True Believer (2)
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus, the one whom you delivered and disowned in the presence of Pilate, when he had decided to release Him. Acts 3:13 NASB
The God of – Now that we’ve had some time to reflect on the meaning of this phrase in the mouth of Peter, let’s consider what this means for Christians. We are immediately faced with a dilemma. Christianity, as a religion, is basically anti-Semitic (see the extensive explanation of the work of John Gager, et. al.). In other words, it defines itself in terms that oppose Judaism. It re-interprets the symbols of the faith by converting Jewish events and practices into Christian ones (e.g., Passover – Easter, circumcision – baptism). In the process of this self-identification, Christianity reinterprets the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as the God of Paul, a God who (according to the Church) no longer demands or expects any of the practices required of His past (Old Testament) servants. This implies that Paul converted to the new religion of Christianity, a claim that no longer seems viable (again, see Gager, Eisenbaum, Young, Sanders, etc.). But history and linguistics have little to do with theological self-identification. The Church simply re-wrote the history and changed the meanings of the terms to fit its own need to be not Jewish.
Here’s the dilemma. If all of this is true (and it’s pretty hard to deny the historical record), then most Christians really don’t serve the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They actually serve a God whose identification has been reconstructed by the Church. And the problem is that most Christians don’t even know this!
Most Christian are God-fearing, good hearted, devoted and sincere people who want to follow God. They have had real, legitimate experiences with God. They love Jesus. They want to do what is right. Their faith is based on these experiences. They are not mistaken about what God did for them and with them. But they interpret all of these true experiences according to the teachings of the Church. So when someone suggests that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the same God who gave Moses the Torah, they react with the doctrines of the Church, doctrines that are avowedly anti-Semitic, because this is all that they have ever known. They haven’t investigated the origin of their own doctrines. They have trusted the preacher, who, by the way, was educated in a seminary that taught the same anti-Semitic point of view. They believe. They just don’t know why they believe. And in a lot of cases, when they are faced with the possibility that the interpretation of their experiences with God might be incompatible with Scripture, they are afraid because their faith is tied to the doctrines, not to God. If the doctrines fall apart, they are afraid that their faith will fall apart because in the Greek-based paradigm of this culture (and the Church), you must have the right answer in order to have faith. They think that if the answers they have repeated all their lives are not correct, then their faith is mistaken. They do not see that the answers are the result of a theological paradigm but their experiences are the result of God’s hand in their lives. God’s hand does not depend on having all the right answers. Faith is not theology. Faith is trusting Him and living accordingly. Theology is just making sense of it all. Theology can change with new information and more learning, but that doesn’t mean your trust falters – unless of course your faith was really a faith in the answers rather than in the God behind all the answers.
This is why it is so difficult to conduct investigations like the ones found in Today’s Word. If your faith depends on having a firm grip on all the answers, you won’t be able to look behind those answers without feeling as though you are losing your faith. As one woman said to me years ago, “I just can’t continue. I feel like I am losing my faith in Jesus.” Her answers were being challenged and she needed those answers in order to believe.
Let me be as clear as I can about this.
I am not trying to challenge your TRUST in God or in His son, Yeshua. If anything, I want to encourage you to trust Him more. I came to this place just like you, through the Church, through the “born again” experience. I have years and years (and plenty of degrees) of education in the Church paradigm. I know that God’s hand is absolutely real in the lives of many Christians. That is undeniable! What I am trying to do is to understand why we think the way we do, where those ideas come from and how they affect our behavior. I want the truth! That’s all. That’s it. And I will go wherever I need to in order to find it.
The true believer trusts God in crisis – and sometimes that crisis challenges nearly everything.
Topical Index: true believer, Acts 3:13, faith, trust, Church
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Thank you for posting this. The last several posts have been exactly what I needed. I’ve been struggling with processing everything I’ve been learning for years. I’m okay with leaving a particular theology/paradigm behind, but I’ve found that as I’ve done this, I’ve stopped trusting what the Bible has to say in it. I don’t know if what I’m reading is accurate or if it’s tainted with someone else’s paradigm/viewpoint. And I’ve struggled with understanding God altogether because I’ve questioned if what our translations of the Bible have to say about Him is true. But I loved what you said, “God’s hand does not depend on having all the right answers” and that God’s hand is clearly evident in the lives of Christians, even the ones who don’t have any idea about the shifts and changes that tradition have brought about in the truth.
I still don’t know how to read a book whose translators I don’t trust (or how to start trusting it again). I suppose the obvious answer is to learn Hebrew and Greek… but as a mom of two who works very full time, I can’t even begin to figure out where and when to do that! I do trust God, and I’m incredibly thankful for the truth you share here. I may not have as many answers as I’d like, but I’m trusting God to either make those things clear (that He wants clear) or to give me the courage the keep walking the lonely path of discovery even when I’m not sure of anything.
Thank you again, Skip, for today’s post. It brought me a huge amount of encouragement! Shalom!
Ask yourself about the trust you have in those relationships close to hand. Your husband. Your children. Do you need to know ALL the answers in order to trust that they love you? No. You decide on the basis of what you already see, even though you know perfectly well you don’t see it all. You LEARN to trust. Same with God. He won’t let you down. Just keep going.
Thank you for that good reminder and concrete example. 🙂
And, absolutely! Two (or more?) years in, and I am beginning to see glimmers of understanding here and there. I am definitely all in! As so many have said, it would be wonderful to find a group of like-minded people close to home. BUT, I am truly blessed with this online community and your passionate pursuit (even when exhausted and “dry”) of the truth.
I’m keeping going. 🙂
The problem is that we love Yaweh but as we begin the process of finding out truth we learn may I say, that He isn’t anything like Santa Clause. So many of our fun times and traditions are wrapped up in our understanding of what has been truth to us when it is stripped away it is a shaky place to stand. I felt like a nomad for about four years but the real truth becomes a glowing beacon when we finally see it through open eyes. Don’t stop seeking. It is a treasure and it is a costly prize. I have shared with many and experienced the pain of being pushed away but in the end who do I want? What is my true desire? I prayed forever to know Him to walk in truth and when it came around frankly it scared me! But glory for it! Good word brother Skip.
I totally relate to what you said above, Amanda.
I walked a similar path in my own journey. Many ‘safe’ doctrines that I had relied on and stood upon started crumbling as I began searching some things out. It was chaotic. Somehow, though, I defaulted to simply doing a few things I knew like praying, trusting Yeshua for things to work out, keeping going, etc.
What was interesting was even in the turmoil of doctrinal chaos I began to notice a real peace growing within as I simply relied on Him to sort things out. I just kept putting one foot in front of the other, kept seeking Him and things began to fall in to place in my mind, my heart and my soul. It seemed like I ‘knew’ less as I began clearing out all the old flimsy stuff that propped up my life, yet my foundation seemed more firm and solid somehow. It was really rather amazing. Like great weights were falling off as time went on.
Yes, there were certainly desert days that scorched my life in many ways, however, I still knew the simple truths and walked in them as best I could. Yeshua was my King, He was my source, and He was the solution to it all. With that I just kept moving in a direction toward Him via obeying what I was certain of.
My brain needs a lot of help in understanding things so that I can know what I know, if that makes much sense. Skip would write something, or I’d read something in a commentary or book and it would just pop out at me. “That’s exactly right,” I’d think to myself. It’s like I know this stuff but don’t know I know it until someone explained it externally. It’s almost like it’s something I’ve been trying to say or put in words but couldn’t.
Anyway, these past two TW’s have certainly resonated with me in so many ways. It’s like it’s all been hiding right there in front of me in plain sight. With Skip and others help, I’m learning a little bit at a time to pull these things out and identify them on my own. I still struggle with it but with blogs like this and others, it surely helps me figure things out.
Thanks to Skip and everyone else in here that contributes. [ Even Dorothy! 🙂 ]
So well expressed, Skip, thank you! I have said before that we should hold onto our theology lightly and onto the Lord with all our might. 🙂 sometimes we just need to break through the paradigms and inconsistencies to the reality beyond, namely that the Lord really does move in our lives, and blesses us continually, despite our ignorance and misunderstanding of His ways and words.
That famous verse:
Romans 10:17 – “So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”KJV
Romans 10:17 – “So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.” ESV
Two different Greek texts are used (Textus Receptus and Nestle’s) for these different translations. Regardless, the idea of hearing isn’t just the physical hearing of the sound waves generated by someone vocalizing the word of Yeshua in the Hebrew mindset. Isn’t the idea of ‘shema’ that of hearing/doing, the one necessitates the other. It isn’t that you just hear the words and then you somehow generate something called ‘faith.’ Faith is two sided, hearing AND doing, right?
So I look at this verse differently now. Evangelism via the Southern Baptist method doesn’t cut it alone anymore. Unless one hears the truth and enters in to a relational experience with Yeshua by actually doing His commandments, then faith is just a figment of our imagination. Faith, unless it results in doing, isn’t faith at all.
I’m sure the Jewish rabbi Shaul was thinking of the shema in Deut 6 when he penned this verse. Faith comes by and from DOING God’s commandments. Torah.
Coming along side is the other famous verse:
Hebrews 4:12 – “For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.” ESV
For faith to join relationally to God’s Word it has to be in sync with the nature of His word, that is with life and activity. Faith is an operative, something dynamic rather than static, doing rather than simply intellectual exercises. Faith is empty and void without action and life, without movement and operation.
In the Greek, with a Hebrew mind behind the writing, Ζων (life, living, alive) is the first word of this sentence in the Greek text. Could it be that the author’s Hebrew thinking is emphasizing the primacy of God’s word with this descriptive ‘life’ word being first. Our hearing of the living Word must result in life and activity, or doing, in us to be qualified as faith. Having enough faith, is it not simply giving life and action to God’s instructions, Torah, in our lives in a way that others can see it and be drawn to Yeshua? That’s real evangelism, walking out Torah in our lives, just like Yeshua exemplified. Yes?
Look up what I wrote about the Hebraic background to this verse.
I just read “Empty Hand Faith,” “Paul’s Shema 1 & 2,” and “Changing Isaiah” from 2011. I know I have read these when you first wrote them. Apparently, it takes at least a couple of years for it to sink in to understandable terms for me! lol
The Romans 10 and Hebrews 4 stuff stuck me this morning as I was blow drying my hair. After dressing, I had to go write it down quickly.
So, thanks again, Skip, for providing the nuggets. They eventually come together to form a solid picture.
