Future Salvation
She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins. Matthew 1:21 ESV
Will save – Is salvation proleptic? Ah, what a great word! You might have to look it up, but just in case you don’t have time, “prolepsis” means “the representation of a thing as existing before it actually does or did so.” For example, the phrase “dead man walking” used to describe an inmate on death row is proleptic. The inmate isn’t actually dead, but he is considered such because of his anticipated outcome.
So, I will ask again. Is salvation proleptic? Are we saved at the moment we accept entrance into a restored fellowship with YHWH, or are we only considered saved because the actual condition is yet to be realized? Be careful how you answer. If you say, “Yes, of course we are saved as soon as we enter into a restored relationship with YHWH,” then doesn’t that imply that Abraham, Samuel, David and all the men and women who lived before the birth of Yeshua were saved when they were restored to fellowship by YHWH? And if this is true, then what makes us think that salvation wasn’t available until the cross? But if you say, “No, those men and women of the Old Testament weren’t saved yet because Yeshua had not died on the cross,” then how do you explain God’s statements about counting them righteous and restored?
Now I suppose you could offer a bi-directional salvation, that is, those who lived before Yeshua died on the cross were counted as “saved” but really weren’t “completed” until after the death of Yeshua. Salvation had retroactive properties. Since we no longer live in anticipation of some godly arrangement to provide us with retroactive salvation, now we are completely saved as soon as we accept Yeshua because he has already died on the cross. That sounds plausible (I didn’t say correct) until we come across Yeshua’s own statement to the man lowered through the roof. “Your sins are forgiven,” doesn’t sound like, “In a few months, after I have died and been raised from the dead, your sins will actually be forgiven but for now you can consider them forgiven.” In fact, to prove his point, Yeshua restores the man to health. That doesn’t strike me as proleptic healing.
So with this tangle of terms, what do we do with the future, active, indicative, third person, singular verb sosei – “he will save.” Doesn’t that make it seem that salvation is still in the future? Doesn’t that indicate that salvation is not yet available because the crucifixion hasn’t yet happened? We are inclined to think of this Greek verb in Greek terms, that is, according to the Greek linear view of time. But a few corrections are in order. First, of course, is that the angel didn’t speak Greek to Joseph (and he didn’t tell Joseph to name his son “Jesus” either). The angel spoke Hebrew and in Hebrew actions are not past, present or future. They are complete or incomplete, that is, they are either finished or they are continuing. Although controversial, Thorlief Boman’s insight helps us see the essential and crucial difference between Greek and Hebrew verbal forms. Hebrew verbs basically express movement or activity, as opposed to Greek verbs which express states of being. So the Greek future tense expresses a yet-to-occur state of being (salvation is yet to occur – he will save) while Hebrew expresses the idea as a movement not fully complete (salvation already exists but its fullest sense is on the way to being revealed). When we read the Greek verb translated into English, we attached to the action the same static states of being associated with Greek thought about linear time. But when we realize that this sentence is really Hebrew, then the statement is not about something yet to come but rather about the illuminating fullness of salvation anticipated when the action is finally finished.
In Greek, Joseph waits for salvation. In Hebrew, Joseph already experiences salvation but anticipates its full expression.
OK, so why do we care about all this technical stuff? We care because if we understand the future tense Greek expressions as Hebraic, we realize that God’s saving grace has been active since the beginning but its full implications were not understood until the final act of the play – the cross and the resurrection. Guilt and the broken relationship that resulted from our defilement was anticipated and covered in the sacrifice of the Lamb before the foundation of the world, but the consequences of sin – death – was not finally overcome until the cross when we saw at last just how God dealt with the entire broken creation.
Why does this matter? Because if salvation is not available until after the crucifixion, then Abraham is not really reconciled to YHWH when YHWH says, “I will establish My covenant between Me and you.” And we really have two different religions!
Topical Index: save, sozo, salvation, Matthew 1:21
“First, of course, is that the angel didn’t speak Greek to Joseph (and he didn’t tell Joseph to name his son “Jesus” either).”
Definitely no way!
I would be SOOO let down if you had not said the above, Skip! (Big Smile!)
