Christian Darwinians
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; Romans 8:29 NASB
To become conformed – Are you being transformed into the character and behavior of Yeshua? Before you answer, you might want to carefully consider what this means. One path of thinking appears to be noble, virtuous and spiritual. But investigation could lead us to conclude that it is, in fact, the polar opposite of the biblical text. We must proceed with caution here.
When we think about Paul’s use of the Greek verb symmorphizo ( to be conformed to), we often picture the goal as being the perfect human. Since sin represents what brings death, we imagine that being conformed to the image of God in His Son must be something like the picture of Adam in the Garden. Perfect relationship. Perfect health. Perfect obedience. Perfect understanding. The epitome of mind, body and soul in absolute harmony with God and the world. In other words, human perfection!
But this is a problem, isn’t it? To be conformed to the image of His Son includes suffering, rejection, injury and death. In another letter, Paul makes this abundantly clear just in case we decided to interpret these words as if they had only spiritual or eschatological meaning. “[T]hat I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death” (Philippians 3:10). The same verb as the one in our verse from Romans. Certainly not a picture of human perfection, is it? Those who have decided that conformity to the image of the Son means achieving all of our imagined perfection are really Christian Darwinians. They believe in the evolution of the spiritual man toward perfection. How is this any different than the social and species evolution Darwin proposed? Yes, we may couch it in theological terms, but the idea is the same. We are progressing toward a higher existence of our own imagination. We project the powers and pleasures of the Greek gods and then assert that YHWH is inevitably moving us toward utopia. Few of us are willing to actually read the text and realize that God’s view of conformity leads to death.
I wonder if the argument over the meaning of Genesis isn’t a bit misdirected. Perhaps we should shift the argument from the beginning to the end. Then we could all agree. Mankind is moving toward perfection. God is assisting us in the pursuit of our own highest ideals. Evolution is the process, both spiritually and physically, that takes us there. Why quibble over how things began when we are in basic agreement about how they will end – in the glory of Man!
If the Hebraic view of the world is truly opposed to the Greek view, then don’t we have to rethink what we mean by symmorphizo? Do we really believe that the goal of God’s plan is our perfection? Or have we simply created Man in our own image?
Topical Index: conform, symmorphizo, perfection, Romans 8:29, Philippians 3:10
Skip,
“God’s view of conformity leads to death.” Of the old man (self) or the new man (self)?
Col 3:10 and have put on the new self, which is continually being renewed in fuller and fuller knowledge, closer and closer to the image of its Creator.
Yes, to death of the old man, but that death is ESSENTIAL for any new life. So the question is this: if we decide not to die to the ways of the world, including the ways of the religion that we have created, can we hope to be raised to the life of the new man?
Sha’ul argues this very issue in Romans 6. See this verse, for example: 4 We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Sha’ul is of the opinion that our baptism buried the old man into death with the Messiah, and his resurrection raised us to newness of life. It appears we may need to reevaluate the implications of our baptism.
Is there something real in baptism that we are ignoring?
Is it not true that Paul pressed on to the mark of his high calling with his eyes fixed on Jesus/Yeshua. Was he not looking forward to the day that he would be absent from the body and present with the LORD? Does not our suffering lead to patience, endurance, etc. and the death of our flesh/sin nature the strengthening of our spirit? Or is this all greek thinking too? Do I have this all wrong? I spend a lot of time trying to be “better” to act and think and respond to people like Yehsua would (I have a looong way to go). Is this all off? What is the alternative?
Thanks.
While I will need more time to respond fully, I beg you to rethink the “sin nature” idea, conveniently imported into the text by NIV translators. I have written a lot on this THEORY, showing that it has little basis in the Torah. Let’s start by correcting this since it will have a big impact on all the rest.
Skip,
One of my favorite (obviously) “Today’s Word” was “Original Art”…..Yes it had me “jumping” but not “off the roof tops”:-) This has become a major point of refrence in some of my teaching, and it has been wonderful to have this knowledge of the Hebrew in teaching from this very verse.
However it seems in direct contrast to what you have posted today. Am I missing something?
“Since sin represents what brings death, we imagine that being conformed to the image of God in His Son must be something like the picture of Adam in the Garden.”
