The Hideout
Be merciful to me, O God, be merciful to me, for in you my soul takes refuge; in the shadow of your wings I will take refuge, till the storms of destruction pass by. Psalm 57:1 ESV (57:2 in Hebrew text).
Takes refuge – If it were only true of us, how different our world would be. I so want to speak these words of David. I so want to find refuge in Him. But I so often feel like the Jews confronting Babylon. “Let us lie down in our shame, and let our dishonor cover us. For we have sinned against the LORD our God, we and our fathers, from our youth even unto this day. . .” (Jeremiah 3:25). I need refuge, but my whole history and the history of my people rebels against my need. Who would dare forgive one of such insolence, such arrogance, such willful disobedience? “Against You and You only have I sinned” says the same poet a few years later. My shame is so great that I cannot find forgiveness anywhere on earth.
That’s why it must come from heaven.
Yeshua’s parable of the two lost sons, one a prodigal, the other a legalist, is a plea for us to remember that “a son should never be ashamed of retuning to his father.”[1] In this sense, the very idea of repentance is about returning home. You and I may be hiding from the outward enemy in the cave with David, but the real enemy is next to us in the dark, reminding us that we don’t deserve anything but this torment. Who are we to ask God for help? We are those who ignored Him, who slandered Him, who claimed His fellowship and then trod on His name. When did we last say, “Hear, O Israel,” and put into action the obedience demanded by that reminder?
If only I could find refuge in Him. If only. The Hebrew verb (hasa) paints the picture of suddenly discovering that the fence is supported, that the inner room has changed. To take refuge is to realize that something is holding me up, that something has altered my inner state of being. I don’t expect a blaze of glory like Elijah witnessed on Mt. Carmel. I’m not looking for the parting of the sea. But what I hope to find is light in the dark, a way out, a fresh breeze in the dank air, the touch of a friend, the whisper of companionship. When my world collapses into a hole in the ground, I need a God whom I can feel.
When I was a teenager, I visited Lava River Caves Park. After walking about a mile in the cave, the guide had us all stop and shut off the lanterns. It was pitch-black. You couldn’t see your hand even an inch from your face. When my sin covers me in the thick darkness, in the pitch-black reality of my unworthiness, I need a God I can feel because I cannot see Him anywhere I look. The compassion of God will not allow Him to break His relationship with me even in my most serious transgression. I am the one who stays in the cave. God is the One who wants to lead me out.
Topical Index: hasa, take refuge, Psalm 57:1, repentance
Light is that which reveals.
~ When Jesus spoke again to the people, He said, “I am the Light of the world. Whoever follows Me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life” ~ (John 8.12)
~ and the Light shines in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not ~ (John 1.5)
The whole world was lost in the darkness of sin;
The Light of the world is Jesus;
Like sunshine at noonday His glory shone in,
The Light of the world is Jesus.
Come to the Light, ’tis shining for thee;
Sweetly the Light has dawned upon me;
Once I was blind, but now I can see;
The Light of the world is Jesus.
No darkness have we who in Jesus abide,
The Light of the world is Jesus;
We walk in the Light when we follow our Guide,
The Light of the world is Jesus.
Ye dwellers in darkness with sin-blinded eyes,
The Light of the world is Jesus;
Go, wash at his bidding, and light will arise,
The Light of the world is Jesus.
No need of the sunlight in Heaven, we’re told,
The Light of the world is Jesus;
The Lamb is the Light in the City of Gold,
The Light of the world is Jesus.
Come to the Light, ’tis shining for thee;
Sweetly the Light has dawned upon me;
Once I was blind, but now I can see;
The Light of the world is Jesus.
Light always overcomes darkness. The darker the cave, the brighter the light.
Salt and Light
~ You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot. You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in Heaven ~
~ The path of the righteous is like the morning sun, shining ever brighter till the full light of day ~
~The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death Light is sprung up ~
~ A Light for revelation to the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel ~
~ Arise, shine, for your Light has come, and the glory of the LORD rises upon you ~ Isaiah 60:1
~ to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to Light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me ~ (Acts 26.18)
~But if we walk in the Light, as He is in the Light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin ~ (1 John 1.7)
Darkness conceals. Light reveals.
Come to the Light, ’tis shining for thee;
Sweetly the Light has dawned upon me;
Once I was blind, but now I can see;
The Light of the world is Jesus.
The Light of the Gospel
~ Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not; but have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine to them. For we proclaim not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the LORD; and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake. For God, who commanded the Light to shine out of darkness, has shined in our hearts, to give the Light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWeb79W8EqQ
thanks, Carl.
unknown to you, you have selected the video to be played in some mighty interesting places tomorrow!