I have had countless encounters with Church folks regarding the name Jesus; if they believe in the Elohim YHWH of Israel, a Hebrew speaking people, then their Messiah is not Jesus of the Greek mindset.
The angel would have proclaimed that- YAH-He-Saves/Yahushua is His name (same as Joshua).
Yes, most of us came through that error, but halleluYAH, for the revelation of His wonderful true Name, being restored to us, through the restoration of the Hebrew language, the understanding of anti-Semitism and the replacement indoctrination. How uplifting is that?!
YES, we do have to work/walk out our salvation through fear and trembling, as we may fall if we are swayed by the winds of doctrine denying truth. We so need to stay on course, neither turning to the left, nor to the right. ABBA help us! Amein!
Shalom!
Just a minor correction. Yeshua is not the same a Joshua. Joshua in Hebrew is YeHoShua (Yah saves) while Yeshua is “salvation”
LOL that was what I meant! Same as Joshua in Hebrew.
Wondering how Hebrews 7:25 fits in this discussion given that the text seems to indicate that it is through Yeshua that we are able to be saved “completely” and that this is because of Yeshua’s present priestly ministry of interceding for us before the Father. Could He be interceding for me “today” in the same way He is interceding for Abraham or Peter and thereby preserving their salvation as well? (Cf also Luke 22:31-32 where Yeshua says He has prayed for Peter’s faith, that it not fail and then basically assures Peter that it won’t fail and that when he “returns”, to strengthen his brothers. – Sounds like for purposes of the assurance of our salvation, the greatest guarantee that we are and will remain saved are the prayers of Yeshua for us). Anyhow, in this sense, “salvation” isn’t just a one time-event but also an on-going function of the indestructible priesthood of Yeshua and dependent on His intercession for us which is also on-going.
Additionally, in I Peter 1:3-5, it appears that Peter speaks of our salvation as something given (“new birth into a living hope…an inheritance”), something kept for us in the heavenly realm (“inheritance that never will perish, spoil or fade” – perhaps Yeshua’s present priestly prayers before the Father?) and something yet to be completed (“until the coming of salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time”).
Sounds like “salvation” operates “in time” for us but is bigger than our idea of time – sort of that already but not yet. Maybe what is true for us today was also true for Abraham – already but not yet?
Very clearly and logically argued – how ironically Greek! 🙂
Since the fall, the basis of salvation has always been the death of Christ. No one, either prior to the cross or since the cross, would ever be saved without that one pivotal event in the history of the world. Christ’s death paid the penalty for past sins of O.T. saints and future sins of N.T. saints.
The requirement for salvation has always been faith. The object of one’s faith for salvation has always been God. “Blessed are all who take refuge in him” (Ps. 2:12).
Abraham believed God and that was enough for God to credit it to him for righteousness (Gen. and Rom. 4:3-8).
The O.T. sacrificial system did not take away sin, as Heb. 10:1-10 clearly teaches.
It pointed to the day when the Son of God would shed His blood for the sinful human race.
Adam believed the promise of God that the Seed of the woman would conquer Satan. The Lord indicated His acceptance of Adam’s belief by covering them with coats of skin (v. 21). At that point that is all Adam knew, but he believed it.
Abraham believed God according to the promises and revelation God gave him in Gen. 12 and 15. Before Moses, it wasn’t written, (but now is! Glory to God) but mankind was always responsible for what God has revealed.
O.T. believers came to salvation because they believed that God would someday take care of their sin problem. Today, we look back, believing that He has already taken care of our sins on the cross (John 3:16; Heb. 9:28).
Believe, believe, believe = faith.
Faith is the victory that overcomes the world. I John 5: 4
How beautiful.
Today we have full revelation — it has been written.
We know more than the very men who walked and talked with him– the disciples before the cross. They tried to prevent Him from the cross, but were saved because even tho they “didn’t get it” they still believed He would take care of their sin problem.
They didn’t know His death on the cross would accomplish that, any more than did Adam, Abraham, Moses, or David knew, BUT they believed God.
We know the full picture. “In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe” (Heb. 1:1-2).
Our salvation is still based on the atoning death of Christ, faith is still the requirement, and the object of our faith is still God.
