A Public Display
He disarmed the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by triumphing over them in him. Colossians 2:15 ESV
Triumphing over – In the past few days, and over the last month or so, we have explored the meaning of the cross from a Hebrew perspective. Despite the popular claim that “Jesus” died on the cross for the forgiveness of sin, we find that the biblical text says something else. It says that forgiveness (atonement) has been available since before the foundation of the world although its full extent and deeper meaning has been progressively revealed to us over time. We also found that the cross is not a place of sin sacrifice but rather the manifestation of God’s redemptive work in the defeat of the consequences of sin, that is, the death of death. The cross demonstrates that God uses the tool of the enemy to overturn even the greatest threat of the enemy and in so doing establishes a kingdom like no other – an eternal and imperishable presence of the Lord of life.
Our investigation dealt with the mistake of reading the apparent future tense claims of New Testament passages as if they describe Greek static states rather than Hebrew dynamic processes. We didn’t examine all the passages but we saw enough to recognize that the claims that such-and-such will happen does not imply that it is not already present in its nascent form. This is particularly important in order to understand that the Bible is one book, not two testaments.
Finally we noticed that Yeshua Himself doesn’t point to the cross as a place of atonement. Instead, He directs us to Moses’ use of the nes as a symbol of God’s triumph over the pagan threat of death and He clearly states that His mission was to establish His rightful place as King in the eternal Kingdom. Since one of the key principles of biblical exegesis is that the Bible interprets the Bible (i.e., we look at other scriptures in order to understand a particular text), Yeshua’s claims have enormous weight in settling the question about the cross.
And then there is Paul. So much of Paul’s emphasis seems rooted in the cross, but perhaps Paul’s Jewish rabbinic perspective has been lost in our penchant to read into Paul what later Christian theology proposed. This verse in Colossians is a prime example. From an evangelical theological point of view, we are apt to claim that this verse is about Jesus’ triumph over sin. As my faithful antagonist says, “It looks like both atonement and the defeat of the demonic powers were accomplished by the cross.” But is this what the verse says? What is the object of the Greek verb thriambeuo (translated “to triumph over”)? Does this verse claim that Yeshua’s victory is over sin?
Let’s consider the opening verb (“having disarmed the powers”). Apekdyomai comes from two Greek words literally meaning “to strip away from.” According to this passage (verses 13-15), Yeshua stripped away (disarmed) the power of rulers and authorities in a publicly observable manner. They were put to shame, and in a Hebrew world, that means public shame, something that can be seen. This is not about invisible demonic forces. How would anyone know that they have been shamed? Where am I to look to see their crestfallen countenances? If rulers and authorities have been disarmed, what was taken from them? Certainly not their claims or superiority! What was taken from them is the ultimate basis of their power, that is, the threat of death! If a man does not fear to die because he is assured that the King of glory has granted him eternal life, is there any ruler or authority on earth that can compel his obedience? When Yeshua removed the consequence of sin, he stripped every earthly power of its ultimate threat. The triumph is His victory over the one thing that holds all unredeemed men captive – not sin but death. This triumph is public because the resurrection is a real, historical fact.
It seems so obvious when we look at the text. There is no mention of the cross, no mention of forgiveness of sin, no mention of demonic powers. Ah, but you object. The NIV translates this verse as “triumphing over them by the cross.” A quick review of the Nestle-Aland 27th edition of the Greek New Testament reveals no such wording in the text or in any alternate fragment of the text. In other words, those words “by the cross” have been added to the translation. The NIV makes a marginal note, “Or them in him,” but the marginal note is the correct reading, not an alternate. The NIV has deliberately altered the text, not on the basis of a possible alternate translation but on the basis of a theological bias for which there is no textual justification.
No wonder we think Jesus died on the cross for the forgiveness of sin. That’s what Christian theologians want us to think. What a mess! Of course, this raises an important question. If the text doesn’t contain “the cross,” why did the NIV translators feel it necessary to add these words?
So, why did Yeshua die on the cross? Paul does not say anything about atonement or forgiveness in this verse. He says that the supposed power of public rulers and authorities has been stripped away from them. And how do you suppose that happened?
Topical Index: cross, triumph, thriambeuo, disarm, apekdyomai, death, Colossians 2:15
I am still not completely convinced. What do I do with the references that point to Yeshua being the Lamb, the Pascha [passover]. Don’t they point to Him being the suffering Servant? [Isa 53?]
YLT Jn 1:29 on the morrow John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, ‘Lo, the Lamb of God, who is taking away the sin of the world;
YLT 1C 5:7 cleanse out, therefore, the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, according as ye are unleavened, for also our passover for us was sacrificed–Christ,
YLT 1C 15:3 for I delivered to you first, what also I did receive, that Christ died for our sins, according to the Writings,
1) The Lamb of God takes away sin
2) The Passover [Lamb] was sacrificed [the blood of the Passover caused the angel to pass-over]
3) Christ died for our sins.
Whether the cross is the place or not, He still died for our sins right? [Which happens to be on the cross]
I understand that He was slain from before the foundations of the world, but isn’t it remarkable that He died on Nissan 14 at the time of the Pesach sacrifice? There must be a connection.
Hello and Good Morning to all of you, specially to you Mr. Moen. And answering the last question of Today’s Word I dare to answer that that happened when our Lord died on the cross, the symbol of authority of the pagan rulers and authorities. And my answer to Rein de Wit, yes , Jesus (the Lamb) died for our sins but not on the cross. There He completed the redemption process because until then we were not able to freely come into His presence because we were defiled by death.