To name a few…the tattered apartment of a drinking man in Dresden, the beach home of a lady in New Zealand, the hut of a man gathering Scientific data at the South Pole, in all possibly hit some 127 countries!
ha ha ha…this is one of those “someday” things for you to find out!
And, of course, all that Skip’s blog reaches, which is VAST!
What comfort this reminder is, Skip. Thank you.
For a few days I have been holding off the nagging of anxiety forces, knowing My Refuge, My Strength, My Hope, My Vindication, My Rescuerer is ever present.
From all current appearances, I made a mistake that will cost a client ±$1000; they can get it but not without hardship. Monday I meet with them.
It may have been at their instruction, it doesn’t matter; they pay me to insist on being correct and it appears I didn’t know what was correct. (who can recall what they did in detail 2 years ago when it’s one of many very similar decisions?)
I can make excuses all day long but the bottom line for me is to find and stay in a place of humility so My Lord can bail me out. No, I don’t mean avoid consequences, I mean so HE can show me the good HE intends from the evil I fell into. I count on Him to make every detail of every circumstance, every breath I take, work for my good and His glory which in turn has to be exciting. And that includes much good for this client HE has permitted me to serve.
There I am, in such bitter need of forgiveness… Where can I go, where take refuge? I can go to my room, kneel. But that’s not good enough. I must be deeper, like in that hole in the ground. How to do this?
I’ve got a Jewish friend, who believes in the Messiah. He bought me a tallit, a prayershawl. Whenever I need to really, really repent, I take refuge in this tallit. It covers me when I am down on the ground. The corners of this tallit have tsitsiot, threads which remind us of His commandments. These corners are called ‘wings’, kenafim. It is there I find my cave, in my ‘tent’, where His wings cover me, protect me, remind me. It is there, completely apart from the world, that I cry my bitter tears of repentence, until I feel His gentle touch, telling me: I am here! Do not despair! Trust me! You are forgiven, you can enter into My presence once again… Than the tears of regret change into tears of joy, holy joy, that takes away my pain, my regret, my guilt.
Never before I had this experience of true repentence, not even when praying for forgiveness on my knees. And I can tell you: I’ve always taken sin serious. Here are His wings, here is His refuge, in His tent, a fysical reminder of Him.
I don’t grant any mystical power to it, but the fysical presence of His wings, the reminders of His commandments and the blood of Messiah (the blue thread in each corner) is so strong, that it changes my mind whenever I take refuge under His wings.
You should try it!
Skip, this is how I learned to feel it.
Thanks for that, Kees. I’ve got some tzitzit for lesson purposes. I am very visual, so I think I might get a tallit also. Not for teaching purposes but for refuge purposes as you illustrated. I’m so in need of that so often.
Years ago I probably would have placed this idea in the category of legalism. Doing something to try and ‘earn’ something in regards to my salvation. Not so now. I see many of the so called ‘legalistic’ things the Hebrews engaged in as aids, tools, and methods to assist us in the weaknesses we portray with our failings. There is real practicality and power in some of this stuff. I’m sure if my society understood what tzitzit were and what they stood for, that if I wore them in a public that realized what I was professing by wearing them, that my behavior would be vastly different many times. Admittedly, it would be difficult to play the hypocrite openly wearing something like tzitzit knowing that people would be looking at me and wondering why my behavior contradicts the statement my attire represents.
I think we’ve been locked in to thinking ‘working out my salvation’ is something completely different than what it was originally communicated. Doing is something completely further than simply cognitive affirmation. Night and day different.
Again, thanks for the living example.
We all glean something different from each daily posting, and it is fun (for me) to see what bubbles forth from each person.
Today I was led to nail down shadow. (smiling)
SHADE; SHADOW; SHADOWING
Any obscuration of the light and heat with the form of the intervening object, obscurely projected, constantly changing and passing away.
“Shadow” is used literally of a roof (Gen. 19:8), of mountains (Jud. 9:36), of trees (Jud. 9:15), of wings (Ps. 17:8,), of a cloud (Isa. 25:5), of a great rock (Isa. 32:2), of a man (Peter, Acts 5:15), of the shadow on the dial (2 Ki. 20:9, etc.), of Jonah’s gourd (4:5).
It is also used figuratively:
(1) of shelter and protection (of man, Gen. 19:8; Songs 2:3 Isa. 16:3; of God, Ps. 36:7; Ps. 91:1 Isa. 4:6)
(2) of anything fleeting or transient, as of the days of man’s earthly life (1 Chron. 29:15; Job 8:9; Ps. 109:23)
(3) with the idea of obscurity or imperfection (Heb. 8:5; Heb. 10:1, Col. 2:17)
A shadow is produced when something comes between you and the source of the light.