Jesus Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He rose the third day (1 Cor. 15:3-4)
“Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.” Heb.13: 8
O how sweet the glorious message simple faith may claim
Yesterday, today, forever Jesus is the same.
Still He loves to save the sinful, heal the sick and lame
Cheer the mourner, still the tempest, glory to His Name.
Yesterday, today, forever, Jesus is the same.
All may change, but Jesus never! Glory to His Name!
Glory to His Name! Glory to His Name!
All may change, but Jesus never! Glory to His Name!
He, who was the Friend of sinners, seeks the lost one now
Sinner come, and at His footstool penitently bow
He Who said “I’ll not condemn thee, go and sin no more,”
Speaks to thee that word of pardon as in days of yore.
Oft on earth He healed the sufferer by His mighty hand
Still our sicknesses and sorrows go at His command
He who gave His healing virtue to a woman’s touch
To the faith that claims His fullness still will give as much.
As of old He walked to Emmaus, with them to abide
So through all life’s way He walketh ever near our side
Soon again we shall behold Him, Hasten Lord the day
But twill still be this same Jesus as He went away.
— Albert B. Simpson, 1890 (obviously a believer)
As am I.
(apologies to Carl for borrowing his style, it was just too tempting!)
I am suggesting that the basis for salvation has been the “sacrifice” of Yeshua, not quite the usual idea of the “death” of Christ on the cross, and that this occurred BEFORE the Fall, not after it nor because of it.
Sacrifice. Yes it was. Sacrifice is somehow a prettier word, but it was a sacrifice that was accomplished by death. Horrible, bloody, cold, lifeless, sullen, unresponsive, d e a t h.
The King of Terrors. Death.
(I use the word because it refutes that some say He “swooned” on the cross.)
And death meets the requirement of sin.
“The soul that sins shall surely die.”
“The wages of sin is death.”
It also compliments so beautifully the Resurrection.
Sunrise after blackness of night.
He was dead, now He is alive forevermore.
Sounds so much better than He was sacrifice, but now He is alive forevermore.
Tho both are certainly true.
I don’t like death. I don’t like the word. But I won’t avoid saying death of Christ. It OUGHT to ring a dreadful tolling bell in our hearts. What a terrible price He paid to redeem us.
Skip, you are always a gentleman. Thank you for kindly/gently commenting on my comments.
I truly thank you for your respect even in disagreement.
Blessings on your momma, she raised you right. This is not an “empty” compliment.
The Holy Spirit, Author, always mentioned the mothers of the kings, whether they be good kings or bad kings. It sort of lays a handful of results at their feet. Just my way of looking at it. someday.
What you say about death is true from the perspective of a sinner, but a kosher sacrifice doesn’t look like the death on a cross now, does it? Death is the King of Terrors which may be why the discussion with Pilate is about kingdoms and kings, not about forgiveness. And since Yeshua was sinless, the requirement of death doesn’t apply to him either. In fact, from the perspective of atonement for sin, the whole crucifixion is quite curious.
We have confused the death on the cross and the resurrection with the sacrifice for sin. When we actually read the text and realize that it had to make sense to JEWS who embraced Yeshua as the Messiah, we have to look at more than our usual explanation.
I’m sorry, but I’m having a difficult time understanding all this. Are you saying that Yeshua the Messiah died twice?
No, not at all. I am saying that the sacrifice which occurred on the heavenly altar in the heavenly Temple (as Hebrews suggests) happened before the foundation of the world, How precisely that occurred isn’t explained. The crucifixion, which does not meet the requirements of a sin sacrifice for a whole lot of reasons, is God’s deliverance from the consequences of sin, namely, death. So the sacrifice and the crucifixion work together, one may in fact be a sign of the other, but we make a mistake by combining the two into one event, that is, claiming that the death on the cross IS the sacrifice for sin. Even Yeshua points us toward something else (See my discussion on John 3:14). We’ve been working on this for awhile now. Go back are read all the TWs that lead in this direction. There is a book coming.
Did you ever publish this book?
Yes, Cross Word Puzzles, available on my web site.
Thanks, Skip, this does clarify your point. I’ll be looking forward to the book.
I prefer the kosher sacrifice, swift with a tested sharpened knife.
Crucifixion is horrific. Explain why you say it is curious, Skip?