Gen. 3:15…..Seed of a woman (virgin birth)…..Luke 1:35, Mt 1:18-20
Gen. 3:15…..He will bruise Satan’s head…..Heb. 2:14, 1 Jn. 3:18
Gen. 5:24….The bodily ascension to heaven illustrated….Mk. 6:19
Gen. 9:26,27…The God of Shem will be the Son of Shem…Lu. 3:36
Gen. 12:3…As Abraham’s seed, will bless all nations…Acts. 3:25,26
Gen. 12:7…The Promise made to Abraham’s Seed…Gal. 3:16
Gen. 14:18…A priest after Melchizedek…Heb. 6:20
Gen. 14:18……..A King also……..Heb. 7:2
Gen. 14:18…The Last Supper foreshadowed…Mt. 26:26-29
Gen. 17:19…….The Seed of Isaac…….Rom. 9:7
Gen. 22:8…The Lamb of God promised…Jn. 1:29
Gen. 22:18…As Isaac’s seed, will bless all nations…Gal. 3:16
Gen.26:2-5….The Seed of Isaac promised as the Redeemer….Heb.11:18
Gen. 49:10….The time of His coming…..Lu. 2:1-7; Gal. 4:4
Gen. 49:10…….The Seed of Judah…….Lu. 3:33
Gen. 49:10……Called Shiloh or One Sent……Jn. 17:3
Gen. 49:10…To come before Judah lost identity…Jn. 11:47-52
Gen. 49:10…To Him shall the obedience of the people be…Jn. 10:16
Ex. 3:13,14……..The Great “I Am”…….Jn. 4:26
Ex. 12:5…..A Lamb without blemish…1 Pet. 1:19
Ex. 12:13…..The blood of the Lamb saves from wrath…..Rom. 5:8
Ex. 12:21-27…..Christ is our Passover…..1 Cor. 5;7
Ex. 12:46…..Not a bone of the Lamb to be broken……Jn. 19:31-36
Ex. 15:2….His exaltation predicted as Yeshua…Acts 7:55,56
Ex. 15:11….His Character-Holiness…Luke 1:35; Acts 4:27
Ex. 17:6…..The Spiritual Rock of Israel…1 Cor. 10;4
Ex. 33:19…..His Character-Merciful…Lu. 1:72
Lev.14:11….The leper cleansed-Sign to priesthood..Lu.5:12-14; Acts 6:7
Lev.16:15-17…..Prefigures Christ’s once-for-all death…Heb. 9:7-14
Lev.16:27…Suffering outside the Camp…Mt. 27:33; Heb. 13:11, 12
Lev.17:11…The Blood-the life of the flesh…Mt. 26;28; Mk. 10:45
Lev.17:11…..It is the blood that makes atonement…1 Jn. 3:14-18
Lev.23:36-37…The Drink-offering: “If any man thirst.” ..Jn. 19:31-36
Num. 9:12…Not a bone of Him broken…John 19:31-36
Num. 21:9…The serpent on a pole-Christ lifted up…Jn. 3:14-18
Num. 24:17…Time: “I shall see him, but not now.”…Gal. 4:4
Deut. 18:15…”This is of a truth that prophet.”…Jn. 6:14
Deut. 18:15-16…“Had ye believed Moses, ye would believe me.”…Jn. 5:45-47
Deut. 18:18…Sent by the Father to speak His word…Jn. 8:28, 29
Deut. 18:19…Whoever will not hear must bear his sin…Jn. 12:15,
Deut. 21:23…Cursed is he that hangs on a tree…Gal. 3:10-13
Ruth 4:4-9…Christ, our kinsman, has redeemed us…Eph. 1:3-7
1 Sam. 2:10…Shall be an anointed King to the Lord…Mt. 28:18; Jn. 12:15
2 Sam. 7:12…David’s Seed…Mt. 1:1
2 Sam. 7:14a…The Son of God… Lu. 1:32
2 Sam. 7:16…David’s house established forever…Lu. 3:31; Rev. 22:16
2 Ki. 2:11…The bodily ascension to heaven illustrated…Lu. 24:51
1 Chr. 17:11…David’s Seed…Mt. 1:1; 9:27
1 Chr. 17:12, 13a…To reign on David’s throne forever…Lu. 1:32, 33
1 Chr. 17:13a…”I will be His Father, He…my Son.”…Heb. 1:5
Job 19:23-27…The Resurrection predicted…Jn. 5:24-29
Psa. 2:1-3…The enmity of kings foreordained…Acts 4:25-28
Psa. 2:2…To own the title, Anointed (Christ)…Acts 2:36
Ps. 2:6…His Character-Holiness…Jn. 8:46; Rev. 3:7
Ps. 2:6…To own the title King…Mt. 2:2
Ps. 2:7…Declared the Beloved Son…Mt. 3;17
Psa. 2:7, 8…The Crucifixion and Resurrection intimated…Acts 13:29-33
Psa. 2:12…Life comes through faith in Him…Jn. 20:31
Psa. 8:2…The mouths of babes perfect His praise…Mt. 21:16
Psa. 8:5, 6…His humiliation and exaltation…Lu. 24:50-53; 1 Cor. 15:27
Psa. 16:10…Was not to see corruption…Acts 2:31
Psa. 16:9-11…Was to arise from the dead…Jn. 20:9
Psa. 17;15…The resurrection predicted…Lu. 24:6
Psa. 22:1…Forsaken because of sins of others…2 Cor. 5:21
Psa. 22:1…Words spoken from Calvary, “My God…” Mk. 15:34
Psa. 22:2…Darkness upon Calvary…Mt. 27:45
Psa. 22:7…They shoot out the lip and shake the head…Mt. 27:39
Psa. 22:8..” He trusted in God, let Him deliver Him “…Mt. 27:43
Psa. 22:9……Born the Saviour……Lu. 2:7
Psa. 22:14…Died of a broken (ruptured) heart…Jn. 19:34
Psa. 22:14,15…Suffered agony on Calvary…Mk. 15:34-37
Psa. 22:15……..He thirsted……..Jn. 19:28
Psa. 22:16…They pierced His hands and His feet….Jn. 19:34,37;20:27
Psa. 22:17,18…Stripped Him before the stares of men…Lu. 23:34,35
Psa. 22:18…..They parted His garments…..Jn. 19:23,24
Psa. 22:20,21…He committed Himself to God…Lu.23:46
Psa. 22:20,21..Satanic power bruising the Redeemer’s heel..Heb. 2:14
Psa. 22:22…..His Resurrection declared…..Jn. 20:17
Psa. 22:27…He shall be the governor of the nations…Col 1:16
Psa. 22:31……“It is finished”……Jn. 19:30
Psa. 23:1….”I am the Good Shepherd”….Jn. 10:11
Psa. 24:3……His exaltation predicted……Acts 1:11; Phil. 2:9
Psa. 30:3……His resurrection predicted……Acts 2:32
Psa. 31:5…”Into thy hands I commit my spirit”…Lu. 23:46
Psa. 31:11…His acquaintances fled from Him…Mk. 14:50
Psa. 31:13…They took counsel to put Him to death…Jn. 11:53
Psa. 31:14,15…”He trusted in God, let Him deliver him”…Mt. 27:43
Psa. 34:20…..Not a bone of Him broken…..Jn 19:31-36
Psa. 35:11….False witnesses rose up against Him….Mt. 26:59
Psa. 35:19…He was hated without a cause…Jn. 15:25
Psa. 38:11…..His friends stood afar off…..Lu. 23:49
Psa. 40:2-5…The joy of His resurrection predicted…Jn. 20:20
Psa. 40:6-8….His delight-the will of the Father….Jn. 4:34
Psa. 40:9….He was to preach the Righteousness in Israel….Mt. 4:17
Psa. 40:14…Confronted by adversaries in the Garden…Jn.
