How to Stop a Rumor
“Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;” Acts 21:23 NASB
Do this – If you are still struggling with Paul’s view of the Torah, try reading the story in Acts 21. James’ instructions to Paul should settle the issue once and for all. Let’s recap. When Paul returns to Jerusalem after his third missionary journey, James and all the elders of the Jerusalem assembly greet him. Paul recounts his experiences among the Gentiles and these men glorify God (obviously approving what Paul has accomplished). Then they raise an issue. It seems that a nasty rumor has been circulating in Jerusalem. The rumor is that Paul is teaching “the Jews to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.” In other words, this rumor is precisely what the Christian Church teaches about Paul’s theology for believers in “Jesus.” James wants to dispel this rumor. As proof that Paul is not teaching such atrocities, he asks Paul to pay for and participate in a Nazarite vow taken by four men in the congregation. James reasons that when people witness Paul’s active participation in this vow, they will realize that the rumor is not true and see that Paul is “orderly, keeping the Law.” Paul does exactly this, demonstrating that James’ request is consistent with his beliefs. How can it be any clearer? As David Stern comments, “The authority of Ya’akov stands behind the assertion that Sha’ul was Torah-observant.”[1]
Stern points out that there are only two possible conclusions about this passage. The first is precisely what James wants to establish: that Paul is a Torah-observant Jew and continues to teach Torah-observance. The second is that Paul and James concoct this little drama in order to fool everyone about the truth, that being that Paul actually isn’t Torah-observant but will perform the charade in order to make the Jews in Jerusalem think he is. Which one of these seems reasonable to you? If you have any serious doubts about Paul’s Torah-observant position, read the rest of the story where he is beaten, chained and nearly killed but never changes his claim.
If this demonstration was so convincing that the elders and the head of the Jerusalem followers of the Way considered it proof of Paul’s Torah obedience, then why has the Christian Church taught something else for so long? Why has the Christian Church basically endorsed the very rumor that James attempts to squash? What motivation could the Church possibly have for so distorting this story? It seems to me that there is one explanation that fits this story and the subsequent distortion of the Church. John Gager and Lloyd Gaston (among others) point out that the very identity of the Church rests on its opposition to Jewish thought and there is nothing more opposed to the Jewish way of life than the denial of the authority of Torah. In this regard, Christianity is essentially anti-Semitic. The problem is that Paul wasn’t anti-Semitic. That leaves us with an enormous issue: are we going to continue to follow an anti-Semitic religion or are we going to follow the Way according to James and Paul?
Topical Index: Acts 21:23, Torah, anti-Semitism, Paul, James
Well stated.Paul paid for this nazerite vow himself,this was no small matter.The nazerite vow was very expensive,the sacrafices brought to the temple for this vow cost a small fortune.The vow itself meant a very strict code of conduct in living torah obedients.To suggest Paul was not torah observant is such a big lie.I think it was Yasar Arafat who said that if you tell a very big lie long enough the masses will eventually believe the lie.The church has taken a hold of this lie,and that saddens me.
Brian,
It was a Yahwist preacher who once told me another nugget about deception, important for people who wish to walk in spiritual discernment:
The way the great deceiver works is by mixing lies with truth… people recognize the truth and automatically accept the lies as truth, too.
May we all be graced to discern good from evil and eschew lying spirits!
Shalom,
–Melissa Rawlins
Isn’t that how politicians function as well? 🙂
David Craig pointed out, correctly, that my first statement in the TW was mistaken. The rumor was NOT that Paul was teaching the Gentiles that they did not have to obey Torah. The rumor was that Paul was teaching the JEWS that they did not have to obey Torah. Paul’s action confirms that the rumor is NOT TRUE. Paul never taught that Jews did not have to keep Torah – and in fact, Paul remained Torah observant throughout his life.
But my mistake does not actually change the argument. If Paul remained Torah observant, and confirmed that he did, and this means he did not teach Jews that they could give up Torah after accepting Yeshua as Messiah, then it follows that Torah was EXPECTED for Jews in spite of their acknowledgment of Yeshua and therefore, the claim that Paul revoked Torah is false.
The only remaining issue is if Torah applies to Gentiles. That answer is found in Acts 15. And the answer is YES, after I am grafted into the commonwealth of Israel, I am no longer treated differently than any other citizen of the Kingdom from the perspective of Torah. What applies to me, applies to me. James makes that clear with his comment that all are taught Moses every Sabbath. To suggest that Acts 15 exempts Gentiles who are now in the community from Torah expectation is to claim that God has TWO torahs, one for Jews and one for Gentiles. I reject that view as incompatible with the rest of Paul’s teaching and the instructions of Yeshua.
Dear Skip, if you just keep reading the Acts 21 passage it says:
25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from sexual immorality.”
Other than the one scripture in Acts 15:21, can you point to any other passage after that would seem to encourage Gentiles to take on all of torah?
Blessings
Ron
Getting on an airplane in Johannesburg for 30 hours flight to get home. Can someone else pick this up please now.
Grafted in would be a good place. No Jew or Gentile might be another. Relate this verse (cited) to Act 15 and the requirement to leave idolatry, etc.
Also, what translation are you reading that added “no such thing”? This is not in the Greek text. Without it, this verse merely repeats what was decided in Acts 15
Hi Skip, Here are few thoughts…
1. Re: Gal. 3:28 and Col. 3:11 where it says there is neither Jew nor Gentile. Paul here is referring to the fact that there is no favoritism in the kingdom. You can come boldly into God’s throne room and enjoy grace regardless of race, class, gender, etc. However, it also says there are no males or females and yet I am male and my wife is female. If you take this verse to mean all role distinctions cease, then Paul is in error when he gives specific instructions to women and to men. Furthermore, he says there is no slave or free, but the same Paul tells Onesimus to return to his owner Philemon. Why didn’t Paul say, “You are free in the Messiah.” (to be clear I am not justifying slavery).
In addition, if there are no longer Gentiles in the Messiah why are Gentiles believers referred to as Gentiles in these verses: Acts 11:1, 18, 15:3, 19, 21:19, Rom 1:6, 3:29, 15:9-12, 15:27, Gal. 2:12, Eph. 3:1?
2. As to ‘grafted in’ … Gentiles are grafted into the commonwealth of Israel. Just as someone from Australia is part of the commonwealth of Great Britain, he is still Australian, so a non-Jew who embraces Messiah does not become Jewish or Hebrew but enjoys all the benefits of being a child of God. The Jew is still called to live as a Jew (Rom. 11:29). God is still the God of the nations as John saw in heaven (in the future) men from every nation (Rev. 7).
3. Lastly. the Acts 21 verse makes it clear that the interpretation that Gentiles were being encouraged in Acts 15:21 to go to synagogue is not correct. James says that “[the Gentiles believers] should observe no such thing”.