I’m hoping it’ll be long before another couple of years in 2015 before I really understand all your saying in these recent TW’s.
Excellent exegis Michael C! Yes! Faith is our “right-response” to the word of God (both written and Living!).
And what (he inquired) is our only “right-response?” Full obedience!- And when we ~ bring into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ ~ Is this possible? Do we need any “help” with this? lol!
The Jews are not the enemy. Neither are the Christians the enemy of the Jews! We both have three enemies! The world. The flesh. And the devil. All have been thoroughly and completely defeated by One who is the Redeemer and Savior of ALL mankind. Christ (if only we could remember) died for sinners.
Am I also a sinner? Most assuredly yes. It doesn’t really matter “how” I got here.. the facts, the truth remains: ~ All have sinned.. ~ I (most assuredly) am included in the “all!”
Sirs, (again he inquired) ~What must I DO to be saved? ~
But of him are you in *Christ Jesus,*
~ Who of God is made unto us wisdom(?), and righteousness(?),, and sanctification(?),, and redemption(?) ~
Who? ~ it is the LORD! ~ MY LORD and my God!
Oh! – and lest we forget! – EVERY KNEE shall bow and EVERY tongue shall confess.. Presidents, paupers, painters, pirates and plumbers-, “every knee!”
I agree completely that Jews and Christians are NOT enemies. In fact, they are brothers. BUT, that does not apply to the orthodoxy of the Church – Christianity as a religion. Christianity is avowedly anti-Semitic and anti-Jewish. Its very identify is based on this separation. What a shame! In order for “christians” (a label applied without the theological bias) to follow the God of Israel, we must embrace that God AS HE REVEALED HIMSELF TO ISRAEL. His choice. Not ours.
What “brand” of Christianity or the “blanket” word “church” (all y’all are this way or all are that way) are we referring to? I never (once) heard of the Jews being our enemy and I was from the days of my youth brought up in the church. I have always been taught (am I the only one?) the Jews are (still to this day!) God’s chosen people.
I only have one tee-nincy problem with this. If a Jew (male or female) will view or accept or confess Yeshua HaMashiach, (Jesus the Christ) as the Chosen One or the Anointed of God or the Lamb of God then I will say “Praise God!” But if not, if Christ is rejected or ignored as is the case with many, – (both Jew or non), then “Houston, we have a problem!”
Maybe I’m a minority (one is the loneliest number!) but the Bible I read and believe proclaims the Christ as the Savior of “BOTH” (both) the Jew AND (and) the Gentile! There are those who live and breath who are *in Christ,* and there are those (Jew and Gentile) who are without.
As to “special” or holy days- ever day is a gift as should be celebrated as such. As to diet, “garbage in- garbage out” – ~ eat that which is good and let your soul delight itself in fatness! ~ I’m takin’ my daddy’s advice: “spend a little extra and eat something good!”
Eating kosher food does not make any man (Jew or Gentile) “kadosh!” But if a Jew wants to eat healthy “kosher” food- so be it! – This does not make him or her my enemy! I admire their disciplined diet! And to have a day of rest once a week? Woohoo! I’m in! Let’s do it! Rest is a mere one-third of our lives! – and quite necessary for our weak, frail and fragile “human” constitution!
The scriptures clearly state: ~ but as many as received Him, to them He gave.. ~
Who then, may receive Christ? The Jew (only?) or the Gentile (only?) If ALL have sinned, does this include the Jew? or the Gentile? or both? And on a more up close and personal level, does “all have sinned” include me?
So, what are we so worked up about? Worshiping God on Saturday or Sunday? How about we all worship Him “today?” Why? -(why not?) ~ This is the day which the LORD has made- let us rejoice and be glad in it! ~
~And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on Me, the One they have pierced, and they will mourn for Him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for Him as one grieves for a firstborn son ~ (Zephaniah 12.10)
God has most assuredly revealed Himself to Israel. ~ He came unto His own and His own received Him not! ~ The question to ask is why? Not only why did “they” refuse Him, but also why do we (also) refuse Him? He is still today- the refused and rejected Christ!
~ and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on Earth or things in Heaven. And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach–…~ Colossians 1. 20-22)
So it wasn’t the Torah teachings that created a “wall of separation”?
Would you agree that it was EXTRA-biblical fastings, washings, ect?
Or, was it that the Jews of the time kept Torah in a separatist sort of way, but you have faith that the Torah can be kept in a very inclusive and tolerant way (in regards to Gentiles)?
I’m really not trying for some “gotcha” here – but would you be willing clarify?
Skip,
Thank you so much for all you do. You are a tremendous blessing in my life. I have several favorite teachers but you top them all. Sometimes you are a little deep for me, but my spirit so resonates with what you have to say. This message really nails it, and clearly states what I often find so difficult to explain. Bless you for your obedience and diligence in sharing truth. I appreciate you VERY much.
~ He came unto His own and His own received Him not, (yet) as many as received -“WHO?” ~
~He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from Him; He was despised, and we esteemed Him not ~ (Isaiah 53.3)
Well, here it is.. – One man’s trash is another man’s Treasure- and one man’s Treasure is another man’s trash!
Yes, Jesus (who is the) Christ IS a Jew. He, was born in Bethlehem and was reared by Mary His mother and by Joseph, His stepfather.
Jesus (who is the) Christ was “refused and rejected” according to the scriptures and according to actual practice- (is the cross of Calvary “evidence” enough of His rejection?)
The Word of God incarnate was denied, defaced and denounced by the chief priests and by all the people assembled (back in the day)- all,- including His own disciples!- (~all the disciples forsook Him and fled!~)
Barabbas, a known thief and murderer was chosen by the inspired mob to be set free and Christ was chosen by the people (the ones assembled) to be crucified. ~ And what shall I do with Jesus who is called “The Christ?,” Pilate asked. ~ And the murderous mob answered? ~ Away with Him (away with this “trash!”)- “Let Him be crucified! ~
And what will YOU (sir or m’am) do with Jesus who is called “The Christ?” (The Anointed).
This carpenter’s son from the little nowhere hick town of Nazareth claimed “divinity” and received the worship of men and had the assistance of angels!
A blasphemer? We are, after all, only to worship the one true God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!
But what about the carpenter’s words? ~ Before Abraham was – I AM ? ~ (John 8.58) Huh?
How can this be? You can’t be more than in your thirties! How can you say you “ARE” before Abraham?
Is this Deity in human flesh? Or is this man, this son of a carpenter a liar or a lunatic?
If we follow (to the letter btw) the Torah and keep every “jot and every tittle” of the instructions of YHWH will we ever be “good enough” to enter in to the Kingdom of Heaven?
“IF” (and it is a big little “if”) any man, any woman, anywhere- ever could keep every single instruction of YHWH down to the nth degree- would he or she then “qualify” or pass the “entrance exam” into the kingdom of God?
Can anyone -anywhere- ever be “good enough?”
~ Sirs,- what must I DO to be saved? ~ And Paul and Silas answered him and said…???
“Believe on the LORD Jesus Christ and you will be saved –(and your household!)”
The very last words of THE MESSIAH before He died were these: ~ IT IS FINISHED!!! ~
Why? What is (now) finished? final? fully accomplished? – paid for in full. What “debt” has been paid (by Another?)
~ For He has made Him who knew no sin.. ~ Who is the ONE (and only) among all men -who never sinned? The (only) ONE who never transgressed the Torah!! ONE and only ONE- our LORD Jesus (who IS- not was! -the resurrected Christ!
The rest of the story? ~ …therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we BEG you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
~He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God *in Him!* ~ (2 Corinthians 5.21)
“Running to the Scriptures to resolve this odd conclusion will not help much..”
~ May I? Where then, would we “turn to?”
~You do err, not knowing the scriptures- nor the power of God!!! ~
~ You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about Me ~ (John 5.39)
The scriptures (all of them) testify concerning the crucified and crowned (and coming soon!) Christ!
The God-inspired written word gives testimony and witness to the Living Word, our LORD Jesus (who is the) Christ.
~ and yet you are (still) unwilling to come to Me so that you might have life.. ~ (John 5.40)
~ …Surely our griefs He Himself bore, and our sorrows He carried; Yet we ourselves esteemed Him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities;
The chastening for our well-being (shalom) fell upon Him, and by His scourging we are healed ~ (Isaiah 53.4,5)
Speaking for myself, Christ is the center. Christ is the compass. And Christ is the circumference. ~ Christ is all and in you all ~ Mine is a “Christ-centered” faith. To not be centered in Christ (did I say “church” or “code” or “creed” or “conduct?” Did I say “religion?” or “rules?” Listen again to this word: “Redeemer” Who is THE Redeemer? Listen again to this word: “Savior” Who is ‘the’ Savior? Yes, the Savior of ALL mank ind, “BOTH” Jew and Gentile. Why both?
~ Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance.. ~
Full acceptance? By (both) Jew and Gentile?
What is this “trustworthy saying?”
~Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners–of whom I am the worst ~
Did Rabbi Sha’ul, (Saul, later known as Paul) just publicly announce to “whosoever will” hear this confession, – “of whom I am the worst?”
No sinner.-no Savior. Why? Because grace meets need! Who then, may say- “I need a Savior?” I need a Redeemer? I need salvation? I need deliverance? I need wisdom? I need understanding? Shall we continue? (our needs are great!)
What part does the tslav, the execution stake, have to play in all of this? Was the cross of the Chosen One “necessary?”
~ but we proclaim Christ crucified, – a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles.. ~
~ For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified ~
(1 Corinthians 2.2)
What (he inquired) is so “anti-Semitic” about the Redeemer of ALL mankind- saying, ~ ABBA, forgive them, for they know not what they do! ~
And what (he inquired) is so “anti-semitic” about ~ He is not here!- He is risen!- just as He said! ~
~ For I am not ashamed of this Good News about Christ. It is the power of God at work, saving everyone who believes–the Jew first and also the Gentile ~ (Romans 1.16)
and ~ if any man (Jew or Gentile, male or female) be *in Christ*- he (or she) is a new creation! ~
n Christ alone my hope is found,
He is my Light, my Strength, my Song;
this Cornerstone, this solid Ground,
firm through the fiercest drought and storm.
What heights of love, what depths of peace,
when fears are stilled, when strivings cease!
My Comforter, my All in All,
here in the love of Christ I stand.
In Christ alone! who took on flesh
Fulness of God in helpless babe!