Psa. 41:9…..Betrayed by a familiar friend…..Jn. 13:18
Psa. 45:2…Words of Grace come from His lips…Lu. 4:22
Psa. 45:6…To own the title, God or Elohim…Heb. 1:8
Psa. 45:7…A special anointing by the Holy Spirit…Mt.3:16; Heb.1:9
Psa. 45:7,8…Called the Christ (Messiah or Anointed)…Lu. 2:11
Psa. 55:12-14…Betrayed by a friend, not an enemy…Jn. 13:18
Psa. 55:15…Unrepentant death of the Betrayer…Mt. 27:3-5; Acts 1:16-19
Psa. 68:18…To give gifts to men…Eph. 4:7-16
Psa. 68:18…Ascended into Heaven…Lu. 24:51
Psa. 69:4…Hated without a cause…Jn. 15:25
Psa. 69:8…A stranger to own brethren…Lu. 8;20,21
Psa. 69:9…Zealous for the Lord’s House…Jn. 2:17
Psa. 69:14-20…Messiah’s anguish of soul before crucifixion…Mt. 26:36-45
Psa. 69:20…”My soul is exceeding sorrowful.”…Mt. 26:38
Psa. 69:21…Given vinegar in thirst…Mt. 27:34
Psa. 69:26…The Saviour given and smitten by God…Jn. 17:4; 18:11
Psa. 72:10,11…Great persons were to visit Him…Mt. 2:1-11
Psa. 72:16…The corn of wheat to fall into the Ground…Jn. 12:24
Psa. 72:17…His name, Yinon, will produce offspring…Jn. 1:12,13
Psa. 72:17…All nations shall be blessed by Him…Acts 2:11,12,41
Psa. 78:1.2…He would teach in parables…Mt. 13:34-35
Psa. 78:2b…To speak the Wisdom of God with authority…Mt. 7:29
Psa. 88:8…They stood afar off and watched…Lu. 23:49
Psa. 89:27…Emmanuel to be higher than earthly kings…Lu. 1:32,33
Psa. 89:35-37…David’s Seed, throne, kingdom endure forever…Lu. 1:32,33
Psa. 89:36-37…His character-Faithfulness…Rev. 1:5
Psa. 90:2…He is from everlasting (Micah 5:2)…Jn. 1:1
Psa. 91:11,12…Identified as Messianic; used to tempt Christ…Lu. 4;10,11
Psa. 97:9…His exaltation predicted…Acts 1:11;Eph. 1:20
Psa. 100:5…His character-Goodness…Mt. 19:16,17
Psa. 102:1-11…The Suffering and Reproach of Calvary…Jn. 21:16-30
Psa. 102:25-27…Messiah is the Preexistent Son…Heb. 1:10-12
Psa. 109:25…Ridiculed…Mt. 27:39
Psa. 110:1…Son of David…Mt. 22:43
Psa. 110:1…To ascend to the right-hand of the Father…Mk.16:19
Psa. 110:1…David’s son called Lord…Mt. 22:44,45
Psa. 110:4…A priest after Melchizedek’s order…Heb. 6:20
Psa. 112:4…His character-Compassionate, Gracious, et al… Mt. 9;36
Psa. 118:17,18…Messiah’s Resurrection assured…Lu. 24:5-7;1 Cor. 15:20
Psa. 118:22,23…The rejected stone is Head of the corner…Mt. 21:42,43
Psa. 118:26a…The Blessed One presented to Israel…Mt. 21:9
Psa. 118:26b…To come while Temple standing…Mt. 21;12-15
Psa. 132:11…The Seed of David (the fruit of His Body)…Lu. 1:32
Psa. 138:1-6…The supremacy of David’s Seed amazes kings… Mt. 2:2-6
Psa. 147:3,6…The earthly ministry of Christ described…Lu. 4:18
Psa. 1:23…He will send the Spirit of God… Jn. 16;7
Song. 5;16…The altogether lovely One…Jn. 1:17
Isa. 6:1…When Isaiah saw His glory… Jn. 12:40-41
Isa. 6:9-10…Parables fall on deaf ears…Mt. 13:13-15
Isa. 6:9-12…Blinded to Christ and deaf to His words…Acts. 28:23-29
Isa. 7:14…To be born of a virgin…Lu. 1:35
Isa. 7:14…To be Emmanuel-God with us… Mt. 1:18-23
Isa. 8:8…Called Emmanuel…Mt. 28:20
Isa. 8:14…A stone of stumbling, a Rock of offense… 1 Pet. 2:8
Isa. 9:1,2…His ministry to begin in Galilee…Mt. 4:12-17
Isa. 9:6…A child born-Humanity…Lu. 1:31
Isa. 9:6…A Son given-Deity…Lu. 1:32; Jn. 1;14; 1 Tim. 3:16
Isa. 9:6…Declared to be the Son of God with power… Rom. 1:3,4
Isa. 9:6…The Wonderful One, Peleh…Lu. 4:22
Isa. 9:6…The Counsellor, Yaatz…Mt. 13:54
Isa. 9:6…The Mighty God, El Gibor…Mt. 11:20
Isa. 9:6…The Everlasting Father, Avi Adth…Jn. 8:58
Isa. 9:6…The Prince of Peace, Sar Shalom…Jn . 16:33
Isa. 9:7…To establish an everlasting kingdom…Lu. 1:32-33
Isa. 9:7…His Character-Just…Jn. 5:30
Isa. 9:7…No end to his Government, Throne, and Peace…Lu. 1:32-33
Isa. 11:1…Called a Nazarene-the Branch, Netzer…Mt. 2:23
Isa. 11:1…A rod out of Jesse-Son of Jesse…Lu. 3:23,32
Isa. 11:2…The anointed One by the Spirit…Mt. 3;16,17
Isa. 11:2…His Character-Wisdom, Understanding, et al….Jn. 4:4-26
Isa. 11:4…His Character-Truth…Jn. 14:6
Isa. 11:10…The Gentiles seek Him…Jn. 12:18-21
Isa. 12:2…Called Jesus-Yeshua(salvation)…Mt. 1:21
Isa. 25:8…The Resurrection predicted…I Cor. 15:54
Isa. 26:19…His power of Resurrection predicted…Jn. 11:43,44
Isa. 28:16…The Messiah is the precious corner stone…Acts 4:11,12
Isa. 29:13…He indicated hypocritical obedience to His Word…Mt. 15:7-9
Isa. 29:14…The wise are confounded by the Word…I Cor. 1:18-31
Isa. 32:2…A Refuge-A man shall be a hiding place…Mt. 23:37
Isa. 35:4…He will come and save you…Mt. 1:21
Isa. 35:5…To have a ministry of miracles…Mt. 11:4-6
Isa. 40:3,4…Preceded by forerunner…Jn. 1:23
Isa. 40:9…”Behold your God.”…Jn. 1:36;19:14
Isa. 40:11…A shepherd-compassionate life-giver…Jn. 10:10-18
Isa. 42:1-4…The Servant-as a faithful, patient redeemer… Mt.12:18-21
Isa. 42:2…Meek and lowly… Mt. 11:28-30
Isa. 42:3…He brings hope for the hopeless… Jn. 4
Isa. 42:4…The nations shall wait on His teachings… Jn. 12:20-26
Isa. 42:6…The Light (salvation) of the Gentiles…Lu. 2:32
Isa. 42:1,6…His is a Worldwide compassion… Mt. 28:19,20
Isa. 42:7…Blind eyes opened… Jn. 9:25-38
Isa. 43:11…He is the only Saviour… Acts. 4:12