Have a safe trip!
What Paul was doing here is demonstrating the victory of LOVE that “seeketh not her own” over the narrow-mindedness. Remember Paul saying he can eat the meat offered to idols, its nothing to him, but for the sake of the weaker brother he would abstain. He would not destroy anyone by his knowledge and liberty in Christ. He’d never eat meat again, if necessary, to prevent this from happening. How beautiful, how like his Master!
What love Paul had for the brethren, what a heart for Christ, willing to stoop as low as necessary to not harm the weakest among them.
This must have hurt Paul, –all that money he worked hard to get to sustain himself with while he preached so he could ask nothing, no payment for preaching? But his love for these 4 brothers who were convinced this was the thing to do, he parted with the money.
Have you ever given for a thing you didn’t so much approve of, but you didn’t want to hurt your brother or sister? I have, and I think I know a little of what Paul felt at this point.
Unity within the church Unity within the church Unity within the church (3 point sermon)
Preserving unity, demonstrating the victory of love, seeking not his own way, but seeking to win those under the Law.
Rewriting the text to fit a paradigm doesn’t really help much. This is NOT about “weaker” brothers. This is about what God expects as a member of the community of the Kingdom.
So the “Law of Love” then, since it actually allows me to make my own standard and/or choose which part of the standard (Torah) I keep, then allows one to LIE to appease a brother or win a sinner.
Not only that but in making this statement: “what a heart for Christ, willing to stoop as low as necessary to not harm the weakest among them.”, you even go so far as to say in order to please Christ I must be willing to play the hypocrite.
“How like his Master…….” “How terrible”of a statement to make about our Master to make a point concerning my doctrinal stance. To make Him as One who would deceive for the greater good. That is carrying it a little far IMHO.
What then do we do with this statement: Acts 21:24 “…..That all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are NOTHING, but that YOU YOURSELF also walk orderly and KEEP THE LAW.”
As Skip already said, either I look at this as the council’s decision to deceive everyone, or as an opportunity to prove what is already true.
Oops,
Concerning this sentence: ‘What love Paul had for the brethren, what a heart for Christ, willing to stoop as low as necessary to not harm the weakest among them.’
I see my poor choice of words has caused some to gather that I meant something mean about our brother Paul and my Savior as well, so I definitely MUST re-state.
I now see that “humbled” would have been a much better word to use than “stooped”.
I see that word carries a negative connotation for some.
To me it simply means as an athlete with the ability to flat-out run down a horse, slows down to walk at the pace of a lame man, rather willing to finish with him than outrun him and leave him in the dust.
Or ‘stooping’ (to me) means someone who can stand tall and straight, but chooses to bend himself down in such a way that his hand easily hands low enough for a child to grasp with comfort. Might cause a bit of discomfort to the taller person, but the only thing this “stooping man” considers is the comfort of the other person.
That is why I can say: “HOW LIKE CHRIST” !
The Controversial Christ
The Biblical account: (as it is written)
On to Jerusalem
After we had torn ourselves away from them, we put out to sea and sailed straight to Kos. The next day we went to Rhodes and from there to Patara. We found a ship crossing over to Phoenicia, went on board and set sail. After sighting Cyprus and passing to the south of it, we sailed on to Syria. We landed at Tyre, where our ship was to unload its cargo. We sought out the disciples there and stayed with them seven days. Through the Spirit they urged Paul not to go on to Jerusalem. When it was time to leave, we left and continued on our way. All of them, including wives and children, accompanied us out of the city, and there on the beach we knelt to pray. After saying goodbye to each other, we went aboard the ship, and they returned home.
We continued our voyage from Tyre and landed at Ptolemais, where we greeted the brothers and sisters and stayed with them for a day. Leaving the next day, we reached Caesarea and stayed at the house of Philip the evangelist, one of the Seven. 9He had four unmarried daughters who prophesied.
After we had been there a number of days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. Coming over to us, he took Paul’s belt, tied his own hands and feet with it and said, “The Holy Spirit says, ‘In this way the Jewish leaders in Jerusalem will bind the owner of this belt and will hand him over to the Gentiles.’”
When we heard this, we and the people there pleaded with Paul not to go up to Jerusalem. Then Paul answered, “Why are you weeping and breaking my heart? I am ready not only to be bound, but also to die in Jerusalem for the name of the Lord Jesus.” When he would not be dissuaded, we gave up and said, “The LORD’s will be done.”
After this, we started on our way up to Jerusalem. Some of the disciples from Caesarea accompanied us and brought us to the home of Mnason, where we were to stay. He was a man from Cyprus and one of the early disciples.
Paul’s Arrival at Jerusalem
When we arrived at Jerusalem, the brothers and sisters received us warmly. The next day Paul and the rest of us went to see James, and all the elders were present. Paul greeted them and reported in detail what God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.
When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”
The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them.
Paul Arrested
When the seven days were nearly over, some Jews from the province of Asia saw Paul at the temple. They stirred up the whole crowd and seized him, shouting, “Fellow Israelites, help us! This is the man who teaches everyone everywhere against our people and our law and this place. And besides, he has brought Greeks into the temple and defiled this holy place.” (They had previously seen Trophimus the Ephesian in the city with Paul and assumed that Paul had brought him into the temple.)
The whole city was aroused, and the people came running from all directions. Seizing Paul, they dragged him from the temple, and immediately the gates were shut. While they were trying to kill him, news reached the commander of the Roman troops that the whole city of Jerusalem was in an uproar. He at once took some officers and soldiers and ran down to the crowd. When the rioters saw the commander and his soldiers, they stopped beating Paul.
The commander came up and arrested him and ordered him to be bound with two chains. Then he asked who he was and what he had done. Some in the crowd shouted one thing and some another, and since the commander could not get at the truth because of the uproar, he ordered that Paul be taken into the barracks. When Paul reached the steps, the violence of the mob was so great he had to be carried by the soldiers. The crowd that followed kept shouting, “Get rid of him!”
Paul Speaks to the Crowd
As the soldiers were about to take Paul into the barracks, he asked the commander, “May I say something to you?”
“Do you speak Greek?” he replied. “Aren’t you the Egyptian who started a revolt and led four thousand terrorists out into the wilderness some time ago?”
Paul answered, “I am a Jew, from Tarsus in Cilicia, a citizen of no ordinary city. Please let me speak to the people.”
After receiving the commander’s permission, Paul stood on the steps and motioned to the crowd. When they were all silent, he said to them in Aramaic: “Brothers and fathers, listen now to my defense.”
When they heard him speak to them in Aramaic, they became very quiet.
Then Paul said: “I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city. I studied under Gamaliel and was thoroughly trained in the law of our ancestors. I was just as zealous for God as any of you are today. I persecuted the followers of this Way to their death, arresting both men and women and throwing them into prison, as the high priest and all the Council can themselves testify. I even obtained letters from them to their associates in Damascus, and went there to bring these people as prisoners to Jerusalem to be punished.
