The Planos Truth
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. 2 John 7 NASB
Deceivers – Letters are half of a conversation between people. In order to understand what the letter says, we have to reconstruct what the other party would have said. Sometimes this is fairly easy. Sometimes it is quite difficult. In this case, John actually tells us why he writes about these “deceivers.” They are people who claim that Yeshua did not actually exist as a physical human being. In theology, this is called Docetism, but, of course, in John’s day the names of various heresies weren’t invented yet. Docetism claims that Yeshua was simply an appearance of a human being. He was divine but only took on the semblance of humanity.
With all the events surrounding Yeshua’s life, why would anyone claim that he wasn’t really a human being, that he was God disguised as a man? The answer comes from understanding the power of Greek philosophy in the first century – and this helps us understand how powerful it still is today. Greek philosophy contended that this world was essentially corrupt and evil. The material world was filled with defects; it was imperfect and could never be straightened out. The only true and perfect reality was the spiritual world, a world removed from the decaying material world. Therefore, any taint of this world meant imperfection and impurity. It follows that if Yeshua were really human, he would automatically be tainted by the corruption of this world and therefore could not be divine and faultless. So he must have only appeared as human but not really have been human in his essential being. Of course, all of the apostles deny this.
You might think that this whole argument is ridiculous. It seems as if all the evidence we have about Yeshua clearly points to his humanity. But paradigms are very powerful and they often re-read the facts according to the belief. We may consider Yeshua human, but think about the implications of this Greek idea in other areas of our lives. This Greek philosophy teaches us that our physical bodies are a source of our sinful existence. In other words, the fact that we have bodies and are subject to bodily passions is why we sin. This idea also stands behind the notion that physical existence is somehow inferior to “spiritual” existence and that because we are physical, we are fallen. It isn’t very far from here to the doctrine that I sin because I am human (“I just can’t help it” but once I have been raptured out of this world, I will be perfect. Of course, this also implies that the “new” heaven and the “new” earth won’t have anything to do with the old, corrupt and imperfect earth where we abide today. When Plato introduced the split between heaven and earth, between the “Good” and the imperfect, he introduced the world to a dualism that continues to haunt our thinking. In fact, much of the Christian idea of heaven and the rapture depends on Plato, not Scripture. Plato’s dualism also implies that we are leaving this old, imperfect world behind so what does it matter what happens here. We are just waiting to leave the prison of our bodies so we can exist as perfect spirits in the new world.
Have you been deceived? Is your thinking influenced by this false dualism? Do you think of heaven as the perfect spiritual place but earth as the home of bodily prisons? John writes that those who walk down this path are the antichrist. Is that a warning for us? We might believe Yeshua was a man who was also God, but do we allow this Greek thinking to change our views about our bodies, sin, this world and the world to come? It might be time to deal with the planos truth (planos is Greek for “deceiver”).
Topical Index: deceiver, planos, dualism, Docetism, Plato, 2 John 7
So much to chew on in this TW.
How we think is related to how we act, or re-act.
So thoughts, tied to emotions are powerful in that sense.
So, transformation through the renewal of our minds/hearts are crucial.
Even spirits have emotions, but, not having a physical body I guess that would be so different?
Is that why lustful spirits seek to possess man (generally speaking) to fulfill their lusts?
Then to be both physical and spiritual would be the perfect being to be? As man was created in the
beginning in the Garden.
We have lost that beautiful spiritual aspect of our physical being, which is being restored! Amein!
And, as that restoration comes through, the beauty of the spiritual man comes forth in all its magnificence in the physical!
This is the reason why mankind could not accept Yahushua as both man and Elohim.
I hope there is more coming regarding this post. How needful for us to consider. Mind blowing what damage Plato did to scripture and the idea of church. The deceiver crept in and muddied up the waters for many generations to follow!
My understanding is that Y-H is in the process of renewing Earth because the new heaven and new earth will be here. In Rev we see the New Jerusalem coming down (where?) to earth!