Nothing between my soul and my Savior,
So that His blessed face may be seen;
Nothing preventing the least of His favor;
Keep the way clear! Let nothing between.
Only one thing separates man from God and that one thing is? ~ But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden His face from you, so that He will not hear ~
(Isaiah 59.2)
But..
~ If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness ~ (1 John 1.9)
Is your heart right with God,
Washed in the crimson flood,
Cleansed and made holy, humble and lowly,
Right in the sight of God?
Nothing between.
I was thinking along the line of there is no shadow without light, they exist together.
Jesus Christ is unspeakably great and glorious. The glory which He had with His Father “before the world was,” of that we can only meditate and wonder — were the light of a hundred thousand suns in His created universe lit merely from His face?
He wraps Himself in light and stretches out the heavens like a tent….
Because of His gracious light we all come to see ourselves as we really are – wretched, miserable, apart from God; hopeless, helpless, every day getting worse; and then comes light of God in Christ.
For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 2 Cor. 4:6.
The Father of lights (James 1:1) and sent his Son to be the Light of the world (John 8:12), did not shine in our hearts for our sakes only, or that we might hide this light for only ourselves, but that we might reflect it.
Both the creation of light and the dawn of the Gospel light are each meant for the good of all the whole world.
There, now I’ve done light and shadow in one day!
Your poetry is better and appreciated by everyone. 🙂
Hi Dorothy,
One thing I know for sure is that if you are focusing on God in the future (afterlife)
You are lost, because God is in the present (Here and Now)
Why would a loving God create a child destined to be evil and then punish him for it forever… ?
Makes no sense to me
I think it is far more likely to be something like the movie Groundhog Day
Some of us will have to go through more iterations until we get it right
I was just out in the park on a beautiful afternoon with my dog Max (dog = god = love)
Max is so much more loving and and grateful than anybody I know
If we free ourselves of sin, maybe will come back or end up in Heaven as dogs
In any case, I was out there thinking that all I really am is consciousness
Some good some bad
When I die will that consciousness become unconsciousness?
Darkness Darkness be my pillow….
That would be easy, but I doubt
I think it far more likely that we will continue our spiritual growth in some other form
Because if there is a God, we are either consciously connected to Him
Or we are deluding ourselves
My 2 cents 🙂
Hi Michael 🙂
Its been awhile since you and I talked. Say hi to good old boy Max for me.
I didn’t see your post to me for awhile because I don’t get replies directly to my email,
but I browse from time to time. Just so you know why my silence sometimes.
Life goes on around me at about 150 mph, yes, even now, no slowing down yet.
Yes, I do focus on God in the here and now. He is more real to me than anyone else. He is so near that I feel if I suddenly change my mind and stop or turn directions, at times it feels as if I bump into Him. Yes, we have fellowship, He has said He will never, never leave us or forsake us. We have His ear 24-7.
He hears the slightest sigh, He understands completely when there are no words.
You will always be you, Michael. You are a special and unique creation by His own hand. He created you “on purpose” and for a purpose. He always knew everything we would do, yet He didn’t say “bah, nix that idea…”
We are unable to ‘disappoint’ God.
You have the talents you do because He designed them for you. Human beings alone are created in the image of God.
Speaking for myself, I don’t want to go to “dog heaven”. Animals are sweet and sometimes much nicer than some human beings, (ie: Hitler) but they aren’t able to comprehend God, or commune with Him.
Human consciousness is a mystery that has evaded decades of intensive research by neurophysiologists. According to a recent article:
When an organism’s neural pathways grow sufficiently complex, materialists insist, their firings are somehow accompanied by consciousness. But despite decades of effort by philosophers and neurophysiologists, no one has been able to come up with a remotely plausible explanation of how this happens–how the hunk of gray meat in our skull gives rise to private Technicolor experience. One distinguished commentator on the mind-body problem, Daniel Dennett, author of Consciousness Explained, has been driven to declare that there is really no such thing as consciousness–we are all zombies, though we’re unaware of it.
ha ha ha, who hasn’t met a few? ha ha ha. A good prescription for that guy would be to chill and take his dog for a walk on the beach!
Another thing that makes humans unique is personality. According to Joseph LeDoux, a neuroscientist at New York University:
“We have no idea how our brains make us who we are. There is as yet no neuroscience of personality. We have little understanding of how art and history are experienced by the brain. The meltdown of mental life in psychosis is still a mystery. In short, we have yet to come up with a theory that can pull all this together.”