“About noon as I came near Damascus, suddenly a bright light from heaven flashed around me. 7 I fell to the ground and heard a voice say to me, ‘Saul! Saul! Why do you persecute me?’
“‘Who are you, LORD?’ I asked.
“ ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting,’ He replied. My companions saw the light, but they did not understand the voice of Him who was speaking to me.
“‘What shall I do, LORD?’ I asked.
“ ‘Get up,’ the LORD said, ‘and go into Damascus. There you will be told all that you have been assigned to do.’ My companions led me by the hand into Damascus, because the brilliance of the light had blinded me.
“A man named Ananias came to see me. He was a devout observer of the law and highly respected by all the Jews living there. He stood beside me and said, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight!’ And at that very moment I was able to see him.
“Then he said: ‘The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know His will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from His mouth. You will be His witness to all people of what you have seen and heard. And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on His Name.’
“When I returned to Jerusalem and was praying at the temple, I fell into a trance and saw the LORD speaking to me. ‘Quick!’ He said. ‘Leave Jerusalem immediately, because the people here will not accept your testimony about Me.’
“‘LORD,’ I replied, ‘these people know that I went from one synagogue to another to imprison and beat those who believe in You. And when the blood of your martyr Stephen was shed, I stood there giving my approval and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him.’
“Then the LORD said to me, ‘Go; I will send you far away to the Gentiles.’ ”
Paul the Roman Citizen
The crowd listened to Paul until he said this. Then they raised their voices and shouted, “Rid the earth of him! He’s not fit to live!”
As they were shouting and throwing off their cloaks and flinging dust into the air, the commander ordered that Paul be taken into the barracks. He directed that he be flogged and interrogated in order to find out why the people were shouting at him like this. As they stretched him out to flog him, Paul said to the centurion standing there, “Is it legal for you to flog a Roman citizen who hasn’t even been found guilty?”
When the centurion heard this, he went to the commander and reported it. “What are you going to do?” he asked. “This man is a Roman citizen.”
The commander went to Paul and asked, “Tell me, are you a Roman citizen?”
“Yes, I am,” he answered.
Then the commander said, “I had to pay a lot of money for my citizenship.”
“But I was born a citizen,” Paul replied.
Those who were about to interrogate him withdrew immediately. The commander himself was alarmed when he realized that he had put Paul, a Roman citizen, in chains.
Paul Before the Sanhedrin
The commander wanted to find out exactly why Paul was being accused by the Jews. So the next day he released him and ordered the chief priests and all the members of the Sanhedrin to assemble. Then he brought Paul and had him stand before them.
Paul looked straight at the Sanhedrin and said, “My brothers, I have fulfilled my duty to God in all good conscience to this day.” At this the high priest Ananias ordered those standing near Paul to strike him on the mouth. Then Paul said to him, “God will strike you, you whitewashed wall! You sit there to judge me according to the law, yet you yourself violate the law by commanding that I be struck!”
Those who were standing near Paul said, “How dare you insult God’s high priest!”
Paul replied, “Brothers, I did not realize that he was the high priest; for it is written: ‘Do not speak evil about the ruler of your people.”
Then Paul, knowing that some of them were Sadducees and the others Pharisees, called out in the Sanhedrin, “My brothers, I am a Pharisee, descended from Pharisees. I stand on trial because of the hope of the resurrection of the dead.” When he said this, a dispute broke out between the Pharisees and the Sadducees, and the assembly was divided. (The Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, and that there are neither angels nor spirits, but the Pharisees believe all these things.)
There was a great uproar, and some of the teachers of the law who were Pharisees stood up and argued vigorously. “We find nothing wrong with this man,” they said. “What if a spirit or an angel has spoken to him?” The dispute became so violent that the commander was afraid Paul would be torn to pieces by them. He ordered the troops to go down and take him away from them by force and bring him into the barracks.
The following night the LORD stood near Paul and said, “Take courage! As you have testified about me in Jerusalem, so you must also testify in Rome.”
The Plot to Kill Paul
The next morning some Jews formed a conspiracy and bound themselves with an oath not to eat or drink until they had killed Paul. More than forty men were involved in this plot. They went to the chief priests and the elders and said, “We have taken a solemn oath not to eat anything until we have killed Paul. Now then, you and the Sanhedrin petition the commander to bring him before you on the pretext of wanting more accurate information about his case. We are ready to kill him before he gets here.”
But when the son of Paul’s sister heard of this plot, he went into the barracks and told Paul.
Then Paul called one of the centurions and said, “Take this young man to the commander; he has something to tell him.” So he took him to the commander.
The centurion said, “Paul, the prisoner, sent for me and asked me to bring this young man to you because he has something to tell you.”
The commander took the young man by the hand, drew him aside and asked, “What is it you want to tell me?”
He said: “Some Jews have agreed to ask you to bring Paul before the Sanhedrin tomorrow on the pretext of wanting more accurate information about him. Don’t give in to them, because more than forty of them are waiting in ambush for him. They have taken an oath not to eat or drink until they have killed him. They are ready now, waiting for your consent to their request.”
The commander dismissed the young man with this warning: “Don’t tell anyone that you have reported this to me.”
Paul Transferred to Caesarea
Then he called two of his centurions and ordered them, “Get ready a detachment of two hundred soldiers, seventy horsemen and two hundred spearmen to go to Caesarea at nine tonight. Provide horses for Paul so that he may be taken safely to Governor Felix.”
He wrote a letter as follows:
Claudius Lysias,
To His Excellency, Governor Felix:
Greetings.
This man was seized by the Jews and they were about to kill him, but I came with my troops and rescued him, for I had learned that he is a Roman citizen. I wanted to know why they were accusing him, so I brought him to their Sanhedrin. I found that the accusation had to do with questions about their law, but there was no charge against him that deserved death or imprisonment. When I was informed of a plot to be carried out against the man, I sent him to you at once. I also ordered his accusers to present to you their case against him ~
Yes, the LORD does work in “mysterious” ways! (Providential protection and provision for Paul!) Here is a plot to kill Paul and forty men have taken a vow to do so!! It is true, -everywhere Paul went,- there was either a riot or a revival! This “Christ” Paul preaches is so “controversial!” But did not our LORD (Himself) say:
~ Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword! ~
Matthew 10.34)
May “yes” and “no”- never agree? What about “darkness” and “light?” – or are there “shades of gray?”
Truth? Error?- Do these agree? Salt water? Fresh? Bitter? Sweet?
Poor Paul. He is only acting according to the instructions of YHWH, “go preach the gospel to the Gentiles” and yet He is (yes?) being “persecuted” for proclaiming the “good news,” – the long promised Messiah has come!”
