Cause and Effect
You shall let the mother go, but the young you may take for yourself, that it may go well with you, and that you may live long. Deuteronomy 22:7 ESV
Live long – What is the relationship between sparing the life of a mother bird and how long I live? The Torah tells me that there is a connection. It says that if I spare the life of the mother, but not necessarily the chicks, my life will be blessed and I will live longer. But how can this be true? What difference does it make to my life if I let the mother bird go free but take the chicks? I could imagine a Torah mitzvot that requires me to show compassion on all the lives of these birds, but why be selective? What causal relationship exists between this particular act and the length of my days?
The answer is, “None!” At least none that we could ever determine from our view of causality. In the natural world there is no relationship between selective compassion (is it even compassion?) and living longer. But the Bible is not interested in natural causality because natural causality does not include the sovereignty of God.
The Bible is not a story about the natural results of our choices. Those results are (sometimes) included in the story, but the Bible does not exhort us to act according to these natural causal connections. Natural causal connections may determine my behavior choices (for example, natural causal connections motivate me not to jump off of high buildings) but from the biblical perspective these natural causal connections are not sufficient to change my ethics. The reason that I choose to do what I do according to the biblical point of view is because of what God connects, not what I connect. In this verse, God connects my act of obedience (compassion) with long life. As far as the world is concerned, there is no connection, but that doesn’t matter in the biblical worldview. Since God is sovereign, what matters is what He does with my actions. And He tells me that letting the mother bird go increases the length of my life. I act solely on the basis of what He does with my choices, not on what relationships I can discover.
In the end, biblical ethics is not rational, that is, it does not depend on natural rational explanations of reward and punishment. Biblical ethics is rational only as long as the character of divinity is part of the equation. Without God, ethics is a hope in reason alone, and as the history of rational ethics demonstrates, that hope is extremely frail at best. We might be able to explain the actions of men according to natural causality, but what we generally end up doing is explaining why they acted in “inhuman” ways. An explanation is not a motivation for what is right and just and what is right and just has no basis except social convention unless God’s view is added.
What does this mean for those of us who ascribe to the biblical way of life? It means that we act according to His instructions regardless of the apparent lack of natural causal connections. We do what He says because He says it. By the way, this is precisely why we cannot remove Torah from living. Torah is what God says. To think that we can act ethically without His instructions is to opt for an ethics based on our natural rational reconstructions. It is utter foolishness. If your ethics is not based on the complete revelation of what God says, you risk trying to justify what you do according to your assessment of natural causes. And the biblical worldview calls that idolatry.
Topical Index: ethics, causality, Torah, live long, ha-arakta yamin, Deuteronomy 22:7
Loved Today’s Word! This brings home “because I say so”…just plain obedience. Children always want a reason before they obey…this is how I taught my children and they have benefited from it but their children resist and will not receive the benefits.
Ruth wrote: This brings home “because I say so”…just plain obedience. Children always want a reason before they obey…this is how I taught my children and they have benefited from it
I COMPLETELY disagree with you, Ruth. HUMANS and their rationale for ordering others to do things are WAY FAR from God’s way of doing things. Many many many a child has been abused at the hands of adults flippantly commanding to “do it because I said so.”
Obeying God can be, IN MANY INSTANCES, direct disobedience to human authority. God doesn’t call us to check out brains out at the door.
You might want to be careful about your last statement. While I do NOT check out my brain when I interact with God, that does not mean that God conforms to my version of what is rational. The idea that I need, require or even expect God to explain Himself prior to my obedience is a function of the Greek mind, not the Middle-Eastern Hebraic mind. The paradigm is interfering with your exegesis. Can you think of instances where God commanded action in spite of seemingly irrational consequences? I can think of plenty! Maybe you want to modify your claim based on biblical precedents. That doesn’t justify abuse of children, but last time I looked, God doesn’t modify His expectations based on human abuse of His methods.