Verses (or so it seems)
“It (image) means that the perfect creation of Man found in the purposeful act of God in Genesis 1:27 will be restored. God intends to bring back the original work of art He made in Adam – the image bearer.”
I can only resolve the difference in that we THINK there will be no suffering to get us back to the garden. However if garden communion with Father and the garden image is where we are headed, and it is only found in His Son then that WILL mean suffering and yes death. If thats the case then today is my second fav…..in a morbid kind of way :-/
Thanks,
David
I believe that the problem is that most think the work of completing us as children of the Most High is something we must do ourselves. Scripture makes it abundantly clear, to me at least, that the changing of our nature from flesh to spirit is something only the Almighty can do. When does this change come? When one is filled with the Holy Spirit. That is not to say that we can not, or don’t, exhibit traits of being one of his children now. But, when one has been given the Holy Spirit, without measure, like Yeshua, John the Baptist, the disciples on the day of Pentecost, there will be a spiritual transformation unknown to us today. This spiritual transformation will take away the need to sustain this life above all else. The world to come will become of utmost importance and this present life will dwindle in importance. The trials and tribulations that inevitably come upon those that now walk in the footsteps of Messiah become necessary for one to become complete in Messiah. Those that think they can achieve perfection or completeness through simply willing it so are missing the mark in my opinion, and are reaching for a worldly version of godliness.
For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined. It all falls on where you put your emphasis in the sentence. That’s where the reformers got stuck! And so we have the Calvinistic error of the doctrine of predestination.
Skip in a former TW you said “In Hebrew there are really only two verb tenses; complete actions and incomplete actions”
I love that!
I tend to see things in an either or kind of way. That’s why it took me so long to come to the idea of going back to the old paths in a literal sense. Even though I read that there are many ways that lead to destruction, I wasn’t looking for the one way that leads to life in the pure word but in the translation(sssss) of it by the Church.
So we jump from one deception to another within the church. We can’t conceive of the idea that none of us has gotten it right. Right of course being our Greek concept of right. We believe THE LIE that in order to fulfill our purpose we must disobey God. Did He really say THAT? He knows that there is another way, a short cut. And so we continue to exalt the creature over the Creator.
Only until I started thinking in terms of G-d’s word vs. man’s did I realize that the broad way encompassed the church as well as present day Judaism and everything else. It became clear that the pure word of scripture is the only safe course of action for a disciple of the Messiah.
It also became clear that I had to redefine safe. Safe from what? Safe from persecution? Apparently not.
Safe from the wrath to come and utter destruction? Ah ha! That’s another thing entirely.
Another concept you’ve brought to the table was the difference between morality and Holiness. Morality is defined by man and has the power to circumvent persecution where as Holiness is defined by Elohim and tends to bring persecution on. However it is our shield against the wrath to come at our Lord’s second advent.
In the Garden of Eden The commandment was to eat from all the trees except for one. Outside of the garden we are commanded to eat from only one tree and the rest are forbidden. It finally occurred to this thick headed little creature that obedience leads to salvation. Whether the command is eat all but one or, eat one and not the others, obedience is our shield.
Israel experienced this in the wilderness. One day He told them to go into the land and they refused. The next day He told them not to go and they refused. The commands were opposite each other but both were commands for that day. Give us this day our daily Bread. Go, Don’t go. Eat, Don’t eat. If we obey His word is our shield.
I don’t know if the Kingdom of G-d = the Garden of Eden. My personal opinion is that the Garden was the groundwork for the Kingdom and is encompassed by the kingdom. Torah is the constitution of the kingdom that is the penultimate revelation/representation of the King and Creator of it all.
We represent Him in this world and bring the hope and opportunity of entering into the world to come for all who will.
So for me the either/or goes like this. Either we add what we like to, or take away what we don’t like from Torah (which creates a misrepresentation of Him and a god made in our own image) and we bring a false god and false hope to a dying race. I want nothing to do with that!
Or we die to ourselves and seek to conform to the image of Torah incarnate bringing the revelation of the true Messiah to the nations in Spirit and in truth and we bring life to a dying race.
I choose life!