Paul was a man with a (God-given) mission. ~ When I was with the Jews, I lived like a Jew to bring the Jews to Christ. When I was with those who follow the Jewish law, I too lived under that law. Even though I am not subject to the law, I did this so I could bring to Christ those who are under the law. ~
Oh? What, then was this mission of this early “Christian” missionary, Paul? (the man formerly known as Saul!).
~ When I was with the Jews, I lived like a Jew to bring the Jews to Christ. When I was with those who follow the Jewish law, I too lived under that law. Even though I am not subject to the law, I did this so I could bring to Christ those who are under the law ~ (1 Corinthians 9.20)
to bring “them” to Christ! to win the “lost” (in this case, the lost sheep of the house of Israel) to Christ!
Whether Jew or Gentile- “win the lost at any cost!” And did Paul ever “pay the price!!”
He was certainly zealous in his persecution of the early “church!” -and presided over the stoning of Steven nodding his approval for this horrendous crime. Paul, (himself) acted under authority.
Oh yes, we have forgotten (so readily, so handily) the words of the manipulated mob: “away with Him- let Him be crucified!
He WAS despised and rejected by men- wasn’t He?
He was then, and still is today! We still despise and reject Him- and ALL we like sheep (jewish sheep and Gentile sheep) have gone astray.. ~ there is none righteous,- no, not one! ~ Not even a Torah obedient Jew, such as Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews? What was it (again) that the Savior said to him?
Must even a Torah obedient Jew (also) be born from above? (and.. of course!- why?) Was the cross of Christ “necessary?” ~ without the shedding of blood is no remission of sins ~
~ for the life of the body is in its blood. I have given you the blood on the altar to purify you, making you right with the LORD. It is the blood, given in exchange for a life, that makes purification possible ~
(Leviticus 17.11)
What? Atonement (again?)
~ For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified ~ (1 Corinthians 2.2)
Again..- this “controversial” Christ.
Was the bloody cross of the sinless, spotless Chosen One- “necessary?”
~ God will provide Himself the Lamb..~
~ For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to Himself, no longer counting people’s sins against them. and He has given unto us this wonderful message of reconciliation ~ (2 Corinthians 5.19)
~ For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh. But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation ~
Oh?
~ Therefore, knowing the fear of the LORD, we persuade others. But what we are is known to God, and I hope it is known also to your conscience. We are not commending ourselves to you again but giving you cause to boast about us, so that you may be able to answer those who boast about outward appearance and not about what is in the heart. For if we are beside ourselves, it is for God; if we are in our right mind, it is for you. For the love of Christ controls us, because we have concluded this: that One has died for all, therefore all have died;
and He died for ALL, (both Jew and Gentile?) that those who live might no longer live for themselves but for Him who for their sake died and was raised.
From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard Him thus no longer. (Savior and LORD of ALL!!!-both Jew and Gentile!!) Therefore, if anyone (Jew or Gentile, male or female) is *in Christ*, he (or she) is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. (I am not who I was!) All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to Himself and has given unto us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world (the world?- both Jew and Gentile?) to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the (gospel!) message of reconciliation Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making His appeal through us.
We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
For our sake He made Him to be sin who knew no sin, so that *in Him* we might become the righteousness of God ~
Phew!
Carl, I appreciate your comments. Now, how about a just piece at a time? It’d allow time for digestion. 🙂
Was the rumor about what Paul was teaching the Jews or what he was teaching the Gentiles?
You said “Then they raise an issue. It seems that a nasty rumor has been circulating in Jerusalem. The rumor is that Paul is teaching “the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.” ”
But all the versions I read say “and they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs. (Acts 21:21 ESV)”
And in Stern’s version, “that you are teaching all the Jews living among the Goyim…”
Am I missing something?
No, you aren’t missing something. I missed something. Correction noted. But it doesn’t change the argument because it still confirms that Paul is Torah observant AFTER his Damascus road experience and that he continued to teach Torah observance to the people in the Diaspora
Skip, your statement would be correct if you substituted the word ‘people’ with ‘Jews’ in your last statement. There is not one shred of evidence that Paul was teaching all believers to be torah observant, but only the Jews. If you are going to honest to the Acts 21 text, there was only one controversy or rumor: Was Paul teaching Jews living among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, Torah, Circumcision and Jewish life? The answer is clearly ‘no’. We agree on that. But there is NOTHING in the text about what he was teaching Gentiles other than v. 25 where it says they “should observe no such thing”.
Believers from the nations have an amazing inheritance in God, but they were freed from keep liturgical Torah. Blessings.
Ron
Hi Ron, I wonder if this might help: My NASB references Acts 21:25 back to Acts 15:19 & 20. Verse 15:21 obviously follows those verses and says ” For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he (I.e. the books of Moses, Gen through Deut) is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”
My understanding is that the Gentiles who were just now turning from paganism to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were encouraged to, as a first step, do only those things that would make them acceptable for fellowship within the Jewish community. Because, in the synagogues on every Sabbath they would then receive further instruction on how to live as a child of God.
I agree with you Tonya. It seems to me an additional outcome of the council in the narrative of Acts 15:19-21 was the codifying of what the LORD’s previous instructions to Peter in his Acts 10 dream, the mandating of immediate fellowship especially table fellowship with gentiles that came to faith.
It is my understanding the Synagogue at that time had a practice/tradition that required Gentiles, either God Fearers or Proselytes, to have studied Torah for at least one year before the Jewish congregation could have full fellowship, i.e enter their homes, eat together, etc…
Hi Tonya, I want to be gentle here and typing sometimes lacks empathy. There is no where in the Scriptures that teaches that the Acts 15 prohibitions were a starting point. The only passage that remotely points to this is Acts 15:21. But no where else after that is there even a hint that the Gentiles were expected to keep the liturgical aspects Torah. Paul, who was entrusted with the letter about Gentiles and Torah, never mentions it. Even in Galatians where he warns them against circumcision for salvation, he never qualifies that by saying, “but God does expect you to grow in Torah observance in your devotional life.”
Furthermore, don’t you find it suspect that v. 21 is missing from James’ letter to the congregations? (See acts 15:23-29). Please explain why James does not repeat v. 21 if indeed it meant that the apostles expected them to grow in torah observance. In fact, can you or anyone else here show me one verse that clearly states that the four prohibitions were a starting point.
As to your last statement, while I do believe that Jews stayed in the synagogue until they were no longer welcomed, it is hard to believe that the believing apostles were encouraging their non-Jewish disciples to sit under the teachings of those who rejected Yeshua. (Unless the leadership of the synagogue had come to faith, which I imagine did happen in some case, but not the majority) In many synagogues they most likely taught that Yeshua was not the Messiah, so it is unlikely that the Jewish apostles were feeding their new Gentiles brethren as sheep to wolves.