I do not see the Messiah as part God and part human. He has a beginning and it is in Mary’s womb. He was *created* to fulfill a special purpose. He was Y-H’s chosen and anointed son. If he were God in the flesh what then would be the point? He came a man to chose to live a sinless life to the point of death on the cross. We are to strive to live like him and how then could we do this if he were really Y-H (whom we cannot fully comprehend)?
If Messiah be Y-H in the flesh then do we not worship two Gods? Or three if you throw in the Holy Spirit too! It gets crazy fast. How could Y-H die on that cross if the Messiah were really Y-H?
Why would Messiah pray to himself in John 17?
We are so Greek in our thinking that we don’t know we are doing it. We have always assumed this to be truth-at least I have. It is impossible apart from a supernatural opening of our eyes and ears to learn differently. I have to clear my head sometimes minute by minute to get the Greek out and think from a Hebrew angle. Trust me-I am a babe in this (no scholar here!) LOL
Are there any people groups out there who have not been influenced by Greek and still naturally think more like the Hebrew would have? I would like to sit at their feet and listen!
Very well done post Skip. I can’t wait for more on this.
I appreciate very much your comments, Dawn. The Word was with God at the beginning. God spoke, and all things were created. Later, the Word became flesh. Previous “appearances” (Melchizedek, for instance), were…what? Did God speak, and the Word created an appearance of an individual, but not of human origin? The Word was an individual completely and expressly of human origin. He was called the Son of Man. He was also called the Son of God, but to my knowledge He never called Himself “God.” Does it seem sensible that Yeshua would have accomplished all that He did if He were God? Including dying? And staying dead for three days and three nights? Any opinions or critiques on my reasoning would be much appreciated!
Yeshua was fully God and fully man. Not sure it is something we can explain. He did not come as God but as a man, one who was in all points tempted as we are and yet without sin. From Phil 2.
6. Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
Hope this helps.
Hi Thomas! I would agree with your reasoning. Y-H cannot die and no, the Messiah never called himself Y-H. There were many gods in those days ( think Lord of the Manor or master of the castle) but only EVER one Y-H.
I believe that Messiah was obedient to Y-H to the point of having the essence of Him (Y-H) oozing out of his (Jesus’) pores, if that makes sense. There is a thing in Hebrew called agency that I have not yet seen in any posts and I have not nearly read all of them so it may well be there. I just haven’t found it yet.
“For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.” 2 John 7 NASB
Hi Dawn,
My kids were with me this weekend, which was great, but for some reason I feel a bit fatigued
And might not be able to do justice to the issues we have raised
But it seems to me that John is saying that the argument of the Deceivers is antithetical
To the argument of those who believe that Jesus was the Messiah ben David
To me this seems to be a logical argument because, in my understanding, the Messiah ben Joseph
“will act as a precursor to the Messiah ben David and will prepare the world for the coming of the final redeemer.”
The main function of the Messiah ben Joseph will be political and military in nature.
The Messiah, son of Joseph, shall wage war against the evil forces, and die in combat with the enemies of God and Israel.
The Messiah ben Joseph will be killed.
This is described in the prophecy (Zechariah 12:10):
“they shall mourn him as one mourns for an only child.”
After his death there will be a period of great calamities, which shall be the final test for Israel.
After this, the Messiah ben David shall come, avenge his death, resurrect him and all the dead, and usher in the Messianic era of everlasting universal peace.
But, as I recall, Matthew wnts us to see Jesus as the Messiah ben David, who does not die
I guess my main point is that Jesus does not fit the description of either Messiah IMO
This is new to me. Can ‘t say I have ever considered this and it seems complicated for child like faith.
Hi Michael-Glad to meet you. I have been reading your posts! 🙂
I am seriously challenged (hehe) but intent on learning about the Hebrew culture and language that scripture was written in.
“This is new to me.”
Hi Dawn,
Well this stuff is pretty new to me too; I didn’t know that the Messiah ben Joseph
Was supposed to die until last night, but then yah learn something new every day
On the other hand, from what I understand, the Messiah ben Joseph
Was to be a “warlike” King
Not at all like Jesus who was a “Prince of Peace”
And while Jesus does seem to think of himself as the Messiah
The anointed Son of God and Son of Man
Who will deliver the Jewish nation as prophesied in the Hebrew Bible
And while Matthew does imply that Jesus descends from the House of King David
David himself seems more like the character Will Graham (Clive Owen)
In the movie I’ll Sleep When I’m Dead (2003)
Than like the Lord Jesus Christ
Who commands us to “love our enemies”
More corrections and additions.