This Gift of Love and Righteousness
Scorned by the ones he came to save:
Till on that cross as Jesus died,
The wrath of God was satisfied
–
For every sin on Him was laid;
Here in the death of Christ I live.
There in the ground His body lay
Light of the world by darkness slain:
Then bursting forth in glorious Day
Up from the grave he rose again!
And as He stands in victory
Sin’s curse has lost its grip on me,
For I am His and He is mine –
Bought with the precious blood of Christ.
No guilt in life, no fear in death,
This is the power of Christ in me;
From life’s first cry to final breath,
Jesus commands my destiny.
No power of hell, no scheme of man,
Can ever pluck me from His hand;
Till He returns or calls me home,
Here in the power of Christ I’ll stand.
Good stuff Carl! Wow
All praise to the One Who gave us His Son!
Carl you are a steady flame, one tall candle, burning — your flame does not flicker and cast shadows around the room. The marvel of it is not you, (as you know) your source is the pure oil of the Holy Spirit flowing from an unquenchable supply.
. . . and what is the purpose of a candle but to cast light wherever it has been set by the Master’s hand. . . “Here in the power of Christ (you) stand”
Hi Skip,
Please send me your book, The Guardian Angel. Charge it to my Pay Pal account.
I am really enjoying your other books. I want what you have found. 🙂
Bob Hale
2105 Chambers Ave
St Joseph, MO 64506
I can’t do this myself, but you can easily order it here.
https://skipmoen.com/products/guardian-angel/
The Guardian Angel
Oh my gosh, this book is FABULOUS. In fact, just calling it a “book” doesn’t do it justice. We’ve read and re-read it and STUDY WITH IT, given it as gifts and hold it in high esteem as a valuable teaching tool for us and anybody who REALLY wants to learn about HOW to be married from YHVH’s perspective! Next to Skip’s August 29 and 30 TW, “True Believer 1 & 2” (written while he was completely exhausted and concerned that his prayers and Bible time were not effective), “Guardian Angel” and also his other book, “He Said to Her” are GIFTS FROM GOD VIA SKIP TO US.
We cherish those works.
Ditto on this book! I’ve bought 3 or 4 copies, and keep lending them out and they never come back! So worth it. 🙂 I need to get another because someone borrowed my own copy and who knows where it went! LOVE Guardian Angel!
Hi Skip,
In my study of Torah, I came across this article by John J Parsons;
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law (Romans 13:10)
ha’ahava lo ta’aseh ra lare’a al-ken ha’ahavah hi
kiyum ha-Torah
The Torah of Jesus (Torat Yeshua) is love. When we truly love God and our neighbor, we ipso facto fulfill the intent of the various rules, ordinances, and statutes as found in the writings of Moses. In this sense, then, and based on the new covenant promises we have in Jesus, we indeed have direction, aim, and instruction for the walk of life. The halakhah of Jesus is the walk of love, and this love entirely transcends the role of rule-following behaviors as our way to truly commune with God and with our fellow man.
I am interested in your comments.
I agree – BUT – the word “love” can mean just about anything you want it to when it is left as an isolated concept. The Church murdered thousands on the basis of its “love” for God. Do I need to say more? “Love” is a SUMMARY idea, just as the scribe asked for the TWO greatest commandments. Summaries are good guidelines when there are no gray areas, but most of life is gray, so God gave us the details. Now we don’t have to worry about what He or His son meant when they said “Love.”
“the church” didn’t murder anyone, impersonators did, — not the TRUE church that loves Christ.
Identify theft is not a new thing apparently, nothing new under the sun.
I have been abused by “the church” (and I do mean abused) for questioning what they believed. They have a stated position which apparently doesn’t mean what they said it meant because they went on to say it meant something else entirely…so yes “the church” to this day still persecutes its own.
This particular church one of the few in a predominately Mormon community, said that they believed in “once saved always saved” and “who so ever will”, they believe hold a pre trib rapture position and “welcome” everyone into the fold. (this is where I was not that long ago and it is still where my husband is)
All was well until we found out through a lot of questioning in a Sunday school class that they are full blown Calvinists – and YES I have a HUGE problem with Calvin. I sat there while this “man of the cloth” told a group of people that I loved that perhaps their children weren’t really saved and offered no solution to the problem – just here you go mam, your kids are going to hell…that was my last day in organized religion.
“All was well until…” Jill, are you sure about that? I’m guessing that, as you heal from the deep wounds of abuse within man-made religion, God will illuminate for you that there was a whole bunch WRONG in the teaching and “fellowship.”
While you heal, may you feel YHVH’s Arms of strength and perfect love wrap you comfortably. I will be praying for quick deliverance from the demonic works of the evil one who was ushered in to “the flock.” Yuck.
The truth?
It’s God’s Word.
Every true believer believes every word of it from Gen 1:1
to Rev 22:21. God lovingly challenges us to take Him at His
Word! And it’s written directly from His inspired heart to ours.
Religion?
It’s man’s attempt to understand truth by man’s means. Every
religion does this.
God’s Word says: “I AM WHO I AM.” Ex 3:14
“Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” Jn 8:58
This takes faith to believe. This takes faith to act on.
God has given us the same measure of faith, a mustard seed’s worth
that grows as we walk and exercise it.
That faith will amaze us as it will place our full trust in Him
and remove our insistent trust in ourselves.
“Trust in the Lord with all your heart,
And lean not on your own understanding;
In all your ways acknowledge Him,
And He shall direct your paths.” Pr 3:5-6
Faith takes us from darkness to light.
Faith takes us from the natural to the supernatural.
Faith takes us out of ourselves and fully into Him.
It’s a big step, repentance, but it’s the only choice
for man that forgives man’s original choice to step
away from God.
That step of faith is a new beginning for man. A new birth.
A new birth where God’s life in His Son comes into man.
Job knew this new life. He spoke about it.
“The Spirit of God has made me;
the breath of the Almighty gives me life.” Job 33:4
Jesus told Nicodemus about this same new life.
Say what?
“But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit
of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them,
because they are spiritually discerned.” 1 Cor 2:14
God’s Word is revolutionary, just as He is!
And our faithful believing and walking with Him will
revolutionize and transform everything about us.
Do we believe this?
If we have true faith, we will.
“Abraham believed in the Lord and He accounted it to him
for rightousness.” Gen 15:6
“This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom
He sent.” Jn 6:29
A true believer . . . believes!
Rich, you are a rich man, you are named so well.
I don’t recall if I said it before, I only know I have thought it!
Indeed, let is continue in the work of God — which is to believe.
One cannot do that except by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Believe–Defend–Proclaim
its possible you may enjoy this:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2009/02/26/power-of-holy-ghost
Skip, yesterday you said on this subject that Christianity says that you “are not a true believer” that you are ” a legalist, an incomplete Jew”. You fail to recognize that generalizing about “Gentile believers” who you call “Christianity” is failing to recognize that not all are adhering to the same doctrine, which you condemn as antisimetic. In fact many believers would say that you are a completed Jew, because you believe in the Jewish Messiah. You also stated yesterday that the argument with Gentile believers is not about the Text but about a “Paradigm that converts action to declaration. ” you state “the scripture can be made to fit either point of view”.
It would be my position that scripture is normally correct and that though there is but one God–still He is the same God of the believing Jews and of the believing Gentiles. But, the two are not the same. True they are of the same tree, but consider this. Abram was a man chosen from the Gentiles, who was renamed Abraham “the father of a multitude of nations who would become a mighty nation in the kingdom, bringing together both Jew and Gentile. Isaac was also the son Of a Gentile, called out as was his father yes, but a Gentile just the same. Jacob was a Gentile who became Israel. None of these chosen Gentiles kept the Law that you have kept as a Jew, but Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him as righteousness. Yes he was obedient unto God, as obedient as a flawed human being can be, and this obedience proved his faith, now to my point. What God has required of Gentiles is not the same as what He has required of the Israelite, and this is why “the scripture can be made to fit either point of view”. The Scripture is the truth. I have enough trouble as a Gentile doing what Jesus tells me to in my New Covenant heart, without trying to understand and keep every aspect of the law which even the fathers could not do–Acts 15:10-11 Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? But we (Jews) believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they (the Gentiles) also are.” Yes, We are both saved in the same way, but we must each work out our salvation in obedience to the Word and the Holy Spirit who is within us. I cannot tell you how to accomplish this and you cannot tell me, but in Christ, in Him, abiding in Him is the only secure place to walk out and work out our salvation. Trusting Him is the key to that walk as you point out today. Torah points out our sin. Go and sin no more is to be our walk.
May God bless us all and bring us to the unity that Jesus prayed for in John 17. Jesus came to make of us one new man, but that may not be accomplished until He either performs a miracle in us or else until He returns and identifies the sons of God in His Kingdom. I am an adopted son, you are a son by birth I assume, both sons by rebirth. I am a grafted in wild olive branch, you a re-grafted natural branch. Both of us are supported by the root. Perhaps you can tell me what it is that believers are to do? My understanding is that we are to spread the Gospel of the Kingdom and make disciples. Tell me was Paul considered a part of the Olive tree (part of the way) before His Damascus road experience? If so what would have happened had he foolishly rejected that experience as did most of Israel whom he related it to? Was Israel who rejected Messiah kept in the flock in which the remnant remained by accepting Messiah– the same flock to which Gentiles are now called? Are Gentiles who do not go out and have circumcision cast out of the Kingdom because of disobedience? How do the women obey since there is now neither male nor female in Christ Jesus?
Shalom my brother. I will try Not to interfere in the future with your points.
YHVH is faithful to reveal all that we need to know before He acts. I find it precious that this word is given to us on the cusp of Yom Teruah, the rehearsal of His coming.
Father bless Your servant Skip. This word is to us first and to all those who have ears to hear. May we take this seriously, be encouraged, and act appropriately. His covenant love endures forever and is our inheritance. Hallelu Yah!
Christians are NOT anti-sematic, — “for heaven’s sake!” — literally.
At the Second Coming of Christ, the church will be united with the Bridegroom, the official “wedding ceremony” will take place and the eternal union of Christ and His bride will be actualized.
(Rev. 19:7-9; 21:1-2).
As believers in Jesus Christ, we who are the bride of Christ wait with longing for the day when we will be united with Him. Until then, we read His love letter to us, over and over, talk to Him in prayer, listen for His tender words of guidance and comfort, and remain faithful to Him. Watching always for Him. We say with ALL the redeemed of the Lord, “Come, Lord Jesus!” (Rev. 22:20).
