What Do You Want? (2)
All his sons and all his daughters rose up to comfort him, but he refused to be comforted and said, “No, I shall go down to Sheol to my son, mourning.” Thus his father wept. Genesis 37:35 ESV
Sheol – Do you find it astounding and insightful that the word she’ol is derived from the verb sha’al? Sha’al is the verb that means “to ask, to inquire, to beg, to borrow.” It is the root of mish’alah, the word used in Psalm 37 for the “desires” that God will give us. But in this verse, the root word sha’al becomes the word she’ol, the word for the pit, the underworld, the place of the dead. Doesn’t it seem incredible that the word for desires from God has the same root as the place none of us want to go? How can these two ideas be derived from the same base?
It seems to me that this is another example of the nexus of what it means to be human. Sha’al is the crossroads between what I ask and desire of God and what I ask and desire of the world. I choose which direction. I do not choose the desires. Either God plants His desires in me so that I might choose His direction or the world (what Paul calls the flesh) puts those desires before me and begs me to choose that direction. She’ol is simply choosing a direction other than God’s.
C. S. Lewis once observed that hell is nothing more than the result of allowing men to choose what they truly desire. No man in hell can complain that he was sent there as punishment. He chose the route that took him there. Such a man would be punished to be in heaven where others constantly and consistently choose God’s way. The man in hell is choosing his way and hell is the only place where entirely fleshly desires are achieved. I didn’t say that an entirely fleshly desire is fulfilling or satisfying. It is not. It cannot be fulfilling because wherever there are two who can choose, one must be deprived of all that he wants if the other is to have all that he wants. So the choice of hell is the choice to be constantly and consistently deprived of all that one believes really satisfies. But it is nevertheless a choice. It is asking God to let me have my way no matter what the consequences. That’s why she’ol is derived from sha’al.
The direction of your life is determined by the choices you make. You cannot avoid these choices because choosing is part of being human. All you can do is allow the yetzer ha’tov to domesticate the yetzer ha’ra and go in God’s direction. It is a long and treacherous process, but God promises that it will be worth it, not because you will be rewarded (although you might be) but because through this process you will become human. What does this imply? That consistently choosing for myself ultimately makes me something other than human; something other than conformed to the image of His Son. Hell is not for human beings. It is for those who are no longer human beings.
Topical Index: she’ol, hell, choosing, sha’al, human being, Genesis 37:35
“That consistently choosing for myself ultimately makes me something other than human; something other than conformed to the image of His Son. Hell is not for human beings. It is for those who are no longer human beings.”
Hmmm
It is very difficult for me to think in such terms as “Hell is not for human beings.”
Hell is a metaphor for some experience that we have as human beings IMO
“This is the pits” is a metaphor for some negative experience, and I agree that it is bad feeling
But it does not necessarily have anything to do with the “yetzer ha’ra” IMO
One could be desiring and trying to implement God’s will at home or at work and end up in “Hell”
One could imagine for example an Israeli or Palestinian mother trying to care for her family
And a bomb blowing up half her house and killing half her children
It would seem likely to me that she would feel like Hell; Heaven would probably not be in her mind
I tend to think that when I choose God’s way I do it for myself, not for others
I do not typically lie, cheat, or steal because it creates bad feelings in myself and for others
And I don’t want people to think that I am stupid 🙂
But it is not that uncommon for me to feel like Hell
I believe that sheol is simply a word for the grave. David talked of not being able to praise Yah from sheol. I do not believe he was talking of hell as we know it. That too begs investigation. Originally in the English language the word hell meant the grave. Not sure what you are referring to here when you say hell. I think I know what C. S. Lewis was referring to, though I may be wrong. I do not read a lot of his stuff though have read some. Our concept of hell also come from paganism I fear.
Hi Lori,
My understanding of Hell is that it’s eternal separation from G-d.
Those who spend a lifetime rejecting Yah and his ways, ultimately get what they chose…eternal separation from their creator. Just exactly what that looks like has never been explained to me but “eternal separation” doesn’t sound good.
I’ve no idea if Skip or others have a different understanding, of Hell, but would welcome any thoughts/facts from anyone who wants to chime in.
I agree. Sheol is normally considered the “underworld” where both the wicked and the righteous go (in some state?) until the day of judgment. Our concept of hell certainly was embellished by pagan cultures, but we shouldn’t discount the syncretism that had already occurred by Yeshua lives. The Talmud clearly shows a more robust version of the afterlife than we find in the Torah, and Yeshua would have been quite familiar with that.
“Therefore, choose life, so that you will live, you and your descendants, loving YHWH your God, paying attention to what He says and clinging to Him – for that is the purpose of your life.” Deut. 30:19-20.
