesn’t answer the question, “What did it mean to the audience that first heard it?”
Thirdly, the remark in passing that Adam was the head of the woman is, in my opinion, not only theologically suspect, but absolutely NOT supported by this story. In fact, everything in this story says just the opposite. Please read Guardian Angel on this topic. Yes, I know that the “headship” of the man is a big deal in some Christian circles, but that idea doesn’t come from Genesis.
Finally, sin is not a curse because God is holy. Sin isn’t a curse at all. The RESULT of sin in the curse. Sin is the break in fellowship and that break is NOT because God is holy. That break is the result of willful disobedience and the consequences of that disobedience in light of God’s holiness. But to say sin itself is a curse is just too much. That would entail that we sin BECAUSE of a curse, not because of a choice.
So, let’s keep digging, and keep asking, and keep being careful about what we say.
So all interested parties should know- I am one of the “apparently few?” remaining, who believe the entire Bible to be the inspired word(s) of God. This does include what is known as the Pauline epistles and also the Genesis account as well. I also believe (to let all know- where I’m coming from), not only is “all scripture given by inspiration of God- or is God-breathed but I also believe that the word(s) of God are timeless and will apply to all generations- both past and future. How dare I say, “that was then and this is now” and we live in a so much more “enlightened era?” No, not at all- if anything – what some may call enlightenment is the “blind leading the blind.”
Again- and again- (and again!)- “What do the scriptures say” is always and forever to be our standard for right living and right thinking., affecting “both” our attitudes and our actions. Not my thoughts- His thoughts, not my ways- His ways, for His is the Way that leads to life. I believe “eternal life” is not only a quantity, but a quality as well. It is as simple to me as “lather, rinse, repeat”- We do, we live according to His instructions found in His word, – our Bible.
I believe Yeshua is the Son of God and God the Son. I believe also He is the union of the human and the Divine, the ONE (and only) sinless second Adam, Redeemer, Savior, and ever present Friend. I believe in the blood covenant established by God and still viable in the world we live in presently, for God is intensely, intimately, actively involved in the life of every believer.
I believe “in Christ” there is neither Jew nor Gentile- male nor female- but a new an entirely new creation, and I also believe we who are His are “one” in Christ Jesus.
Central to my belief is the cross of the Crucified ONE- the second Adam, the only perfect Man ever to have lived and the ONE who is now resurrected and is living within the heart of every twice-born living and breathing soul, a vey present Help in time of need and our ever present, ever near blood-covenant Friend.
I believe in the power of prayer and find it more and more crucial and critical in my daily life as I am in the process of becoming a more and more God dependent creature. If anything I ever write or “report on” is unscriptural in any way, I will gladly repent and retract and retreat and freely, gladly change my evil ways!
Salvation, I believe, is a crisis followed by a process. This process is called sanctification- the process (usually involving heat and pressure) of becoming more of Him and less of me. I confess, ( agree with what God says in His book)- “He must increase and I must decrease.”
I believe within the heart of every twice-born child of God a Teacher lives. That Teacher is the Ruach HaKodesh, – the Breath of God. Concerning this gift of all gifts the scripture says: ~ But when the Father sends the Advocate as My representative—that is, the Holy Spirit—He will teach you everything and will remind you of everything I have told you ~ (it is written: John 14.26)
To teach and to remind- that is His job- it is what He does- to bring everything God has said to our remembrance, therefore our great need to study the scriptures! and as our LORD has testified: ~ these are they which testify of Me ~ Without the written word of God we will never know Him who is the Living Word! Hallelujah! for the eternal, unchanging, ever fresh- life-giving, life-renewing, life-imparting word(s) of God!
As He has said, “if you abide in Me and my words abide in you…”- And where dear friends, are His words to be found? uh.. contained within the pages of His book? If the Bible is not the inspired, inerrant eternal word of God, – what are we doing but spinning our oh-so intellectual wheels and having a bit of fun bickering back and forth..- but if it is as it says of itself- “the word of the LORD” then should we not then- “live by the Book?”- “lather, rinse, repeat”- ~ Whatever He says unto you- do it.” -What we believe, we live by, all the rest is just religious talk.
One thing and one thing only separates the creature from the Creator and that one thing is sin. We will never be able to answer the sin question (what can wash away my sin?) until we can answer the Son question- (What shall I do with Jesus who is called the Christ?).