There are two recognizable Messiahs in Jewish eschatology. The first is Messiah ben Joseph, who follows the figure of the Suffering Servant in Isaiah. The second is Messiah ben David who is the expected King of glory. Both Jewish rabbis and Christian theologians acknowledge this. The argument is whether these are the SAME person or two different people. It’s fairly clear what Christians believe. Jews still await the promised Messiah ben David, whom even Christians admit has not arrived. Putting the two models together is the problem.
There are two recognizable Messiahs in Jewish eschatology. The first is Messiah ben Joseph, who follows the figure of the Suffering Servant in Isaiah. The second is Messiah ben David who is the expected King of glory.
Hi Skip,
Thanks, my view of the two Messiahs is much foggier than yours
SKIP: There are two recognizable Messiahs in Jewish eschatology. The first is Messiah ben Joseph, who follows the figure of the Suffering Servant in Isaiah.
MIKE: When I read the Bible from E2E years ago, I don’t recall two Messiahs
MIKE: My two memories are of Jesus seeing himself in the Suffering Servant
MIKE: And Matthew aligning Jesus with King David
MIKE: So I thought Jesus was MD in his own eyes, because he was not related to his father, Joseph, who was nobody to begin with in my understanding
Then about 5 years ago, I came across a book by Edward T. Edinger, MD, called Melville’s Moby Dick
Based on my level of interest in MMD I read quite a few other books by ETE
And ETE talked about two Messiahs, which I found extraordinarily interesting
As I recall, based on what I read, I concluded that Jesus must have been the Messiah ben Joseph
Because EFE must have been a Jew and Jews don’t believe Jesus is the Messiah ben David
Maybe you can clarify these issues for me 🙂
But I can barely remember my name at this point so I can
May I refer you to the excellent audio on this subject by Bob Gorelik. Much better than my email answers.
Dawn, thank you so much for your post! I can understand, (no,not fully, but to a degree) the confusion that exists regarding God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit (the Holy Ruach or Breath.)
First and foremost, God IS One. And there is only One God. Oh! I almost forgot. I forgot to introduce myself. Where to begin? I’d like to start at 2 Corinthians 5.17, (if I may) where there is neither Jew nor Greek but a new creation *in Christ.* *in The Messiah.*
It matters not whether “any man or woman” is Jewish or Gentile- yes, “in the flesh” there may be a distinction or a division, a “clash of the cultures” if you will, but as the Word of God simply states, (yes, I love simplicity!)- “ALL” have sinned and fallen short of the mark. There is none among us, (whether Jew or Gentile or male or female) who may say it and know it “which of you convinces me of sin?” I certainly cannot. I would be one of those ready to stone the woman caught in the very act of adultery (gotta wonder how they knew so “readily” where to find her!) but would drop my rock, along with everyone else present at this scene, when Jesus of Nazareth, the carpenter’s son said, “let him who is without sin cast the first stone!”.
I have come to a final decision in my life, the Word of God is absolutely true and reliable and I am indeed and in truth and in practice and in thought- a sinner. And one in need of a One to Deliver.
I agree with the Apostle Paul, who said “Who shall Deliver me from the body of this death?”
From the “yetser hara?” We “all” are frail, fallible and fallen creatures. I also agree with Yeshua concerning his encounter with the original “Nick at nite,” one Nicodemus, whose very name in Hebrew is “Superior.” A very fine citizen, a moral man and one who has standing or position in the community. A ruler of the Jews. No small potatoes- this man. Yes, our Savior said to him, “you (sir) must be born from Above. We “all” need to be “born from Above.” This is both crucial and imperative. We “must” be born from Above. This is the “second birth.”
Yes, I have been “born twice.” Once, (I’m here ain’t I?-lol!) from mom and dad (thanks y’all!) and again through my spiritual parents, the Word of God and the Breath of God (the Ruach HaKodesh).