We do what He says because He says it. By the way, this is precisely why we cannot remove Torah from living. Torah is what God says. To think that we can act ethically without His instructions is to opt for an ethics based on our natural rational reconstructions. It is utter foolishness.
A little bird example is easy and floofy.
Let’s try a harder one.
If we really follow the commands because He said it, then have you written a TW on killing both homosexuals, Lev. 20:13 and disobedient children? Deut. 21:18-21
Just so you know, I do not approve of, nor condone either of these sins, nor do I condone, nor approve of killing them.
“Just so you know, I do not approve of, nor condone either of these sins, nor do I condone, nor approve of killing them.”
Putting this in perspective Dorothy I would think that if they lived knowing that these sins carried a penalty of death then it would cause them to reconsider their actions/lifestyle and there would be far less of it happening. Perhaps this is the intent, sadly I would conclude in saying that if these go unchecked (Presenting the will of the Lord to them) then it would ultimately end up in their death and eternal separation from a Holy God. We live in lands where the law of the land will not permit these actions and put in the context of an eternal life with our Lord then we need to be fearful for them. this should stir us to action, but which action?
“Putting this in perspective Dorothy I would think that if they lived knowing that these sins carried a penalty of death then it would cause them to reconsider their actions/lifestyle and there would be far less of it happening.”
Hi Ross,
I think “the oldest profession” and homosexual sex will probably always be part of society
Or at least until the Kingdom comes
In any case, killing a person for committing adultery seems a bit extreme to me for today’s world
Regarding the killing of disobedient children, which were probably mostly boys
They were probably perceived as a threat to the existence of the tribe that could not be tolerated
If you have ever watched the program called Lock Up (I think)
Where all these psychotic killers are housed in very expensive high tech facilities
As a society, we might come to the point where we decide we cannot afford
To pay for these people any longer
Deuteronomy 21:18-21
New International Version (NIV)
A Rebellious Son
18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, “This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.
Yes, that is Torah. But think about it: do you really think there have ever been parents that brought their son to the gate to be stoned? I think not. Sodom and Gomorra have been repeted over and over again in history, but these cities were destroyed as an example, a warning to all of humanity. Not as an example to be repeted every generation. But as an example of how God will judge at the end. At this moment He is still slow to anger. But not in future.
One man was stoned for collecting firewood on sabbath. Nowadays you could stone the majority of Tel Aviv for not keeping sabbath. But only this one man was stoned as an example – as far as I know.
do you really think there have ever been parents that brought their son to the gate to be stoned?
Hi Kees,
I do remember an incident that was discussed by Rabbi Gorelik
Where a child was brought before a council of elders for rebellious behavior
And the decision made was death by stoning
But what we might not realize is that a group of wise trusted leaders made the decision
And it was not made in a mechanical mode of analysis devoid of spirit and intellect
Rather the incident had a specific historical, social, and spiritual context
And the question was ultimately what is best for the community?
In my view, what Skip calls the Hebrew worldview is a Dialectical Mode of being
And what Skip calls the Greek worldview is an analytical mode of being
The former is dynamic (thesis, antithesis, synthesis)
The latter is static (either/or)
To oversimplify, we live in a world where if you are a Democrat the Republican is bad
And if you are a Republican the Democrat is bad
And very few of our leaders are considered wise and trustworthy
So the ancient Hebrew world looks very alien to us
By the time we get to Yeshua, we see Hebrew leaders collaborating
With the corrupt Roman Empire
Yeshua now represents the ethical Hebrew leadership
In my view, the Prince of Peace is a revolutionary leader
Who stands up against the corruption in his society
Jewish thought on this passage is that no child was actually ever stoned — the point of Torah is that it describes the maximum punishment and it is meant to deter behavior that will lead a person away from righteousness. It doesn’t mean that the commandment was not tempered with cries for mercy. Remember the adulterous woman who was brought to Yeshua by the Pharisees for judgment? No one claimed Yeshua violated Torah that day because no stones were cast.