Trying to ‘pick’ your thoughts 🙂
Thanks.
“She will bear a son, and you shall call his name Jesus, for he will save his people from their sins. Matthew 1:21 ESV”
Hmmm
Makes me think of my favorite line in The Usual Suspects
Regarding the mystery of legendary criminal Kesyer Soze
Verbal: “To a cop the explanation is never that complicated”
To save is a verb that means
“Keep safe or rescue (someone or something) from danger.”
IMO Jesus comes for the lost sheep, not the dead ones
To show them the way
“So he drove out the man: and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the Tree of Life.” Genesis 3:24”
BTW I’ve got a three pack here of DVD’s that speak to the flaming sword and the Tree of Life
Denzel’s Man on Fire, Courage Under Fire, and The Siege are all great movies that inspire
What Baba, in the ancient hom fire ceremony, calls Fire in the Belly
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?tab=wm#inbox/1182ad5d50d85d5b
I just don’t understand why you stop at the cross and resurrection as the completion point? The text doesn’t say that.
If the cross and resurrection were the completion point then the “greater things” might not ever happen.
Surely “salvation” does not accurately describe Yeshua’s purpose? To me, “deliverance” makes far more sense. And my understanding is currently that forgiveness has always existed and has always been Abba YHWH’s to give, even before Yeshua’s suffering. The great thing of what Yeshua accomplished was to bring restoration to us as a people and also as individuals. He DELIVERED/DELIVERS us from bondage and makes it possible for us to be obedient because He lives in us. But Abba YHWH is always and has been the One to forgive.
Throughout my life I have had a relationship with Abba YHWH. I have always prayed to Him, sought Him, and asked for forgiveness, even in the midst of routine and intentional sin. And I have always asked for those things in the Name of Jesus/Yeshua. But it was only at the age of 23 that I truly laid down my own life, truly submitted, and was “born again” through Yeshua. I became a new person, treating people differently and behaving differently. I found myself delivered from habitual sins that I thought I never would be free from. They were no longer a battle. My relationship with Abba YHWH deepened and grew in intimacy, and continues to grow.
So in my timeline I have always had a relationship with the God of Yisrael, but when Yeshua entered my timeline (for real), my life changed and became better/fuller/more meaningful. That is not to say that He is done with me. There are still things I know I need to overcome. I have much to learn and much to grow into. And I know Yeshua will help me with those things.
But perhaps my personal timeline is a reflection of the bigger picture/collective timeline? People like Abraham had a relationship with Abba YHWH but perhaps they did not experience the fullness that Yeshua brings? Maybe all those that died pre-Yeshua’s suffering have subsequently or will still experience that fullness? I don’t know. But there are things we all have yet to experience which we know Yeshua will still bring. We have not experienced the whole story yet. I fully agree with the idea of active motion and continuous progression rather than static states of being.
What I do struggle with is (and perhaps this is linear thinking which desires timeline), did Adam experience the fullness of Yeshua? And why was it necessary for Yeshua to suffer when He did? Why not sooner (or later)?
As for WHY at that precise time, only YHWH understands, as the use of kairos makes clear. But I would add to your comments that we severely underestimate the scope of the deliverance if we continue to see it as a purely human event. Paul makes it very clear that the whole creation waited for this, and if that is true, then there is something connected to sin that affects all of creation, and that needed restoration.
Revelation 13:8 “……. the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”
Since Christ went to the cross at an appointed and specific place in time, (kairos?), Christ being slain from the foundation of the world illustrates not only that He was foreordained to be slain, but also that the efficacy — beneficial effects –, is the same as if that sacrifice had been made before the creation of the world.
I tell my kids I’ll show up with the potato salad, its as good as done, tho not actually done until I set it on the picnic table? My word, my intention is as good as done, so they think.
But since I’m not infallible, so I can slip up between here and there.
Not God tho. His purposes are as good as done forever.
You are saying this, YES or NO?
No, I am not saying that the phrase “before the foundation of the world,” is merely INTENTION. The author of Hebrews tells us that the sacrifice was made in a temple not built with human hands, and that it was a real sacrifice that had real effects. It wasn’t just a PLAN. Ask yourself if any first century Jew, including Paul, would have viewed the cross as a place of atonement. Ask yourself if the passover lamb was slain for the forgiveness of sin. Something doesn’t add up. Start reading without the influence of 1900 years of Christian doctrine and see where you go.