But we humans are the highest creation of God.
It makes sense that He would provide a means by which we could experience Him. This area of the brain might be part of God’s design to make us realize that we are more than just physical creatures. The Bible says that God has given us this knowledge of eternity, possibly involving some sort of “hard-wired” knowledge.
The ability to make moral judgments is also a characteristics that is found only in humans. Even the ‘higher’ apes cannot make moral judgments about the behavior of other animals. As Dr. Jerome Kagan points out, “Not even the cleverest ape could be conditioned to be angry upon seeing one animal steal food from another.”
In addition, only humans experience pride, shame, and guilt. Only humans are capable of certain forms of sin.
It is the ability to make moral judgments that convinces us of our inability to “measure up” to the intended moral standards laid down by God. However, it is the spirit of man that allows us to communicate with God’s Spirit through Jesus Christ so that we can once again be in fellowship with a Holy God and experience the BEST, the ULTIMATE relationship in the universe. Hallowed be His name!
When you are lost in thoughts and feeling a little distant and small, just know that He loves you. God’s love is active in every part of life. Grace covers our sins, assures our
hearts, gives us strength, and leads us toward the maturity that He has planned for
us. When Jesus Christ is our Saviour, –think of the word Saviour– God the Father does not see us with disapproval; He dotes on us.
Skip, thanks for another inspiring post!
Light and darkness are lovely Biblical topics and Yahshua made full use of them to teach. As an aside, it is interesting too that light and darkness fascinated the likes of Albert Einstein!
You quote: “the son should never be ashamed of returning to his father. In this sense, the very idea of repentance is about returning home.”
Its so true that all repentance is ultimately about returning home – coming back and subjecting ourselves to the Father who created us and gave us life. We are all HIS – created from the soil of the earth which He created. He owns us from before we wiggled out of the womb and and He always will. Many in their vanity think they are self starters! (the deluded evolutionists, in particular!) Reality is we are neither self starters nor self finishers. HE is the one who measures our days. Ultimately this life and death, light and darkness are all controlled and administered by the Sovereign Creator. O sure we can reject His call to be a first fruit, but the Scriptures show clearly that He catches up with us later and at that point makes it impossible to resist his “light,” or His Will
I so loved Carl Roberts post today too and I thank him for his link to the song “You put the light in me.” – an excellent point of theology. We all know the “you” is God. Note that HE is the one who is taking action. HE is the one who sent the LIGHT into the world that mankind would know real TRUTH and come to repentance.
Ever wonder why John called the great throne at the final judgment of mankind THE GREAT WHITE THRONE. Here the Greek word for “white” is LEUKOS (Strongs# 3022) It denotes whiteness as found in the whiteness of bright light. This will be the time that the white light of Yahshua’s judgment throne will shine on the final vast pool of humanity and Yahshua will judge them with justice and mercy (not as the world thinks). Read the history of ancient Israel and you will clearly see that all of God’s judgments are corrective in nature. (Did not Paul teach assuredly in Romans that “all Israel would be saved?) So, they will. Anyway, the unrepentant will be cast into the “lake of fire”, the refiner’s fire, not to be cremated or tormented for time without end, but for refinement and correction.
Friends, it’s ALL GOD’S DOING! HE struck down the apostle Paul with a blinding light (see Acts 9) and had him repent of his misguided ways. Now God could have brought Paul around in a million different ways but how interesting that HE used a bright light to do it. The great Paul “saw the light” and repented of the “darkness of his ways’ and the world was changed forever through the mighty work God did through that persecutor of the “body of Messiah.”
It teaches me that there is hope for us all – no matter how terrible our transgressions of Torah. Eventually HE will put the LIGHT in everyone, but “each in his own good time” as Paul taught in 1cor 15
All day I have wished someone else would do this, but I shall not go to bed without writing here because of Ezek. 3: 17-19.
If anyone believes the Bible (I do) there are plenty warnings of hell.
The doctrine of ultimate reconciliation or universalism may be appealing to human sensibilities,
but it is wrong and unbiblical.
Scripture teaches that beyond this life, there are NO second chances.
Instead, the Bible declares, “Today is the day of salvation” 2 Cor. 6:2.
Rob Bell is a false teacher, but love does indeed win for those who turn by faith to Christ in this life and embrace Him as Saviour. Those who don’t and dismiss the concept of hell will find out eternity is an awfully long time to be wrong.
The first doctrine to be denied in Scripture is judgment.
