The Cross?
And according to the Law, one may almost say, all things are cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. Hebrews 9:22 NASB
Shedding of blood – This will be difficult. To even suggest an alternative understanding of what we are about to investigate may cause apoplectic theological shock. Some may need to visit a therapist (as one of my undergraduate students once told me about his experience in a class I taught). But be assured that I am not taking you anywhere I have not gone nor would I pretend that I haven’t also spent a few hours with my theological therapy group.
The opening premise is unquestionable (at least we think so). “Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.” What could be more fundamental than that! Built upon the solid rock of the proleptic sacrificial system, we find this idea asserted over and over in Christian thought and liturgy. “Washed by the blood” is such a ubiquitous theme in Christianity that none would raise any question.
Except – except that Yeshua didn’t offer His blood as a sacrifice on the cross. None of His blood was sprinkled on the altar. In fact, He wasn’t even killed according to ritual practice. He wasn’t executed by the priests. He wasn’t crucified for religious apostasy (and if He were, it would be hard to see how He could be a ritual sacrifice). None of the blood of the Lamb touched any of the required places for the remission of sin. Nothing about the cross suggests that it meets the very requirement necessary for forgiveness. Certainly Jewish believers would have known this. We might be separated from the direct and immediate connection between the alter, the sacrifice and forgiveness, but the author of Hebrews and his reading audience wasn’t.
The thought is even more startling when we realize that this Greek verb is only found in this one verse in the New Testament. Hamatekchysia only makes sense if it has an Hebraic connotation. The author of Hebrews goes to great lengths to assure that his readers understand that Yeshua is the sacrifice and that His blood does facilitate the forgiveness of sin. But it clearly doesn’t happen on the cross.
Christian theologians are not unaware of this obvious difficulty. They suggest that it isn’t blood that is necessary. What is necessary is death. “The point is that the giving of life is the necessary presupposition of forgiveness.”[1] But this is a rationalization, not an exegesis. The entire cultus of Judaism taught, and still believes, that without the shedding of blood, sprinkled on the altar according to God’s own instructions, there is no forgiveness. If the author of Hebrews is a Jew, and if Yeshua is a Jew, and if the readers are Jews, why would they ever conclude that death is the only requirement? This Christian re-interpretation makes it easy to avoid the issue of the altar, the temple and the sacrificial system, but it does so at the expense of violating everything taught about sacrifice in the Tanakh.
So, what do we do now? If the crucifixion is not the modus operandi of forgiveness, then how is forgiveness accomplished? Where is the blood of the Lamb sprinkled on the altar?
No, I won’t leave you hanging. 🙂 Tomorrow.
Topical Index: blood, haima, shedding of blood, haimatekchysia, altar, sacrifice, forgiveness, Hebrews 9:22
Just a question: Why do you suppose Christianity substituted the cross for the altar? Why did Christianity make the cross the center piece of theology? Do you suppose way back when all of this was being formulated that there was just a hint of anti-Semitism in the air?
[1] J. Behm, haima, haimatekchysia, in TDNT (Abridged), p. 26.
So, the death, burial and resurrection of the Sacrifice for sins, the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, was a blunder, a mistake, a tragic misunderstanding.. All right then.
So where is the necessary sacrifice for sin? Where is the blood (of bulls and goats) if that is what you prefer, or if you wish to return to the annual offering by the high priest on the Day of Atonement, then so be it..
A problem arises though. That blood cannot wash away or do away with sin. That blood, the blood of bulls and goats and turtledoves- was only symbolic, a shadow of what was Substance. There was one Sacrifice for sins that was acceptable in the sight of God- “once forever.”
By His own blood and by His own body on the tree He (the LORD Jesus) has perfected forever them who are sanctified by faith in His blood. ~ Because by one sacrifice He has made perfect forever those who are being made holy ~ (Hebrews 10.14).
Oh, please discount the blood of the cross and where does this leave us? – Totally without help, without hope, and without God in the world. The cross of Christ is crucial. (care to explore the word “crucial” with me?- might even have some “Greek” roots! No- life begins at the cross. It is the message of the cross that to some is “foolishness” – I can see this.. I’m not blind to this- God on a cross,- “ridiculous.” What kind of God would allow Himself to be spit on by the very creatures He created? Our God. What kind of God would humble himself and be born a man? Our God. What kind of God would go through what He went through (cheap grace anyone?) in order to “purchase” our salvation? Brothers, sisters, we have been redeemed. “Bought with a price”- and you tell me, Mr. Theologian, Dr. So-and-So, Rabbi Idontcare- Whose blood was shed on the cross? – You think Yeshua to be a man? Yes. He was. Fully. And far more human than you and I ever hope to be. But I’ll say this, along with thousands of others- that man was more than the son of man- He was (and is) the Son of God with power. Mighty life-giving, life-changing, death-defying, sin-conquering power.
