A Personal Sadness
Yesterday a long time reader and supporter withdrew from the group. His reason was the debate over the Trinity. He said that he just could no longer continue the discussion because I had not been clear about the divinity of Yeshua, His uncreated being and His equivalence with the Father.
I was so sad to see this happen. It means that I haven’t done my job, not to provide “definitive”answers, but to encourage all of us to be able to explore these complex and important issues without feeling as if we have to agree in order to know our Lord. I was sad because somehow my explorations and questions left him feeling as though I was no longer in the fold, and apparently, being in the fold is the most important thing.
Let me be as frank as possible. I just don’t know what to think yet. I have lots of questions, questions that are not answered by the typical Christian responses. That’s just where I am. I believe that Yeshua is the Jewish Messiah and that he is divine in that sense, but I just don’t see grounds for the Trinity from the biblical standpoint.
He also said that over the last few years I have become more and more critical of Christianity. That is true. I admit it. That does NOT mean that I think Christian believers are awful pagans. I just think they don’t know their own history, a history which I am convinced does not arise from the Scriptures but rather from the Gentile philosophical ideas brought into the “church” by the early, anti-Semitic fathers. As far as I can see, this is historical fact. The Bible is Jewish, perhaps not the Judaism of today, but certainly the Jewish way of life of the first century. I know there were lots of sects of Judaism in those days, but there were no Christian sects. Those arrived after Bar Kochba and a few other socio/political events. As far as its historical basis, Christianity’s claim on Jewish Scriptures is a lie.
Anyway, it just makes me feel terrible to think that someone who loved what we are trying to do would find it necessary to withdraw himself and his support of these efforts over a doctrinal issue. I am so sorry I wasn’t adequate to the task. I guess God has a lot to teach me still.
Perhaps I am missing the point, however, as far as being critical of Chritianity, I have not noticed that at all. I notice our shortcomings being revealed and you bringing to light, are we being who the Creator created us to be. Second, you cannot possibly know all the answers as the Creator has chosen not to reveal all to us only that which he wants us to know. Is that not how our faith grows? He has left us with mysteries to keep us stirred and talking about the Kingdom. You are doing a great job!!! keep a goin and thanks.
COURAGE!!!
It’s true, God still has a lot to teach you, Skip. And us, clearly! Who yet knows all there is to know?
As to the decision of this former follower and supporter, it is sad. Hurtfully sad because of the reason. Essentially, this person decides he/she has superior and definitive understanding regarding the totality of this particular doctrinal statement! That’s amazing in itself.
I have fear, resistance and doubts of those who sit in the seat of God and administer edicts of conformity and exclusion. How can I honestly come to a responsible place of understanding if I am not allowed to question everything and form an answer that aligns with personal findings?
I understand where this person is coming from as I’ve experienced the situation many times within the denominations I have had community with in the past. It was a “get in line or I won’t allow you in my group” reality. No questions allowed. Fill in the blanks with the responses I am thinking of and personally validate or I’m taking my ball and going home, more accurately, YOU go home until you believe as I (we) do. Then you will be allowed back in our group.
It was largely Skip’s sharing and offerings that helped me step outside that mentality and attitude. Since that time, it certainly seems I have greatly enlarged my understanding of many mysterious topics. Certainly not that I have a total and complete understanding of them, but simply I enjoy a reasonable explanation now as opposed to a uncritical, disapproving dogmatic creed or statement that demands conformity, and if not, rejection of my standing in a community.
I, too, along with Stanley, wish the best of journeys to this person and also that they carry good quantities of living water with them as they travel. The irony is they take their objections and contrary conclusions with them and withdraw them from others to consider. It is the very contrary offerings that hones my own beliefs as I contemplate their objections to the various topics. It is hard to develop learning muscles sans legitimate resistance. Iron sharpens iron. With what do we sharpen ourselves on if one blade is removed?
Sad for us all.
Skip,
That some one might be confused and disoriented by the valid discussions that you bring up, and that person cannot handle the weight of it at this time, is not your fault. I too have had to put certain doctrines and beliefs and studies on the shelf for a season because of the intense pressure they were subjecting me to. Then, when I have been refreshed by Yahweh, I always return to continue seeking out the Truth.
Keep up the good fight for Truth. You are a well respected Torah Teacher, sent by YHVH.
At the end of Yeshua’s earthly life, just how many of his followers remained? And where were most of them? Behind locked doors in fear, while the women returned to the tomb to find Him gone! But He didn’t give up, but walked through those locked doors to help them understand. And still He didn’t change the message. When He walked down the road to Emmaus, he found only two willing to listen, but he still expounded the truth to them, starting with Moses, but until they broke bread with Him (in covenant) they did not understand who He was or the truth of His message. HaShem has always chosen small numbers – remnants, the twelve, Gideon’s small army – to do His will. Do we need to mourn those whom G-d has sent away? Yeshua did not fail, and Skip did not fail, just because the masses are afraid to search the scriptures and understand. Every day, Skip’s courage urges us to probe the depths of the Word as Bereans, and every day we entreat the Father that Skip and this community would not lose heart, and hide from the glaring truth he uncovers.
I’m sorry your sad , but it is fascinating to me that sometimes when certain people walk out – many more walk in…….let’s watch & see……be encouraged 🙂 I am richly blessed by Gods word thru you …..
Thank you all for encouragement. And for disagreement. Without it there is nothing to learn from each other. I so appreciate those who challenge and disagree. That’s why it’s hard to see someone leave when we are just starting to really understand each other. But I know it is hard. Hey, I spent 40 years in the Christian seminary world, with all the doctrines and everything else. But then I looked harder at the history of the ideas and I was shaken. For those who want to keep going, I can’t promise anything but more digging. God has the answers, not me, but I have a shovel. So do you.