Isa. 44:3…He will send the Spirit of God… Jn. 16:7,13
Isa. 45:23…He will be the Judge… Jn. 5:22;Rom. 14:11
Isa. 48:12…The First and the Last…Jn. 1:30;Rev. 1:8,17
Isa. 48:17…He came as a Teacher…Jn. 3:2
Isa. 49:1…Called from the womb-His humanity…Mt. 1:18
Isa. 49:5…A Servant from the womb…Lu. 1:31;Phil. 2:7
Isa. 49:6…He is Salvation for Israel…Lu. 2:29-32
Isa. 49:6…He is the Light of the Gentiles…Acts 13:47
Isa. 49:6…He is Salvation unto the ends of the earth… Acts 15:7-18
Isa. 49:7…He is despised of the Nation… Jn. 8:48-49
Isa. 50:3…Heaven is clothed in black at His humiliation… Lu. 23:44,45
Isa. 50:4…He is a learned counsellor for the weary… Mt. 11:28,29
Isa. 50:5…The Servant bound willingly to obedience… Mt. 26:39
Isa. 50:6a…”I gave my back to the smiters.”… Mt. 27:26
Isa. 50:6b…He was smitten on the cheeks… Mt. 26:67
Isa. 50:6c…He was spat upon… Mt. 27:30
Isa. 52:7…To publish good tidings of peace… Lu. 4:14,15
Isa. 52:13…The Servant exalted…Acts 1:8-11; Eph. 1:19-22
Isa. 52:13…Behold, My Servant… Mt. 17:5; Phil. 2:5-8
Isa. 52:14…The Servant shockingly abused… Lu. 18:31-34; Mt. 26:67,68
Isa. 52:15…Nations startled by message of the Servant… Rom. 15:18-21
Isa. 52:15…His blood shed to make atonement for all… Rev. 1:5
Isa. 53:1…His people would not believe Him….. Jn. 12:37-38
Isa. 53:2a…He would grow up in a poor family…. Lu. 2:7
Isa. 53:2b…Appearance of an ordinary man… Phil. 2:7-8
Isa. 53:3a…Despised…. Lu. 4:28-29
Isa. 53:3b…Rejected… Mt. 27:21-23
Isa. 53:3c…Great sorrow and grief… Lu. 19:41-42
Isa. 53:3d…Men hide from being associated with Him… Mk. 14:50-52
Isa. 53:4a…He would have a healing ministry… Lu. 6:17-19
Isa. 53:4b…He would bear the sins of the world… 1 Pet. 2:24
Isa. 53:4c…Thought to be cursed by God… Mt. 27:41-43
Isa. 53:5a…Bears penalty for mankind’s transgressions… Lu. 23:33
Isa. 53:5b…His sacrifice would provide peace between man and God… Col. 1:20
Isa. 53:5c…His back would be whipped… Mt. 27:26
Isa. 53:6a…He would be the sin-bearer for all mankind…Gal. 1:4
Isa. 53:6b…God’s will that He bear sin for all mankind… 1 Jn. 4:10
Isa. 53:7a…Oppressed and afflicted… Mt. 27:27-31
Isa. 53:7b…Silent before his accusers… Mt. 27:12-14
Isa. 53:7c…Sacrificial lamb… Jn. 1:29
Isa. 53:8a…Confined and persecuted… Mt. 26:47-27:31
Isa. 53:8b…He would be judged… Jn. 18:13-22
Isa. 53:8c…Killed…. Mt. 27:35
Isa. 53:8d…Dies for the sins of the world… 1 Jn. 2:2
Isa. 53:9a…Buried in a rich man’s grave… Mt. 27:57
Isa. 53:9b…Innocent and had done no violence… Mk. 15:3
Isa. 53:9c…No deceit in his mouth… Jn. 18:38
Isa. 53:10a…God’s will that He die for mankind… Jn. 18:11
Isa. 53:10b…An offering for sin… Mt. 20:28
Isa. 53:10c…Resurrected and live forever…. Mk. 16:16
Isa. 53:10d…He would prosper… Jn. 17:1-5
Isa. 53:11a…God fully satisfied with His suffering… Jn. 12:27
Isa. 53:11b…God’s servant… Rom. 5:18-19
Isa. 53:11c…He would justify man before God… Rom. 5:8-9
Isa. 53:11d…The sin-bearer for all mankind… Heb. 9:28
Isa. 53:12a…Exalted by God because of his sacrifice… Mt. 28:18
Isa. 53:12b…He would give up his life to save mankind… Lu. 23:46
Isa. 53:12c…Grouped with criminals… Lu. 23:32
Isa. 53:12d…Sin-bearer for all mankind… 2 Cor. 5:21
Isa. 53:12e…Intercede to God in behalf of mankind… Lu. 23:34
Isa. 55:3…Resurrected by God… Acts 13:34
Isa. 55:4…A witness… Jn. 18:37
Isa. 59:15-16a…He would come to provide salvation… Jn. 6:40
Isa. 59:15-16b…Intercessor between man and God… Mt. 10:32
Isa. 59:20…He would come to Zion as their Redeemer… Lu. 2:38
Isa. 61:1-2a…The Spirit of God upon him… Mt. 3:16-17
Isa. 61:1-2b…The Messiah would preach the good news… Lu. 4:17-21
Isa. 61:1-2c…Provide freedom from the bondage of sin and death… Jn. 8:31-32
Isa. 61:1-2…Proclaim a period of grace… Jn. 5:24
Jer.23:5-6a…Descendant of David…Lu. 3:23-31
Jer. 23:5-6b…The Messiah would be God… Jn. 13:13
Jer. 23:5-6c…The Messiah would be both God and Man… 1 Tim. 3:16
Jer. 31:22…Born of a virgin… Mt. 1:18-20
Jer. 31:31…The Messiah would be the new covenant… Mt. 26:28
Jer. 33:14-15…Descendant of David… Lu. 3:23-31
Eze.17:22-24…Descendant of David… Lk. 3:23-31
Eze.34:23-24…Descendant of David… Mt. 1:1
Dan. 7:13-14a…He would ascend into heaven… Acts 1:9-11
Dan. 7:13-14b…Highly exalted… Eph. 1:20-22
Dan. 7:13-14c…His dominion would be everlasting… Lu. 1:31-33
Dan. 9:24a…To make an end to sins… Gal. 1:3-5
Dan. 9:24b…He would be holy… Lu. 1:35
Dan. 9:25…Announced to his people 483 years, to the exact day, after the decree to rebuild the city of Jerusalem… Jn. 12:12-13
Dan. 9:26a…Killed… Mt. 27:35
Dan. 9:26b…Die for the sins of the world… Heb. 2:9
Dan. 9:26c…Killed before the destruction of the temple… Mt. 27:50-51
Dan. 10:5-6…Messiah in a glorified state… Rev. 1:13-16
Hos. 13:14…He would defeat death… 1 Cor. 15:55-57
Joel 2:32…Offer salvation to all mankind… Rom. 10:12-13
Mic. 5:2a…Born in Bethlehem… Mt. 2:1-2
Mic. 5:2b…God’s servant… Jn. 15:10
Mic. 5:2c…From everlasting… Jn. 8:58
Hag. 2:6-9…He would visit the second Temple… Lu. 2:27-32