Here it is: Satan saying to Eve, “You surely will not die!” Gen. 3:4.
• “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.” Matt 7:13–14
• “And you, Capernaum, will not be exalted to heaven, will you? You will descend to Hades; for if the miracles had occurred in Sodom which occurred in you, it would have remained to this day” Matt 11:23
• “So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” Matt 13:49–50
• “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel around on sea and land to make one proselyte; and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves” Matt 23:15
• “You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?” Matt 23:33
• “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;” Matt 25:41
• “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life” Matt 25:46
• “If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off; it is better for you to enter life crippled, than, having your two hands, to go into hell, into the unquenchable fire” Mark 9:43
• “But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!” Luke 12:5
• “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him” John 3:36
• “Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.” John 5:28-29
• “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death’” Rev 2:11
Revelation speaks of the 2nd death 3 times, — all speaking of the fate of unbelievers:
• “Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.” R 20:6
• “Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.” R 20:14
• “But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” R 21: 8
Rob Bell is a false teacher on EVERYTHING? He isn’t right about ANYTHING? Is your created box regarding ‘hell’ totally inerrant – incapable of being the slightest bit amiss? Can you explain precisely and exactly what happens when a person dies physically with absolute authority, rigor and exactitude?
It seems your statements are, again, layered with proof texts around presupposed doctrines that aline with denominational creeds you hold to.
Why is Rob Bell a false teacher (a strong and arrogant statement without substantial evidence to validate your claim.)? What makes him a false teacher? Again, I can proof text just about ANYTHING from the Bible.
For example, I could proof text a verse you quoted above, John 5:28-29, and boldly claim that the way to a resurrected life is obtained by doing good deeds, i.e. works! Also, that whoever did an evil deed one second before they died physically, say a certified, justified believer, would receive a resurrection of hellfire judgement. Could I not? Yes, I could by the method of argument that you continue to utilize in making your absolute statements regarding Scripture. It’s like once you make a statement you leave no room for dissension or argument. It’s absolute. No discussion.
Dorothy, this is not an attack and please don’t take it as such. I hope you won’t perceive it as such and then just shut down the line of conversation as you’ve done several times. I’m on your side and any one’s side that seeks Him. It’s just that you make statements as if you are the Pope with absolute jurisdiction and authority. “Rob Bell is a false teacher!” How can you do that? I don’t understand that.
Conversely, saying Rob Bell said something I don’t think is true is more valid, then providing reasoned explanations. I mean who hasn’t said something ‘wrong’ and/or ‘unbiblical?’ I certainly have on many occasions said false things because I either didn’t know or was just wrong in my understanding of the Bible. Have you not?
Frankly, I’ve been in many Sunday School classes where the teachers have stated some ridiculous and very stupid things claiming the Bible teaches such and such. Honestly, they were Scripturally ignorant. For the most part they took a teaching position for whatever reason, read a few (I’m being generous here) weekly devotionals and concocted a class lesson from it. The students were either more ignorant than the teacher or didn’t care to question him, or they simply assumed by virtue of his position, teacher, that he knew what he was talking about. False teacher? Evil instructor? Prophet from hell?
Good questions, eh?
I read Rob Bell’s book, Love Wins. Frankly, at the end I was invigorated in thinking anew regarding many different topics. Love, salvation, hell, truth, etc. I viewed it a lot differently than many of my former Southern Baptist acquaintances. In a way, I saw the book as someone walking up to a lot of people who have been comfortable in their constructed theological boxes and poking them where they are the most insecure. A vast majority of the book was a collection of questions that DARED to question the sacred, sanctified, and approved message that has been advocated in thousands and thousands of denominations. It was a book that played devil’s advocate in many ways. It woke a lot of people up and made them think. I perceive most swatted at the bee that got in there bonnet for a while, went and asked their pastors HOW to think about what Bell wrote, and bought the answer without ever giving it any critical thinking on their own part at all. Then proceeded to paint Rob Bell as all kinds of things, and that’s the end of that. They then crawled back in to their cosy little boxes that were disrupted, finally, by the likes of Rob Bell. Rob Bell is the devil incarnate, period. A new church doctrine and creed to shout from the roof tops.
Heaven forbid that I would write and publish a book that disagrees with the sacred decrees and creeds of so many churches out there. I think a burning stake would be my end.
Anyway, let me reiterate that this isn’t an attack on you. It’s a remark on the manner in which you make statements with apparent infallible authority. You said it, that settles it.