This event occurred when I was but a young lad of ten. I knew then I was a sinner in need of a Savior. I knew it then, but I really know it now! (lol!) More than ever! I need Him! (yes m’am and yes sir!)
For He has said, “without Me- you can do nothing!” (Nothing is a zero with the edges trimmed off!)
WoW! How can we testify to someone “without” of the changes that have transpired within?
Where to begin? (this could get long!)
The Apostle Paul (formerly known as Saul!) said this: “Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is for them to be saved.” (Romans 10.1)
“Saved.” What strange language this must be to any man or any woman outside of the Body of Christ! The Philippian jailer said to Paul and Silas, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?” (Acts 16.30) Does anyone remember the answer they gave to this man who at that “kairos”moment knew exactly what (Who) he needed? (Acts 16.31)
Yes, they gave him a communal answer – you and your household – that depended on the shift from the world of pagan beliefs and practices to the world of deliverance and Torah practices (“into”). But now that we have answered this question, Carl, what were you going to say about the Trinitarian construction?
I’d like to submit my little bit here. Not about the wide range of teaching out there and what this or that Rabbi said, — I simply look to The Word given.
The Bible, absolutely teaches the Trinity.
The Father is God (John 6:27; Rom. 1:7; 1 Pet. 1:2).
Jesus Christ is God (John 1:1, 14; Rom. 9:5; Col. 2:9; Heb. 1:8; 1 John 5:20).
The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4; 1 Cor. 3:16).
But, there is only one God (Deut. 6:4; 1 Cor. 8:4; Gal. 3:20; 1 Tim. 2:5).
How the idea of Persons within the Trinity is fully compatible with monotheism is impossible to understand. Maybe the sooner we admit this, the better.
How does anyone ever arrive at the point that they imagine they can fully understand the big, big God Who created everything?
It may be pride or arrogance, that continually motivates people to try to develop a theology that results in the Trinity making sense.
At some point, believers (check point: does evidence show we believers or doubters?) need to just accept, in FAITH, what the Bible says.
What then to do with these?
To you it was shown that you might know that the LORD, He is God; there is no other besides Him…Know therefore today, and take it to your heart, that the LORD, He is God in heaven above and on the earth below; there is no other. Deut 4:35,39
Yahweh our God, Yahweh is one Deut 6:4; Mark 12:29
See now that I, I am He, and there is no God besides Me. Deut 32:39
The is no God beside Me…I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, stretching out the heavens by Myself, and spreading out the earth all alone. Is. 44:6,24
And Jesus himself when asked “What commandment is foremost of all?” He answers with the unitarian-monotheistic creed which had been recited and believed by Israel for over 1500 years;Shema Yisrael which is to say…”Hear, O Israel; the LORD our God is one LORD; and you shall love the Lord you God with all your heart, and with all our soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.” Mark 12:29-30
I believe them by faith as well. As I have said, How does anyone ever arrive at the point that they imagine they can fully understand the big, big God Who created everything?
Nothing is impossible to Him, especially not being bigger and being able to easily do more than us puny humans can grasp. I look at the stars and know He knows every atom that combines them, I look at the birds and know He calls them all by name and that He attends sparrow funerals. And I know that I/we am more valuable to Him than them. I feel His love, and I read of His love for me/us. I lay my fingers upon His Words and my heart tells Him that I love Him back.
I believe.
Fully understanding is NOT the issue here. No one claims to fully understand. But on crucial matters of theological identity, yes, it had better make sense and be tied directly to Scripture. And unless you wish to state it as DOGMA, you had better be able to defend it.
On your second point, there are many things God cannot do. For example, He cannot make a rock so big that He cannot lift it. Why not? Because the statement is self-contrdictory if you understand what omnipotence means. The naive claim that God can do anything obscures the LOGICAL requirements of intelligible communication. I know what you meant to say, but in this arena (theological debate) you must be very careful. This is not mystical devotion. This is the search for understanding.