Hag. 2:23…Descendant of Zerubbabel… Lu. 3:23-27
Zech. 3:8…God’s servant… Jn. 17:4
Zech. 6:12-13…Priest and King… Heb. 8:1
Zech. 9:9a…Greeted with rejoicing in Jerusalem… Mt. 21:8-10
Zech. 9:9b…Beheld as King… Jn. 12:12-13
Zech. 9:9c…The Messiah would be just… Jn. 5:30
Zech. 9:9d…The Messiah would bring salvation… Luke 19:10
Zech. 9:9e…The Messiah would be humble… Mt. 11:29
Zech. 9:9f…Presented to Jerusalem riding on a donkey… Mt. 21:6-9
Zech. 10:4…The cornerstone… Eph. 2:20
Zech. 11:4-6a…At His coming, Israel to have unfit leaders… Mt. 23:1-4
Zech. 11:4-6b…Rejection causes God to remove His protection.. Lu. 19:41-44
Zech. 11:4-6c…Rejected in favor of another king… Jn. 19:13-15
Zech. 11:7…Ministry to “poor,” the believing remnant… Mt. 9:35-36
Zech. 11:8a…Unbelief forces Messiah to reject them… Mt. 23:33
Zech. 11:8b…Despised… Mt. 27:20
Zech. 11:9…Stops ministering to the those who rejected Him… Mt. 13:10-11
Zech. 11:10-11a…Rejection causes God to remove protection… Lu. 19:41-44
Zech. 11:10-11b…The Messiah would be God… Jn. 14:7
Zech. 11:12-13a…Betrayed for thirty pieces of silver… Mt. 26:14-15
Zech. 11:12-13b…Rejected… Mt. 26:14-15
Zech. 11:12-13c…Thirty pieces of silver thrown into the house of the Lord… Mt. 27:3-5
Zech. 11:12-13d…The Messiah would be God… Jn. 12:45
Zech. 12:10a…The Messiah’s body would be pierced… Jn. 19:34-37
Zech. 12:10b…The Messiah would be both God and man… Jn. 10:30
Zech. 12:10c…The Messiah would be rejected… Jn. 1:11
Zech. 13:7a…God’s will He die for mankind… Jn. 18:11
Zech. 13:7b…A violent death… Mt. 27:35
Zech. 13:7c…Both God and man.. Jn. 14:9
Zech. 13:7d…Israel scattered as a result of rejecting Him… Mt. 26:31-56
Mal. 3:1a…Messenger to prepare the way for Messiah… Mt. 11:10
Mal. 3:1b…Sudden appearance at the temple… Mk. 11:15-16
Mal. 3:1c…Messenger of the new covenant… Lu. 4:43
Mal. 4:5…Forerunner in the spirit of Elijah… Mt. 3:1-2
Mal. 4:6…Forerunner would turn many to righteousness… Lu. 1:16-17
from: Hope of Israel.net
I don’t understand what these 4000 words you posted are supposed to be saying?
Doctrinal Statement
A BRIEF OVERVIEW OF THE DOCTRINES OF THE FAITH
1. Holy Scriptures
We believe that the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are verbally inspired of God, and preserved in the King James Bible for the English speaking people. The Bible is the supreme and final authority for faith and practice.
(From Hope of Israel.net-where the English KJV is the inspired version)
Never mind, I understand now.
Mediate on the what the Scriptures say.
They testify of HIM, and answer all our wonderings if a thing is this way or that way.
Romans 15:33
The problem is not meditating on Scripture. The problem is that our unexamined paradigms dictate what we think the MEANING of the text is. All Scripture might be inspired but reader are not inspired. Readers come to the text with preconceived theological categories that are then applied to the text to extract the meaning. If you don’t know HOW you read the text, then you will never be able to decide if your assumptions govern what you think the text says. Culture, language, history all share how to read Scripture. The words are not neutral. Listing verses (proof texting) is useless unless you understand HOW you read the text.
And, by the way, simply claiming that the Spirit will enlighten you is another form of presupposition.
Romans 8: 14
Rightly so, if I may add, Skip.
Thus Christianity stumbles through, with their pre-conceived theological mindsets, not willing to be renewed by refreshing revelations that ABBA has stored up for such a time as these, in restoring ALL things, through the Hebrew language.
Shalom!
I have meditated on the Scriptures as written in Hebrew, Aramaic (Aramaic Peshitta translation), and Greek. Admittedly, trying to meditate via these languages is quite difficult and strenuous. I find myself working volumes before I can even be prepared to meditate on their meanings. Many, many, many, many times they say different things than what is in the KJV. Which one do I meditate on, Dorothy? The Greek, the Hebrew or the KJV? Which one is authoritative and which one has the final say? IF you are saying the KJV (translation) is our final written authority, no wonder you have aversion to my comments. Makes sense.
It is amazing this argument keeps propagating decade after decade.
I’m puzzled why Yeshua, speaking to the men on the road to Emmaus, didn’t just hand them a pre-incarnate KJV copy. He wouldn’t have had to waste time EXPLAINING Scripture to them. “Here, just read and meditate on this. All things will be clear then. Here is the procedure: When you have a question, close your eyes, flip through the pages and stop when the Spirit prompts you. Then, with eyes closed, plop your finger down on a page. The verse under it is your answer. Read it and do thus. If any of your friends have issues, just quote one of these verses to them. Or many, many of these verses to them. I will magically give them understanding of what they mean.”