It would be more valuable if you provided some valid reasoning for your statements backed by truths and examples from the Bible rather than just proof texting with a million verses. Quoting Scripture isn’t magical like an spell like ending a prayer with “…in Jesus’ name! It’s power comes from communicating and understanding the truths they innately contain from understanding them being expressed, understood and confirmed in life. I don’t know of any instances where Yeshua simply quoted the Tanakh without some further explanation involved. He stood on the Scriptures and then explained them intricately, delicately and forcefully. And he asked a ton of questions. Kind of like Rob Bell did in his hellstorm of a book. I think Rob might have inadvertently proved the validity of hell by all the hell it created. Poke a stick in to the ‘holy’ creeds and doctrines of many churches today and the gates of hell ARE unleashed.
Anyway… just asking.
Not an attack. Just an inquiry. The possible beginning of a conversation…or not.
Not. . . again.
My greatest concern over your proclamations and doctrinal positions is simply this: unless you know the HISTORY of these ideas, how they originated and who introduced them into Christian thought, you cannot understand or appreciate the fragile construction many of them represent. Nearly all doctrine depends on presuppositions not directly found in biblical material because the Bible is not a systematic theology. It is a story with many kinds of literature and it must be reduced to presupposed boxes in order to construct a theology. Most Christian theology is quite dependent of Plato or Aristotle, not Moses or David. This is why proof texts can so often be read in different ways. It isn’t the “evidence” of the Bible that provides the compelling argument. It is the biblical material pushed into “evidence” boxes. This explanation of the process accounts for the more than 40,000 denominations today.
The typical believer’s alternative to this process of understanding the history of an idea is the dangerous claim that “the Holy Spirit revealed it to me.” As I have mentioned before, such a claim is what I call “spiritual epistemology.” It requires that the speaker have a direct and immediate self-authenticating communication with God. That implies, of course, that there can be no critique of the claim since it came directly from God. But as the history of the Church has clearly demonstrated, nearly all men and women who have made such claims turn out in the long run to be tragically mistaken.
In my view, there is an alternative to either of these attempts. That is to explore, investigate and critique the history of a claim, subject it to rigorous scrutiny and do everything possible to understand the text as the author meant it for the audience that first heard it. If, after all this, we find some application to our own lives, wonderful! If we don’t, at least we won’t make the claim that what the text means TO ME is the true meaning of the text.
I implore you to begin thinking about WHY you believe what you claim to believe and ask yourself WHERE those ideas came from. I can assure you that they did not ORIGINATE in Scripture.
Please, please, p le a s e, give me a direct and straightforward yes or no answer.
Do YOU, Skip Moen, believe there is a hell or not?
I was inclined to say, “Does it really matter what I BELIEVE?” What matters is WHY you believe it.
But then I thought that might be too insensitive. So, yes, I believe in Gehenna, a place of torment. But I have enough sense to note that a great deal of OUR cultural views of hell are the produce of Dante and the Middle Ages, not the Bible.
From Wikipedia
Gehenna (Greek γέεννα), Gehinnom (Rabbinical Hebrew: גהנום/גהנם) and Yiddish Gehinnam, are terms derived from a place outside ancient Jerusalem known in the Hebrew Bible as the Valley of the Son of Hinnom (Hebrew: גֵיא בֶן־הִנֹּם or גיא בן-הינום); one of the two principal valleys surrounding the Old City.
In the Hebrew Bible, the site was initially where apostate Israelites and followers of various Ba’als and Caananite gods, including Moloch, sacrificed their children by fire (2 Chr. 28:3, 33:6). Thereafter it was deemed to be cursed (Jer. 7:31, 19:2-6).[1]
From my recollection of earlier studies:
Since the valley was cursed it became the city dump, where the blood & discarded animal parts drained to along with sewage and other rubbish. It was known as the “lake of fire” as it was a constant methane fueled fire.
Yeshua uses Gehenna as a place of judgment for evil doers and James as the flame source of an evil tongue.
Please, please, p le a s e, give me a direct and straightforward yes or no answer.
Do YOU, Skip Moen, believe that Dorothy “is a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet (you)” or not?
Ha, ha, Ha! At one point or another in my life, everyone fit that description, even my mother.
I just appreciate the fact that there is a place where we aren’t afraid to speak out.
Graciously diplomatic! 🙂
Thank you, Skip, spoken like a true American gentleman living on American soil.
Freedom to speak means something to us born here, especially those of us who have served our country far from home.
Michael Stanley, I take no offense.
I leave out Arnella’s name, for I’d be very surprised if she was part of that.
I thank you for your clear reply !
If you will please answer me only one more, I will not bother you with another.
Is Gehenna eternal, or will it someday terminate?