ALL means all, Jew and Gentile, there’s nobody else. WHOEVER believes.
The triumph of Acts 3
(The one whom you delivered and disowned )The conduct of the Jews was used to serve God’s purpose. (which was glorifying Jesus)
So perfect is the control which the King of the universe (God of Abraham….) has over His creatures, that He makes the greatest rebels work out His grandest plans.
Amazing. Beautiful. Sovereign.
What have we to fear, what have we to dread?
But your verses prove my point. You specifically did NOT include Jews.
You don’t seem to understand,– or choose deliberately to deny,– that “the church” includes ALL who have received HIM.
Doesn’t ” We say with ALL the redeemed of the Lord, “Come, Lord Jesus!” (Rev. 22:20).
ALL means all, Jew and Gentile, there’s nobody else. WHOEVER believes.” (a copy/paste from above)
HOW does that “leave out” the Jews? You know that I am unable to tinker with my previous post.
There is to be no division in the body of Christ. (Owee, that would be painful — IS painful.)
While I certainly did say Jews, I didn’t name Romanians or Chinese, or x-Muslims, nor x-drunkards, nor x-homosexuals either, but they are included the “ALL” as well, IF they have received Jesus Christ, –the One who hung on the cross,– lest we forget, if they have come to Him for the new birth — which all must have. God’s rules, not mine.
I read the writings of a very smart complete Jew, who was studying to become a rabbi when He met the Risen Saviour, and he said he thinks the problem between Christians and Jews is the Talmud!
So I went to see what’s in it. All I can say is “Ugh!” to the portion I read, — yes indeed, I see why he said that, and I sure have no desire to read more of it!
I am a Christian and not ashamed. I love Christ Jesus, I love the Jews. I am not anti-sematic.
I am anti-divisions in the body of Christ, anti-lie, anti-satan. That’s what I’m anti.
A few years ago I asked God specifically for a Jew I could know by name to pray for his eyes to be opened to his Messiah. FOUR hours after the prayer, I met one named David.
Hi Skip, I copied and pasted a letter I wrote recently for our ministry that I believe is appropriate commentary:
Beware Christian Imprinting
By Rev. Gary Cristofaro
There is a tradition in Judaism that goes as follows. While a child is still in the uterus, according to the Midrash, an angel teaches it all of the Torah. When the child is born into the world, the angel touches the child just above the lips, creating the vertical groove between the upper lip and the nose (philtrum), and the child forgets everything he or she had known. What’s the point? In this way, it is believed when a person is confronted with emet, with truth, emanating from the Torah, he or she will be more likely to recognize it and be drawn to it.
There is however, a very serious impediment to the recognition of truth. Deception is a lie masquerading as truth. Is it possible that eternal truths can be masked from the view of sincere, devoted followers of the living God? Yes, “even the elect”. (Matthew 24:24)
Allow me to illustrate. “Imprinting” Is a phenomenon exhibited by several species when young, mainly birds, such as ducklings. Upon coming out of their eggs, they will follow and become attached to the first moving object they encounter. I recently had the joy of witnessing this first hand in my own front yard. These ducklings have been following the mother duck now for weeks.
An Austrian naturalist named Konrad Lorenz carried out the first scientific studies of this phenomenon. He discovered that if he reared greylag geese from hatching, they would treat him like their mother. Even when they were confronted with the real mother, they preferred to follow Lorenz. He had effectively deceived and re-programmed them.
So what does this phenomenon have to do with Christianity? In the first century, followers of Yahoshua (Jesus) worshiped in the temple, gathered in synagogues, observed the Sabbath and obeyed the commandments of God. In short, they were Torah observant. This was the natural order, as Jesus’ self stated primary objective was to simply reconcile His brethren with their Father in heaven. Thus they followed the truth.
However within a few short centuries, gentile followers of Jesus were introduced to a “replacement duck” if you will. If I can coin a phrase “Christian Imprinting” had begun. So deceptive was this new order of religion that it has taken centuries to be exposed. Often even when presented with the truth, followers of the “replacement duck” would rather stick with the lie.
Replacement Theology goes beyond the belief that the Christian church has replaced Israel. Many victims of “Christian Imprinting” also tacitly approve of breaking His commandments. It is deception to believe that somehow the precepts of God are trumped by our ability to be lead by the Spirit. The true Spirit of the living God would never contradict His own word. Yet many still seem very content following the wrong duck.
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is an unchanging, faithful God. But Zion said, “The Lord has forsaken me, and my Lord has forgotten me.” Can a woman forget her nursing child, and not have compassion on the son of her womb? Surely they may forget, yet I will not forget you. See, I have inscribed you on the palms of My hands; your walls are continually before Me. (Isaiah 49:14-16) Thus it’s no surprise when we read the words of Jesus in Matthew 23:37 we hear the Fathers heart. “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
There are nefarious satanic reasons for the deception that has blinded much of the church. One of the most paralyzing attributes of “Christian Imprinting” is its tendency to spiritualize the practical mandates of scripture. If we continue our reading in Isaiah 49 we would find one such mandate that says this; Thus says the Lord God:” Behold, I will lift My hand in an oath to the nations, And set up My standard for the peoples; They shall bring your sons in their arms, And your daughters shall be carried on their shoulders. (Isaiah 49:22) The final re-gathering of the Jewish people to their homeland and the gentile’s involvement is an ongoing phenomenon and a fulfillment of this promise.
Therefore the leadership and staff of Ezra International have taken God at His word. He has declared in His wisdom that His children from the nations would come to the aid of the sons and daughters of Jacob. He is literally saying that you and I have the privilege to participate in the re-gathering like a hen gathers her chicks.
Have you been a victim of “Christian Imprinting”? Are you now drawn to the truth? Do you want Abba’s best for your life? If you suspect that something has replaced the truth in your Christian doctrine and traditions, then run from it. Remember this, its worthless to have ones ducks in a row if one is following the wrong duck, but following the right duck has tremendous rewards.
Have you been a victim of “Christian Imprinting”? Are you now drawn to the truth? Do you want Abba’s best for your life? If you suspect that something has replaced the truth in your Christian doctrine and traditions, then run from it. Remember this, its worthless to have ones ducks in a row if one is following the wrong duck, but following the right duck has tremendous rewards.
Yes!Praise God, I’m a victim of Christian Imprinting! Am I now drawn to the Truth? Yes, Praise God again! One of the best questions in all of our Bible, (and it is our Bible!) is this: ~ What is Truth? ~ This was Pilate’s question while “Truth Incarnate”- was standing right in front of his “blind” eyes! What were the words of THE MESSIAH? ~ “I AM the Truth! ~
We can proceed no further until we answer the question: ~ Who is this Man that even the wind and the waves obey Him? ~ (Mark 4.41)
What is ABBA’s best for my life? It is Christ! (Himself!) and it is ~ Christ in you- the hope of glory! ~ May I?
I’d like to pull over and put in in park on this one! Let’s camp out here awhile..
~ To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. ~ (Colossians 1.27)
Our response to this? – GLORY! Praise to the God who now is!!
Yes, who is this “duck” we now follow? In His words? ~ Follow me! ~
From victory unto victory His army shall He lead,
Till every foe is vanquished, and Christ is LORD indeed!
Skip, your answer about the resurrection, saying it is about life and death, the Torah says life and death are in the power of the tongue. When you constantly accuse and criticize the church which is the body of Christ, your words are persecuting the church, even to the point of death. Even David would not touch (bring accusation) Saul because he was anointed by God, the church with all her problems and struggles are still quite anointed. the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.
The way I understand resurrection, it’s more about Authority and power, this is what was stolen from creation, this is what access to heavens gates and restoration is about.
As far as Jesus being only a manifestation of a prior event I doubt because Jesus said to Mary Magdalene she had to wait to cling to Him until He had been to His Father which is a future event.
Like you said, no one of your researches mentions the resurrection before the foundation of the world. If this is true than this would take the new testament to another level beyond forgiveness and atonement. The lamb could not pay the full price for the marriage union between Christ and His Bride, the Lamb did not obey Torah perfectly fulfilling the Law and the prophets, The Lamb resurrected through Christ.
There is so much Glory in the christian sanctuary, God is not mad at the church or even disappointed in her progress, He is so proud of her and is having a great time preparing all His saints for the end time harvest of souls, through the declaration of GOOD NEWS, signs wonders and dreams and visions of the living resurrected Christ, who has given us Authority to speak in HIs name.
Dear Sharon,
I appreciate your willingness to defend the Church. But I have only one question. Who told you God is proud of a religion (not individuals) that slaughtered His chosen people in the name of Jesus, that continues to deny His Torah instructions, that replaced His eternal festivals, that violates His Sabbath, etc.? Who told you that God is having a great time with this rebellious and idolatrous institution that denies all He revealed to Israel?
I am quite aware that you wish to defend your attachment to the label “Christian” and that you undoubtedly know many who are sincere and devoted followers of YHWH and His Son who call themselves Christians, but the whole point of my TW was to distinguish these people from the official, orthodox theology of Christianity, the religion, a theology that is pointedly anti-Semitic (see ALL the scholars and the works I mentioned) on purpose. YOU SIMPLY CANNOT DENY THE HISTORY! IT IS RIGHT there in front of anyone who cares to look. You can rewrite it to make yourself feel better, but if you read your Bible, you will certainly discover that God was NOT HAPPY with any other religion that held the same tenets that are currently held by Christianity.
Please, I beg you, do not think that I am criticizing INDIVIDUAL BELIEVERS. I am not. I am one of them. Everyone I know (except my friend Bob) is also the product of this path. But that doesn’t make the path CORRECT. It just means that God used it to get us here.
Do you really want to defend Luther who said the Jews were spawned by Satan and needed to be drowned in their own excrement? Do you really want to defend Calvin who condemned a colleague to death because he didn’t agree with his theology? Do you want to defend the idea that Paul denied Torah in spite of all the evidence to the contrary? Are you ready to ignore all the contemporary scholarship on this issue because of YOUR personal insights?
As for the resurrection, I absolutely agree it is about power. But power concerning what? Go read the conversation with Nicodemus and Pilate. Power over death, it seems to me.
Want to continue?
Sharon wrote: “He is so proud of her and is having a great time preparing all His saints for the end time harvest of souls”
My stomach became sick at the reading of this statement. Really???? Abortion, homosexuality, child molestation, racism, sexists, genocide, euthanasia, antisemitism, etc (just to name a teeny tiny few abominations)… all condoned by so many “christian” denominations.