Blessings!
Ron
Shalom Louis,
Can you quote a source on this? I would be interested in seeing it. thanks.
Ron
liturgical Torah? Since when is Torah categorized into divisions?
Now, if as Gentile by birth I wish to be part of Israel as God’s people, are you telling me that I cannot keep Torah (obviously not those commandments that apply only to specific Jews)? Are you actually saying that God does NOT want me to be faithful to the instructions He gave to His people?
Your paradigm excludes Gentiles on the basis of birth, but my natural birth has nothing to do with my adoption by God into His Kingdom, does it? There is NOT one shred of evidence that Paul taught Torah observance to Gentiles? Really? Paul was so concerned with Torah for Jews that he made no effort at all to instruction those who were grafted into the Kingdom to live according to God’s direction? Really? So as a Gentile I am free to do whatever I wish, right? Obviously, not. So what you are really saying (maybe) is that as a Gentile I am not instructed to do what God instructed Jews to do. I agree. But that does not entail that I do not have ANY obligations to any part of Torah that applies.
By no means am I saying that, just that you are not required to as a matter of calling. God called Israel, as his firstborn (believer or unbeliever see Rom 3:1ff) with a unique calling that is still valid today (Rom. 11:29) though not connected to salvation. I have seen many non-Jews seek to unite with the people of Israel (many who marry Jewish believers) and I think that is great.
By no means, you are grafted into the commonwealth of Israel through the blood of Yeshua. You enjoy favor that any son would. But Gentiles are not called to keep the liturgical aspects of Torah.
I do understand that many today teach that that there is no difference between murder and eating pork-chops, between adultery and cutting the corners of your beard, but I submit to you there are ceremonial aspects of Torah that were given to Israel alone as a unique identifiable people group to birth the Messiah and be a light to the nations, and there are universal laws in Torah that apply to everyone.
If you read Paul writings it is interesting that the very man given the letter from the apostles regarding Gentiles and how they should worship/what parts of the Law would not keep them from table fellowship with Jews NEVER mentions keeping sabbath, keeping kosher, not shaving, separating wool and linen, etc, but emphasizes constantly moral living (Rom 1, Gal. 5:19-23, Eph. 5:5, Col. 3:5-9).
No, Jews and Gentiles alike will not inherit the kingdom if they live in willful disobedience (again, Gal. 5:19ff, Eph. 5:5). If you have time, pick up Dan Juster’s books Jewish Roots and the Irrevocable Call. And to be clear, this is not at all to say Jews are better then Gentiles–GOD FORBID!– anymore than saying that men are better then women. Men have a different role to play, but when it comes to enjoying the forgiveness of God through Yeshua there is neither Male or Female, Jew or Gentile, but when it comes to roles and callings, there are differences. If wife says “God doesn’t love me because I am a woman” that would be silly. In the same way he loves the nations as he loves Israel.
Clearly not every law is for everyone, as I don;t have a monthly cycle. There were some laws just for women, some for men, some for everyone. Some universal, some for Israel.
Hi again Ron, There wasn’t a reply button on your post to me earlier so I will respond here.
First let me say I appreciate gentle, I’m pretty new to all this, so thanks for that.
Second I really don’t know why the weekly synagogue teaching is left out of the letter. Maybe the writers assumed that based on the current practice of the day, the new believers would be there. Maybe there were “home groups” beginning to meet and the leaders didn’t care which group they attended as long as they were receiving instruction. Maybe it was simply a translator decision to leave it out? It seems though, they did consider the books of Moses important for the Gentiles or they wouldn’t have included this information as a support for the judgment made regarding them. Whatever the reason, because verse 21 does exist I don’t believe it is acceptable to disregard the implication?
Third, I really don’t know what you mean by Liturgical Torah, that is a new term for me. I understand there are some aspects of Torah that are specific to certain groups, some specific to the Temple, some that Yeshua elevated or gave deeper meanings to, some that are considered weightier matters. Maybe you could explain what you mean by Liturgical Torah?
I apologize that this is an incomplete response and that I won’t be able to get back to this for awhile. We are having guests tonight and I must prepare for them! I am however very interested in learning and eager to hear more from you and others about this!
Hey, just to clarify. What translation do you use that inserts “no such thing.”
NKJV
Hi Ron, 🙂 Good to see you here brother! Welcome to wonderful teachings from Skip who is well grounded in Greek and Hebraic world views. Much to learn from him, from the hundreds of Today’s Word (TW) articles, books and videos taken in Israel, found at this site.
After reading all your comments, some of which are representative of some of the folks who are struggling here in their paradigm shifts too.
We/I are/am focusing on being spiritual “Jews” of the Commonwealth of Israel firstly, and then being grafted in, spiritually as well, Israel becomes the Land, or inheritance of all who choose to walk in Torah/instructions/laws/commandments/directions as written in all of the Scriptures.
All Scriptures “OT and NT” are written for the building up of our trust/emunah in Elohim, to fulfill our purpose YHWH has assigned for us individually.
Have you read my humble comments right below all these comments?
Enjoy the next TW- Curses and Conditions. Stayed tuned! 🙂
Shalom v’brachot,
Ester
Hi Ron,
Just sending you a note on additional comment from a reply from Bob Gorelik to Skip.
Please read it below?
Shalom Shalom!
Hellow David.The jews that paul is referring to are in dispersion.They are from the 10 tribes that have been scattered among the gentiles.They have been raised in greek hellanisim,they are hardly recognizable as part of Isreal. Its these people paul is reaching out to.Remember what Yashuah said I have come for the lost sheep of Isreal.
Yes, but David is right about my mistake with the text. Conclusion is the same. Text needs correction. I have done so.
ah, Skip, that final question was so well crafted. For people like me — who made my decision before Baptism that I needed the blood of Yahshua to cleanse me from all unrighteousness and put me into the position of freedom from the wages of sin, and then I needed the set apart spirit of Yahshua to empower me to stay in Torah and to walk in Yah’s way of truth and kindness — your question is rhetorical and it is a powerful impetus to stay committed to Yah’s way.
I am reminded of a brief exchange two days ago between myself and the owner of the magazine I work for. Every year they hold a party a week or two before the christmas holiday, and since the owner is not really christian the party is not really christmasy… it’s more about drinking. Fortunately it is not a command performance, because only once has it NOT fallen on a Sabbath and so only once have I attended. So anyway, the owner and I were chatting over lunch two days ago and I asked her if there was any reason that the party could not be held on a night other then Friday, like a Thursday or a Saturday. She said it had to do with people wanting to spend time with their families on Sunday, or working on Friday. I said, “Okay, just wondering, because the only reason I don’t attend is that you host it on the 7th day, and I keep the sabbath.” She asked, “Don’t you get a get-out-of-jail-free card once a year?” I stared blankly, so she said, “The catholics do. They are free to do what they want to do sometimes.” I smiled understandingly and said, “Well, the sabbath is the day for resting and meditating with Yahweh…” and she finished my sentence for me, saying, “…and there is no meditating at our party!” So we were in total agreement at the end about the purpose of the party and she understood why I don’t go and I gained a valuable reminder of the “get-out-of-jail-free” mindset… which was the mindset I submitted to all those former years as an atheist… all those struggling, unhappy years. Now that I walk in Yah’s way, I am actually free and happy and I choose to stay there!