Deny the cross of Christ and do so in the Presence of YHWH. – I shall not. ~ May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world ~ we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all ~ I am not (now, nor ever will be) ashamed of the gospel, (the good news) because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile ~
Rabbi Sha’ul was so taken with the cross of Christ he said this: ~ For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified ~ Amen, brother Paul. Here, I take my stand. Looking for me? I’ll be kneeling in front of the cross- thanking my God and my Savior with tears of gratitude and joy for paying the penalty (it was death y’all) for my sins. It was “my” sins that held Him there, until it was accomplished- and friends- it was “accomplished” – “paid in full!.”
Benevolence towards another at cost to myself? This is love? Yes, it is. I suggest we take one more look at the cost of the cross. Who was hanging there in agony and blood? Whose side was pierced for our transgressions? Who was bruised for our iniquities? The very Son of God, our LORD and Savior Jesus (who is the) Christ.
We (all) will meet Someone one day. His hands will bear the prints of the nails. I think we know His Name. It is a Name which is above every Name, and as the scriptures state: “every knee shall bow.” Every professor and every pauper.
Draw near and listen carefully.. “Hallelujah for the cross!”
And one more thing.. (just one?)- “the veil of the Temple was torn in two from top to the bottom. What “veil” was this? – Location, location, location..
I boast not of works or tell of good deeds
For naught have I done to merit His grace
All glory and praise shall rest upon Him
So willing to die in my place
I will glory in the cross
-In the cross
Lest His suffering all be in vain
I will weep no more for the cross that He bore
I will glory in the cross
My trophies and crowns, my robe stained with sin
Twas all that I had to lay at His feet
Unworthy to eat from the table of Life
Till Love made provision for me
The remedy for sin is the blood. Leave this and we leave to our peril.
What is the remedy for death…The resurrection of the CHRIST and we who belong to HIM at HIS coming.
Leave these premises and we are NOT likely to get the BIBLICAL UNDERSTANDING that is needed for the sinner looking for mercy.
Lord, enable us You have and enable us You will to come in line with Your Word.
Dear Carol,
thanks for the careful clarification. The sin offering occurs as required on the heavenly altar. This is the only way to reconcile “before the foundation” and the requirements for offering in the Torah. But the resurrection, which necessitates a death, is of a different pattern, the first fruits of those who are brought in. How we came to believe that they are one and the same is an interesting history. Certainly Jewish believers in the first century would not have mistaken a crucifixion for a blood sacrifice.
The death, burial and resurrection was NO mistake. The only mistake is comes later, then theologians began to teach that the death, burial and resurrection accomplished something it could not do according to Torah requirements for a sin offering. But that does not diminish the significance of the death, burial and resurrection. It only means that this event has a different meaning – one which we must explore in order to understand why it has such an important place.
Wow, calm down Carl. What did he say here that denied the atonement? Do you think that Skip has never read or considered the verses you are quoting? Maybe he just went off his rocker, but at least wait until tomorrow for “Rabbi Idontcare” to finish the point.
I’m not exactly sure where this is going either. But why don’t we give the benefit of the doubt first,… then we can all skewer this guy. 😉
I am waiting myself. 🙂 Please don’t imagine that I have all the answers, but at least I can help us understand the questions.
It doesn’t seem to be a question of skewering him-after tarring and feathering and having him drawn and quartered, but only if the skewering is it to be done “on a cross or an upright stake (Gk stauros)?”
My belief is that Yeshua will one day soon-on the feast day of Yom Kippur-(not the one upcoming necessarily) gather His elect in the heavenly temple and sprinkle both His people and the temple with his shed blood thus fulfilling the Torah requirement of Leviticus 16 and elsewhere. YHWH is not bound by the constraints of space and time as we are, thus it can be both ” slain from the foundation of the earth” and a yet to be event, but to Him it is all one in the same. I don’t see a problem with the cross, the blood or the death, burial and resurrection, unless you want to invent one through theology or logic to support your views. Still I look forward to Part 2 and the commentary it inspires… or conspires! Michael
Was Yeshua not the lamb slain from the foundation of the world, was it not then that His blood was sprinkled on the alter in heaven? Is the cross not just an instrument of death, brutal death, the opposite of the more humane way the sacrifice was normally killed, to accomplish the death and perhaps show how horrendous a fate, we as sinners, willful sinners, deserve?
Who can say, “I will do as I choose, ignoring the plain dictates of the most high God” and not know that they deserve to be hung on a tree? The cross is an object lesson for the people who would look on the pole, the blood was shed a long time ago.
Was it a cross or an upright stake (Gk stauros)?
In the end does it really matter if it was a cross or a stake? But if it were a stake then his hands would have been above his head most likely only one nail would have been needed to bind them to the stake. Yet in John 20:25, John uses the plural word for nails or spike which does open the possibility that it was a cross.