~ But as for me and my house..- we will serve (avad) the LORD ~ I will bless the LORD at all times, His praise will continually be in my mouth. -amen.
Awesome. I appreciate you stirring things up. I hope for a follow up on this; muy interesante!
Skip,
Thank you for clarifying and giving the facts!
I LOVE this! Based on what I read in your book about the this particular event, I am leaning on shelah meaning “to send away” and to Adam only. And your right, I do not feel that God “banished” them from the garden because in my translation it says He set a guard up over the tree…not the garden. Maybe it was to be as a reminder to them of what they once had and a yearning to return back before the fall. This is great and I hope you don;t mind that I am not going to wait for the followup and jump ahead and dive in and see what I find. Praise God!
Nahum Sarna has a very telling insight on this. More to come in another TW.
Hey Skip, Love reading your info thanks. I do however have the same comment Randa had. The Hebrew word I think you are referring to says it comes from ruddy meaning mankind. Any comment
the man;H120
Blessings,
Susan
Your reference to the etymology of ‘DM (ha-adam) relies on a possible parallel to a word in (I believe) Akadian or Ugaritic. Please consult the TDOT where you will find that there is NO scholarly consensus on the etymology of ‘DM. Most simple dictionaries do not present the whole picture, which is far more complicated.
But even if your hypothesis were true, read the context. The next verse makes it abundantly clear that God is speaking to the man, not the woman. He is the one who came from the ground. He is the one who must “till” the soil. None of this description fits Havvah, so why do we include her in the expulsion? I’ll tell you why. Because we have always thought of it like that. But where is the evidence?
Now this doesn’t mean, as I said, that they BOTH weren’t sent out. But I am only pleading to be careful with the text. Don’t make it say something it doesn’t. And when it doesn’t say something that you would assume it should, be ready to ask WHY.
All *religion (*relationship is not a religion) is mankind’s way of trying to get back into the garden, into a place where things are “very good” and where they can walk and talk with God and fellowship with Him. Things are definitely NOT “very good” without it.
The way back doesn’t mean that tree, but it comes from He who hung on a tree, raised between heaven and earth, peirced for us. Man does want to live forever, and that doesn’t come from that particular tree either, but God offers us assurance of eternal life, where we can live forever with Him. It must coming by way of a sacrifcie, not a fruit, (a production, a work).
God said “have dominion” (Gen. 1.26) so no, doesn’t seem like mankind was not going to stay in the garden, just as a baby doesn’t stay in the crib. I believe mankind was going to colonize the stars eventually. Instead, after disobeying, he has learned to go into the lab and war to destroy life. Mankind could have “subdued the earth” (Gen. 1. 28), ruled it, as *did the Lord Jesus (*peace be still).
Here is the effect of sin/disobedience–mankind (everybody) left the garden FLEEING the presence of God! Seeking to hide, lying to God’s face, the old, old question asked of first man: “where are you?” (G. 3.8-9) is still a good one. God is still convicting, asking, seeking us. “who told you?”. We better all be checking out who is telling us stuff today. If its not the Word of God, believe it not!
We must not miss that it was God that drove them out, and set the flaming sword around the tree, not to keep man from fellowship and eternal life, not to set up a roadblock, but to open the TRUE WAY mankind was to come to fellowship and eternal life–thru the safrifice, slain from the foundation of the world. When man looked back, they saw blood (from which their covering had been made).
You have much knowledge. Hands down, not much competion out there for you. But my search is not for knowledge alone, I want/need wise studies that reveal Jesus more and more and what He has done. I hunger for the real knowledge worth attaining– I Cor. 2: 2.
Many of these little words are like litter being held up and magnified, and while folks look on that, they forget to look upon Jesus. (alright, my hands already over my ears awaiting the response you will give).
Granted, everything you say may be correct (as far as it goes) tho in this case, only Adam was sent out — I can’t agree. Where my husband goes, I go. Being a woman, I know Eve was constrained twice, by her God and by love to her husband.
Since/if you know Christ, use your knowledge to make choice words stand out to reflect His Light and Everlasitng Glory. Okay, I agree, I’m not your mama. But if I were, that’s what I’d say. lol.
Thanks for hearing me.