There is a myriad of verses that are extremely difficult to understand. Just reading it via an English translation of another man, men, woman, women, does NOT mean we see, understand or comprehend its true, entire and complete meaning.
Again, I can read the Bible. I do that. Throwing a verse out isn’t necessarily an answer unless the sender and receiver of that verse have an understanding of what the verse means to it’s original audience.
Throwing out a “King James What Dost Thouest Meanest Byest Thatest Version” is only a beginning. Then the struggle of meditating, as best we can learn how, as impartially of any preconceived meanings as we can, as within the understanding of the culture, societal, language and over all world of the original audience as best we can, is opened up to great thought, discovery and digging to uncover the original intent of the inspired thoughts captured in the words of the people that wrote them.
Hesitations 6:24
Strivinations 3:51
Ascertations 24:7
. . . and so on.
Dr. K. Daniel Fried says:
“Not surprising, the KJB is always correct”
Really?
Michael C-
Good understanding and insights there! HalleluYAH!
Dorothy, I thoroughly was ministered to by those verses. I am not a scholar but I do appreciate alll the work that somebody did to bring the truth home of WHO HE IS and WHAT He had DONE and continues to do until HE COME.
But I don’t. What was the point of providing all these verses? I missed something?
Osmosis, I think.
Dear Michael C, (and whosoever will..)
the long-promised Messiah has come.
~ and God has given unto Him a Name that is above every Name.. ~
“God made Him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that *in Him* (in our blood-covenant union with The Messiah) we might become the righteousness of God”
Carl, How do we get into a blood covenant union with the Messiah? Is it by the sinner’s prayer or some other way? Please explain because I’ve forgotten a lot of scripture I once knew. And trying to reorient my thinking from Greek to Hebrew has left me greatly confused. Darlene
Dorothy, I must first apologize as I am (by self-confession) a simple man. I love (this is me y’all) to keep things simple.
A virgin did conceive and bear a Son. This was foretold in Isaiah and fulfilled in the gospels. The very word “gospel” is “good news.” For unto us a Child is born and unto us a Son has been given. His Name is “Salvation.” The words of the angel were to name Him “…” for He shall save His people from their sins. The mission of the Messiah was (by His own words) “to seek and to save that which was lost.” Bottom line: there are (in the end) only two types of people in this world (saved or not). We (all) must be “born from above,” up to and including “all.” All have sinned means all have sinned. We (all-both Jew and Gentile, both male and female- have a problem, something that separates us from our God who is thrice-holy. We need a Mediator between God and man and that Man is the man Christ Jesus. We have been given an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the Righteous.
It is rather amazing when we stop and think of all the roles (and Names) our LORD Jesus takes upon Himself! Prophet? yes. Priest? yes. King? yes. (but wait.. there’s more!) Rock, Redeemer, Righteous One- yes. Savior, Sacrifice, Sovereign.. yes.
When Paul writes, “this is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance” – it is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance!- Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief! (Remember?- “for the son of man is come into the world to seek and to save sinners”- these are the Messiah’s own words- (pick any translation you can understand!)
The gospel of Christ is so easy a child can understand it, yet there are those among us who would (for whatever reason or purpose or motivation) would try to cover up or obfuscate what is so clear and so plain in all of the scriptures. All of the scriptures (all of them) testify as to One Man- the man Christ Jesus- the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. The scriptures testify again “and the blood of Jesus Christ God’s Son (and God the Son) cleanses from all sin. Atonement is “both” a cleansing and a covering.
“Ask and you will receive.” Ask with the heart of a child. Put away all learning and all cultural bias- whether a Jew or a Gentile. Come to God as a little child would come, kneel before Him in your own secret place and ask Him to reveal Himself to you- just as He did for the talmudim who were on the road to Emmaus.
There is more wonderful news to share.. God is not out to hide Himself from anyone, but He is not very fond of the Pharisee! The wandering son (in the story of the Prodigal Father) confessed his wrongdoing and the result of this was “the Father”- (our Father) ran to meet him. This very act of “coming to our senses” and returning unto the Source of every good and perfect gift is known as “repentance.” It is a change of heart or mind resulting in a change of behavior. Have I repented concerning my sin? Many,many multiple times. I once leaped into sin and loved it, but now occasionally lapse into sin and loathe it. My outlook concerning sin is totally changed. I hate sin- in any form or fashion. Sin is stupid. Sin is a form of insanity.
Only Christ can make any of us whole and new again. God is not the God of the second chance, He is the God of new beginnings.. Find out what it means to be *in Christ*- (ask God to reveal this to you and He will) and then start to live it out, accordingly.
Darlene, I say this in all sincerity and constantly say it to myself as well… (Carl) “you do err not knowing the scriptures, nor the power (authority) of God”..
Yeshua said unto the Tempter and Accuser of the brethren three times.. “it is written..” Why?
Amen Carl.. still being ministered to as you bring forth the WORD and the hymms.
Skip is doing a great job at bringing us out of ourselves and unto the LORD.
I am enjoying the many comments that come through each day as Skip brings the WORD to light.
Bravo to you ALL..
I wonder.. does “whosoever will,” by extension, also exclude “whosoever will not?”
Does “as many as received Him,” by extension, also exclude “as many as rejected Him?”
A Gift, (any gift) though graciously offered- may still be rejected and refused..
Carl,
Frankly, I just don’t get a majority of what you post on here.
It really makes me want to ask, “What color is the sky in the world you live.”
But, I won’t ask that.
I’m trying to understand your ~comments~ but, I confess, I just don’t.
Ok. So, you don’t believe in deliverance? Is this one of the points you are making here?
I use the KJ, and i’m very aware of the environment it was created under and the bias(es) of the translators, and i find it easier to work with BECAUSE of my awareness.
These verse, in the KJ, references “principalities and powers”; I look for the first time this phrase was utilized and i find that is Eph 3:10, and this Scripture puts “powers and principalities” in heavenly places. Spirits.
That information is in my mind when i read Colossians. And, being as how the verse is past tense, even being mindful of the hebraic view on time, it further solidifies for me that when/where Y’shua performed these acts.
As far as publicly, it would be in front of those ‘sleeping’ (spirits of those who have long died).
I’m not really in for a debate and i guess i could say this a lot better and take up a lot more space, but i’m trying to be brief.
But my first question pretty much sets the stage for your response. If you do not believe in spirit world realities, and do not ascribe to deliverance or a need for deliverance, it would certainly pin point your bias.