The continued presence of sin in the world doesn’t mean that righteousness doesn’t work.
Yes Michael, I understand and I agree.
“To oversimplify, we live in a world where if you are a Democrat the Republican is bad
And if you are a Republican the Democrat is bad”
To be honoust that is very strange for me as European. We constantly need to come to an agreement between parties, because after election you need three or even four parties to get a majority. Society is so terribly divided in Holland, that we MUST find concensus to keep the community going. Since the latest elections christian parties have become a small minority, where they were in power for many, many years. So we see decline of values, at least christian values in rapid pace. But not as fast as in the ´christian´ USA! I read this week that a pastor in Arizona has been arrested for having a biblestudy in his home! Incredible. That´s what we heard about the USSR some decades ago! And now in the land of the free? I’ll pray for you guys!
Yes these two are tough, but obviously God approves of the removal of homosexuals and rebellious children from the camp and he does not have to have my permission.
Both rebel against God (the command to be fruitful, multiply and fill the earth – something homosexuals cannot do ) and notice in all the stories what happened whenever someone rebelled against God or was disobedient – Btw my 2 homosexual friends have been together for 13 years and my son is 18 – so this is not easy for me to say.
Most important in those days was to keep the camp T’hor and K’dosh – clean and holy – for God could only dwells in Holiness – this then also the job of the Priests and Levites and the reason why they were armed. Also note that many of the Torah commands are about keeping the camp holy and obedience.
How holy(set apart for God) does your street, neighborhood, town or country look around you? And the ground you are standing on? For sexual sins also profane the ground – thus the reason for the flood and removal of Sodom.
And just like the rebellious child: my disobedience to God also leads to death – thats why I think obedience to God is the most important and first lesson to learn in life( what does God demand of me) and something I might have learned a bit faster if I knew what happens to a disobedient, rebellious( not the same as disobedient) child. And of course legend says this punishment has never been executed in the history of Israel –
And every time I have to decide to actually believe what God says is good, even though I dont understand it, I go back to His promise: “..I have presented you with life and death, the blessing and the curse. Choose life so that you may live, you and your descendants, loving Adonai your God, paying attentions to what He says(Shema) and cling to Him – for that is the purpose of your life! Deut. 30: 19,20 – whatever God defines as good is good and is life.
Maybe we need more context, as you suggest. Homosexuality is considered an abomination. So is eating pork. So why are we so quick to defend “sexual preference” and not defend dietary requirement? Could it be that our culture is really the 21st Century version of Rome?
But you have extended the intention of the commandment beyond its context. There is NO example of a disobedient child ever being killed under this commandment because the commandment doesn’t say what you think it says. Try the context to see its impact. The issue with homosexual behavior is similar, but not exact. We are not talking about instances of disobedience or homosexuality. We are talking about a deliberate and sustained choice to pursue these behaviors in spite of knowing what God teaches to the contrary, and even then, the optimal response is forgiveness, not punishment. The point is the TOLERANCE without consequence diminishes God’s instruction and therefore His honor. Your suggestion exaggerates beyond the point and therefore misses the point.
Ruth, I completely agree with you… There are many things that a child (even a teenager) wants to do that will bring them harm or put them in danger. While their limited life experience and/or knowledge of God’s commandments may still be lacking, our “wisdom” in this area is not. Because of their “lack” in this area, an “explanation” goes right over their head so to speak. Therefore, “because I say so” is absolutely appropriate! If I love my child, I will lay down guidelines or rules to protect them, not abuse them. Ideally, my “rules” will mirror God’s “rules” or commandments.
An obedient child realizes that I have their best interest at heart. Even if they don’t understand the “rule”, they obey because they believe I desire to prosper their life. (They know I love them) This is the picture of God’s commandments in our lives. We intellectually may not “get it” —– our current mindset may not understand “why” obeying this “law” will benefit our lives. When we obey because we trust that the Creator of the Universe really is smarter than we are and that His desire is not to abuse or harm us, we have moved from “fear” to “reverence”. We are blessed in this process.