Dear Skip,
Thanks so much for correctly pointing out the very real connection between Romans 8:29 and Philippians 3:10 [Compare also the thoughts in Galatians 2:20 and 6:14]. Being conformed to the image of HaShem’s own dear Son is the very opposite of being conformed to this world/age… It is to be transformed by the renewing of our minds to prove what is that good, acceptable and perfect will of G-d in our lives. (Romans 12:1,2; Philippians 2:13).
Surely Yeshua’s intent for His people in this present age [ha-‘olam hazzeh] is that they are to be prepared for the glorious Age to Come [ha-‘olam ha-b’a], when He will be revealed in all His glory as “Him who fills all in all” and the Son of Him who is All in All (Ephesians 1:23; 1Corinthians 15:22-28; Psalm 2:7-12).
~ God’s view of conformity leads to death ~ Yes, and no.
Death (for the Christian) is NOT the end. Death is the doorway into Life. ~ I have been crucified with Christ..nevertheless I live..~ were these words for Paul only? are are they for us (who belong to Him)
~ Verily, verily, (truly,truly- amen, amen) I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit ~ (John 12.24)
In our world death follows life- with God, life follows death. It’s good day to die. Why? ~ to die is gain ~ For my life is The Messiah, and if I shall die, it is gain for me ~ (Philippians 1.21)
Who was the most “perfect” human ever to have lived? Is there any other answer, other than the Second Adam, the LORD Jesus, the Messiah Himself?
Yeshua HaMashiach, we must remember He was (and is!) a man,- fully man as if He were not God at all and yet, fully God as though He were not man at all.
He lived among us as a man would live, breathing the air He Himself created, eating our food, drinking what we would drink and working for thirty years in the woodshop of a Jewish carpenter, living in relative obscurity and anonymity, a most “ordinary” life.
But He spoke with such authority! ~ Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? ~ They were amazed at His teaching, because His message had authority ~ (Luke 4.32) ~ The guards were saying to them, “Never in this way has a man spoken as This Man speaks.” (John 7.46) Why would this be so? Is this another affirmation that God has become a Man, the Creator has become the creature who was in all points tempted just as we are, yet remains without sin?
He lived among us as a man would live, breathing the air He Himself created, eating our food, drinking what we would drink and working for thirty years in the woodshop of a Jewish carpenter, living in relative obscurity and anonymity, a most “ordinary” life.
By eating “our food”, do you mean pork and shellfish?? He would have at that point, been less than perfect, due to transgression of the Law, don’t you think? Would God Himself purposely choose to undo perfection through contradiction?
Obviously, Yeshua was Torah obedient. Therefore, His behavior was governed by culture and commandment.
Mary, -Yeshua HaMashiach, the Son of David, having been born to Jewish parents, was (and is) thoroughly Jewish. Why would He being a Jew and living in a Jewish home and culture eat pork and shellfish- or any other non-kosher food?
Skip and Carl,
Thanks to you both for your replies. My question in response to Carl’s comment was more for consideration of defining his phrasing of “our food”. I thought maybe some may think Yeshua would have joined in the feast of BBQ and shrimp while visiting with us here in Bible Belt USA. I have some friends who will not eat at certain places because of the pork and shellfish served on the premises.
Personally, I think Yehsua would dine with us at these very places just to BE with us, but choose vegan or another “clean” meat(if available) rather than indulge Himself by immersion into that aspect of “our culture”. And I think He would have done so without a fuss unless someone asked Him why He didn’t try the shrimp-n-grits. 🙂
Reminds my of a time when I did a conference in Houma, LA. The pastor took me out to dinner at Big Al’s (I think). It was a famous shrimp restaurant (as most places in Houma are). I ordered chicken. He asked me to pray for the food and I said, “Well, I can pray for the chicken but I can’t pray for the shrimp because it isn’t food.” We had an interesting conversation after that.
He ate the food that was available among His community and according to tHis time period. My statement regarding “our food” was to say “generically” the food, the meat of mank ind, referring to, the realization and remembrance of the humanity of our Messiah.
“to become conformed”
Hmmm
Makes me think of my 1st Today’s Word
To be pounded, conformed into, or forged into an image of steel
I still need a little more armor
“more armor”
a·mor
m.
(adoración) love
(afecto) affection
(querido) darling, beloved