May the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord make his face to shine upon you,
and be gracious to you. May the Lord lift up his countenance upon you, and give you peace.
While I appreciate your desire to know (in what sense?) Yeshua more and more, you must remember that we are dealing with the text, not with a retrospective look from 2000 years AFTER Yeshua walked the earth. Yes, we can read BACK into the text what it doesn’t say, and then claim that we have it right because we are enlightened by the last 5000 years of hum a history, but that is not exegesis. What would this verse have meant to the children of Israel fresh from Egypt? I am quite sure they were not thinking about Yeshua when they heard it. And I rather doubt that Moses was thinking about Yeshua either. While it is possible to USE the text to make points about our current understanding, I am asking a simpler question: “What does it SAY?” I can assure you that the pronouns and the context make it clear that God is speaking to Adam, not Havvah. That, of course, doesn’t mean that they were not BOTH sent out, but the text doesn’t say that, and that fact should give us pause. If nothing else, it should cause us to stop reading what we WANT it to say and read what it actually says. I am afraid that there are many more verses which we read the way we want them to read (probably because of our past erroneous pictures) rather than read them as they are actually written. The first rule of good theology is to know what the text actually says, and not add to it to make it square with our thinking.
So, in the end it doesn’t really matter much if you can’t agree. You are welcome to disagree, but while you can disagree with me, it is much more difficult to disagree with the text itself. Read it in Hebrew. It just doesn’t say “He sent THEM out.” And, as I pointed out, the continuing description does not fit Havvah. She is not the one who came from the ground.
YOur conclusions about the role of Yeshua and the ultimate need for atonement may be perfectly right, but you can’t get there from here.
DOROTHY, YOU CAN BE MY MAMA… ♥
Thank you, you must get so weary.
At last I believe I understand from where your teaching springs.
Okay, unless the word means “mankind” I concede the words are not there, but to me that doesn’t generate a “why?”. It only means, unlike us, God doesn’t say anything un-neccesary.
I won’t have to tell someone to leave a room –if I just let a mad hornet loose in there– I can save myself some breath.
Men and women indeed think so differently. Lol.
Your point is well-taken.
One last comment from me on this one Skip: ‘What would it mean to you Skip if only the man was ‘banished’? what’s the point here in asking: ‘did God really say?’ knowing the range of meanings indeed encompassed in the sentence you are referring supports ‘man’ / ‘humanity’.
you say ‘good theology’ – a couple of posts ago you titled ‘The end of theology’.
You say Paul’s writing should have no bearings on our look at the Genesis text – I thought you held his understanding as a Rabbi in high regard –
picking up on what Dorothy said: ‘where my husband is, I go’ – – Indeed God said (even before the verse you are questioning) that ‘it is not good for the man to be alone’ –
As a rebuttle to your idea of Adam not being the head of Eve: see the outline for the case by Grudem (I assure you the Genesis text is the bedrock for this idea) – chapter 22 under heading ‘differences in roles’ download for free from http://www.slideshare.net/teng1981/systematic-theology-wayne-grudem
Some of your teaching is really building and edifying! –
This I try and remember: “We who teach shall be judged with greater strictness” (James 3:1; cf. Luke
12:48) – and whenever I sound too original at times, I submit my originality to God’s word (in it’s entirety) – because I know – I can probably justify a lot to myself and others.
May God bless you, and give you wisdom to serve Him and teach others His word.
I suppose you have invited me to respond to each of these:
1. While there might be a range of meanings involved in the word, ‘dm, are you going to ignore the rest of the sentence (“from the ground” and “till the soil”)? How can you claim that this sentences speaks of “all humanity” when it is contextually quite clearly spoken about Adam, the man? Would you simply dismiss the context in order to maintain the view that it speaks of both genders?
2. Paul’s rabbinic midrashim do not provide interpretation of the Genesis account IN THE CONTEXT of Genesis. How could they? They were written thousands of years later. The Bible is NOT written all at once, in the same culture and in the same language. That would be like saying that today’s Supreme Court interpretations of the Constitution are correct because they are current. Don’t we want to know what the authors of the Constitution MEANT, even if we later have a different view? I hold Paul is very high regard, but he is not a contemporary of Moses. I believe Paul’s work is inspired and canonical, but he was not among the children who left Egypt. When will we realize that the Bible is not yesterday’s newspaper? Understanding the text in its own context does not mean that later interpretations are not valid nor helpful. It only means that WHEN THE TEXT WAS WRITTEN, it was not written to us – or to Paul. Applying the text to us – or to Paul – is not the same as asking “What did it mean to the ones who heard it first?”