HalleluYah for the loving Hand of Yah, guiding me on the straight and narrow path wherein there is Liberty!
–Melissa Rawlins
AMEN, Carl!
The two great dividers:
NO KNOWLEDGE—- “Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken,
not knowing the scriptures nor the power of God.” Mat 22:29
NO HOLY SPIRIT —- “But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed
the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not
have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.” Rm 8:9
This compliance of Paul did accomplish the very thing that he hoped to do, –which was pacify the Jews. Instead it provoked them, and brought him into great trouble.
BUT (yay! for big buts) the all-wise God overruled both their advice and Paul’s compliance with it,
to serve a better purpose than was intended.
How utterly vain and useless to try to please men who would only be pleased with nothing less than rooting out of Christianity.
Steadfastness of heart is more likely to preserve us than insincere compliances.
Another worthwhile lesson in this is not to ask others to do what is against their own heart’s leadings and judgment, — just to oblige us, or some other party.
Integrity Integrity Integrity !
did NOT accomplish the very thing
I think you missed the history lesson on this one. In fact, THOUSANDS of Jews welcomed Yeshua as Messiah and followed Torah. It is a myth of the Christian Church that the JEWS in total rejected what Paul taught.
“Some historians believe that more than one million Jewish people in the first century A.D. believed that Yeshua was the Messiah, both in Israel and outside of Israel (Acts 2:37-42, 4:4, 21:20).”
source: http://www.bethyeshuainternational.com/shalom/messianic-judaism/>
Can’t confirm the numbers or the “some historians”
Oh, I KNOW many did believe, PRAISE GOD!
I have never said they didn’t.
“You” MUST!!!
It is a myth of the Christian Church that SOME (not all) believe the Jews “in total” rejected what Paul taught. Yeshua, Jesus Christ of Nazareth) is THE MESSIAH!!
Yes, there are saved (twice-born) Jews who have not rejected, but received Christ, and there are also (some) Goyim who are lost.
~ other sheep have I which are NOT of this fold! ~
Our division, (if we insist on being divided) is whether or not- ANY MAN (whether circumcised or not) is born from above and has been regenerated (made new).
This very question may be asked by “whosoever will” – “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
Was the Philippian jailor Jewish? or was he Gentile? None of this “background material” mattered! For any man, woman or child who desires to be saved- may be saved.
Because of the torn veil of the temple, – we ALL have open access to God (OUR) Father. Forgiveness of sins? “Ask, and you will receive..” To enter into a personal (each man or woman is a person!) relationship with Elohim we must ALL enter in through the Door, which is Christ, “Seek, and you (too) will find.” How deep (or shallow) our roots may go will be determined by our “Knock” (keep on knocking persistently)- and it shall be opened (or revealed) unto you.
Again, please consider this: Christ died for sinners. All have sinned. Did Yeshau HaMashiach, Jesus (who is the) Christ, the Anointed One of God, son of man AND God the Son die in agony and (very real, red and human blood for me?
Is He the Savior of ALL nations? and of ALL mankind? Yes, He was born into a Jewish family and reared (not raised!) in all the traditions and teachings of his Jewish step-father, Joseph, but this Man was “born of a virgin!” (Huh?) Born of a virgin? Who then, is the Father?
I’m going to stop here, before I begin! Already – here is “controversy!” No man that I know of, or ever heard of – has been born of a virgin! Only One! Yeshua HaMashiach,- the God-Man. As much God as if He were not man at all AND as much “human” as if He were not God at all! But… He was “both!” Both God AND Man- God in human flesh! ( I did say I was going to stop, -didn’t I?)
Oh,but I do not want to stop! I want to proclaim to “any man” (Jew or Gentile, male or female) Jesus (who is the) Christ IS LORD!!! LORD of the Jew *AND* LORD of the Gentile!
~ if ANY MAN be *in Christ!* ~ Are you?
Here is the answer Paul and Silas gave to the one who desired to be saved:
~ and they said, believe on the LORD Jesus Christ, and you shall be saved, and your house! ~
(Acts 16.31)
Salvation is not spelled “DO,” it is “D-O-N-E!!” (This is very “good news” to all who will receive it!)
“as many as received Him,” -includes “both” Jew and Gentile,- for “whosoever will” may come!
Here is the “open invitation” of Christ (Himself).
~ Come unto Me – “ALL” you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest! Take my yoke upon you and learn of Me!- for I am meek and lowly in heart and you will find rest unto your souls!
Our (common) salvation (our second birth) and our common sanctification (our spiritual growth and maturity)- “all” center in Christ. For “without Him” (it is written) ~ we (no man) can do nothing! ~ (John 15.5)
~ Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live? ~ (Ezekiel 18:23)
One thing we must remember.. Not only is He the Saving Lamb,- He also (now) is the Sovereign Lamb! Our (always) Good Shepherd!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m_dP2n-5W8
It sounds to me like some are accusing Paul of being a terrible hypocrite, living one way among one group of people and different among another. I don’t think Paul was a hypocrite. I think his words are clear if read in context. And Skip is right.
Besides the Scripture Skip quoted, the rest of the book of Acts gives ample support for the consistent Torah observant life that Paul lived. In defending his Torah observance to different groups Paul said:
Acts 22:3 (CJB)
3 “I am a Jew, born in Tarsus of Cilicia, but brought up in this city and trained at the feet of Gamli’el in every detail of the Torah of our forefathers. I was a zealot for God, as all of you are today.
Acts 23:6 (CJB)
6 But knowing that one part of the Sanhedrin consisted of Tz’dukim and the other of P’rushim, Sha’ul shouted, “Brothers, I myself am a Parush and the son of P’rushim; and it is concerning the hope of the resurrection of the dead that I am being tried!”
Acts 24:11-14 (CJB)
11 As you can verify for yourself, it has not been more than twelve days since I went up to worship in Yerushalayim;
12 and neither in the Temple nor in the synagogues nor anywhere else in the city did they find me either arguing with anyone or collecting a crowd.
13 Nor can they give any proof of the things of which they are accusing me.
14 “But this I do admit to you: I worship the God of our fathers in accordance with the Way (which they call a sect). I continue to believe everything that accords with the Torah and everything written in the Prophets.