There is archeological evidence also that has been found that also suggests that the crossed beams where used by the Romans for crucifixion.
I just have to ponder all these things while reflecting on these verses and things…..
1 Corinthians 1:17–25 (CJB) — 17 For the Messiah did not send me to immerse but to proclaim the Good News—and to do it without relying on “wisdom” that consists of mere rhetoric, so as not to rob the Messiah’s execution-stake of its power. 18 For the message about the execution-stake is nonsense to those in the process of being destroyed, but to us in the process of being saved it is the power of God. 19 Indeed, the Tanakh says, “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and frustrate the intelligence of the intelligent.” 20 Where does that leave the philosopher, the Torah-teacher, or any of today’s thinkers? Hasn’t God made this world’s wisdom look pretty foolish? 21 For God’s wisdom ordained that the world, using its own wisdom, would not come to know him. Therefore God decided to use the “nonsense” of what we proclaim as his means of saving those who come to trust in it. 22 Precisely because Jews ask for signs and Greeks try to find wisdom, 23 we go on proclaiming a Messiah executed on a stake as a criminal! To Jews this is an obstacle, and to Greeks it is nonsense; 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, this same Messiah is God’s power and God’s wisdom! 25 For God’s “nonsense” is wiser than humanity’s “wisdom.” And God’s “weakness” is stronger than humanity’s “strength.”
Exodus 24:3–8 (CJB) — 3 Moshe came and told the people everything ADONAI had said, including all the rulings. The people answered with one voice: “We will obey every word ADONAI has spoken.” 4 Moshe wrote down all the words of ADONAI. He rose early in the morning, built an altar at the base of the mountain and set upright twelve large stones to represent the twelve tribes of Isra’el. 5 He sent the young men of the people of Isra’el to offer burnt offerings and sacrifice peace offerings of oxen to ADONAI. 6 Moshe took half of the blood and put it in basins; the other half of the blood he splashed against the altar. 7 Then he took the book of the covenant and read it aloud, so that the people could hear; and they responded, “Everything that ADONAI has spoken, we will do and obey.” 8 Moshe took the blood, sprinkled it on the people and said, “This is the blood of the covenant which ADONAI has made with you in accordance with all these words.”
Colossians 1:15–20 (CJB) — 15 He is the visible image of the invisible God. He is supreme over all creation, 16 because in connection with him were created all things—in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, lordships, rulers or authorities—they have all been created through him and for him. 17 He existed before all things, and he holds everything together. 18 Also he is head of the Body, the Messianic Community—he is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he might hold first place in everything. 19 For it pleased God to have his full being live in his Son 20 and through his Son to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace through him, through having his Son shed his blood by being executed on a stake.
1 Peter 1:17–25 (CJB) — 17 Also, if you are addressing as Father the one who judges impartially according to each person’s actions, you should live out your temporary stay on earth in fear. 18 You should be aware that the ransom paid to free you from the worthless way of life which your fathers passed on to you did not consist of anything perishable like silver or gold; 19 on the contrary, it was the costly bloody sacrificial death of the Messiah, as of a lamb without defect or spot. 20 God knew him before the founding of the universe, but revealed him in the acharit-hayamim for your sakes. 21 Through him you trust in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory; so that your trust and hope are in God. 22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth, so that you have a sincere love for your brothers, love each other deeply, with all your heart. 23 You have been born again not from some seed that will decay, but from one that cannot decay, through the living Word of God that lasts forever. 24 For all humanity is like grass, all its glory is like a wildflower— the grass withers, and the flower falls off; 25 but the Word of ADONAI lasts forever. Moreover, this Word is the Good News which has been proclaimed to you.
It is interesting that Peter describes the sacrifice as that of the lamb..was not the lamb sacrificed and the blood put on the door posts of each home of the Hebrews to save them from the angel of death. Where is the alter there?
I also have to ponder the Hebrew alphabet and why in the original paleo-hebrew the last letter which is the TAV looks like crossed sticks
Can’t help you with the last letter of the Hebrew aleph-bet, but I would suggest that if you read the above passages as a first century rabbi who understood the theology of substance and shadow, you might conclude that the death on the cross was the guarantee that the sacrifice which took place in heaven on the heavenly altar was sufficient. What happens becomes a LOT MORE COMPLICATED when we unravel the requirements of a sin offering from the historical event of the crucifixion. Anyway, let’s see where all of these comments might lead us.