3. “It is not good for man to be alone” is not relevant to this discussion since its context is very different (again, see Guardian Angel). That verse is itself quite odd since Adam was NOT relationally alone, was he?
4. Grudem is wrong. Enough said. Oh, I could add that he, Piper and many other conservative evangelicals hold a hierarchical view of men and women, do not allow women to teach or preach and base it all on “out of context” passages (and a good dose of middle-ages Catholic theology). I don’t want to get into a debate about Grudem, and others, since I treat all this in the book, but I will tell you that he is out of step with a large number of contemporary scholars who are rethinking this classic view – and out of step with Judaism on this issue too. Actually I am surprised that you would resort to Grudem since he argues that YOU, a woman, have no place in teaching men.
5. Submitting to the entirety of God’s word is certainly the objective – and the commitment – but how are you going to do that if you let one part set aside another part. The idea here is to reconcile all of it, even if some verses seem very difficult to understand. It is of no value to simply ignore the obvious reading to the text in order to force it to fit other parts of the Bible. Let’s suppose that this text under investigation actually says that the MAN was sent from the Garden. Does the fact that it doesn’t mention the woman change anything? If it does, what changes? Does it change the need for atonement? Does it alter our view of Yeshua’s sacrifice? I don’t think so. But I do think it corrects certain pictures that we have grown up with – pictures that shape the way we read the story. Perhaps we need to adjust the pictures to fit the text rather than the other way around.
Thanks for all your challenges. I do believe the entire Bible is the word of God and ultimately speaks a uniform message. It’s just that I am not willing to alter the text to fit “my” view of the message.
just don’t forget lots of us love you, we love God and love our brother, and hope you won’t tear your hair out. I think Moses would laugh if he could read some of these blog comments.
Thanks again Skip –
Re- Grudem – the merit of his argument is as valuable as it is based on scripture (nor Grudem, but the word)
As to being a woman and why I would not be leaping for joy about what contemporary scholarship has to offer me by way of an ‘improved’ role – they can keep what they offer if it’s not based on a sound appraisal of scripture. I suppose Jesus may have complained about coming as a slave ‘eved’ not being the best of roles for Him. He submitted and was exhalted. Nothing wrong with submission if it’s good enough for my Lord.
Will be reading at least some contemporary scholarship along my journey – and I’ll do my best to set my biases aside – but if in and of it’s own it ends up being ‘traditions of men’ as some were in the days of Jesus – then will happily discard.
“I do believe the entire Bible is the word of God and ultimately speaks a uniform message.” – if so, then we are in agreement.
Thought everyone would like to see this list:
My King
by Chuck Missier
HE is the King of the Jews
HE is the King of Israel
But HE is also
King of all the Ages
King of Heaven
King of Glory
King of Kings
..and Lord of Lords
HE is
a prophet before Moses
a priest after Melchizedek
a champion like Joshua
an offering in place of Isaac
a king from the line of David
a counselor above Solomon
beloved, rejected, and exalted
like Joseph
and yet far more…
The Heavens declare His glory
and the firmament shows
His handiwork
He who is, who was
and who always will be
The First and the Last
HE is the Alpha and Omega
the Aleph and the Tau
the A and the Z
HE is the ego eimi
the (sorry, these Hebrew letters wouldn’t copy here)
the “I AM that I AM”
The voice of the burning bush
the Captain of the Lord’s Host
the conqueror of Jericho
HE is our Kinsman-Redeemer
and HE is our Avenger of Blood
and HE is our City of Refuge
HE was crucified on a cross of wood
Yet HE made the hill
on which it stood
By Him were all things made
that were made
without Him was not anything made
that was made
By Him are all things held together!