Obeying the Creator of heaven and earth doesn’t require us to check our brains at the door. But it does require us to crucify our flesh! And the flesh (evil inclination) will justify any action and make a myriad of excuses in order to keep getting its way. It will “rack its brains” searching for a loophole to prove it is smarter than the Creator.
Sadly, there are many of YHWH’s commandments that we cannot keep. Here are the main reasons:
1. We do not live in the land of Israel with YHWH as our King.
2. Many laws in Torah require that #1 be true in order to be obedient.
3. There isn’t a functioning priesthood or Temple in the Land of Israel.
Most people that object to YHWH’s holy laws use commandments that fall in one of the 3 above categories to argue. I often wonder what they would do if they found themselves living in a place where all 3 were true. Would they still try to “reason” or “justify” why the King’s laws are unjust (yikes!)?
What if the King required the land to be cleansed of a particular group that refused to obey His decrees? Are YOU more “righteous” or more “merciful” than the King? I’d be careful how I answered that question.
The bottom line is that the KING has given us His decrees in the Torah. Who am I to “judge” His Ways? What is my problem? If they offend me —– who is to blame? Without realizing it, people accuse the LORD (YHWH) when they come against His Word, Law, Torah. I am the problem—- you are the problem —- not the Law. The problem is that we are like little kids (notice we are NEVER referred to as the ADULTS of God), we just don’t want to obey. We, like a thick headed teenager, really think we know better than YHWH.
Wake-up people! Awake O sleeper, from your slumber!
Eventually, most teenagers go from thinking that their parents “don’t know anything — why should I listen to them?” to WOW, my parents really are the wisest people I know. (and they really do love me more than anyone else) All those “rules” they thought were so merciless, stifling, and stupid become like the wisdom of the wisest sages.
I think many are still like those thick headed teenagers. Currently, they just don’t “get it”. They’ll say anything to twist your (and YHWH’s) words to do what they want to do. And others….. well we are realizing that YHWH truly is smarter than we are. And that His wisdom is infinite! His Word —- including those commandments I still “don’t get” —— are AMAZING and they not only protect me, but give me LIFE! I trust Him even if I don’t “understand”.
Instead of coming up with “example scenarios” to prove God’s commandments aren’t “loving” (YIKES!), why don’t we set our energy on having a heart like David and proclaim:
Ps. 119:33-38 Teach me, O LORD, the way of Your statutes, And I shall observe it to the end. (34) Give me understanding, that I may observe Your law (Torah) And keep it with all my heart. (35) Make me walk in the path of Your commandments, For I delight in it. (36) Incline my heart to Your testimonies And not to dishonest gain. (37) Turn away my eyes from looking at vanity, And revive me in Your ways. (38) Establish Your word to Your servant, As that which produces reverence for You.
An excellent reply. Thank you.
K. Gallagher,
Thank you for your beautiful presentation written here.
On a side note, the idea of a child to a teenager and then to an adult is not found in the Tanakh. The Tanakh does command and instruct the children of the redeemed community. The idea of teenager is a modern day phenomenon and nothing like what we see throughout the cultural history of the world. The Biblical model seems to portray from child to an adult.
Agreed Brian! Just trying to use an analogy that most people in our sad sick culture can relate with. And yes, I also can only find from child to adult in Scripture —– seems to me that adulthood is about 20 years old and upward, not 18 like our culture.
Again, an example of understanding the culture of the AUDIENCE rather than letting our culture determine what we understand.
Cause and effect. We WILL reap, anyone will reap, “what they sow!” This is the (very) natural law of the harvest. Apple trees come from apple seeds not orange seeds. What “goes around” (what we sow) we Will reap! Compassion (chesed) is built-in to the very fabric of the organic universe. A lioness will show compassion upon her cubs, and just you go ahead and try to step between a mother bear and her cubs! Compassion is quite “natural.’ So, – what happened? Where have we gone astray? Where have we (both as individuals and as society as a whole) gone wrong?