Once again another great study…I can’t wait for tomorrow. Clarity is so good. Thanks Skip
Blessings to you and all of those reading this. I’m rationalizing as a 21st centuty christian and according to what I’ve been taught because I don’t even know how to start an exegesis; but for me the conclusion about of what was needed is dead is because first of all Yeshua did not shed his blood on the crucifixion process, I imagine not blood enough to be collected on a base, and also since there is no temple or altar the cross comes to be a substitute and there is also as you asked a hint of anti-semitism in all of this or we don’t understand anything at all ’cause we have wondered away from the root like Israel so often did. Now I’m going to look for a therapist. Thanks
Yes, therapy of a very special kind. We have expressed the idea that the cross is the reason for the forgiveness of sin so many times that we stopped asking whether or not it fit the requirement of a sin offering. When you really look, something else must be happening. That raises the very interesting and important question, “Why did Christianity make the cross the central focus of its faith?” Time for a therapist.
I wonder if verses like Gal 6:14 contributed to this doctrine.
Galatians 6:14 (CJB) — 14 But as for me, Heaven forbid that I should boast about anything except the execution-stake of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah! Through him, as far as I am concerned, the world has been put to death on the stake; and through him, as far as the world is concerned, I have been put to death on the stake.
CJB = Complete Jewish Bible???
The translation doesn’t swing the vote one way or the other. It is not the EVENT that matters in this case but rather the PLACE where the sacrifice occurred. The event we witness in our human history is the manifestation of the guarantee that death and resurrection is a reality, but the forgiveness of sin is an entirely different matter, although obviously related.
CJB – Yes, Complete Jewish Bible. It just happened to be the version I was reading at the time.
Thanks Skip, I was not trying to swing the vote, I was just curious as to the how in the question “Why did Christianity make the cross the central focus of its faith?”
I see many today emphasize Paul’s writings over the teachings of Yeshua and wonder if some of the central focus on the cross comes from verses like the one I mentioned. I am sure there is a lot of complexity in exploring the dynamics and politics of the time period.
Skip,
Would it change your understanding of the “place” of the crucifixion if it was next to the altar for sin offering outside the camp/gate?
The place for capital punishment in Jerusalem. That is on the Mount of Olives.
The altar and the house of ashes were considered part of the temple area.
Yes, but that’s not the issue. The issue is how we interpret “before the foundation of the world.” And this phrase implies something about an altar that existed before the foundation of the world – not a cross. So, where was there an altar for sacrifice before the world was created? If you answer, “In heaven,” then why do we insist that forgiveness is accomplished on the cross? Something is certainly accomplished on the cross. Yeshua says so. But WHAT is it?
The cross is the shadow of the altar in heaven. The reality on earth of the reality in heaven.
I like the following interpretation by Marcus Borg:
If Jesus is the once and for all sacrifice for sin, understood metaphorically now, it means that God has already taken care of whatever it is that we think separates us from God.
It means that God accepts us just as we are and that the Christian life is not about getting right with God.
God’s already taken care of that.
The Christian life becomes about something else, namely, living within this framework of radical trust in God and relationship to God that makes possible our transformation. (personal)
And, ideally and ultimately, the transformation of the world. (public)
From this past week’s Torah portion:
“Fathers shall not be put to death for their sons, nor shall sons be put to death for their fathers; everyone shall be put to death for his own sin.” (Deut 25:16)
“By lovingkindness and truth sin is atoned for…” (Proverbs 16:6).
“That every man will turn from his evil way, then I will forgive their iniquity and their sin.” (Jeremiah 36:3).
Yeshua did not die in vain nor are the above scriptures vainly spoken by our Father. Yeshua did not die to annul our Father’s words. Any possibility christian theologians concluded wrongly about Yeshua’s death?
Carl…Before you tear your robe, let those who have ears listen or in this case read, as I know you will, what follows from Skip. Shalom my brother!!
couple of thoughts…
1. Jesus’ arrest, trial, execution and resurrection parallel the developments in Exodus from Egypt. After the Passover meal the Angel of death came for the firstborn at midnight. Interesting that Jesus was “handed over” to Satan in the Garden in the middle of the night. Only then was He subjected to abuse, torture and execution. In a real sense He was given up in our place to pay the ransom cost at that point in time.
2. The Garden of Gethsemane was on the lower side of the Mount of Olives. The Mount of Olives is where the Miphkad altar was located. This was the third altar of the Temple, located “outside the camp” where the carcasses of the Temple sacrifices were burned. It is also the place where the red Heifer was sacrificed to provide “waters of separation/purification” according to Numbers 19. This is actually the location where Jesus was executed “outside the camp” to the east of the Temple. The book of Hebrews goes on at some length explaining about the ashes of the heifer, going to Him “outside the camp etc” So His sacrifice did actually occur at the Altar (the third altar while outside the camp is actually considered part of the temple). Note that the priest doing the sacrifice that made everyone else “clean/pure” himself became unclean. Also the scarlet thread was tossed into the heifer burning. See Psalms 22 discussion of the “worm” that produced this scarlet dye for purification. Etc.
Here is the main point. The Jewish sacrificial system is about LIFE not DEATH. The life of the animal is in the blood according to Scripture. In the sacrifices what was being offered to God was LIFE. Jesus gave His life for us to become purified. That is what the “pouring out of His blood” is all about.