We definitely serve a different God/god. Sharon, I would challenge you to seek obedience to YHVH and forget about defending religion. Fear HIM… not what man (the church) can do to you. Really seriously seek Him and ONLY HIM with your whole heart and soul… forget about rituals and idols and man-made rules.
“Abortion, homosexuality, child molestation, racism, sexists, genocide, euthanasia, antisemitism, etc (just to name a teeny tiny few abominations)… all condoned by so many “christian” denominations.”
WHOA,
That is totally weird to think any of that is “Christian”.
That stuff is DEMONIC!
Wake up. Stop believing lies about the TRUE body of Christ, His bride.
He just might have something to say to all who speak evil of His bride.
Not all Israel is Israel, not all that say I’m a Christian is a Christian either, not all that say they know Him, know Him, you must know that.
You’re talking to Christian believers on a real time blog, you aren’t talking to a history book.
PROVE IT it if you are going to accuse Sharon, Dorothy, Carl, –and any others who are willing to be named as Christians, as being in favor of the atrocities you name.
Who do you call as a witness?
What about the biblical precedent of ‘church’ self-examination? The warnings of the prophets are meant as a wake-up call to those who self-identify as followers of YHWH. Why would anyone else care to listen?
You can define “True Christians” as whatever you want, but to deny the trends of the majority of those who self-identify as “Christians” is to deceive yourself.
If someone runs into the room and yells, “I’m tired of all the liars in here!!” – don’t take offense if you are not a liar.
bet you will sorta, kinda, want to straighten out a bit of thought patterns if you are faithful to your wife and 7500 “Gabes” with full middle initial and last name, runs around seen in all the clubs, endorsing who knows what, and then your wife’s sister says to you, “shame on you for doing all that!”
…and she continues, ‘lookie here, I see way back in the year 1804, there was a terrible womanizer named Gabe, look at the shame he brought to his family’ …except I imagine you’d be compelled to say a few mild words like ‘well its not my family’,
I’m not offended, btw, I’m speaking up.
I think we are called to do more than rip and slay others with our mouths (that’s satan’s job, he’s good at it, and doesn’t need any help) while thinking we are in such a better way of higher knowledge.
Why can’t the meaning of Hebrew words be taught without then immediately bad mouthing ‘the church’ as a whole.
There was a man who stood in the Temple, thinking he had a corner on righteousness, and spent his time being so glad he was above that other miserable man. But he didn’t go away justified. Maybe if he had just taken care of his own confession of sin, I think then he would have gone away forgiven for his own sins.
Dorothy,
You are absolutely right, we are called to examine ourselves first.
But what kinds of names do you think we’ve all been called when we did something, or said something that was “too Jewish”? There IS a bias against the practices of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and yes,…Jesus! This bias is incredibly pronounced and widespread among churches that call themselves Christian. If your experience is different, then you are blessed.
However, most of the time you prove the rule, not the exception. You can’t seem to see the fact that many of us pursue Torah – as a way of finding what is pleasing to our Lord. Is that not proving the bias? You accept Martin Luther’s ‘church bashing’, because you believe it was justified – the only reason you do not accept the comments here is NOT because of a lack of biblical precedent for saying negative things – it is because you refuse to see that our perspective has any merit.
Correction. I do not accept people bashing and I do not accept those who do it.
I walk away. As from gossip.
I read good teaching all the time that begins, middle, and ends with the Bible.
No one is attacked in the making of that lesson.
I don’t approve of “prayer requests” that give the last juicy detail either.
That crosses the line into gossip by that point.
No, I do not know how many names you have been called for doing, wearing, or using what you see as something you love. I only know I have not called you any.
I do not even call the drivers of cars displaying Odumbo/biden bumper stickers ‘jerks’.
I just know that is not the way to go.
The whole time here, I have been asking, begging, yelling, screaming, crying, pleading, sometimes reduced to having a small fit or two, for ONE thing.
Teach me Hebrew meanings and leave off the group slander while conducting it.
Nobody could do that if there might be certain ethnic groups in the room.
Christians and Jews are actually the only ones left to slander. And if the world and the devil isn’t doing enough of it, often enough, many are doing it to each other.
Gabe, I have some of your own stuff filed away, where you supplied the meanings I seek.
Not a single person was bashed while you wrote to me.
Why now do you defend those who bash?
Standing, sitting down with others who do it like a sport! is why.
If you doubt me, I will post some of your own stuff here today.
Dear Dorothy,
I have provided more than 4600 word studies on this web site. I have referred to them over and over in our discussion. But it appears to me that most of the time you don’t bother to read them. I have exhaustively examined this entire “Torah” application idea over the last 10 years, but I don’t think you could have read these studies of the words because the objections and opinions you proclaim have already been dealt with. Yet it seems to make no difference. Your proof texts and doctrinal positions remain unimpeachable regardless of the massive amount of evidence to the contrary. In fact, on more than one occasion you simply told me that you didn’t need to study all the sources since the Holy Spirit revealed the answers to you.
I simply can’t keep this implacable resistance going. Please consider another web site for your “educational” efforts.
Skip
I second that “please.”
And why do you think — where is your evidence– that we don’t seek Him with our whole heart and
HIM ONLY?
Where are our idols and man-made rules?
We don’t follow the long list of rules the rabbis made up, nor do we wear tzitzit.
Who is defending “religion”??? Sure not us.
“and when he found him, he brought him to Antioch. So for a whole year Barnabas and Saul met with the church and taught great numbers of people. The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch.” acts 11:26
You seem to say the instructions of Torah have to merit or place in the disciple of Yeshua’s life.
THAT is the evidence.
Have “no” merit, not “to” merit.
Man, I just can’t type today.
Skip, I fully support what you wrote here, I have asked Dorothy that question WHY she is here, and her motives/agenda is clear!
She is NOT here to learn and relearn but to “teach”, and “save” others from your teachings!
High time Skip, you have been TOO patient!
Thanks for sorting out faith and theology, and explaining why this journey at times can make us a bit tentative. This TW gives me peace about those I love and care for who are still in traditional church and encouragement to press on and live my own (Biblically based of course) beliefs, as best I know right now, and then “allow the conversation to happen.”
Skip,
I just read your post on “Motion Sickness” from a few days ago.
Father God ALMIGHTY, I am so thankful for Skip and how he has touched my heart. His discoveries answer so very many questions I didn’t even know how to put into words. I praise You for using this man, a broken vessel, for Your work. Please cup him in Your Hands of love. Show him how to relax in You. Give him peace that only You can pour out on us; restore his soul. Father, rebuke his enemy. Remove any false thoughts that Skip might have about You, the world, the Word, or himself.
Bless him, YHVH. Show us how we can show him how much we truly love and appreciate him.
In Messiah’s Perfect Name, Yeshua,
Amen
Dorothy,
Did Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or for that matter Joseph belive in or profess the name of Jesus Christ? You write that the believers in Jesus Christ are the one who are the real bride and who will be given an eternal existance with Him. So, I guess the patriarchs were simply born too soon. Your comments reveal the sublety of christian bias. You exemplify someone who must accept the church mantra lest her faith be shaken. Christianity is NOT the bride of Messiah because it adds to and takes away from the Word of YHVH. It Is blasphemy, filled with lies! Judaism is the same. The beauty of the love of the Father and His Son is that He knows the individual heart of the ones who are true believers. And surprise, they don’t need a church, a synagogue or a moniker. They are the real ones who are adorned by Him and His Word as THE bride. I’m not sure whether or not you see yourself as an avenger of christianity, and that anyone who really seeks Him outside of the church’s doctrine as demonic. Is this forum just too uncomfortable for you? You seem upset and ready to fight. I pray that you will be comforted and find rest. I am one who passionately loves the one you insist on calling Jesus. I am one who walks out my sanctification with fear and trembling. I am one who is grateful for the rudimentary teaching of both the churches and the synagogues that fostered me, BUT I seek first the KINGDOM OF YHVH! I do not seek the customs or doctrines of men. I seek HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS. I believe Him in the promise of grace and mercy. I am one who is grateful that He gives me His Spirit to teach me and lead me in this life away from all lies and wickedness. His Spirit leads me in the way that IS everlasting. His Spirit led me out of the brainwashing of false religious structure. He set me free from sin. The NT defines sin as the transgression of Torah. I pray that you will know the peace that He gives those who hunger and thirst for righteousness. Yes, you are a good person who doesn’t outwardly act with hatred toward Jews, but I sincerely think you miss the points presented on TW because you are in bondage to the structure of the church that reassures you of your faith, and that hides its anti-semitism. Did the faith of the patriarchs fail them because they did not profess christianity or the name of Jesus? That is an important and perhaps life changing question don’t you think? The theory of dispensationalism is the usual answer to this question, BUT then again the theories of men are NOT the Word of YHVH. The doctrine of dispensation itself is against YHVH. Dispensationalism is the christianity’s foundation. That’s the demonic thinking that you should perhaps fear the most. It leads to replacement theology. The question then becomes who replaces who or WHO replaces the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I pray earnestly for the ones who come to Yahshua saying “didn’t we prophesy in your name…” Doesn’t the one you call Jesus say that He will send them away because they are doers of lawlessness (without the commandments in the Torah)? I thinks He is warning those who think their doctrines (that are outside of the Torah) will justify them simply because they have used His name and thought that they were believers by benefit of their christian doctrine. The bride according to the book of Revelation are those having the testimony of Moses AND the LORD Jesus Christ.
To the bride he says:
“And behold I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to everyone according to his work. “I am the Alef Tav, beginning, and end, the First and the Last.” Blessed those who do His commandments, (including zitzit perhaps) that they may hav the right to the tree of life and may enter into the gates of the city. But outside dogs, sorcerers, sexually immoral and murderers, idolaters (including christian customs perhaps) and whoever loves and practices a lie.’
Christianity, along with every form of mankind’s religion, is a lie. Christianity perpetuates lies in order to confuse people because of it’s foundational desire to disassociate with the people of Israel and the God of Israel. Christianity is therefore NOT the truth. It began just like Eve ended, believing the lie of the adversary. The lie that mankind is smarter that the Creator and doesn’t really need to do things His way.
“I Yahshua have sent My angel (messenger) to testify to you these things ( see the list above) in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.” And the Spirit and the Bride say “Come!” And let him who thirsts Come. Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely.”