YES! it definitely matters to me what you believe.
That does not mean I will argue about it either way. I won’t.
To me it is the same as a menu,– if I don’t know a dish is,– I ask what it contains.
I do not try to change its inclusion on the menu or the chefs prep of it, nor the waiters opinion, or any other diner’s opinions, which could vary from delicious to horrible, BUT
it is nonetheless very important to me personally.
I realize this isn’t a very clever comparison/explanation, but I think you might now understand why it DOES matter and why I ask.
So thanks again . . . please as clear as the previous reply
OK, here’s the answer. Frankly, I don’t know. But the specter of eternal punishment is haunting enough, although I do wonder about the moral condition of a God who would do this. That doesn’t mean I question His choice, just don’t understand it very well.
“This will be the time that the white light of Yahshua’s judgment throne will shine on the final vast pool of humanity and Yahshua will judge them with justice and mercy (not as the world thinks). Read the history of ancient Israel and you will clearly see that all of God’s judgments are corrective in nature.”
John- Truly, truly, Amein!
Not many folks have this knowledge that judgement is not to punish but that it is for correction.
To be a judge is to TEACH, correct and guide in the ways of YHWH’s Torah, in the Hebraic sense.
~ Oh, send out Your light and Your truth! Let them lead me; let them bring me to Your holy hill and to Your tabernacle ~ (Psalm 43.3)
~ Your word (dabar) is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path ~ (Psalm 119.105)
“The compassion of God will not allow Him to break His relationship with me even in my most serious transgression. I am the one who stays in the cave. God is the One who wants to lead me out.”
When we are in this situation, it reveals our spirit is really trying to reach YHWH, crying out for His help out of the situation. And this shows too that this person is one of His, knowing Who to call, and run to, though he is in hiding either from his enemies, his fear/s, or the uncertainty of the circumstances.
When we allow uncertainty to creep into our lives, darkness creeps in to bring chaos/confusion, but when we run back to light, order and hope is restored.
Many church-goers out there do not truly know what repentance means, so instead of returning to YHWH, they turn away, running away FROM Him, to ‘hide’ from Him.
If they were grounded in the Tanakh these folks will see what a gracious, loving Elohim Who will bless
us even though we stumble on the path, IF they choose to be blessed to stay on it,not simply looking for joy, peace, love, wealth, and not finding them.
Psalm 37:23
מֵיְהוָה מִֽצְעֲדֵי־גֶבֶר כֹּונָנוּ וְדַרְכֹּו יֶחְפָּֽץ׃
גֶּבֶר gever-
man, strong man, warrior (emphasising strength or ability to fight)
כּוּן kuwn-
1) to be set up, be established, be fixed
a) to be firmly established
b) to be established, be stable, be secure, be enduring
c) to be fixed, be securely determined
2) to be directed aright, be fixed aright, be steadfast (moral sense)
3) to prepare, be ready
IN/From יהוה the steps of a man are ordered: and he delights in His way. Amein!
to delight in, take pleasure in, desire, be pleased with
1) of God
a) to delight in, have pleasure in
b) to be pleased to do
Shalom!
Skip, This question does not follow you article today, but I would be interested in your views on Predestination. I don’t believe it, I would like something from you to share with my friend.
Blessings,
Bob Hale
St Joseph , MO
As this is one of my favorite topics,- here is my (one man’s) (Danger!-Danger!)-“opinion..”
The Sovereignty of God vs. the Free Will of Man
And the answer is? – Yes.
Some would answer- you can’t have it both ways. My answer? Your God is too small. NEVER limit God, and never underestimate the (forgive me for this most impolite word)- the stupidity of man. Stupidity, a.k.a, hard-hearted/hard-headed- thick, dull- lacking in discernment..
I’ll take this straight from the KJV, but any other “version” would work just as well.
~ Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted ~
“ye which are spiritual..” – There are those who are “spiritual” and those who are in need of “restoration..” God, (btw)- specializes in making a message out of a mess! – Praise His Name!
To this he quickly added.. “you cannot give what you ain’t got..” or no one can give that which he or she does not first possess..- “I’d like to help you brother, but I’m broke!”
Does our God know “the end from the beginning?” Yes? No?
May we say (ever), “God, this is all your fault?” Known as “blaming God..”- for our own stupidity and/or “hard-heartedness..” I have found in my own (very) limited travels, most of our problems we bring upon our own heads.. (We have met the enemy,- and he is us!).
Back to the Garden for “exhibit A.” God said “don’t”- Adam said, “I know You said not to.. but here is what “I think..”- and here is what “I” will do.. – “Not YOUR will, but mine be done..”