Two words. (only two this time..) Sin and self. Iniquity and seflishness. Compassion, or entering into the Passion (or suffering) of another is a learned behavior. We do not come by it “naturally” because “naturally” we are very selfish and very self-centered creatures.
One of the very first words I learned as a child, (other than McDonald’s!) was “mine!” Momma and daddy had to teach me to share my toys- even with my own brothers and sisters! Surely, (Shirley) I never was a “selfish little brat!”- And how many of these “selfish little brats” grow up to be “selfish little men..” – After all.. “it’s all about “Me” now, isn’t it? EGO, (little man..) is Edge God Out.
~ Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up to vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet. …~
Friends, “perversion” is far from natural. Isaiah had some wise words of his own for these who practice such things: ~ What sorrow for those who say that evil is good and good is evil, that dark is light and light is dark, that bitter is sweet and sweet is bitter ~ (Isaiah 5.20)
~ Remember Lot, and remember Lot’s wife ~
~ And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them ~
I would say “having a death-wish” is not natural..- at all, – in any culture or among any people. No, “choose life!” Choose to follow Him, the ONE who has revealed Himself to be the Light and LORD of (all) life.
Well, of course, I was ‘tongue-n-cheek’ about the two TWs I asked about. I knew they didn’t exist.
I was not coming up with example scenarios to prove God’s commandments aren’t loving.
I am more certain that God is loving than I am of my own name.
I was again contrasting the Gospel with the law. The law showed men they were guilty of sin. This brought the condemnation of death. The law was not bad, — people were bad.
If you are going to obey them, why don’t you obey them all ? was my point.
We can’t only obey the easy ones that we like–like not killing a mother bird, or saying no to pork.
Those other laws written were God’s Words and God’s view as well.
You cannot break a plate just a little bit. Its either broken or its not.
God did not want all men lost, so He offered the Gospel, He came Himself and walked this dusty earth with bare naked feet, with skin on them, like yours and mine. Then He walked up Calvary’s hill and paid the debt we could not pay, and opened the only way to salvation.
We are not obligated to stone homosexuals, disobedient children, and adulterers because we’re no longer underneath the Old Testament covenantal system. He has made a New Covenant. Heb. 8:13
We are not to be violent to anyone now, we are to be kind to them -2 Tim. 2:24-25- and show them love -1 Cor. 16:14; 2 Cor. 5:14. Skip, when you used these words in reply, I applauded! I did!
But, I cannot end without pointing out that the moral condemnation of immorality still stands — as is clearly taught in 1 Cor. 6:9-10 and Rom. 1:26-28.
Your question was wonderful as it was.
Why don’t we carry out what we find the MOST extreme in God’s law?! I used to be very bothered by this question – because I felt it was disingenuous. Why use an extreme example of Torah law that no-one is seriously suggesting – to argue against other easily-followed and non-violent Torah regulations? There is a fallacy in there somewhere. HOWEVER!…. we SHOULD still look and seriously ask, “Why not?!”.
God endorsed to stoning of the Sabbath-breaker! Now,.. we can talk about New Covenant all we want – but still, how harsh was that?! So let’s consider: What about all those of the children of Israel that had broken the Sabbath earlier – in regards to collecting manna? This tells us that the Sabbath breaker’s offense was MORE than the simple act of picking up sticks.
We must consider where Israel was in it’s history. [Desert boot-camp, mutiny on the high seas]
We must consider the sin of obstinacy. [I’m gonna do what I want!! I dare you to stop me!]
We must consider that it was NOT illegal to emigrate from Israel.
Now we see a different picture. We see a person who has demanded to be a part of God’s people – without submitting to His ways. We see someone who knows better, but is testing God. “What’re you going to do about it?!?!?!”.
So what do we glean from this nowadays?