I know that Skip is someone who thirsts for righteousness. He teaches rightly, and his questions are shared in the spirit of seeking clarity. Sometimes, I think that you and others that respond to him are trying to evangelize for the sake of chrisitianity and to correct him in order to restrict truth and confine him and others to church thinking. I pray that’s not how you see your mission. I pray that you are seeking truth and not a lie. I pray that we all humble ourselves to His transforming truth and resurrecting power. I pray that all might be saved. This passionate topic is especially improtant in this season as we await Yom Teruah, Yom Kippor, and Sukkot. May you be blessed with the revelation of Him. May this next year bring you the riches of His Glory.
I hope I have not mis-read your comments. You just seem so defensive and upset. I’m just still confused by yours and others comments on TW. But I welcome them and you in peace. Be Blessed. May His Kingdom Come, His will be done on earth as in Heaven.
Amein and Amein, Renee!
Well expressed! Shalom to you.
Renee, you asked:
Dorothy, Did Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, or for that matter Joseph believe in or profess the name of Jesus Christ?
Yes! I covered this in another post. I’ll go dig it up again.
August 22, 2013 at 11:18 am
Salvation was always thru Christ.
Only way now, only way then, only way EVER — the same yesterday today and forever.
We ourselves can find various pieces of information about the way of salvation from Moses to Malachi.
These pieces must be searched for, because the sweep of the OT writers seems historical.
It almost seems the writers assume that the readers already know
the way of salvation through verbal revelation given by the prophets.
Consider what Peter says about the prophets’ testimony concerning Christ, “To Him all the prophets witness that, through His Name, whoever believes in Him will receive remission of sins” (Acts 10:43).
Peter refers to the prophets who wrote about Christ. But he must also have in mind that these and other prophets said much about Him verbally that is not recorded in the OT.
The New Test. sheds more light.
We know of Enoch in Genesis, but we would not know that he prophesied about Christ unless Jude told us.
And we would not know that Moses “considered the reproach of Christ” unless the writer of Hebrews told us.
We would not know that Abraham rejoiced to see Jesus’ day unless John told us.
People could have known how to be saved from the OT.
There may be only one passage in the OT that all by itself explains the way of salvation:
Job 19:25-26.
But the necessary pieces of information can also be found in various scattered passages.
In fact, God expected the rabbis to find these pieces, put them together, and verbally explain what they found to others.
How can I know this? Jesus was talking to Nicodemus about the gospel, He said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel and do not know these things?” (John 3:10).
The rabbis got busy NOT doing the will of God, but making stuff up, and putting yokes on people God never intended.
Jesus rebuke them sternly, too, — the Pharisees and Scribes
______________________________________________
And Christianity is not a lie, it is following Jesus.
Nobody will be saved by works, –no matter how good the works,– they are all filthy rags in God’s sight.
You can’t ‘do’ the law until you fail, then insert grace. Doesn’t work that way. All salvation is by grace.
You are deceived If you think you are keeping the law. You are in a dangerous trap if you are proud of keeping the law, which you aren’t keeping anyway. (spin cycle)
WE ALL FALL DOWN IN OUR THOUGHT LIFE.
*Renee, I did see some other questions you directed to me, I wasn’t ignoring you, I simply don’t have the time.
“And Christianity is not a lie, it is following Jesus.”
Following Yeshua or following the redesigned Jesus according to an anti-semitic in nature paradigm?
Your answers are always going to form the same answers. They must in order to defend an unbiblical paradigm that demands such.
http://www.YouSAIDyouWEREfinishedWITHme/pleasekeepyourword/_L
I changed my mind due to the facts of your incessant paradigm defense without room for even the slightest possibility of any other viewpoint. That isn’t a conversation, it’s warlike.
It’s just hard to continually listen to someone who is right about EVERYTHING without responding in some fashion. I tried and failed.
I don’t understand why you keep participating if you CLEARLY disagree with THE major premises in here.
Are you a self appointed missionary to ‘save’ us from our evil and wrong ways?
Are you the self appointed guard on the wall to defend against those that have, at first, were reluctant to question their beloved ‘Christian’ beliefs only to find something isn’t quite plumb?
Are you the self appointed priest to straighten out our ill begotten research and self searching for the truth of the Scriptures?
I’m just baffled. It seems like you are the one looking for a fight, with something to defend against. I don’t seem much of you asking why or what anyone believes in here. Rather I see over and over again the mockery and direct challenges that we are wrong with no defense other than the clearly defined limited paradigm you sit yourself in willingly.
So, I’m just wondering really why you continue to stay if it so repulses you what is discussed in here?
Dear Dorothy,
It has been a policy of At God’s Table for many years that the web site is open for comment only to those who actually support this effort. Just out of curiosity, I checked to see if you are on any of the database lists for supporters and I couldn’t find you. Maybe I missed. But if you are not a supporter, then it is probably best for you to move on. There is a lot of serious inquiry happening here and it needs real financial support to continue. If you wish to stay, please offer some assistance.
Skip
Skip, — no problem at all, I will go,– always said I would as soon as you asked. I told you fair and square that as long as I was here, I am here as a Christian. So I didn’t practice to deceive you. My beliefs are my beliefs and rule out over any form of assimilation.
I cannot in good conscience donate a cent, since my $ goes to the mission field.
I am, and will forever be, in good standing at God’s real table.
Dorothy
P.S. Carl, see you later, you know the place! 🙂
Listen every one who is sick to their stomachs about God being proud of His church-All the evil doers you mentioned will not enter the kingdom of heaven, so how could I be referring to them as the Saints? GOD IS IN A GOOD MOOD!!! I invite you to come into the Holy of Holies and find out for your self. If your stomach is truly sick when you think of evil maybe you are an intercessor and are carrying a burden for prayer? If so, pray until you have given it all to Jesus and then have some wine with the Holy Spirit, laugh and sing praises, give your self away. I hope for your sake we are both serving the Living God, His name is Jesus and He is beautiful beyond life itself.
“….they react with the doctrines of the Church, doctrines that are avowedly anti-Semitic, because this is all that they have ever known. They haven’t investigated the origin of their own doctrines. They have trusted the preacher, who, by the way, was educated in a seminary that taught the same anti-Semitic point of view.” Absolute!
Below is just one of many ANTI-SEMITIC expressions some Christians REACT to, though “it is written” in the Word-
Num 15:38 Speak to the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes/tzittzit in the corners of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon s a blue cord in the tzitzit of the corners
Num 15:39 And it shall be to you for a tzittzit, that you may see it, and remember all the commandments of YHWH, and do them; and not search after your own heart and your own eyes, after which you went a whoring:
Num 15:40 So that you may remember, and shall do all my commands, and be qodesh (set apart) to your Elohim.
Sadly Christianity wasn’t taught to guard this Word, but to scorn it as “Jewish”. Pray tell, who are the children of Israel? Only the “Jews”? Or, all who believe, trust and walk in Messiah.
Displaying the CROSS, is an idol, be it in the church or worn on the body. No where in Scriptures is it written crosses are to be worn, yet, these are proudly worn to show they are Christians.
Consider if this is outright rebellion against YHWH’s Word and non-complicated commands, meant for our spiritual welfare.
No Skip, I do not want to defend any of those people! They give Christianity a bad name by association-In the same way you would not want me to say to you “All those Torah observant Pharisees, rejected their Messiah, hung Him on a cross-I’m not going to say you are defending their actions by calling yourself Torah observant.
Is Authority greater than power?
I’m not defending christianity any more than David was defending Saul.
Our president says he is a christian, and the devil comes as an angel of light, what does either one have to do with me?
“Christianity” has given itself a bad name by stripping the truths of The Way that was lived by Yeshua’s disciples for decades after His resurrection until one powerful man redefined everything, inventing the “Christian” religion. One that sought every chance to distance and alienate itself from anything Jewish and anything resembling the followers of The Way.
Daria,
I’m making all kinds of friends these days:) I accept your challenge to serve YHVH Him only will I serve. I do not put any religion or Mt Sinai between me and King Jesus. He knows me.
You don’t
Thank you Ester.
As I prepared myself for sleep tonight I re-read this week’s parsha. Dt.29:(9)10-30:20 I thought about all the dear people who call upon the name of the LORD and how YHVH has given all of us the opportunity to understand His call to us. This parsha is clear and hopefully several others who read TW will read it in light of the past few days’ discussions. I am hopeful that Skip’s readers will give up the things they treasure of their doctrines and religious identities. These treasures have the same power of idols that are made of wood, stone, silver and gold. It’s interesting to think that crosses that adorn the neck and church buildings are made of such materials.
Dt29:14 “I make this covenant and this oath, not with you alone, (YHVH speaking) but with who stands here with us today before YHVH our G-d, AS WELL AS WITH WHO IS NOT HERE WITH US TODAY (true believers) for you know that we dwelt in the land of Egypt(mitzraim, e.g. confusion) and that we came through the nations ( those who are not Israel) which you passed by and you saw their abominations and their idols among them-wood and stone and silver and gold “so that there may not be among you man nor woman nor family nor tribe, whose heart turns away today from YHVH our G-d, to go and serve the gods of these nations (the christian church was birthed in Rome which is its own state, e.g.nation) , and that there may not be among you a root bearing bitterness (anti-YHVH’s way) nor wormwood (a really interesting study for another time) “and so it may not happen when he hears the words of this curse that he blesses himself in his heart saying, “I shall have peace even though I follow the dictates of my heart-as though the drunkard could be included with the sober …See I have set before today life and good, death and evil, “in that I command you today to love YHVH your G-d, to walk in His ways, and to keep His statutes, and His judgements, that you may live…”I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life…
I then read the haftarah Isaiah 61:10-63:9 and blessed YHVH and thanked Him for Yahshua the Messiah of Israel making a way for me to find the truth of His salvation which this text speaks of. I will close my eyes with a smile on my face because in these verses YHVH speaks to the true bride through His prophet, and welcomes true believers the ones He calls The Redeemed Of YHVH to His holy courts.