Houston, we have a problem.. Adam “thinks” he knows better than God.. or that God is “holding out” on him.. (you shall be as gods- knowing good and evil..)
Now concerning this subject of stupidity- What did our “not-so-great” great-grandfather say to himself as he was leaving paradise? “Stupid-stupid-stupid!” Regrets? “I’ve had a few..” That was really “dumb” not to obey God and to live according to His instructions. They were actually for our own protection and good! Good ol’ 20/20 hindsight.. Adam was the first among many (sinners) to follow in his steps.
Who else has “sinned?” Abraham? Yes. Moses? Yes. David? Yes. – May we continue?
Oh, we haven’t even mentioned yet the “discourse” between Adam and Eve!! Woah Nelly Belle! “You did it, no, you did it..” – and the “blame-game” continues until this very day. Millenia later- we are still “blaming God” and “blaming George Bush” or looking for someone (anyone will do) for all of our own.. (ahem..) “stupidity..”
May I? Sin is stupid. We have even (hopefully) seen for ourselves- Sin is a form of insanity.. Sin oftentimes is akin to stabbing yourself in the leg repeatedly. Sin is damaging, debilitating,deforming, distressing- and this “list” could go on for quite some space.. Oh.. BTW.. may I show you my scars? Praise God, I am healed, but sin has left me “scarred..” Mark these two witnesses..- Adam and me. And we are not alone, either- for “all” have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Yes, Billy Graham. Yes, Mother Theresa. Yes, the Pharisee. Yes, Paul. Yes, the plumber, and the painter and Yes, (most of all?) me. Yes, every adam since Adam save ONE adam, the sinless, spotless, saving Lamb of God.
One of the greatest gifts God ever gave to man (man r us) is the ability to choose. We (all) have a choice. We (all) have a “say-so.” God, (in His Sovereignty) allows man to make his own (oftentimes stupid) choices.
Example One: Ever put your hand on a hot surface? – You “want-to” do this again? Burn me once.. ooh, that was a “painful” lesson. Was the pain “sufficient” for you to remember not to do it again?
I remember not listening to my mother when I was a but a “little,”- Carl, don’t touch!- Hot! But I insisted upon having my own way and made my own choice to kiss my reflection in the shiny aluminum coffee pot. Yeoww! – Call me “Hotlips!,” but please, – don’t ask me to try that again!
And how many other times (he inquired) have we been (uhh..) -reminded to remember!
Adam.. “Yes, Eve?” Have you forgotten something? “What..?” “God did say..”- “I know…but..” – Here is what “I” think..
And there is not one among us who does not have “I” trouble. “I” will exalt my throne and “I” will do this and “I” will do that.. There once was an exalted king who became as a beast and ate grass for seven long years- “Remember?”
Same ol’ story- millenia later. Pride vs. humility.. – and the winner is?
Now choose “YOU” this day- whom you will serve.. “self” or the Savior?
Mr. Pride, you just head on down to the carwash and wash yourself on down the drain.. for “He” must increase, and “I” must decrease..
“I” have been crucified with Christ (HalleluYah!)
“I” have been crucified with Christ and “I” no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me ~
Long story short. (it’s about time!)- “NOT I – BUT CHRIST!!”
The Sovereignty of God? Totally.
The Free Will of Man? Love is a choice.
~ Choose you (Adam) this day, Who you will serve- but as for me and my house, – we will serve the LORD ~
Adam, abad ADONAI- always!- Amein!
One man’s “opinion?” Ask Adam. Ask Moses. Ask Abraham. Ask David. Ask Solomon.- ~ We are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses on every side ~ we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed;~
~ No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us ~
Adam, -when did He, the ONE whose Name is Faithful and True, (ever) stop loving us?
And Adam, ~ “whatever He says unto you- do it.” (please).
Hi Carl,
That’s way too complicated for me 🙂
We are free to choose; that’s the bottom line
We are forbidden to choose certain things
It’s that simple IMO
One level of complexity ….
I’m OK and You’re OK
Until one of us chooses
Something that’s not OK
“light in the dark, a way out, a fresh breeze in the dank air”
Hmmm
For me there is a sense that there is a “light in the dark, a way out, a fresh breeze in the dank air”
But there is also a sense that there is no way out
We do feel that way, Michael :-), at times, but, there IS always light at the end of the tunnel.
I have gone through that many a times, and keep reminding myself of the times I have gone such circumstances, that ABBA is aware and watching us going through that situation, coming forth in victory
when we hang on to Him!!
Shalom.