Yes! Choosing HIS ways leads to life, makes human and keeps me away from death/Sheol…
Thanks for the encouragement!
Folks, just a reminder..these concepts, ideas, precepts, words that we are studying day by day are not derived from any “word” study. As we look at the trees and study the trees, the leaves, the fruits, the roots, let us not forget the “Source” which we are studying.
Try to listen and actually hear what I am saying. It is this: It is NOT my opinion, that matters here. Do NOT listen to me,- BUT listen to the word of God. We believe in a Book, a very ancient book, but one that reads like tomorrow’s newspaper. It is not about movies I’ve seen, books I’ve read,even life experiences along the way.. yes, these all help to form my opinions and attitudes, emotions, etc.. but there is one thing that remains tested by time and that one thing is God’s Book, our Bible. I will say this as nicely, as “politically correct” as I know how and sincerely hope I do not offend anyone, but “we” ~ do err, not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God ~
Again, the very words of THE MESSIAH, “search the scriptures, (NOT newspapers, magazines, tv, movies, etc.), search the scriptures for these are they which testify concerning Me.” Are these my words? NO,- they are His words from His book, the God-breathed Book of Instruction, our Bible.
Well, I think.. STOP. (Don’t stop thinking!) , but ~ think on these things..~ What things?
What? Have you been employed by the “thought police?” I would love to be, but no, I am not. However, I would love to ~ bring into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ ~ Do these words (even) sound familiar to anyone? Or is there (as foretold in God’s own Book of life) today, ~a famine for the word of God? ~
~ Man ((I am one of those) shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God ~ And faith? Where does faith come from? Faith pleases God. (read Hebrews chapter 11) How does (any) man know this? Listen again, (for the first time?) to these God-breathed word(s).. “faith comes by hearing..”- AND hearing by the word of God. Now, let’s tie a knot “good and tight,” -right here.
God has spoken unto us in these last days by His Son, (who Himself is the incarnate Word) and He has said, (I nearly know we pay attention to His words- don’t we?)- ~ I have come that you (all) might have life, and have it to the full, and ~ the words (the word of the LORD) I speak unto you, they are spirit (breath) and they are life. Ignore this Book at your own peril, and please, do not be one of those who are (amazingly) ~ willingly ignorant..~ Why would anyone want to be “willingly ignorant?” (2 Peter 3.5)
I can think of many “politically incorrect” names, but I’ll (at this time) “stand down..”
~ The word of the LORD endures forever ~ Again, and again, and again.. and… are these my words? Is this my “opinion?” Somebody is trying really hard to make a point.. These words are NOT my words, these words come from a Book- a book of instruction, the Owner’s Manual, that has been given unto “whosoever will”, unto whosoever has ~ ears to hear and a heart to obey ~
Now to sum it up. (far too “wordy” – amen?) How about the sum of all things? Distilled to one word. A very familiar (albeit foreign) word. “Shema.”
Shema, (in Hebrew, of course!) would be translated into our English, (a horrible language!)- hear and obey. Shema has a dual meaning, as do many Hebrews words, but this word “shema” is the one source of blessing. Even “blessing” (in Hebrew, of course) has a dual meaning,- do you know this word? -and know the two meanings? Again, ~you do err, not knowing the scriptures nor the power (authority/dominion/might/ability) of God ~
~ Receive with meekness the engrafted word which is able to save your souls ~ My words? NO. His words, the words that are found, bound in His Book,- the “Blessing Book,”- our Bible.
These two have married
and no man can part,
dust on the Bible,
and drought in the heart.
What are God’s instructions to us? (shall we try this again?) ~ study your magazines.. er.. study your tv.. er.. study any other distracting, but so entertaining, amusing thing.. er.. (err) ~ study the scriptures, for these are they which testify concerning ME. ~ (John 5.39)
Out of the billions of people on this green planet, how many, even know who “ME” is? And how well do I know Him? ~ That I may know Him..~ (Philippians 3.10) His promise? ~ Ask, and you will receive, seek and you will find.. knock and it shall be opened (revealed) unto you ~
Here is a man, a very wise man- who started well, but did not finish well. We know his name and we know his story, for ~ it is written ~
(1 Chronicles 28:9) ~ And you, my son Solomon, acknowledge the God of your father, and serve (avad) Him with wholehearted devotion and with a willing mind, for the LORD searches every heart and understands every motive behind the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever ~ Solomon, what happened? What is the story of your life? What was it that distracted you? And how well did you “shema” the Torah of YHWH? for ~ the Torah of ADONAI is perfect ~ Did you not remember the words of your father? ~ As for God, His way is perfect; the word of the LORD is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in Him ~ (Psalm 18:30)
And.. action! Today, I will..