I believe Paul was speaking of the incident Skip is talking about today when he said:
Acts 24:17-18 (CJB)
17 “After an absence of several years, I came to Yerushalayim to bring a charitable gift to my nation and to offer sacrifices.
18 It was in connection with the latter that they found me in the Temple. I had been ceremonially purified, I was not with a crowd, and I was not causing a disturbance.
In his defense before Festus:
Acts 25:8 (CJB)
8 In reply, Sha’ul said, “I have committed no offense — not against the Torah to which the Jews hold, not against the Temple, and not against the Emperor.”
In front of King Agrippa he said:
Acts 26:4-5 (CJB)
4 “So then! All Jews know how I lived my life from my youth on, both in my own country and in Yerushalayim.
5 They have known me for a long time; and if they are willing, they can testify that I have followed the strictest party in our religion — that is, I have lived as a Parush.
These are just a few examples. However in chapter 28 he makes some of his strongest statements:
Acts 28:17-18 (CJB)
17 After three days Sha’ul called a meeting of the local Jewish leaders. When they had gathered, he said to them: “Brothers, although I have done nothing against either our people or the traditions of our fathers, I was made a prisoner in Yerushalayim and handed over to the Romans.
18 They examined me and were ready to release me, because I had done nothing to justify a death sentence.
In saying this he even goes beyond the written Torah and says he has not violated the “traditions of our fathers”.
He continued to live this way even to the end of his life:
Acts 28:23 (CJB)
23 So they arranged a day with him and came to his quarters in large numbers. From morning until evening he explained the matter to them, giving a thorough witness about the Kingdom of God and making use of both the Torah of Moshe and the Prophets to persuade them about Yeshua.
This may be off the subject but in one of the comments I read “there is none righteous,- no, not one! ~ Not even a Torah obedient Jew, such as Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews?” I know that is true but here is a quote from Scripture that sort of messes with the narrow theology of how God views righteousness:
Luke 1:5-6 (CJB)
5 In the days of Herod, King of Y’hudah, there was a cohen named Z’kharyah who belonged to the Aviyah division. His wife was a descendant of Aharon, and her name was Elisheva.
6 Both of them were righteous before God, observing all the mitzvot and ordinances of Adonai blamelessly.
Somehow they were righteous before God before the cross.
Thanks for adding the rest of the story. The LAW VERSUS GRACE theology, popular with all major Christian denominations, it Luther’s invention and ignores all of these verses (plus more evidence from the culture). But this dichotomy is NECESSARY if Christianity is going to identify itself as NOT JEWISH, and that’s the real reason for this false claim.
Paul’s Plans
Paul makes up his mind to go back to Jerusalem through Macedonia
In connection with the Way, Paul encounters a silversmith called Demetrius
Who employed a large number of craftsmen making silver shrines of Diana
Paul’s presence causes quite a disturbance because he argued gods made by man
Were no gods at all
Hmmm
My mother was not interested in theological issues
But one thing she taught me when I was very young
Was that she knew for sure that God was not a man
How would you explain these scriptures 1corinthians 9: 20-23
“How would you explain these scriptures 1 Corinthians 9: 20-23”
Hi Vicky
Remember the famous “mirror scene” with Robert De Niro in Taxi Driver? …. you talking to me?
20 That is, with Jews, what I did was put myself in the position of a Jew, in order to win Jews. With people in subjection to a legalistic perversion of the Torah, I put myself in the position of someone under such legalism, in order to win those under this legalism, even though I myself am not in subjection to a legalistic perversion of the Torah.
21 With those who live outside the framework of Torah, I put myself in the position of someone outside the Torah in order to win those outside the Torah – although I myself am not outside the framework of God’s Torah but within the framework of Torah as upheld by the Messiah.
22 With the “weak” I became “weak,” in order to win the “weak.” With all kinds of people I have become all kinds of things, so that in all kinds of circumstances I might save at least some of them.
23 But I do it all because of the rewards promised by the Good News,
Hmmm
To call Paul a “radical” would be something of an understatement
To get to the “root” of the problem
Paul performs what I would call an extreme form of “other-orientation”
To serve the other person, he completely subjugates himself
And becomes one with the other person
Sometimes, I refrain from writing things…. especially in appreciation of the TW content- because it sounds “kiss-butt”. Besides, if I am too often in agreement – there are some who pop-in here and see us readers as “Skip-followers”.
But today, I just want to say thank-you Skip. Thank-you for saying it like it is. It takes courage to put certain things forward in an unabashed way… especially knowing how some will receive it.
I have just read and listened to an interesting topic -if Gentiles need to follow Torah?
I would say YES. This is not to be confused to being “converted” to Judaism, as most Christianity understands it, nor are Torah observant Believers keeping “Jewish” Feasts (Bible clearly states they are HIS Feasts), nor becoming “Jews”, but simply being set-apart as Israel is set-apart from all the other nations, and religions for that matter.
The ceremonial ‘laws’ cannot be applied as there is no longer priests nor a temple.
Torah is instructions for living His way, why then is it not applicable to all Bible believers, be they “Jews” or “Gentiles”? It is the Word of YAH!
“The problem is that Paul wasn’t anti-Semitic.” This is a big issue, to be accused of being anti-semitic, due to his past in persecuting the followers of the Way.
Taking the Nazarite vow clears his name, and shuts the mouth of his accusers.
Hi Ester, Sounds like a wonderful study, thanks for sharing your humble comments 🙂 I have a few verses in mind on this topic, and some passages seem to be so clear, that I wonder if I am missing something. I am not sure why there is such controversy (other than an opposing paradigm of course), maybe I am applying scripture where it wasn’t meant to be applied? Maybe some were covered in your recent study and /or you could share your opinion as to whether they really are applicable to the idea of Gentiles keeping Torah (not to gain salvation/relationship but as a way of living and growing in that relationship) :
First (all verses may be paraphrased a bit):
Matthew 7:21-27 Not everyone who says to Me Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven (will enter.) Many will say to Me on that day Lord Lord did we not prophesy in Your name, cast out demons, perform many miracles… then I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.
Therefore Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock…rain, floods, winds: and it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock. Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand… rain, floods, winds; and it fell – and great was its fall. (This really doesn’t make Torah seem like a take it or leave it option for followers of the One True God in Yeshua.) (The two passages being linked – Therefore – says to me that the wise one will keep Torah as his foundation… will not practices lawlessness.)
Second:
Matthew 22:36-40 Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law? And He said to him You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. The second is like it You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.
John 14:15 If you love Me you will keep my Commandments (Yeshua)
John 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.
John 14:23 …If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him.
John 14:24 He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father’s who sent Me.
(These passages seem to speak to anyone in Messiah saying: Love Me, Love God, and Love your neighbor by keeping His commandments)
And then this one:
1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing (being Jewish doesn’t matter), and uncircumcision is nothing (being not Jewish doesn’t matter), but (what matters is) the keeping of the commandments of God.