Yes, this is how I understand it as well, but still, wasn’t the red heifer sacrifice only for the atonement of Israel as a nation on Yom Kippur. And not for individual atonement of sin?
I also heard that this red heifer sacrifice was only done on 9 previous occations with Yeshua’s being the tenth – don’t know whether this is correct.
“wasn’t the red heifer sacrifice only for the atonement of Israel as a nation on Yom Kippur. And not for individual atonement of sin?”
Hi Luzette,
That’s a good point, although I don’t recall the red heifer sacrifice
I was basically trying to apply my interpretation of the text to myself
HSB
Thank you for the detail you provided. I posted a short post above on the same vain with out the details. It was after your comments, I hadn’t scrolled down to read the rest.
Shalom
Hmmm
If I may be a little provocative this morning
And draw an analogy with the movie called the Godfather
And try to answer the question “what difference did Jesus make”
Besides the historical ramifications, which were enormous
It seems to me that according to Hebrews 10:1 – 10-22
That because of Jesus we are no longer held responsible
For the sins of our “spiritual fathers”
The ancient Jews with their flirtation with Pagan gods
Sexual orgies and sacrificing babies for example
But we are still responsible for our own sins
And need God to forgive us
One difference between Jesus and Michael Corleone in the GodFather
Is that though they both “sit at the right hand” of the “GodFather”
Jesus will not become the GodFather, when the GodFather dies
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Hebrews – Chapter 10
Hbr 10:1 For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very [form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near.
Hbr 10:2 Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins?
Hbr 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year.
Hbr 10:4 For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
Hbr 10:5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says, “SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME;
Hbr 10:6 IN WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE TAKEN NO PLEASURE.
Hbr 10:7 “THEN I SAID, ‘BEHOLD, I HAVE COME (IN THE SCROLL OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME) TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.'”
Hbr 10:8 After saying above, “SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, NOR HAVE YOU TAKEN PLEASURE in them” (which are offered according to the Law),
Hbr 10:9 then He said, “BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL.” He takes away the first in order to establish the second.
Hbr 10:10 By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Hbr 10:11 Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins;
Hbr 10:12 but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD,
Hbr 10:13 waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET.
Hbr 10:14 For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.
Hbr 10:15 And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,
Hbr 10:16 “THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD: I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART, AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,” He then says,
Hbr 10:17 “AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.”
Hbr 10:18 Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.
Hbr 10:19 Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus,
Hbr 10:20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh,
Hbr 10:21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God,
Hbr 10:22 let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.
Do we have any evidence in the Tanak of Yeshua’s before-the-foundation-sacrifice? And are there any Rabbinic views on this?
Christ consented to death. Death on the cross, or stick, whatever the design, it was/is God’s overall design and purpose that is the important thing we must not miss.
The execution stake, the nails, the crown of thorns are only to bring into visibility something before these poor human eyes of ours. That ‘something’ is the unfathomable sorrows of God in Christ.
Look at the procession to the execution.
He sat with His disciples at the Paschal Feast, no food or drink had passed His lips.
He had been to Gethsemane, with its mystery of spiritual anguish, mental agony, and bodily strain.
He has been to the house of Annas and endured brutal buffeting before His trial.
Taken then to the palace of Caiaphas, to the first meeting of the Sanhedrin.
Then to the Praetorium, and He had been before Pilate.
Carried to Herod and been mocked.
He was operating in the eternal power of Redeeming Love.
It was with majesty that He walked the path to His execution — and our salvation.
Now the rulers scoffed at Him, saying He saved others, let Him save Himself.
It never entered their mind that the meaning of His Messiah-ship was not the saving of Himself, but the saving of others. He hung there, right before their eyes, the supreme evidence of Messiah-ship.
If Thou are the King of the Jews, save thyself, they said….
Their test of Kingship was the ability to take care of oneself. They did not know that the function of a King is to take care of His Kingdom and those who are members of it.
So clearly setforth here is hell’s selfish motto: “take care of self”.
He will take care of others and save others in place of Himself, and His Kingship is assured forever.
Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.
Do you think that prayer was received and granted?? Unquestionably. That does not mean every forgiven man entered into right relationship with God, but it does mean there was forgiveness for every man. Forgiveness was provided, not only those hammering the nails, but for all men everywhere. Forgiveness provided. The deepest will and purpose, and passion of God.
And of His Kingdom there shall be no end (no limit) The Kingdom of God, King of the Jews, God’s anointed and appointed King over all. The cross/stake, high on that hill, the lifted up throne of an imperial and eternal empire!
Amen.
Durn Skip — can’t you make like Paul Harvey and give us the REST of the story before some in the community go apoplectic on us? Just kidding but can’t wait to read the rest. Thanks.