Maybe it’s impossible to understand (Millard Erickson agrees with you here) because it is nonsense. Do you suppose that God would have hidden such an important truth in the obscurity of debatable texts and not revealed it until 300 years AFTER the resurrection to a group of Christian bishops? The Trinity is an essential identifying doctrine of Christianity, but if it is SO CLEAR in Scripture, then why haven’t 5000 years of Jewish sages not discovered it? And does faith really mean throwing aside reason (as Kierkegaard proposed). That isn’t the Hebrew idea of faith. Lots more to this than we think.
A new Heaven and a New Earth? May it be so. And according to the holy scriptures, the Word of God, it shall be! (Revelation 21.1) But of exceedingly far greater worth than this, may there be a new Man who is now a new creation, a man or woman who, for such a time as this, has been born from Above and one who has welcomed and received with meekness the Resurrected-Reigning-Sovereign-Shepherd-Savior-King, the Living Word of God, Yeshua HaMashiach, our LORD Jesus who is the Anointed One, and may that one be blessed abundantly, and know Whom they have believed and be fully persuaded that He able to keep that which has been committed to Him against that day- the Day of our LORD, when He shall show, in His times, Who is the only wise God -our King- Eternal, Immortal, Invisible, the only wise God, to Him (and to Him alone) be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
~ Then I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll with writing on both sides and sealed with seven seals. And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spiritsa of God sent out into all the earth. He went and took the scroll from the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. And when He had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of God’s people. And they sang a new song, saying:
“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.
You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”
Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. In a loud voice they were saying:
“Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!”
Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:
“To Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!”
The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped. ~ (Revelation 5)
Carl, except for “Amen”, this is not a comment about your comment.
I wanted you to see this page and look about this site when you have time.
http://brandplucked.webs.com/graceofgoddestroyed.htm
lol! Okay Dorothy, as “grievous” as it was to read, -I have done it. Before commentary, though- what would be the inquiry? (Whether or not KJV only?)
I didn’t need a reply, but … yes, I’d like to know what you think?
Sorry, I’m afraid I always infringe — giving people ‘big jobs’ — those whose opinion I value.
I seek them out and skip up to them with the confidence of a child that they will delve in!
Very bad habit, I expect you are thinking 🙂
Skip,
Love where you are going here–can’t wait for more. Two authors who do a great job exploring these ideas (body not evil and heaven is here) are:
Christopher West, exploring Pope John Paul’s Theology of the Body:
“Fill These Hearts: God, Sex and Human Longing” (http://www.amazon.com/Fill-These-Hearts-Universal-Longing/dp/0307987132/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1367763118&sr=8-1&keywords=christopher+west )
“At he Heart of the Gospel: Reclaiming the Body for the New Evangelization” (http://www.amazon.com/At-Heart-Gospel-Reclaiming-Evangelization/dp/0307987116/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y )
NT Wright:
“How God Became King: The Forgotten Story of the Gospels” (http://www.amazon.com/How-God-Became-King-Forgotten/dp/0061730572/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1367763354&sr=1-1&keywords=how+god+became+king )
On that day (what day? the day of the LORD) living water shall issue from Jerusalem, half flowing to the western sea and half to the western, in summer and winter alike. The the Lord shall become king over all the earth; on that day the Lord shall be ONE Lord and his name the ONE name. Zech 14:8-9 (emphasis mine 🙂
May it be so!
One thing that we can all “look to” and be thankful for, is that our Savior and Advocate defeated our adversary as a man! Not once, not twice, but three times He said to the deceiver these very words (which are among my favorite three) “it is written!” “I love you” is a close second, but the words “it is written” is “in there” just for us! Our Bible says “comfort one another with these words..” Whose words? God’s words found in God’s Book,our Bible.
~ I have hidden Your word in my heart that I might not sin against You.~ (Psalm 119.11) To meditate, marinate and saturate ourselves in God’s Word should be our daily bread and our daily exercise. Yes, through prayer and by carefully, thoughtfully studying the word of God. The way we get to know God is not only through nature (His creation),but also through a very special Book He has written for our instruction. ~ How can a young man keep his way pure? By living according to Your word ~ (Psalm 119.9)
“The days are coming,” declares the Sovereign LORD, “when I will send a famine through the land– not a famine of food or a thirst for water, but a famine of hearing the words of the LORD.” (Amos 8.11)
How blessed we are to have ears willing to hear, hearts willing to obey, hands ready and willing to do His will.