1. Certain behaviors are incompatible with being “His people”.
2. Certain laws were to be enforced strictly, when,…. the laws/punishment were read to the people regularly, the people had agreed to them [in various places “we will do all that the LORD has commanded”], when there was a legal system in place based on Torah, ect , ect.
3. The surrounding context is such that it would be very UNbiblical, to go out and stone a homosexual, ect.
“Biblical ethics is rational only as long as the character of divinity is part of the equation.”
“If your ethics is not based on the complete revelation of what God says, you risk trying to justify what you do according to your assessment of natural causes.”
An example of this, based on our compassion but outside of YHWH’s instructions for living responsibly-
we were at a cafe, and in came this filthy smelly guy to our table, asking for money. I told him to go away and beckoned the staff that he was annoying us. He was told to leave, and he did,but a non-believing friend was very unhappy that we did that. He challenged us that aren’t we to be kind and charitable? I replied that the Bible said those who don’t work, don’t eat, as he was perfectly able to seek work. The manager of the cafe came to us, apologizing that this guy is on drugs, so wise we did not give to him.
“We do what He says because He says it.”
Reminds me of king Saul who kept king Agag alive; and the choice sheep and cattle as sacrifice to YHWH against YHWH’s command not to spare any, and Samuel was sent to rebuke him saying that to obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed the fat of rams, and rebellion is as the transgression of divination, and stubbornness is as wickedness and idolatry, for rejecting the Word of YHWH, thus king Saul lost sovereignty.
So, connecting with YHWH in obedience is a much better choice.
I wish my pupils could see this when we discuss ethics.
Skip
My husband Haile, wants to know why we don’t have to keep all the commandments and what is meant by ‘the excuse’ as he puts it that there is no temple and we are not in Israel. I have tried to explain as I understand it but he wants a more comprehensive answer … He is new to walking fully in Torah so he wants more understanding. He very much concurred with K Galleger above but his three points re temple/Israel caused him to ask why and what does he mean..
Thanks
Christine
Long answer made short. THere are literally dozens of TWs on this subject on the web site. Start there. Then read the 613 and ask “What conditions are necessary for the fulfillment of this commandment?” Your husband is probably not from the tribe of Levi, therefore none of the commands for the Levites apply to him. The same logic holds true for all the other commandments. Some can only be fulfilled in the land. Some are only for women. Some require (presuppose) a priesthood and the Temple. Etc. Why are these conditions in place? I don’t know. It is simply what God commanded. For example, no one from the tribe of Judah can be a high priest on this earth. Therefore, Yeshua cannot be a high priest here and perform the atoning sacrifice here. He is of a different order.
Skip,
Is there a website where we can find the list of the 613?
Sandy
http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm
This site is very helpful
Thanks Ricky!!
Sandy
“EGO, (little man..) is Edge God Out”
I like this… so true and so simple to remember/to repeat to myself day in an day out, especially within interpersonal relationships/conflicts with family.
Thank you for this little gem.
Number one on the list of things God hates (Yes, God hates!) is pride. ~ “Only” by pride comes contention.~ Talk about narrow! One more time and maybe this time someone – somewhere will “lay hold” of this! *only* by pride comes contention.
The next time any of us are involved in conflict of any size, shape or smell (ooh it stinks in here!) remember these words: “only by pride comes contention!”- and then (is it possible?) “humble yourself”- no one but me is going to do it for me and no one but you is going to do this for you.
What was the original sin of satan? Pride. What brought Nebuchadnezzar down? Pride. What destroys marriages? Pride. What destroys nations? Pride. – Shall we continue?- there’s plenty more..
Who was most humble man ever to have lived? Who humbled Himself and gave His back to the smiters? Who now spits in the face of God? Who is willing to drive the nails into His hands? or betray Him for thirty pieces of silver? Who is willing to take the towel He Himself is wearing and wash the feet of His disciples? – Why am I not praying?