Skip,
There is a mind boggling story promulgated by biblical archeologist Ron Wyatt that makes for an interesting point to ponder on this topic. Here it is for everyone’s consideration:
It is generally accepted that Jeremiah the prophet (on instruction from YHVH) had the Temple priests remove the Ark of the Covenant from the Temple, prior to the destruction of the Temple, and hide it away in one of the many tunnels dug under the Temple Mount. One of those tunnels supposedly extended to Golgotha. Wyatt’s story alleges that on Crucifixion Day, right after the great earthquake, the ground under the Cross cracked open and blood from Yahshua dropped through the opening onto the Ark’s Mercy Seat located in the tunnel below.
Could it be true? Of course! God has done much more amazing things….but alas we lack documentation in Scripture or other tangible evidence at this point. Wyatt is now deceased and he did not present any photographic or other support documentation for his story. Many scholars have also questioned Mr. Wyatt’s credibility as a biblical archeologist and were quick to write off his work on such projects as the location of Noah’s Ark, the location of the Exodus crossing point on the Red Sea and the location of Mount Sinai.
It has been reported that that due to the sensivity of the Temple Mount area, the Jewish authorities have not permitting any further exploration of the tunnels. What do you and other readers think?
Shalom,
John Walsh
The location of Jeremiah’s grotto according to Ron Wyatt was up near the Arab bus station near the place of the skull (two eroded pockets in the cliff-face) beside the Garden Tomb. This site was part of the original Mount Moriah according to Wyatt. However there is nothing in Jewish ritual that involves a northward orientation from the Temple. During the time of the Tabernacle and Temple the important direction was only eastward. Indeed God was considered to be “looking out” of the Temple through the east entrance. The Sanhedrin met at the Chamber of Hewn Stone beside the bronze altar location. Judgments thus were made “in the site of God”. Criminals with capital sentences would also be first excommunicated from the Camp of Israel and then taken outside the Camp eastward to be executed. That is what Hebrews is describing.
Lepers and other unclean folk were not allowed inside the city proper. They could approach as close as Bethphage the priest town that was located at the “camp” limit of 2000 cubits to be checked out by a priest. Yeshua’s sacrifice provided cleansing that allowed the unclean (folks that would be all of us) to enter not only the city of God but be reconciled to the Father.
Interesting that General Gordon of Kartoun fame who was an Anglican was denied entry into the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and that night had a dream vision. He saw a giant skeleton with the skull at the site of the Garden Tomb (so-called Golgotha) and the feet in the Pool of Siloam with the pelvis defecating on…you might have guessed it Temple Mount. No wonder they named the local gate Dung gate..it is where the early Byzantines dumped dung and assorted polluted clothes on Temple Mount Folks I am not making this up. We have drifted a long way from home!!!
Straying a bit from Skip’s focus point…but wanted to provide some background on Ron Wyatt’s claims.
Skip.. two more possibilities…
I already commented above on the execution of Yeshua at the site of the Miphkad Altar but there are two further sprinklings of blood that occur to me.
1. In the Garden Yeshua accepted his destiny in obedience to the Will of the Father. Hebrews 10:6-9 makes a big case for the submission of Yeshua “I have come to do your will!!” as better than burnt offerings and sacrifice. The author then immediately connects this with establishing the new covenant. Note also that at this very time in the garden there were great drops of blood that fell when he said “Not my will but thine be done”! His life (blood) was literally offered up to the Father. Satan’s hour was at hand/the angel of death waiting to take the firstborn as ransom payment.
2. Judas, according to Matthew 27:3-8, returned the “blood-money” to the chief priests. He then threw it into the Temple sanctuary. all 30 pieces of silver…like a splattering of blood hitting everything inside. This was subsequently collected and used to buy a field (Potter’s field) in the Kidron Valley. Interesting that is where the blood from the Bronze Altar sacrifices flowed through pipes after it was poured out at the base of the altar. So at least figuratively the ritual associated with sin offerings was followed as well.
Prior to this Yeshua on the night he was betrayed also used the “pouring out of blood” symbol in Matt 26:28 (for example “this is my blood which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins”). I look forward to your next submission!!!!
Why do you suppose Christianity substituted the cross for the altar?
Hmmm
I always associated altars with priests as a symbol of hierarchy
And the cross as a more democratic symbol of the masses
Everyone in the Church can carry a crucifix
But only priests and “higher ups” can say Mass
There is another possibility. if the Church fathers wished to move away from Judaism, they would need a substitute for the altar and the sacrifices. Doesn’t the emphasis on the one-time cross event fulfill this intention?
“if the Church fathers wished to move away from Judaism, they would need a substitute for the altar and the sacrifices. Does not the emphasis on the one-time cross event fulfill this intention?”