We do have heaps to learn and un-learn, reason why I/we are here at your blog, so much interesting topics that you challenge us with, give it to us, Skip!
In order for the Jews (Israelites of the tribe of Judah only) and for all the “other” 10 tribes of Israel which have been dispersed to the Nations… to understand salvation, sacrifice, and the reason Yeshua
had to die on the tree/cross… I believe one has to go back to the Torah..the beginning of the book for the complete and true explanation. The “law” states that in order for there to be a Holy /Kodesh marriage
there must be the death of the husband in order for the bride to remarry again. Duet. 24:1-5,Romans 7:1-6 explains Yeshua (the husband) died to release the Bride ( Israel) back to YHWH whom He had divorced because of His beloved wife who committed adultery and fornicated with other gods. Yesuahs death released us His Bride to be brought back into covenant with Abba legally by HIS law. Also the 30 pieces of silver the price of redemption of the land was bought back at the same time which frees the land back to His bride waiting His return! Let scripture be our dictionary and explanation made by two or three witnesses. One more reason for His death was ” the penalty for sin according to the law is death”, Romans 6:23 and Gen 2:17, which He took for us.
Beautiful, Lynn, I agree with that.
At the point of Yahushua’s death, He called “kallah”, for His “Bride”, which is translated as “finished”.
Our (common) salvation, both to the Jew and the Greek (whosoever will!) is much like Elohim Himself, a tri-unity. We have been saved from the penalty of sin (death). We are being saved from the power (or dominion) of sin (sin shall no longer have dominion or authority over you!) and we will be saved (may it be soon) from the presence of sin. Past-present-future- all provided for and sponsored by the New (completely final and fulfilled) Covenant, at Calvary.
Now what about O.T. saints? Did YHWH provide for them as well? Where? and How?- Yom Kippur? The Day of Atonement? Yes. Blood was sprinkled upon the mercy seat. But what about before the Temple existed? Did YHWH provide a “covering” of skins for our “not-so-great-no-so-grandparents?” Yes. Blood was spilled and a covering of animal skins was provided- all foreshadowing the greater Sacrifice, yet to be. Passover. What was applied to the doorposts of the house that night? It was blood. And (according to God’s own words: ~ when I see the blood, I will pass over you ~. And it came to pass, and it was so. God did deliver on His promise, and God did deliver, through a great deliverance. ~ and how shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation? ~
~ These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ ~
From shadow to substance, from foretold to fulfilled, from shades of night to plains of light, from a Temple for His people to a people for His temple ~ Christ has once suffered for sins, the Just for the unjust that He might bring us to God,being put to death in the flesh, but made alive by the Spirit; by which also He went and preached to the spirits in prison ~ (I would’ve liked to have heard that sermon!)
For you know (or do you know?) that you were redeemed from your empty way of life inherited from the fathers, not with perishable things like silver or gold,
but
~with the precious blood of Christ, as of a Lamb without blemish and without spot: …~ (1 Peter 1.18,19)
~ Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us. ~ (1 Corinthians 5.17)
~In Him (*in Christ*) we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace ~ (Ephesians 1.7)
Some thoughts: When the saints of old encountered YHWH, did they not also encounter Yeshua? AND when we encounter Yeshua, do we not also encounter YWHW? Isn’t true faith that of YWHW anyway? Do WE have any faith on our own? What He created, performed and revealed for our instruction and benefit, isn’t our belief and “faith” predicated on what we live out or “work out” in practice, in obedience to our Father’s directions for living?
I wonder if those who practice and observe Torah, truly have “faith” in the Yeshua that is truly the Son of the Living Elohim. Maybe because they do not believe in the Christian Jesus, per se, does not actually disqualify them from faith? Maybe He is hidden from them because of the words/teachings of men who deny His Jewish heritage. And yet, maybe they are alive in the Spirit, in a proleptic way? Also, those who are obedient to the letter of the Law are still not there yet, until they receive the gift of His heart of flesh (Yeshua).
