Leaving South Africa Again
As I sit at the Johannesburg airport awaiting the flight to London, I reflect on the last 15 days here in South Africa. Because of YOU I was able to teach more than 600 people about the Genesis account of being human; what it means to be in God’s image. The response was dramatic. Many, many people found the insights into Genesis revolutionary and illuminating. Many discovered that Hebrew is an essential foundation for understanding the purposes of God. And because of YOU many are encouraged to study more.
I also had two days to film a significant travesty of corrupted power and the systematic abuse of one particular population at the hands of another. This will become apparent in the next few months as I produce a documentary on something the South African government and some in the world press refusing to admit. Why they cover this up is a story of political agendas riddled with racial tensions.
I want to thank you. In fact, the entire body of the Messiah thanks you for your assistance, support, prayers and encouragement in my efforts. He was glorified and He will be glorified.
Skip
Hi Skip
Thank you so much for visiting us in George, South Africa. I really enjoyed your talk and saw a perspective I had not seen before. You shared some hidden truths I had not seen before, and made the Word more alive and interesting than before!
I will be looking at your website and subscriptions to get more inspiration – it is wonderful to be excited about God’s word and message to us!
Hi Skip i’m one of the 600 people but not one that believes you. I was invited by a friend and are myself a teacher of the Bible. I curently wish to adress some key issues that i have with your teachings . Before i start i want to say i hope you respect a person who say straight forward what he wants to say. I’m one.
So far i’m conviced that you spread a false gospel, but i’m still in the proses of learning more about the hebrew roots movement. So i have some questions and would like it if you can answer me as short as possible please. I need to place the movement in either a Christian sect, occultic movement or Christian and i need some questions answered to do this or change my mind about the false gospel.
First question:
If i break or not keep Torah is it possible according to the Hebew roots movement to still receive eternal life?
Thank you
Christiaan
Dear Christiaan,
I don’t know what the “Hebrew roots movement” would say because I do not identify myself with whatever that is nor do I know much about it. All I know is what the texts says. So, with that in mind, I would direct you to Paul (not Moses) who says “for not the hearers of the law are justified before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.” Paul is the same man who claimed that he himself kept Torah and the traditions of the elders all his life (see his defense before Festus). Now if Paul is Torah observant and Yeshua is Torah observant, then what does that say about our responsibility?
Hi Skip
Sorry about the misunderstanding. I was invited to your presentation and all the people there that i knew were from the Hebrew roots movement so i assumed you were a teacher of the movement.
About your answer from Romans 2:13 “for not the hearers of the law are justified before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.” will it be right that i conclude: A person who do not do what the law says will not receive eternal life.
I would like to refer you to the greek texts and the hebrew thaught about Romans 1-3 and 2:13 in particular wich says not try to be doers but doers only.
Will you support my conclusion or not?
Love in Crist Yeshua
Christiaan
No problem about the confusion concerning Hebrew roots.
As for Romans 2:13, Paul is consistent in all his teaching. Those who follow Torah in whatever way possible as God leads will be justified. Those who refuse to follow Torah even though they know it is God’s way will not be justified seems to be the obvious conclusion. But you keep asking about “eternal life.” Am I to assume that you think Paul’s use of justified (Greek dikaiothesontai from dikaioo – a function of the Law (Torah) in all Hebrew thought) is directly related to the outpouring of God’s grace? If so, this is once more the confusion of hesed and hen.
Please consult Tim Hegg’s book The Letter Writer on this issue or any of the dozens of pages I have written about Law and Grace.
Thanks for continuing to dialogue.
As I mentioned in another reply, I am not familiar with the “Hebrew roots” movement enough to be able to assist you in your categorization. However, I can speak to your question.
If you do not keep Torah AFTER YOU HAVE COME TO UNDERSTAND IT AS GOD’S LIFE DIRECTION, then you injure yourself, insult God and harm the community. The key is coming to understand the role Torah plays. Most people who grew up in Christian circles believe that Torah (the Law) is opposed to grace and since grace is the necessary admission ticket to heaven and salvation, then keeping Torah opposes salvation. They cite, out of context, all kinds of verses to prove this. But they fail to see the Torah WAS NEVER ABOUT SALVATION! Torah is about living out the grace that I have experienced from God. Torah is the fulfillment of hesed, not hen (to use the Hebrew words). Hesed ALWAYS involves OBLIGATION and thus always involves the standard of keeping the commandments (and a lot more). Hen is free favor poured out. If you confuse these two, as Luther did, you will end up with a schism between them and see Law and Grace as competitive. But no Jewish scholar makes such an elementary mistake. I would refer you to the many writings on hesed on this web site for further amplification. But you were in the audience when I spoke about all this, so you must already know my position here.
Do those who do not keep Torah “still receive eternal life”? The answer is “Of course,” since “eternal life” is not a function of hesed. But that does not mean that you can ignore the reciprocal obligation of hesed toward the commandments and CONTINUE in God’s blessing. The entire biblical history of Israel is an example of those whom God favored (chose) and who did not keep Torah. God continually tried to bring them back into alignment with His commandments. If Torah is of no effect, then why did He bother?