(This seems to be a very direct, obvious verse from the Newer Writings that includes both groups in the admonishment to keep Torah.)
Thanks in advance for your time if you are able to respond, if not maybe someone else will have some constructive thoughts to share…
Hi Tonya,
You have gotten all of it exactly right! 🙂 HalleluYAH! You are so blessed to be on the right path.
How joyful is ABBA when we get it right according to His ways.
This is the unity YHWH so desires from us, that we be one in truth and in spirit.
Skip explains clearly in his comment above:
“The only remaining issue is if Torah applies to Gentiles. That answer is found in Acts 15. And the answer is YES, after I am grafted into the commonwealth of Israel, I am no longer treated differently than any other citizen of the Kingdom from the perspective of Torah. What applies to me, applies to me. James makes that clear with his comment that all are taught Moses every Sabbath. To suggest that Acts 15 exempts Gentiles who are now in the community from Torah expectation is to claim that God has TWO torahs, one for Jews and one for Gentiles. I reject that view as incompatible with the rest of Paul’s teaching and the instructions of Yeshua.” (Acts 15:21)
Torah is the law of the Kingdom, of liberty, setting us free from deception, and crafty handling of YHWH’s Word, as a light to our path.
Psalm 119 , contains all the 22 Hebrew letters of the alephbet, is full of praise for the Torah.
Sharing this beautiful video with you, and all in this blog-Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHaJb8TTiL4
Shalom and love to you.
Thanks Ester, I am glad you sent the video. It all seems so clear when someone else is presenting! (I even like it when Dorothy or others have objections because of the responses that come in, from Skip of course, but also from you and so many others here.) I am learning to be comfortable with the objections and a bit more secure with what a helpful response would be. I feel sort of like I am cramming for a big test. We have some very new folks (I guess I should say folks new to this paradigm) interested in studying with us and in the past it hasn’t gone so well…. Anyway we have learned from the disagreements and thankfully my home is now more unified, so probably this next experience will be quite different. Maybe we will start with a video 🙂
Thanks too for mentioning spirit and truth. I have been pondering just what it is to worship in spirit and truth…
Shalom and love to you as well!
Hi Tonya, 🙂
I enjoy those Utube teachings too, Bill has many such teachings on Torah on those topics, which you can freely use in your fellowship. I use them as well for new comers to this paradigm, they are so well presented.
Love, shalom and blessings to you!
Bob Gorelik sent me this reply to the confusion about Jew or Gentile obedience to Torah. It’s worth reading and considering.
“The idea that Paul (or anyone else) never taught that the “Gentiles needed to follow Torah” is ridiculous. But, one’s inability to “see” it (as we have discussed many times) is a function of the way Christians tend to read the Bible, i.e., reading it through the “lens” of a Greek (or Western) World-view paradigm – and NOT the Jewish World-view paradigm of its authors.
And, to make matters worse, the very discussion that takes place on this subject is a problem because even though people use some of the same terms, e.g., “Torah,” “Jews,” “Gentiles,” “observance,” etc., they define them differently. For example, for Jews living in the 1st-century, the Torah was “more precious … than thousands of pieces of silver and gold” (Psa 119:72), something loved, cherished and embraced (Psa 119, et al). Likewise Paul, in his letter to the Romans, says that the Torah “is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous … good” (7:12) and “spiritual” (7:14).
Unfortunately, Christians tend to define the term “Torah” based on what the Greek word for law (nomos) means, i.e., a set of “rules and regulations” to follow strictly rather than a collection of timeless, living instructions that reflect the character of God and integrated into our lives so that we “might not sin against” God (Psa 119:11).
What, only Jews sin? Gentiles don’t have to worry about such things? Only Jews have an “obligation” to walk in God’s “Ways” – how Gentiles behave is irrelevant? If this is so, then why were the 1st-century disciple’s of Yeshua called followers of the “Way” (Acts 22:4)? And, just for the record, this expression DOES NOT mean, the “Christian Way,” since “Christianity” would not develop for another 100 years.
And, if Paul wasn’t concerned about the behavior of all Believers, Gentiles too, then why are his letters FILLED with instructions to “walk in the spirit” and NOT in a way so as to “gratify the desires of the flesh” (Gal 4:16). For Paul, and every other Jewish Rabbi/teacher in the 1st-century, the phrases, “walk(ing) in the spirit” and walking in the “flesh” are quintessential expressions that define the contrast between “life” and “death,” “power” and “powerlessness,” “blessing” and “curse,” “freedom” and “bondage,” “obedience” and “disobedience” and “lawlessness” and “Torah observance” (or “faith”). And, by the way, “Law” and “Grace” are NOT contrasting terms – in Hebrew they are “dynamic equivalents” like “word” and “law” and countless other synonyms that define Jewish “poetry.”
What did Paul mean when he told Timothy that “all Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work (2Tim 3:17)? The only “Scripture” that existed when Paul wrote these words to Timothy was the Torah (and by this I mean the same thing that 1st-century Jews meant when they said it – the whole Hebrew Bible, i.e., the whole revealed written, inspired revelation from God to the Jewish people). And what did he mean by “every good work”? In the 1st-century “good works” (ma’aseh tov) were known as the mitzvot (the “commandments” [of God]) – they still are.
Of course Paul agreed with those Corinthians who said “I have the right to do anything” – but not everything is “beneficial” or “constructive” (1Cor 10:23) right? In other words, it’s OK to murder, or commit adultery, or steal, or lie – but we shouldn’t because it’s not “constructive” for people to do these things. Do you see how ridiculous the arguments get?
Sorry, like the Gentiles Paul refers to in his letter to the Romans, “although (these people) claim … to be wise, they became fools (Rom 1:22) – Why? Because they understand things, NOT based on the way God reveals things, but on the basis of the way that THEY PERCEIVED things – always a recipe for disaster!”
Like! And that was definitely worth sharing.
Thanks for posting this Skip, I’m agreeing with Jaco, very helpful.
Thank you for sharing this, Skip, clearly no contradiction to what most of us in this blog believe.
It is clear as day, not sure why the groping in the dark?
I guess some of us have sought, dug, and found, more than the others, who are content just being “saved by grace”, just being “in Christ”, but not concerned if Christ/Messiah is IN them, forgetting (?)
that Messiah is the Word, and if they claim to be to be “in (the Word/)Christ”, then how could they accept what they desire to accept (The Word/Christ) in bits and pieces?
I would desire the ENTIRE Word to be in me/us. I wish no part of Messiah to be absent from me. I wish and desire Yahshua to fill me to the brim to overflow! Every portion of Him is wonderful and marvelous! I do not care if I am “jew” or “gentile”. I want ALL of Him! Amein!