I see this too as not judging anothers’ walk, because we do not know what their “end” will be. All we can do is relay our Father’s Words without an agenda and trust that they are or “will become” the sheep of His Pasture, hear His Voice and shema. Shabbat Shalom
“When the saints of old encountered YHWH, did they not also encounter Yeshua? AND when we encounter Yeshua, do we not also encounter YWHW?”
Hi Mary,
I’m guessing I could say that when I encountered Yeshua in the Lord’s Prayer yesterday
I also encountered YHWH at the same time
And when I chant the OM (to achieve Shalom) I go directly to God
If I’m not mistaken, the Catholics believe that when they encounter God the Father
They always encounter the Son and the Holy Ghost at the same time
Because in the Trinity, the three forms of God are One
It seems logical enough to me and I don’t think we can prove them wrong
But then why would we want to, we are not responsible for their beliefs? IMO
Speaking of Father/Son relationships
I put Spy Game on the DVD player about an hour ago
With Robert Redford teaching Brad Pitt how to “master the game”
Masterly directed by Tony Scott
It is also a love story of sorts
Unfortunately, Brad falls in love with the enemy
And almost gets himself killed
Fortunately, the old sorcerer (RR)
Never lets his apprentice get out of control
Hi Michael,
I don’t think it is a question of right vs wrong…but rather a question of mistakenness. Mistaken identity maybe?
It seems there is a pattern indicated in the Scripture of our being able to identify with what has been revealed by YHWH as truth vs. what another entity CLAIMS as truth. Abraham believed God and he was credited as being righteous. Moses believed God and left a plush and privileged life to deliver a nation from slavery. Joshua followed in Moses’ footsteps. Yeshua followed in His Father’s footsteps, or pathway, if you will and delivered those who would believe in His Work at Calvary, to a land of promise and eternal Shalom. Paul and the Apostles followed in Yeshua’s footsteps, or Way. A common dilemma for mankind when confronted with the choice: His Way or some other path. You are correct, I believe…we are not responsible for another’s beliefs. However, I do think we are each accountable to the same One for our own. We each have our own set of legs and journey, however, the path is marked with the same set of directions for the same destination. 🙂
“However, I do think we are each accountable to the same One for our own.”
Hi Mary,
I agree with you in general and what you say probably applies to me
However Matt 7:1 says “Don’t judge, so that you won’t be judged
And folks like the Trobriand Islanders had a very different view of the world 🙂
The Trobriand Islanders of the Melanesian region, as well as many other cultures in the Australian and New Guinea regions, had a belief that there was no cause and effect relationship between sexual intercourse and pregnancy. The Trobrianders believed that the Baloma, spirits of the dead, would return from the afterlife and impregnate women when they bathed in the lagoon, thus reincarnating the dead ancestor.
“Baloma” Any relation to Baal?
This is a wonder to me, Michael. I know that YHWH is aware of everything that goes on in the world and He told His people not to learn the ways of the heathen. But the answer to the question of what happens to these people who have never heard the gospel, the Word that is able to ……. them? Without being presented with the choice of obedience, I think this is a question that makes one go hmmm, and then realize that only He has the answer to that one.
Opinions and theories abound, and the fact is, that is well above my pay grade.
For many years, I could not quite wrap my heart around the gospel. My thoughts about “the experience” seemed to me to be compared to lightning striking…I couldn’t fathom what all the fuss was about. I asked God repeatedly to help me see…the more I asked, the more I wanted to know. He began the work, and being a slow learner, I finally began to come into understanding. Oftentimes, lately, this knowledge continues evolving, growing, I would say. I continue to ask Him to continue His Work in me today! He has not let me down yet!!
P.S. There are times now that seem like a thunder and lightning encounter with YHWH.
“Baloma” Any relation to Baal?
well above my pay grade”
Hi Mary,
That’s a good point about Baal, and maybe Baloma is also the origin of baloney
Well learning Hebrew is above my pay grade, but I think we can all understand
How God works
If I’m not mistaken, what we learned from Dr Spock in Star Trek
Is that everything in the universe has a logic designed into it
And because God is by definition good, fair, and trustworthy
He would never design people to think and act in ways
That are contrary to his will and commandments
Then punish them for their ignorance
Without first informing them of His laws
It is illogical
But maybe the Trobriand Islanders were like Adam and Eve
In their state of innocence?