Is 63:8-9 “for He said “surely they are My people, children who will not lie” so He became their Savior. In all their affliction He was afflicted, and the Angel of His Presence (Yahshua) saved them; in His love and in His pity He redeemed them; and He bore them and carried them all the days of old”
This is such a precious Shabbat before Yom Teruah. The matters which have concerned several folks on this blog seem to me to be afflictions. I enter this holy season re-considering all my ways of thinking, and I earnestly seek His revelation of truth as I submit myself to Him in my affliction. His mercy is welcomed in my heart without presumption that my answers e.g., theology can even come close to defining Him. Faith is a gift. It comes by hearing (listening and obeying), and hearing(listening and obeying) from the Word of YHVH. Yahshua’s sacrificial life and His love for me just makes it so apparent to me that as I hear the commands of His Word and as I walk in obedience to the commands of His Word, I receive greater faith. My faith can not be possible without believing in what Yahshua did for all mankind which allows us to be born again and to return to the ways of old. His Holy Spirit teaches me and the writings of the NT aren’t problematic for me because I can easily recognize the inconsistancies and accept that fallible men mis-translated His intentions. He really is the same in all eternity when you know His heart rather than trusting my own. No division, no doctinal twists, no confusion. What a real treasure He has given me! He bore my afflictions, He was crushed for my iniquities (things passed on to me in physical and spiritual DNA). His blood paid the price for idolatry and adultery against Him. I am now free from the traditions of men (religion). I don’t need an identity other than “in Him”, and no trinket symbolizing death(a cross) nor building representing success (church or synagogue) is needed. I can simply tabernacle with Him in this temporary dwelling. Isn’t He wonderful!
Shabbat Shalom
Hi Renee,
This-” My faith can not be possible without believing in what Yahshua did for all mankind which allows us to be born again and to return to the ways of old.”
is profound to me today.
I have been thinking a bit on Jer 6 and verse 16 contains this reference to the old ways.
Being born again to return to the old ways of Torah. Hmmmm
Worth some serious thought. It fits and the old ways had been set aside by the time Jesus spoke this to Nicodemus. Why did Jesus ask him about not knowing these things if he was truly observant of Torah? Perhaps it had being changed somewhat for Nicodemus too.
Thank you for your posts. You have given me much to think on and pray about this Shabbat,
Shalom to you sister.
Love,
Dawn
Shalom Renee,
I love studying the weekly Torah parsha in line with haftorah and Brit Chadasha portions.
This gives me a pattern to follow, instead of jumping, skipping all over the Scriptures with no clear direction of study.
These cover all topics for walking in YHWH’s ways, and I won’t miss any of His commands.
These are so refreshing. At times I get invited to “messianic ” assemblies, but it gets so boring, same topics of “grace”, “forgiveness”, “salvation”… the only part I enjoy would be the Hebrew songs!
I see you enjoy that too 🙂 Great!
Yes, Yahshua is wonderful, and amazing!
Love and Shalom to you!
“Faith is a gift. It comes by hearing (listening and obeying), and hearing(listening and obeying) from the Word of YHVH.”
Oh Father God, how thankful I am that, as a young child never knowing about THE BIBLE but totally immersed in the Catholic cult, I had complete faith in YOU through listening and obeying by the hearing of Your “voice”- Your WORD- in my heart… You speak in many ways. (Of course, I was persecuted by “church” and family for my doubting and questioning their man-made religion that went so against the God I knew. That persecution continues today from “the church” of a different color… the “non-denominational, Bible-believing,” Torah-YHVH-Yeshua ignorant, rebellious crowd.)
Years later, when I met someone who showed me that YOU WROTE A LOVE LETTER TO ME, I snatched it up and read read read I did. I was so surprised to find out that what You had taught me during my early childhood, while hiding in a closet, were THE VERY SAME WORDS IN YOUR BOOK! Wow. Thank You so much.
Praise You forever.
Daria,
I for one think you DO serve the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. May YHVH bless you and keep you!
Read Dt.29:(9)10-30:20. YHVH warns about the abominations of which you speak, and gives hope to all who are true believers. Be Blessed!
Oh My Sweet Friend,
You have given me a warm blanket of peace today in these WORDS. Thank you so much.
Thank you for this word. It confirms what I believe God has been saying to me and I pray others. I thank God for the awakening.
Carl,
You throw a lot of scripture out there and I would have to know you well to know your stance on all of these quotes. But this one…
“If we follow (to the letter btw) the Torah and keep every “jot and every tittle” of the instructions of YHWH will we ever be “good enough” to enter in to the Kingdom of Heaven?
“IF” (and it is a big little “if”) any man, any woman, anywhere- ever could keep every single instruction of YHWH down to the nth degree- would he or she then “qualify” or pass the “entrance exam” into the kingdom of God?
Can anyone -anywhere- ever be “good enough?”
This reflects the most basic misconception of the purpose of God’s Torah (instructions for living) for His people – and that includes you and me and everyone else who wants to submit their life to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. I don’t mean to point out the obvious here at the end of a long and intense debate, (and becuase this issue has been covered so many times, in so much detail and from every conceivable scriptural angle – in TW at least), but according to all of scripture, salvation has ALWAYS been by faith in the God of Abraham for EVERYBODY from Adam to us, and that the Torah was given to show His people how to live ONCE SAVED and not for the purpose of earning salvation.
It is in every story of salvation throughout scripture: Hebrews are saved out of Egypt as an act of loving commitment, not a response to their obedience, and only thereafter given the Torah.
That is why the Jerusalem coucil concludes that the Gentiles should be taught to obey laws dealing with the weightier issues of morality first, “because there are those that teach Moses every Sabbath”.
Strict Torah adherence did not give us high scorers in the “entrance exam”, as you put it, but I understand that it gave us the prophets (read A.Heschel : The Prophets,for amazing insight about this), ho walked in such close obedience to the Fathers’ ways that they carried His heart and saw with His eyes the sate of the nation and the condition of Israel and were able to speak His will to the nation. Torah adherence gave us the disciples too – most of them came from communities known for their dilligence in following Torah.
Jerry also mssies the point, quoting Acts 15:10-11 “Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? But we (Jews) believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they (the Gentiles) also are.”
The unbearable yoke was never the Torah. It was the myriad of additions and injunctions prescribed by the religious leadership as God’s instruction to man (which they clearly were not) and the prescription that salvation came only by adherence.
When Messiah says; “my yoke is light”, He is speaking about pure Torah. He keeps the Torah down to the last letter, condemns the rabbinic and Pharisaic additions and manipulations of truth and says “follow me”. Hence the instruction that we “… should walk even as He walked.” When Yeshua/Jesus says “UNTIL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS AWAY, not one jot or tittle will pass from the Torah” He is refering back to God’s instruction to His people to keep all His commands always – Deuteronomy; “in that I command you today to love YHVH your G-d, to walk in His ways, and to keep His statutes, and His judgements, that you may live…”I call HEAVEN AND EARTH TODAY AS WITNESSES AGAINST YOU, I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life…”
It is all so simple really and so clear that if you are prepared to drop every vestige of tradition and association and risk being utterly alone in your search for only the truth, you cannot help but find it.
Sorry Jerry, but to say that you ‘can’t tell me how to do it and I can’t tell you’ does not line up with the responsibility placed on you as a believer by all of scripture. How wide do you then cast this net? Do Hindus and Muslims have the same fate as you and I becuase they are,after all, searching for God, just in a different way? If I am out of line with what I blieve according to the Word or my behaviour as a believer in Yeshua/Yesus as Messiah is out of line, scripture requires you to lovingly admonish me, to ‘stand in the gap’, preventing me from straying into disobedience outside of the only Covenant of Faith, and to escalate your efforts in association with other believers to bring me back into the fold. There is no room for any kind of “you do your thing as led by the Spirit and I will do my thing (as led by the Spirit) and we will all be drawn together in the end. Unless of course, – and this is what TW reveals day by day – some goslings have imprinted on a different mother goose, one who masquerades as an angel of light.
History is showing where the masquerade has been taking place. the question is whether you are prepared to take a close look at this and risk it all for the Truth.
Thank you all for your insights and debate. The Truth which shines through here is like taking a drink from a cool mountain stream. I will pray that He refreshes you too Skip, but perhaps the burden is what brings you to the sharp end of all these issues.
Graham.
Thanks Graham.
I appreciate your thoughts here.
Thank you Graham for your thoughts and input.
~ you do your thing as led by the Spirit and I will do my thing (as led by the Spirit) and we will all be drawn together in the end ~
~ for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. for all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!”… ~
So then, the Gentiles are the wild branch that has been grafted into the Vine? Who then, is the Vine? Is it not, Christ (Himself?)
And sirs, please do not allow me to remain ignorant as I am.. What about Atonement? Every since the veil of the Temple was torn in two (from top to bottom- yes, – God did this,- but why?) who now enters into the holy place once every year to atone for the sins of the people? What sacrifice is given to atone for the sins of the people?
~ For by one offering ( the offering of Himself) He has perfected for all time those who are being made holy ~
Since we may no longer offer the blood of bulls and of cows or goats or birds- what now is the atonement for our sins?
Hi Graham,
I appreciate that! Shalom!
So the test if you love Yeshua is that you are old testament Torah observant, just like a Jew, just like Paul?, and John, and Peter, and Steven? You say they were Torah observant then why were they persecuted and even killed for their faith in Jesus?
It was okay for the jews to want a king “like every other nation” go after and serve the gods of the surrounding nations, even Solomon the wisest among you worshipped other gods of his wives, but as soon as your own messiah shows up on the scene He is rejected along with those who follow Him even to their own deaths, even though they were Torah observant?
The persecution has nothing to do with torah observant does it?
My head aches from trying to make clear what has been clarified on this web site over and over and over for years. I just can’t keep pointing to the evidence if bloggers aren’t bothering to read it. It is abundantly clear, even in Romans, that those who KEEP the Torah will be justified. Your historical awareness of the events is revisionist. Have you actually investigated the historical record or are you just repeating what you have been taught in Christianity?
When you have examined Gager, Eisenbaum, Young, Reuther, Sanders, Soulen, Heschel, Frederickson, Becker and Reed, get back to me.
If there is one thing that the past three blog posts have proven, it is this:
“…it should be fairly clear that neither your statements nor the evidence of Scripture nor historical fact nor the faith of the Jews will ever change [their] mind[s]. [They] don’t listen to what you really say because the PARADIGM tells [them] that you can’t really mean this. YOU are the one who is deluded because your claims don’t fit the paradigm. It is classic paradigm thinking.”
– Skip Moen
I have likened it previously to beating one’s head against a brick wall.
It feels the same after a while.
It’s exhausting.
People don’t seem to want to think, only parrot.
It’s a lazy society these days. I know, I have been a lazy one. Trying to come out in these past few years. It’s hard, tough, and strenuous. When you are lazy, you just parrot instead of learn.
It’s just easier.