Or, at least, one of them. 😉
For me ‘openly’ and ‘public’ has to do with the venue in which he triumphed
RE bp: And I would add Ephesians 6:12 to the ‘venue’ argument: “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places”. (or heavenlies as in many other translations) Note the contrast between flesh and blood with all those entities that follow. It is on these types of verses (which clearly contrast the two kingdoms) that I stake my belief that Yeshua disarmed the rulers and authorities IN THE HEAVENLIES-where it ultimately counts. One can’t talk about all the types and shadowly stuff taking place in heaven-e.g. an eternal alter where sins were forgiven and not at least allow for the possibility of a triumphant parading of Messiah in the heavenlies over the demonic forces which enforced the power of death over him for a short 3 day season. After all, this world is the temporal stage for all that transpires in the heavenly realm, not the other way around. While I can see that the earthly rulers would have also lost their “power” over the future disciples of Messiah who were promised eternal life, but it is because the rulers of this world are subject to and get their power from the rulers of that spirit world. But remember Yeshua had already told His disciples “And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell”. (Matthew 10:28) Now the resurrected, triumphant Yeshua gives us the trump card to play against the enemy (both human and demonic) when faced with the worst that either could deliver- i.e. death (from the earthly rulers) and the destruction of both soul and body in hell ( from Satan). Yeshua had to strip Satan and his army of their authority (stolen in the Garden) and make it known to all that He has conquered death and is now King. He thus proclaimed it throughout the Kingdom of Heaven by parading the defeated foes triumphantly before His Father and all the angels and hosts and perhaps, as you add, bp, to all those ‘sleeping’…and thus it came to be proclaimed by man “so as it in heaven, let it be on earth”. So I see it both ways. I’m glad Skip pointed out the less obvious, but, for me, it doesn’t lessen the obvious. I may be importing 36 years of Calvinist and charismatic theology (I know, what a mix!) into my understanding of the text, but I don’t see it even after examining it afresh. Sometimes I think Skip pushes the hidden, the unobvious or the minority opinion over the popularly accepted or traditional theological opinion simply because the latter is so often wrong; but therein, to me, is the danger-it is not always wrong. But that is what I love about this site- Skip isn’t about having a monopoly on truth, but he is always challenging us to examine what we’ve been taught or inherited from the Church Fathers by looking at it in a different light (Hebraic) and giving us the proper tools to make an informed decision. From what I have ascertained Skip doesn’t have ‘charismatic’ background and therefore doesn’t ‘understand’ demonology and deliverance in the same way you or I might ( and who knows if we agree or if we are even correct?) but, to me, that is OK. If I want the ‘charismatic’ point of view there are numerous sites I can (cautiously and carefully) visit and find a consensus with my understanding of these issues. In the meantime I’ll let Skip teach what he knows and believes; knowing that I’ve found myself more often than not coming around to his ‘light’…but on this issue???…let’s just say that I have been long anxious to hear more of Skip’s views on demons, deliverance, Satan, etc. Skip, will you ‘humor’ us? Shalom, Michael
The Victory which Christ achieved for us (yes, “At Calvary”) is complete in every single arena of life. Physically, emotionally, financially, socially- “spiritually”- in one word “completely.” He has triumphed over all of our (all humans on the planet) greatest problems. Sin, death and the grave were all thoroughly and ignominiously defeated by the Son of God and God the Son. The atoning Sacrifice of our Savior (one offering forever) was (and is) forever “enough.”
The cross of (the) Christ is crucial, central and cardinal to our health and well-being; (listen now) both “here” on this green planet, and in the Hereafter (otherwise known as Heaven). There is a life beyond this one, (after I cease to draw breath), but He has said -and I just know we all do pay attention to His words,- right?, (please notice the quote marks Michael C!) I know you may tire of my “tildes” so I will revert to the overuse of the ” “. And I quote: ” I have come that you might have life and have it “more abundantly.” These words (which are His words) are found in John 10.10.
Is ‘Eternal Life’ a quality or a quantity? (or both?)
Just for the record, Carl: Are you in the KJB ONLY camp?
no Michael C, for the record- I am not. But I am of the camp that says, “the word of God says..”
I do not understand it all, but I’ll guarantee, there’s enuf in there to keep me busy for some time to come! and (just sayin’)- the best way to understand the scripture is to obey the parts you do understand. Savvy? If He says to love- love. If He says to give- give. If He says to stand- stand. Yes, Michael C, “whatever He says unto you- do it!”
Agreed on that, certainly. My challenge is unlearning some el-junko that I have been
inundated with for so many years that I’ve gotten to the place that I questioned so many things
that I simply threw it all out and started all over again one piece at
a time. When I started doing that and began rebuilding from one basic truth
to the next without the presuppositions that I was taught influencing what Scriptures said
I was amazed at what I didn’t find in Scripture. It was a shock to
say the least.
I had at one point attended a fundamental baptist church
where I could feel actual spit and sweat from
the preacher three rows back! No discussion on
anything, just hard dogma, period.
Michael C, I am sorry you were a victim of the “bully pulpit..” “Spit and sweat from the preacher” does not at all resemble or remind anyone of the spirit of Christ. May God heal you thoroughly from all you have endured.
~ And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten… (Joel 2:25)
hey, Michael C., I’m sorry, too, for your awful experience. Wish you could have found the get up and go to leave much sooner! But you did leave, good.
Believe me, I’m NOT making excuses when I say this; churches are made up of imperfect people/sinners and make mistakes – and sometimes do horrible things. I remember being shocked when I realized some of the preachers out there aren’t even saved!!
The organized physical manifestation of the church is run by broken people who are in the process of healing and being sanctified, as are all Christians. And that is the ones who are trying, –sounds like you were in one that was horrible.
But nothing can change the fact that God truly loves you, even when His people, (or those masquerading as His people), don’t illustrate it.
Focusing on a certain group of people as the cause for your pain only lead to bitterness. Forgiving the particular people involved in your damaging situation is crucial in the healing cycle. You have been hurt by unbiblical general teaching and now relate that to the broader church.
Just like families, there are good nurturing ones, and there are messed up families run dictator-style by a dad, sometimes even mom, where children have hardly heard a kind word in all their sad, growing up years. Its hard for those to whom this has happened to see God as their Heavenly Father, or feel like He loves them. — But not impossible, I’ve seen the victory gained, too.
Your healing may be more about accepting truth than about forgiving any one person or group. I’m joyful you are on your way to seeing for yourself what God has to say to you in your Bible.
And the opposite of the wrong things that beast was spitting out just jump out at you, don’t they? I befriended a woman coming from a cult and she just kept finding where the real Bible didn’t say things she had been led to believe were true! What relief!