~ Come, everyone who is thirsty, come to the waters! Also, you that have no money, come, buy, and eat! Come! Buy wine and milk without money and without price ~ (Isaiah 55.1) These words were also promised by our Savior, (John 4:14) ~ but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”
There’s a lot of good stuff in God’s Book. Maybe we should pick it up and read what is written. Is God capable of communicating His word to us? ~ Is anything too hard for the LORD? ~
Hi Carl,
Very nice to meet you! My husband and I walked out of an “institutional” church a few years ago (long story) and our new journey has begun! I honestly used to believe that my church pastor was responsible for “feeding” us God’s word. It came to our attention that Y-H Himself states in scripture that He will teach us. That led to some serious prayer and thought and lo and behold–it is TRUE!! I love the rhetorical (at least for me) question–is anything to hard for Y-H? NO WAY!!
There is much comfort and peace in obedience to Y-H in a world filled to the brim with fear and chaos. I talk to a lot of people all over the place and that underlying fear is prevalent I’m sorry to say. We are farmers and much given to keeping things simple such as growing food and appreciating the things Y-H gives us (which by the way is what we need, not necessarily what we want!). We have gladly parted with many “things” we though we needed at one time. I LOVE simple which is why Greek annoys me terribly!! lol
I personally think the words of Amos (8:11) are presently alive and well. There is a famine at least here in the US (not sure where you are located) and I suspect worldwide.
I am curious to see your answer to Skip regarding the Trinitarian construction.
I am not really confused as to that issue anymore. I know whom I have believed.
I look forward to learning more from all here. Great site methinks!
Nice to meet you too, Dawn. No, even though we read in scriptures, “lovest thou me? Feed my sheep” and this is the “job description” of a pastor, who wants to eat a good meal only once a week? We have God’s own instructions for each of us “study to show yourselves approved unto God.”
Every once in awhile, (that is if we take the time to listen intently!) we will hear something that “sticks!” and one thing that found its mark in me was this statement by our LORD: “you (Carl) do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.” Yes, we “all” (and each) need to starting taking God’s own words as our own. There is no “private interpretation” of scripture- tHis Book applies to all who draw breath- and that (btw) includes “both” Jew and Gentile- “sinners all.”
We are (absolutely) meant to live in community. Here is a marked difference between Jewish and Gentile thought, for the Greeks may say -“what’s in it for me” as the Hebrew mind (which btw is the mind of Christ, -a Jew), would say “how may I serve you?”- or how will this benefit, aid or uplift my brothers and sisters who are *in Christ?*
This is the key: *in Christ.* I’ll cut to the quick (quickly) and ask any who may be reading this: Are you *in Christ?* And your ready answer is? (yes or no)
If no, or not- why not? What hinders you? Do it, and do it now!- for to be *in Christ* as the young people might say is “where it’s at!” There is new life and abundant life *in Christ!* Btw, Mr. Greek thinker “what’s in this for you?” Find out what it means to be *in Christ* and the long, long list will begin as a scroll to unfurl.
There are no “lone ranger” Christians or since this word has now become “offensive” to some, I will allow “followers of the Way!” The disciples/learners/talmudim were first called “Christians” at Antioch. We are all part of a huge family- the family of God. I refer back constantly to the story of the prodigal Father. (it was the Father who was “prodigal” folks, -not the wandering/erring son!) This is the story of “lavish grace!” There are three “characters” in this story, but the central character is not the two quarreling boys (each so worried about their inheritance), but rather the broken heart of the Father wanting so badly for His family to be reunited. And “where” are we (all) to be reunited? One place and one place only- (yep!) *in Christ!*
We must learn (all of us) to live by the Book. This no ordinary book (that’s for sure) or none of us we even come to this site to learn more, (hey!- what’s on t.v.?) but we must all learn and discern what God is communicated to each and to all of us through His inspired (yes, God-breathed) words.