Hi Skip,
Yes. This issue takes us back quite a few years when I was arguing that from my reading of the text it was pretty clear that Paul had created basis for Catholicism
At that time I was reading a Jewish Marxist philosopher named Zizek who was arguing that Paul should be considered the cultural hero for our era (the New Age)
Although Zizek was friends with the professor I studied under, I thought Zizek was out of his mind (although he was obviously a brilliant man)
Now I know that the NT is a corrupted text
In the fourth century, the Church largely agreed to include Hebrews as the fourteenth letter of Paul
Jerome and Augustine of Hippo were influential in affirming Paul’s authorship, and the Church affirmed this authorship until the Reformation
But Paul did not write Hebrews, or some of his letters, as I now understand it
This is just some of my thoughts on this daily word. If the jewish laws were the standard then I guess they wouldn’t have needed to be changed. (I’m talking about the priesthood) The death on the cross was not only pointing forward toward the tearing of the veil, a sign of things to come and that now were. Jesus was the Lamb that was slain before the foundation of the world. (before time)
Otherwise Job would have perished. Jesus the Lamb did bleed, remember He took on humanity to “show us the way” and it pleased the Father to bruise Him, which is also bleeding. The temple was according to the pattern of Heaven, and so it is not the standard, heaven is. I know, they should look exactly the same, but unless we could see them as He sees them (the end from the beginning, including everyone’s perspective) it will remain some what of a mystery. Until we know Him as He knows us. I hope I have the freedom to write these things even knowing most of you are much more able to substantiate your comments, I would love to hear your thoughts. I am not arguing, just thinking.
And while you are just thinking, think about this: What does it mean to say “before time”? Is there any HUMAN description that can explicate these words intelligibly? Take a look at my book, God, Time and the Limits of Omniscience.
You sound like that camel with flared nostrils? But for the sake of my pure heart, the meaning of “before time” means: before time began. “Beyond time” would mean: after time ends. Now, before I read your book, I understand both before and after time would mean eternity, and that would include all dimensions other than the dimensions within time, maybe it even includes time? Coming from a heavenly perspective, you wouldn’t use “before, or “after” to describe an eternally existing truth (like when the Lamb was slain) because heaven is not subject to time. Another reason the Lamb needed to be slain before the foundations of the world, is because time itself along with things encapsulated within time will someday pass away, but the slaying of the Lamb is not subject to time and will eternally exist. The offering of this sacrificial lamb of God was of another realm a heavenly realm and a without beginning or ending just like the order of Melchizedek, the laws of another realm govern eternity and all who are His. But we are in time and from our perspective, there is a beginning and an end, Alpha and omega is the all-inclusive Jesus. He created the concept of time and He gives us permission to see things through it.
I noticed you didn’t respond to any other points in my comment, but I see we are on the same page after reading your next daily word:) Shalom
Camel with flared nostrils? I’ve never been compared to that before. 🙂
Your comments about the spatialization fallacy regarding time (before and after are SPACE locations, not temporal ones) depends on a common Greek metaphysics about time. The Greeks viewed time as a river, thus implying constructions like “before”, “after” and “outside.” But technically none of these are correct. Furthermore, they lead to impossible complications life a God who is outside of time but still has temporal location (see Nelson Pike, God and Timelessness). Furthermore, in Hebraic thought time (there is no general word for time in Hebrew) is not conceived as linear but rather as spiral-cicular. Eternity is not “outside” of the temporal realm but merely the unending extension of succession. The idea that time can be created depends on MEASURING time in terms of property changes – again a Greek idea. But if we think of time as the succession of personality then its unending character is reflected in the person of God. Please consider reading the book. then we can discuss all the arguments, without camels.
The “missing” altar is the cross of the Chosen ONE. An altar is a meeting place between (holy) God and (sinful) man. The covering (or atonement) is blood. Always has been- always will be. From the first Adam to the Second, blood is the covering or atonement. Now wouldn’t it be nice and clean to have a bloodless Christianity. It just can’t happen. The offering of Cain was rejected and will be rejected every time. God does not change- this is one thing we all (hopefully) can agree on.. “I AM the LORD- I change not.
In the O.T. ( I have to tell this?) it was the blood of bulls and goats offered within the temple by the priests for the sins of the people and on the day of atonement (Yom Kippor) – it was the high priest only who went in alone to the Holy of Holies- the innermost, most sacred chamber of the temple. (Read the Book- it’s in there..).
Remember these words? ~ This is the New Testament ( the New Covenant) in my blood- drink ye all of it ~ We are partakers (figuratively) of His death, burial and resurrection. When He died, we died. We died to sin. Sin no longer has dominion over us because we are dead. For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God ~ (Colossians 3.3) ~ What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? ~ (Romans 6.1,2)
Read Romans chapters 6 through 8 and get a grip on these things! When He died, we died. We died “with Him!” Remember these words? ( I hope this is all starting to make sense..) “I have been crucified with Christ nevertheless “I” live, yet not “I” , but Christ.. Yes, He must increase, but “I” must decrease.. Less of me- more of Him! The Christian life in three words- “Not I- Christ” or better yet one word- “Christ!”