In Him dwells
the fullness of the Godhead bodily
The very God of very God
HE became
the first fruits of them that slept
HE is our Performing High Priest
Our Personal Prophet
Our Reigning King
HE is enduringly strong
entirely sincere
eternally steadfast
HE is imperially powerful
immortally graceful
impartially merciful
HE stands alone in Himself
HE ‘is unique
preeminent
supreme
unparalleled
HE ‘is the Loftiest idea
in Literature
HE ‘is the highest Personality
in Philosophy
HE ‘is the Fundamental Doctrine
of Theology
HE ‘is the Supreme Problem
in “higher criticism”!
HE ‘is the Son of God!
There is no means of measuring
His limitless love
It was written in blood
on that wooden cross
erected in Judea
2,000 years ago
HE was born of a woman
so that we could be born of God
HE humbled Himself
so that we could be lifted up
HE became a servant
so that we could be made joint-heirs
HE suffered rejection
so that we could become His friends
HE denied Himself
so that we could freely receive all things
HE gave Himself
so that HE could bless us in every way
He
is available to the tempted and the tried
Blesses the young
Cleanses the lepers
Defends the feeble
Delivers the captives
Discharges the debtors
Forgives the sinners
Franchises the meek
Guards the besieged
Heals the sick
Provides strength to the weak
Regards the aged
Rewards the diligent
Serves the unfortunate
Sympathizes and He saves!
His Offices are many
His Reign is righteous
His Promises are certain
His Goodness is limitless
His Light is matchless
His Love never changes
His Grace is sufficient
His Mercy is everlasting
His Word is enough
His Yoke is easy and
His Burden is light!
He’s indescribable
He’s incomprehensible
He’s irresistible
He’s invincible!
The Heaven of heavens
cannot contain Him
Man cannot explain Him
The Pharisees couldn’t stand Him
but soon learned
that they couldn’t stop Him
They railroaded Him
through 6 illegal trials
and yet
The witnesses couldn’t agree against Him
and the personal representative
of the ruler of the world
couldn’t find any fault with Him
Herod couldn’t kill Him
death couldn’t handle Him
the grave couldn’t hold Him!
HE has always been and always will be
HE had no predecessor and
will have no successor
You can’t impeach Him and
HE isn’t going to resign!
His Name is above every name
That at the name of Yeshua
Every knee shall bow
Every tongue shall confess
That Jesus Christ is Lord!
HE is the kingdom
and the power
and the glory…
for ever, and ever.
Hallelujah! …and Amen!
~ I will bless the LORD at all times: His praise shall continually be in my mouth ~ (Psalm 34.1)
Now I know these words were written originally by a Shepherd/King thousands of years before I was even a twinkle in my daddy’s eye. David wrote praises and was singing songs to the God he knew. And many of these songs were set to music, “back in the day”-so the high praises of God has been happening for many centuries. But do we worship the very same God that David once did? Amazingly, yes, we do. There is ONE God. Is this ONE God knowable today? And how would we go about knowing Him? Is this possible for us who are alive and well and living thousands of years after David wrote these inspired songs so long ago, to sing about (and to) the very same God David once knew? Is He the same God today and does He change? What do the scriptures say?. ~ For I the LORD do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed ~ (Malachi 3.6) Yes, He is, and remains, – the very same God. The God of Abraham, Moses, Noah, David, shepherds and fishermen, and now (yes thousands of years later!) us.
The Bible is a book of history, this much is true, but it is His-Story, a collection of stories and a history of a God who keeps His word and is always able and faithful to deliver, to redeem, to love and to care for His own from generation to generation for “His mercy extends to those who fear Him.” (Luke 1.50)
Amen Dorothy, and this from youtube.com- S.M. Lockridge :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzqTFNfeDnE
Skip, I posted a link to this (and the followup) on Facebook (as I occassionally do) and a fellow Hebrew student named Albert made the following observations:
I have encouraged Albert to join us here. I hope he does so.
Blessings,
Rodney.
PS Please pass on our greetings to Rosanne – I trust she is well.
Excellent. I would welcome his contributions.
~ For just as by the agency of one-man, sin entered the universe, and by means of sin, death, in this way death passed by this sin unto all the children of men, because all of them have sinned. For before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of Him that was to come. But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. And the result of God’s gracious gift is very different from the result of that one man’s sin. For Adam’s sin led to condemnation, but God’s free gift leads to our being made right with God, even though we are guilty of many sins. For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the ONE man, Yeshua Hamashiach, Jesus (who is the) Christ.