~ Serve/worship/avad the LORD with gladness! Come into His presence with singing! Know that the LORD, He is God! It is He who made us, and we are His; we are His people, and the sheep of His pasture. Enter into His gates with thanksgiving, and into His courts with praise: be thankful unto Him, and bless His name. For the LORD is good; His lovingkindness(es) are everlasting and His (covenant) faithfulness is to all generations ~ (from Psalm/Song 100)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNSVnbV0dS4
Excellent! We recently left a church because of their rigid and dogmatic position on election, but that is another story. I believe that, somehow in God’s design, both election and choice do not conflict but compliment each other in a beautiful dance! I say this is because I have come to the conclusion that everyone who will be in hell will be there by choice. Your comments today fit completely with this position.
I have so enjoyed your meditations. Thank you and bless the LORD!
Psalm 1:6 For the LORD knows the way of the righteous, but the way of the ungodly will perish.
On a little different trajectory, here is an article on Resurrection that speaks of Sheol at the beginning of the article. There are some that might find this enjoyable. The link:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0017_0_16664.html
Three different contributors:
Moshe Greenberg
Daniel Boyarin
Seymour Siegel
Skip this is interesting. I was just having a discussion with a friend on a related subject.
Could this idea transfer over to Lu 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer:
Desired 1937 ἐπιθυμέω epithumeo ep-ee-thoo-meh’-o
from 1909 and 2372; TDNT-3:168,339; {See TDNT 316} v
AV-desire 8, covet 3, lust 3, lust after 1, fain 1; 16
1) to turn upon a thing
2) to have a desire for, long for, to desire
3) to lust after, covet
3a) of those who seek things forbidden
“Being out of alignment with God’s will is itself a punishment according to the Torah.” (WIKI)
Hmmm
Maybe Gehinnom is a good term for Hell in Judaism
Gehinnom is the name given to Hell in the Rabbinic literature
I can see “him no go hOm” in this world, I mean word, and as we know, home is where the heart is or am in Judaism
I am and Shalom are two very important worlds, I mean words, in Judaism
Of course
Early Judaism had no concept of Hell
though the concept of an afterlife was introduced during the Hellenic period, apparently from neighboring Hellenistic religions.
It occurs for example in Book of Daniel. Daniel 12:2 proclaims “And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.”
Judaism does not have a specific doctrine about the afterlife, but it does have a mystical/Orthodox tradition of describing Gehenna.
Gehenna is not Hell, but originally a grave and in later times a sort of Purgatory where one is judged based on one’s life’s deeds, or rather, where one becomes fully aware of one’s own shortcomings and negative actions during one’s life.
The Kabbalah explains it as a “waiting room” (commonly translated as an “entry way”) for all souls (not just the wicked).
The overwhelming majority of rabbinic thought maintains that people are not in Gehenna forever; the longest that one can be there is said to be 12 months, however there has been the occasional noted exception.
Some consider it a spiritual forge where the soul is purified for its eventual ascent to Olam Habah (heb. עולם הבא; lit.
“The world to come”, often viewed as analogous to Heaven). This is also mentioned in the Kabbalah, where the soul is described as breaking, like the flame of a candle lighting another: the part of the soul that ascends being pure and the “unfinished” piece being reborn.
According to Jewish teachings, hell is not entirely physical; rather, it can be compared to a very intense feeling of shame.
People are ashamed of their misdeeds and this constitutes suffering which makes up for the bad deeds.
When one has so deviated from the will of God, one is said to be in gehinom.
This is not meant to refer to some point in the future, but to the very present moment.
The gates of teshuva (return) are said to be always open, and so one can align his will with that of God at any moment.
Being out of alignment with God’s will is itself a punishment according to the Torah.
“the concept of an afterlife [in Hell] was introduced during the [Hell]enic period”
Mythologically speaking, I’m wondering if Helen is a sort of Greek counterpart to the Hebrew Eve…
During the fall of Troy, Helen’s role is ambiguous. In Virgil’s Aeneid, Deiphobus gives an account of Helen’s treacherous stance: when the Trojan Horse was admitted into the city, she feigned Bacchic rites, leading a chorus of Trojan women, and, holding a torch among them, she signaled to the Greeks from the city’s central tower.
In Odyssey, however, Homer narrates a different story: Helen circled the Horse three times, and she imitated the voices of the Greek women left behind at home—she thus tortured the men inside (including Odysseus and Menelaus) with the memory of their loved ones, and brought them to the brink of destruction.
In both cases however, Helen gives the men Hell