So many lies. Telling lies is what satan does best.
You may feel perfectly justified in bearing a grudge. There really is something exquisitely sweet about it. (I was spit on, I’ll spit on them — from a distance.)
Withholding forgiveness and feeling righteous about it is heady. God is the God of justice. Wrongs should be righted. And we deserve to feel contempt for those who hurt us.
Except that it’s all a lie.
God gives us very good reasons in Scripture for why we should forgive, I don’t need to tell you, I’m sure you’ve found them for yourself.
I just want to say to you the same as I say to myself, to my kids, grandkids, great-grandchild–(one so far), and the women I counsel (at my loving church):
FORGIVE EVERYBODY EVERYTHING.
Keep on following the One who loves you with an unquenchable, Jesus/Yeshua.
(Rom. 8:38-39; Song 8: 7)
I’ll see you on the path from time to time. We all travel at different speeds, yes?
Watch out for that tree! That boulder! The hardened ruts! The lies satan tells!
–Love, in Christ Jesus
thank you for reading
Thanks, Dorothy. Some good exhortations and encouragement. You are right, many lessons in this for me, for sure. I’ve done good in some and not so good in others, but, overall I think I’m seeing a net forward movement. I’m making progress in the challenging task of actually DOING forgiveness. As I’ve allowed myself to see more and more of the stupid, dumb and ignorant things in my own life, it somehow takes the edge off the sharp knife I sometimes want to weld toward others. Just learning to address issues more directly rather than let the rather often times stupid ruling class continue. It’s challenging learning the right and most effective way to do that.
Here are the fundamental issues with exegesis of these texts:
1. The text must first be meaningful to the audience it was written to, in this case Jews and Gentiles in the fist century. If the meaning we derive from the text would have been unintelligible to the first audience, then WE ARE WRONG, not the author or the first audience.
2. Many, many Jews believed that Yeshua was the Messiah, but there is NO evidence whatsoever that these Jews would have or could have believed that the CROSS was a place of atonement. Even Christian Greek scholars like Leon Morris confirm that the “cross” meant torturous execution, not forgiveness.
3. Atonement as a Hebraic concept (and therefore what would have been meaningful to Jews in the first century) was about defilement and defilement was removed by actions provided for in Scripture, none of which required execution of a human being.
4. John, Peter and the author of Hebrews (3 witnesses) say that the atoning sacrifice occurred before the foundation of the world
5. Jews in the first century would have clearly understood God’s atoning provision of sin sacrifice within the heavenly Temple on the heavenly altar.
6. Passover, the occasion of the crucifixion, was not a celebration of forgiveness of sin. That would have been Yom Kippur.
7. The idea that the cross is the place of forgiveness violates every aspect of the Levitical sacrificial requirements.
8. Therefore, if Jews believed that Yeshua is the Messiah, they did not believe this to be the case based on the current Christian doctrine about forgiveness on the cross.
9. Nevertheless, Paul clearly states that the cross is of great significance
10. THerefore, the cross must be about something that makes theological sense to Jews and Gentiles
11. I am suggesting that the primary question of the Gentile world is not SIN, but DEATH, and the cross is God’s answer to the problem of DEATH
12. If I am correct, the divide created by the Christian view of the cross disappears entirely and both Jew and Gentile are “saved” on exactly the same basis, the atoning sacrifice of Yeshua in the heaven lies before the foundation of the world
DISCLAIMER – but, of course, we are debating this in order to understand. None of it questions or discounts YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with God.
Do you know about when this book will be available, Skip?
Michael C. , please take a brief look at these 300 lines.
Be careful to note the top of the page which explains what all the abbreviations stand for.
Check these against your own preferred version of the Bible.
http://www.hopeofisrael.net/2011/articles/must_read/300_changes.html
This is but ONE sampling of “eye-openers” I could point you to if it mattered at all to you.
I am offering this in sincerity, and not to be contentious.
Forget all about “Dorothy” — wipe your mind free of her — and let facts speak.
My prayer: Ps. 19: 14 “Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.”
I don’t want to post anymore today, so I will use this space to say to sister Carol, I’m glad you found this a delightful treasure, as I did. Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen. Eph. 6: 24
3900 words. 300 lines.
Brief?
🙂
WHEW! HOT HOT HOT!!!
“Despite the popular claim that “Jesus” died on the cross for the forgiveness of sin, we find that the biblical text says something else.”
5:44 But I tell you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
Hi Skip,
I don’t mean to be rude or offensive, but regarding Jesus dying for our sins, I could never see how that concept could ever be anything more than “wishful thinking”
If I commit a sin, then I am responsible for a sin, and I’m going to suffer the consequences; that’s Hebrew, Karma, or Physics
I have had friends who believe that you can love your enemy as you kill them, but I definitely don’t believe Jesus had that in mind
oops
5:44 But I tell you, love your enemies should have been
Matt 5:44
“Despite the popular claim that “Jesus” died on the cross for the forgiveness of sin, we find that the biblical text says something else.”
Well.. I suppose this might be one example of why we love to use the “…” so much. Yes, “it is written.. black lettering/white background- the Bible says:
1 Corinthians 15:3-8
“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures:and that He was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: after that, He appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep.”
~ But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept ~ (1 Corinthians 15.20) Firstfruits. Isn’t this wonderful news?
And again (from the scriptures) ~ To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them who are sanctified by faith that is in Me ~ (Acts 26.18)
“But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins “– then He said to the paralytic, “Get up, pick up your bed and go home.” (Matthew 9.6)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aowdjLeaCYs
I guess I don’t really see why anyone would have a problem with this post.. There is so much more hope in KNOWING that salvation and life were available even before the cross.. After reading another post by Skip about the purpose of the cross and what salvation really means, it shed some light on some lies I have been taught most of my life about what could have happened to all those people who lived before Jesus was alive on the earth. I was always taught that before Jesus came, everyone went to hell and when He died, He descended down to hell and set them free and then they were then saved! Now how preposterous does that sound?! I just don’t see how anyone would want to argue against this when it makes so much more sense!
Karen- You are right, I agree. Shalom!
In the verses before-Meshiach has forgiven us while we were dead in our trespasses ,and all our transgressions were blotted out nailed to the stake, publicly declaring to all present, physical and spiritual, the victory of Him prevailing over the flesh, over death and self.
Just as many overcomer-believers Hebrews wrote about, they too have triumphed over death, and proclaimed victory in their Meshiach by their very lives!
Principalities and authorities did not prevail over Him, they are rendered powerless to do anything to Him, as He could have summoned legions of angels to help Him, but He submitted to do His ABBA’s will.