I am thrilled to learn of my “ancient roots” and of God’s faithfulness to deliver His people, but our Bible has (as hopefully we have come to realize) one “hero.” I hesitate here to even use the word for Yeshua HaMashiach is far more than this! (Fasten your seat belts!) Yeshua is YHWH.
Yeshua is the “I AM” in human flesh. Yeshua is God incarnated into human flesh. He (Himself) is the Living Word of God. The written word of God reveals the living Word of God. God (Elohim) is a plurality in unity. Not three Gods- One. Three in One-One in Three. Not to worry- I (too) am confused.
It is God’s own words that gives me clarity and calm. “I and the Father are One.” God was *in Christ* reconciling the world unto Himself. A virgin shall conceive and bear a Son. Has anyone else been born of a virgin? Not that I can recall, but this Man was. And never a man (any man) spoke like this Man. Why? Because this man is not only a man, but He is far, far more. And God has given unto Him a Name that is above every name, that at the Name of Jesus, every knee should bow, “both” in Heaven and in Earth. “Every knee” includes the two owned by this man, (me).
“Baruch” in Hebrew is an interesting word. (thank you Skip!) It means “both” blessing and “bow the knee.” God has promised in His own words- “Ask, and you will receive,” Seek and you will find. Knock and it shall be opened (revealed) unto you. I don’t want to be considered a “super saint” (what is a saint other than a saved sinner?), but I do love to pray!
Those of Jewish upbringing or education, help me out, (please)- what is considered to be the opposite of the ‘yetser hara’? (Stupid question of the year award?) Is God pleased with us when we pray? And isn’t it wonderful? Yeshua (The Teacher Himself) instructed: ~ When you pray, say- “Our Father…” (ABBA Father!).
Y-H says He is One-yes? Does He ever say that He is really three or does one mean one?
If you have a cluster of grapes then you have one cluster of grapes. There is more than one grape but you still have One cluster. One still means one.
Just questions and thoughts. I try to leave attitude at the door and am not looking for argument but reasoning with a brother. Iron sharpens iron eh?? 🙂
May I try again?
1. If there were more than one God, the universe would be in disorder because of multiple creators and authorities, but it is not in disorder; therefore, there is only one God.
2. Since God is a completely perfect being, there cannot be a second God, for they would have to differ in some way, and to differ from complete perfection is to be less than perfect and not be God.
3. Since God is infinite in His existence, He cannot have parts (for parts cannot be added to reach infinity). If God’s existence is not just a part of Him (which it is for all things which can have existence or not), then He must have infinite existence. Therefore, there cannot be two infinite beings, for one would have to differ from the other.
4. God is not a cluster of grapes, an egg with shell, white and yoke, nor water; liquid, vapor, solid. We don’t want to get into heresy with our childishness.
The Father is my Creator. The Son is my Savior. The Spirit is my Comforter.
The Bible tells me so.
Actually, Christian theology tells you so. You won’t find any of the concepts that you propose in the biblical text because the text is not a systematic theology book. That does not mean that what you say isn’t true. I believe it is, for good reasons. But you must be clear that these are conclusions draw from the text, not precisely what the text says. And thus, the debate.
Here is an artist presentation of “Yeshua is YHWH” !
http://www.bigrigtravels.com/FamilyGuestPhotography/Simple-hymns-short-versions/29023783_LshmK5#!i=2496449441&k=2HTCMQf&lb=1&s=A
Interesting TW….in our SS class we are currently looking into Calvinism and Church History…seems like Calvin based his T.U.L.I.P. ideas on Augustine’s writings who got much of his thinking from Plato/ Docetism/ Gnosticism…for example- Total Depravity: body is totally evil and UNABLE (vs. unwilling) to submit to God.
I was in the middle of reading the free e-book by David C. Pack, “The Trinity – Is God Three-In-One?” when I read this TW. I would love any thoughts on him or his book from the community. There’s lots of reading at realtruth.org which I haven’t had the time to go through just yet.
Cheers
Derek-
Here’s the link btw: http://rcg.org/books/ttigtio.html