Finally, if you wish to discount Torah because it is “Old Testament Jewish” and you are “under grace,” then please do what Jesus asks and keep the commandments He gives. In the New Testament you will find 1086 commandments. I suggest you keep them since Jesus Himself says that those who love Him will do so. Right?
Hi Skip me again Christiaan
Something else. I asked you to lay out the parrable in Mat. 13:44 and your view is that we [man ] must be willing to give up everything to receive the treasure eternal life.
The problem i have with your interpretation is that first if you are the man then you want the treasure you give up everyting to buy the land etc. It all gives me the impression that your mindset are not right Biblically or by being led by the Holy Spirit.
Let me give you the true outlay of the parrable as the Holy Spirit taught it to me. The man that wants the treasure is Father Yhwh. The field is the world. The treasure is us [man]. The price Father pays to buy the field John3:16 is His Son Yeshua.
In short you should decide who are being led by the Spirit of the living God Father Yhwh. Skip the salvation of your family friends and al those who follow you are on stake here. Please listen to what Father tells you about me and dont be afraid to change your way of interpreting scripture. I will help you as far as i can.
Love in Christ Yeshua
Christiaan
Dear Christiaan,
It is possible to read this parable as an allegory as you have done. In an allegory, each element of the parable has another (hidden) meaning. The Catholic Church used allegorical interpretation as the standard method of exegesis for centuries so you have good company. But few if any modern scholars endorse such a method unless the TEXT actually tells us that it is allegory and then further defines what the elements mean (e.g. the parable of the sower). The reason is obvious. I can take the same parable and interpret the symbols differently, deriving a different answer. This happens all the time with the symbols in the book of Revelation. I am sure you can appreciate this problem as any short history of exegesis will demonstrate its faults.
Furthermore, you seem to have incorporated another exegetical technique that results in the same insular (immune from criticism) teaching. You refer to “as the Holy Spirit taught me” as if the Spirit privately instructed you in the true meaning of these verses. But since not all believers agree with the meaning you derive, then are you prepared to say that all the rest of them are wrong because you alone have the Spirit’s ear? Of course, they would claim exactly the same thing about your views. As you can see, this approach, which I call “spiritual immediacy,” essentially claims that the person has some direct and immediate understanding of God’s thoughts. It is insulated from any criticism since GOD HIMSELF revealed it to the person. By the way, that also means it cannot be checked for truth.
So, if you want to claim that this is an allegory and that YOU ALONE have the correct interpretation, please go ahead. But then there is no point in asking me to defend my exegesis since you have it directly from God.
Shalom u’bracha,
My name is Julie-Claude i am french canadian, please forgive my english if it not writh well. i whant to share with you my experience in South Africa.
I just read your article about South Africa. I spend one month over there with my husband. It is true there something very abusive going over there. Here our story. My husband is an messianic jews from Ethiopian. He was editing and christian magazine and has to run away from his contry because the muslim gouvernament do not like his christian articles. He was arrested and bitted. He ran to South Africa because there an important Ethiopian community over there. He ask for a refugy status. For now 5 years he have an temporary refugy status and have to renew it every 3 month. With the human right he try to have a court decision for a permanent refugy status. He is still waiting. I whent over there to get married legaly. The home affaire give us a wedding date and said everything is fine. The 27 of august 2012 when we get there for the wedding date and things change. They stop everything and they not allowed us to get married. I came from canada with a friend and all the date and paper with Durban home affair was set since may 2012. The man in charge of immigration said we whant to know what the court say about your refugy status. But my husband still wait for the court decision. He ask my husband to meet him alone. he decline because we know the man will probabely ask him money. Everything is corrupt over there. For 2 weeks my hsuband try to fix things with home affair, immigration and human right without succes. We had an religious wedding and it will not recognize ligaly. We have a call to teach about the hebrew root of the church.
When i was there we saw in the news the educational minister close 27 schools. This country need to give education to his nation. In the country they stop provide villages with water. The people were starting mainifesting and the South African police shoot a man to calm the villagers. We heard that the indian over there spread the antisimitism ideology and tell africans, jews own everything and they whant ot rule South Africa. We know it is not true. This is the same false ideoligy it is spread is some countries. Now South African whant a new law, it’s to put all refugies in refugies camp. They did a great meeting and invite all refugies community to be part of this new law. My husband was invited to cover the event. There a lot of refugies over there. Rawda, congo, ethiopian and many others. People are very worry about this. Some of there have houses, famely and work, they can not see themself living in refugies camp.
We interced a lot over South Africa because we realise all the hurt, vangeance, bitterness against white people is now turn against there own people. This is very sad they are now slave from there anger and it is start destroying there own people. We pray that country need to found his idientity as nation in Yeshua and set free from any slavery in the heart and get there real freedom in Yeshua. Our wedding is very prophetic. We are 2 people coming from 2 differents country and never been in slavery. I am white and my husband is black. In Durban people look at us as weird people and they were very choc. We knew it is from G-d. We do not fully understand why G.d bring us in this country to get married but i beleive it was to testefy restoration and healing between black and white.
South Africa is a real beautiful coutry whit many potentiel but the gourvernement have a agenda not only against white people. The ange it’s growing against any other culture and even there own people especially the poor one.
In the love of Yeshua be bless,
Julie-Claude Seifu Legesse