Hi Mary,
When the saints of old encountered YHWH, did they not also encounter Yeshua? AND when we encounter Yeshua, do we not also encounter YWHW?
They certainly do, and I believe that too. They did erred in some ways, but were examples to us, in their walk of faith/trust in YHWH. They adhere to the Torah way of life, and judgement is quick to anyone who does otherwise.
In fact, mankind got more corrupted and wicked for not having that instant judgement from YHWH to stop them in their tracks.
Shalom!
Yes, Ester. His mercy is often taken for granted. I think we get sidetracked and tend to stray. This seems, to me, to be the difference in one who, like David, is a man/woman after the heart of YHWH, and one who is in obstinate and deliberated rebellion.
Shalom Mary!
So sad for those folks as they are under darkness, regardless if they choose to remain that way or, they are so blinded.
May ABBA YHWH keep us from presumptuous sins; to presume His lovingkindness will be forever, forgetting/ignorant that there will be a judgement day coming, no matter.
” I know that YHWH is aware of everything that goes on in the world and He told His people not to learn the ways of the heathen. But the answer to the question of what happens to these people who have never heard the gospel, the Word that is able to ……. them? Without being presented with the choice of obedience, I think this is a question that makes one go hmmm, and then realize that only He has the answer to that one.” Amein to this, Mary!
We serve an amazing Elohim though! Prayers in such a case play a vital role.
I heard a personal testimony of a wife who died being falsely diagnosed for tummy ache, and sent home, when her appendix burst, and her fingers turned blue, was rushed to hospital by her husband, who was on his knees beside her bed pleading for ABBA’s mercies to save his ‘unsaved’ wife.
She went into the depths of darkness falling into a pit, she was screaming! Then a Hand came through and pulled her out, and she came back to life, after doctors thought she died!
HalleluYAH! She lived to share this testimony!
How great and merciful our YHWH is! How great You are, ABBA YHWH, how great You are!
Shalom!
Yes and Amen. Shalom, Ester.
The N.T. definitely connects the Passover lamb and THE real Passover Lamb, Jesus Christ.
John the Baptist recognized Jesus as “the Lamb of God”
Peter links the them, he called a Christ a “lamb without blemish or defect” (1 Pet. 1:19).
No sin in Jesus.
John saw Jesus as “a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain” (Rev. 5:6).
Jesus was crucified during the time that the Passover was observed (Mark 14:12).
That was perhaps the biggest ‘hello’ knock on the forehead of all.
As already stated today on here, Christ’s applied blood causes God’s judgment to pass over sinners and gives life to believers (Rom. 6:23).
The first Passover marked the Hebrews’ release from Egyptian slavery, so the death of Christ marks our release from the slavery of sin (Romans 8:2).
Just as remembrance of the first Passover was to be held as an annual feast, so Christians remember the blood applied via communion until He returns (1 Cor. 11:26).
Well said, sister Dorothy! I would add only one thing.. (ever so small?- lol!) We serve a Living Savior! He is risen, (just as He said!..) Yes, (once again..)- “and it came to pass..”
Psalm138:2: ~ For You have magnified Your word above all Your Name ~
~ We have also a more sure word of prophecy; to which you do well that you take heed, (listen intently!) as unto a Light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the Day Star arise in your hearts: knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. No prophecy ever originated from humans. Instead, it was given by the Holy Spirit (the Ruach HaKodesh) as humans spoke under God’s direction ~ (2 Peter 1.19-21)
I still remember this from Sunday School:
I serve a risen Savior; He’s in the world today.
I know that He is living, whatever men may say.
I see His hand of mercy, I hear His voice of cheer,
And just the time I need Him He’s always near.
He lives! He lives! Christ Jesus lives today!
He walks with me and talks with me along life’s narrow way.
He lives! He lives! Salvation to impart!
You ask me how I know He lives? He lives within my heart.
Rejoice, rejoice, O Christian! Lift up your voice and sing
Eternal hallelujahs to Jesus Christ, the King!
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“Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.”
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