That said, I need to get back to my Hebrew class studies! Good grief the struggle involved there. But, ahhhhhhh, the rewards are unexplainable. 🙂
“When you have examined Gager, Eisenbaum, Young, Reuther, Sanders, Soulen, Heschel, Frederickson, Becker and Reed, get back to me.”
Now, Skip, you know their paradigm thinking requires them to say, “I don’t need to read what MAN says, all I need to read is the Word of God (in one or more of the many, many English TRANSLATIONS that have been approved by guys that purport MY paradigm thinking. I don’t NEED that unreliable philosophy of MAN’s thinking, I need to know what GOD says. Praise God.”
Until they at least agree to step at least a smidgen of a toe outside the box they are in, it’ll never happen.
I heard a story about a group of people that were prisoners, totally controlled by a tyrant. They had been for a long time. Finally, one day someone came along and lead them out of the grasp of the tyrant. They were free.
As they started in their new lives they realized they had to figure out how and what to do in many ways even though they were provided for in every way. Being on their own and having to walk around in this new way didn’t set right with them however. They started wanting the ‘safety’ and familiarity of their former captive lifestyle. It seemed so much easier. So they grumbled and complained, in spite of the new freedoms and responsibilities they were clearly given. They would rather have the boundaries of death instead of the boundaries of life.
In the end, they forfeited the very thing they wanted the most, that is, experiencing the boundaries of the promised land.
Go figure.
~ and you shall know the Truth and the Truth shall set you free ~
The question Pilate asked “what is truth?” is just a tad bit “off..” Who is (the) Truth would be much more accurate. Truth is a Person. Truth is the Person of the LORD Jesus (who is the) Christ.
~ Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by My Father in Heaven ~
Truth revealed to “who” and by “who?”- It is the Ruach that will reveal the Mashiach to each of us. There are NONE among us who are carbon copies or clones of each other. I am NOT (suprise!) Billy Graham. Neither am I Skip Moen or Mother Theresa, nor Abraham, nor Isaac nor Jacob. But, (if we may..) let us ask ourselves (both individually and corporately)- what do all of these fine folks have in common? Is there a “common denominator?” What are our differences and what do we ALL have and hold in common? It is our own uniqueness and individuality. We (each of us) are decidedly “different!”
It is the scriptures, as they are written, which are “in question.” It is the “authenticity” of God’s Book as per written by “man” that is called into question. So.. let’s pull off the road and camp out on this awhile..
Is God Sovereign? (always a great place to begin..). Is He? is He all-powerful? And all-knowing? And all-wise? And let me ask the question (children) for you- that has bothered some of us for a time.. “Can God make a rock so big- He can’t pick it up? And the answer is? God can do anything He wants to do at any time and at any place (and with any man) – and… He doesn’t even have to ask my permission!!! Why is this so? Because, dear one.. -He (and He alone) is God. Any further questions?
So, now here we are.. (centuries and millenia) A.D. (after His death btw..) and have all these versions” to choose from! Not only mulitiple versions of the words of God, but a multitude of authors- is there an underlying agenda?
Back to basics. Is there a Heaven to gain? Is there a Hell to shun? Is there a God to serve? Does God hear (today) the prayers of a man? What if (he inquired) someone were to pray “LORD, save me!” – is God deaf that He no longer can hear? Is He impotent that He no longer can save? Is God dead? (I’m vying for the stupid question of the year award..)
Who is it that hears our prayers? It is (amazingly) the very same God Abraham once knew! It is the very same God that Moses met upon the mountain! Yes, dear children- it is the very same God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
So what’s our problem? Where is the dividing line? Where do we agree and where do we disagree?
…But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumph *in Christ*, and manifests through us the sweet aroma of the knowledge of Him in every place. For we are a fragrance of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing; to the one an aroma from death to death, to the other an aroma from life to life. -and who is adequate for these things?…
…For indeed the Jews ask for signs and the Greeks search for wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to Gentiles foolishness, but to those who are the called, !!! BOTH JEWS AND GREEKS !!! – Christ the power of God and (CHRIST) the wisdom of God. ~
And furthermore- for those who “love to think,” Here is the “fenceline.”
~ Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things. The things you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, practice these things, and the God of peace will be with you ~ (Philippians 4.8)
And as to those who constantly seem to “parrot” the living words of God- may it ever be so!
Not once, not twice, but three times these were the very words of Yeshua- “It is written!”
Shall we then, call into question the “ability” of God to preserve and to disseminate His own inspired words? The One who spoke- still speaks. To whoever will listen. When the student is ready, – the Teacher will show up!
Because God *SO* loved.. “whosoever will” may come..- and drink of the Water of Life freely!
Umm…what?
Blessed are the ears that hear and the eyes that see, Michael C.
Thank You, YHWH for the eyes that see and the ears that hear. Amein!
Shalom to you.
Now that I have read through this blog I understand why you´re upset. I would like to add bleep bleep bleep bleep blleeeep blleeeeep bleeeeeeeeeep. Ah, that feels better.
I would resend the 30-day induction material to the beginners, regardless of how long they´ve been here. You lost your tech geek, but maybe we can add a “Quiz/test” section!!!
I´m just too funny. 😉
good stuff, Skip. I find I have become very comfortable considering myself as something “other”. No more labels…not a christian, not a jew, just someone taking it one day at a time. I’ve found it very freeing, not only for myself but also for those around…if you’re a christian, great…hebrew roots,yay…jew, woohoo!
To Dawn McL,
I pray this Shabbat has indeed brought further revelation to your heart. May I add a morsel from IPeter 1:3
“praised be G-d. the Father of our lord Yahshua the Messiah who IN KEEPING WITH HIS GREAT MERCY, has caused us, throught the resurrection of Yahshua the Messiah from the dead, TO BE BORN AGAIN to a living hope to an inheritance that cannot decay, spoil or fade, kept safe for you in heaven.”
I praise Yah for the inheritance promised to the seed of Abraham! True faith is that inheritance through an encounter with the unique begotten, Holy One of Israel. You are definitely on the right track in reflecting on Nicodemus. He didn’t become a christian, he simply was drawn to to be born again out of the death of religious doctrine. He was born again into the truth of the Word of G-d by his encounter with the Messiah! That same encounter is available to everyone who is willing to die to the ways of man in order to be born again into the Way, Yah’s Way! Christianity is nothing more or less than modern day Pharasaism. Being born again delivers true believers into the life that YHVH gives us. He teaches the principles of that life to us in His Law. Be Blessed as you consider these things, I suspect that His Spirit is within you and He WILL lead you into all Truth. Be of good courage precious one!
When it is all said and done, there will be neither Jew nor gentile, only those who love Yeshua.
I have been on this blog for over a year and no one has ever asked if I was Jewish if I celebrate the feasts or follow the Lunar calendar or search the hebrew and aramaic meanings of the scriptures, you all assume things because of the way I speak of Jesus.
Skip has misunderstood me many times and all of you have followed along with your Bull ring style attacks.
The principles of Torah are still intact, it is just a new priesthood and way into the Heart of our Father, and a lot more actually, but that would just wave a red flag.
When these words were first spoken by the Jews of the day, “give us a king like every other nation”
Little did they know how far reaching Their King Messiah would go to say “okay, as you wish”!
because at the end of the ages you will see every tribe and tongue worshipping Him and those who love Him from every ancient empire of the world will be within the church of the firstborn as His chosen Bride. Then even those who pierced Him will be moved to jealousy as the Love of the bride and her creator will demonstrate and reveal the desire of the nations for all to see. Will Israel still those words only reversed, we are jealous for this love give us the King of Kings that all the other nations have found? Then Jesus will say up to my beloved Israel, come.
Hi Sharon,
You said: “Skip has misunderstood me many times and all of you have followed along with your Bull ring style attacks.”
This bothers me. Dorothy has made similar remarks in the past. Well, her remarks were more along the lines of being victimized and persecuted for her beliefs. She did not state it directly, but I felt that she implied it. I asked her if this was the case, but she ignored my comment.
I would like to ask you, why is it that you feel we “attack” you? Personally, I think this comment is very harsh towards the people who comments on the blog. Yes, we all tend to agree and disagree at times, even passionately at times. But I don’t think we make ourselves guilty of “Bull ring style attacks”.
I’m sorry you have experienced it this way. I do not think anyone has ever intended to attack you.
Dear Sharon,
I am sorry if I misunderstood your comments in the past. I guess I am worn out from going over the same issue again and again. I agree that in the end the ethnic divisions of Jew and Gentile will no longer matter, but when YHWH calls His people, they will come as “Israel,” not the Church. That does not mean that many, many believers within the “Church” will not be part of this Kingdom of YHWH. Of course they will. But what I am trying to do here is not to decide who is in or out but simply to show HOW we got to the place where Christian DOCTRINE stands in opposition to Scripture.
I guess I never asked what you believed because it really doesn’t matter. What matters is what the text says. How you or I feel about it is irrelevant.
I am glad to hear you say that the PRINCIPLES of Torah are still intact, but what does that mean? Do you mean that the actual mitzvot are still in place? Or do you mean that the abstractions taken from those mitzvot and rewritten as “love” items are now in place (as a replacement to the actual mitzvot of Moses)? I’m not sure. Perhaps you could clarify. Lots of Christians, even those who say that the Torah was “finished” on the cross, still want to hang on to the “principles” like the Ten Commandments. The logic of this assertion is flawed, but most people realize that a world without any rules is sheer chaos. So Christians have the tendency to say that the two greatest commandments are all that matters now (or something like that) without understanding the SUMMARY nature of Yeshua’s words. The problem, of course, is in the application. How do I really know what it means to meet the requirements of the two great commandments without DETAILS? Do I just make it up as I go? And if I don’t have the details anymore, then how much of my own CULTURAL baggage is actually determining what I say is God’s will? Example, 175 years ago prominent theologians and major denominations argued that Negro people were cursed by God and incapable of being fully human. Today we consider that ridiculous, but in that culture it seems completely reasonable. How much of what we believe today is of the same ilk? Without the details, we just do what we have always done.
I see that about a year ago you and your husband made a very generous donation to this work. You must have thought it was worthwhile at the time. Are you now frustrated and feeling unwelcome. If so, that it my fault. I want everyone here to learn in an open environment and to feel free to express sincere exploration. I hope you will still feel that way. We are not here to reiterate doctrine, Christian or Jewish. We are just trying to answer the question: What does the text say?
“I guess I never asked what you believed because it really doesn’t matter. What matters is what the text says. How you or I feel about it is irrelevant.” This is basically my motto for life.