More “good news!”.. (it just keeps gettin’ better!) ~ And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit, who lives in you ~ (Romans 8.11)
Death-burial-resurrection- all three are necessary for life just as our body-soul-spirit- gotta have them all!
And again, and again, and again, the temple has been destroyed. Why was the veil of the temple town in two from top top bottom. Simply put… – all have access. Or in other words, “whosoever will may come” We have a High Priest and it is not the pope. He is a Priest forever after the order of Melchizedek. (My God is KING). Prophet-Priest-KING- that is who we crucified on Calvary’s cross. Lamb’s blood was shed for us during the week of Passover. There are no “coincidences” with God- His timing (have you noticed?) is always “perfect.” He always gives us “what we need, and when we need it.” During the feast of Passover in Jerusalem- the Lamb of God was slain.
–There is another possibility. if the Church fathers wished to move away from Judaism, they would need a substitute for the altar and the sacrifices. Doesn’t the emphasis on the one-time cross event fulfill this intention?–
so Christ was crucified to fulfill the evil desires (moving themselves away from Judaism) of the church fathers? (oy).
And if the (final) Sacrifice of the Chosen ONE was not sufficient for the sins of the world and further sacrifices were needed, then where today are those sacrifices for sin? – where is the High Priest to offer a sacrifice of blood upon the mercy seat? Pardon my ignorance (and it is deep!) but what do the Jews do on Yom Kippor? (the Day of Atonement).
The Day of Atonement has happened and it is both full and complete through the self-Sacrifice of the virgin-born Son of God. What does it mean “Christ was crucified from before the foundation of the world?” God knows our needs before we even have them, and He provides – always. He knows the “end from the beginning.” Nothing ever “occurs” to God. Calvary was not plan “B.”
Marvelous grace of our loving LORD,
Grace that exceeds our sin and our guilt!
Yonder on Calvary’s mount outpoured–
There where the blood of the Lamb was spilt.
Sin and despair, like the sea waves cold,
Threaten the soul with infinite loss;
Grace that is greater–yes, grace untold–
Points to the Refuge, the mighty Cross.
Dark is the stain that we cannot hide,
What can avail to wash it away?
Look! There is flowing a crimson tide–
Whiter than snow you may be today.
Marvelous, infinite, matchless grace,
Freely bestowed on all who believe!
You that are longing to see His face,
Will you this moment His grace receive?
Grace, grace, God’s grace,
Grace that will pardon and cleanse within;
Grace, grace, God’s grace,
Grace that is greater than all our sin!
– Julia H. Johnston
I love, love, love your energetic “right on” rebuttals!
*Tap Carl with a TW and out gush rivers of praise, adoration, and knowledge!*
Sometimes the simplest thing seems hardest for some to grasp. I knew what “from the foundation of
the world” meant the first time ever I read it, and I fell on my knees in wonder and worship.
[I really have never got up again either.]
I wonder if Adam and Eve had any trouble understanding why and how food and water was already available in the garden before they opened their eyes and became conscious of life? Do you think they might have studied long and hard into the night about God’s marvelous provision and wisdom?
According to H. Clay Trumbull in his fundamental work, Blood Covenant, is is not the death, per se, that satisfied the atonement requirements, but the giving of his life/blood. The life of the flesh is in the blood. The author of Hebrews states that Yeshua offered his blood on the heavenly altar of which the earthly one represented in form.
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption [for us]. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? Hebrews 9:12-14
what do we do with this: For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. Col. 1:19.
This certainly appears to say that there is something going on wiith blood shed at the cross. Skip, how does this fit in with what you are saying?
Great question. Let’s see who decides to respond while I am flying voer the Atlantic today.
doesn’t look like anyone took us up on this. Skip, if you have time????? Hope your transatlantic trip went well.
Skip said, :”might conclude that the death on the cross was the guarantee that the sacrifice which took place in heaven on the heavenly altar was sufficient.”
I would be so blessed if you could expand/expound on this thought, Skip. thank you.
Very challenging and thought-provoking, Skip, that is your trade-mark!
Challenging us to dig deeper, taking in more than plain spiritual milk of the Word.
The redemptive work did not stop at the offering of Meshiach’s life physically, it started before the foundation of the world, and when HE presented Himself to YHWH after His physical death.
The focus on the cross as a symbol of redemption, has become a stumbling block to the “Jews”, instead of our bringing forth the fruit of redemption through the transformation of our old natures, life-styles and mindsets. The Meshiach’s redemptive work is a continous process, it did not end, but began at His physical death. Only animal sacrifices are offered on the altar.
Looking forward to more from you, Skip, and what is on your mind!