After reading this morning’s heartfelt response from you, Skip – over someone walking away from ‘doctrinal issue’ … I, too, was at first sad at the thought of another casualty of our Greek mindset. But then, I was reminded that sometimes, when someone is already fighting within themselves on something they KNOW deep within that is true….and they can not ‘deal’ with it….they run. It is survival mode that has taken over and they must fight within themselves (spirit & flesh?) to arrive at truth…….or not. Sometimes we have to retreat, regroup and then stand in the battle line again. Have seen it happen many times, including in my own life.
Your discussions and insight AND questions…have sunk deep into my soul – all of me that makes me me. And have challenged me to keep asking questions – even at the expense of my own family. For it is only >I< that will stand before the Holy One – not them.
All I can say Skip is that you have allowed many, many to 'follow you' as you follow Him….and don't look behind you until you stand before Him…..I think you will be surprised at the multitude 🙂
Skip,
I, too, share in your sadness.
I also share the “challenges” so many of us agree
are straddled to our faith’s quest. Being just clay puts a
damper on “knowing fully” what makes the Potter tick.
His full revelation still awaits!
Yet His Word moves us to know Him like no other book,
regardless of what paradigm perspective you see from.
“He so loved the world.” That’s a world full of paradigms!
His Word stands above it all. Almighty God has chosen
this as His means of communicating with His creation.
Right. Left. And center.
“Come now, let us reason together.”
One verse later in Isaiah 1:19 we read this wonderful
qualifier: “If you are willing and obedient, you shall eat
the good of the land.”
At the end in the book of Revelation, God offers every person,
regardless of perspective, this reasonable proposal:
“Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice
and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him and he
with Me.”
So here we are: AT GOD’S TABLE!
This issue is something that, sooner or later, every teacher will encounter – some many times over. Most students of scripture eventually get “tired” of the continued need to remain students, even those who see themselves as “teachers”.
When someone finds a pet doctrine being questioned, the choice remains: To get involved in the investigation, ignore the subject, or retreat from the discussion. Over the years I have reacted to challenges in each of these three ways. /sigh/
I have been a modern-day “Christian” Trinitarian, joined a God is a absolute Oneness group, and today I am of a Hebrew mindset that God is an indivisible unity. I can discuss all three positions. I am also convinced that God’s true nature, methods and modes of manifestations, and His elements of composition and existence are currently beyond man’s ability to comprehend. Even so, does our salvation and relationship with God rest upon knowing and understanding these kinds of questions? I do not think so.
God is. Yeshua is His Messiah because none of the rest of us measure up. Everything else is commentary. Now we can go study.
My job is not to “figure God out”, my job is to discover what it is He requires of me – and to go do it. To divide the body of the Messiah over differing personal experiences or perception (view points, explanations) of deity is an issue that requires true commitment to study and a willingness to alter one’s personal doctrines to accommodate new and differing insights into one’s relationship with God.
I do not remember who coined it, but I agree: “If your view of God has not changed over the past five years, your spiritually dead.” Our individual paths to spiritual growth may be different, but the goal should all be the same, and this is best accomplished within a community – the wider the community, the better. So, while you , Skip, may feel sadness right now, know that your teaching (from your world view), while not “perfect”, it accomplishes its purpose – to challenge the professing disciples of Yeshua to examine themselves to see if they (I, we) are in the faith, and to promote a higher level of personal responsibility of study and to stretch ourselves spiritually. When we stop growing, we start to decay.
Challenge away Skip!
A.W. Bowman
“If your view of God has not changed over the past five years, you’re spiritually dead.”
Amein!! Blessings.
We don’t agree on a lot of things, but i enjoy the postings for what they are, your digging.
We do, however, agree on this trinity thing. and i do not capitalize it on purpose. It’s catholic/pagan dogma that was somehow absorbed into christianity. The fact that you can absolutely pinpoint it for where it showed up is indicative of a shovel, no?
Change comes violently.
After i learned about deliverance (which i kind of think you oppose) i started digging more into Scripture and less into church. What i discovered was that what Messiah taught was being aptly presented for only the first hundred years or so…(i’m really bad at numbers).
I’m critical of modern day christianity myself. So much of it seems so pagan…the trinity is just one issue, this whole thing of communion, eating and drinking raw flesh and blood…really? When you THINK about it, that’s all i can respond with … REALLY?
Your download on it that you put up recently was fascinating to me, because you talked so many topics that i’ve been vaguely considering.
You don’t know Skip…that person can not UNlearn what you have given, that he partook of. Let him stew on it for a while, on his own, doing his own research, the way you taught him.
Everyone knows stew is better the next day or so.
Very much agree with you Mr. Bowman. I know one thing for certain. When I meet our Lord and experience first hand His Kingdom al,l my “doctrines” will be drastically altered and I won’t need them anyway as I will then see as He sees. Anything that divides the body is opposed by our Father. If you don’t love God with your whole being, and your neighbor as your self, your belief system is useless. And really now how many of us love in this way? Only the imparted Life of God can cause us to Love like this, and until we do our religion is useless…Sound and fury signifying nothing. Dear Lord cause me to love you and this world with your Life and Love…then I will see clearly enough to take the speck out of my brother and sisters eye.
Hi Skip,
I’m certainly no expert on the Messiah, but it does not seem reasonable to me that the Jews would want their Hero to be a tragic figure.
And Jesus could be seen as the very archetype of the tragic Hero.
He does not transform the world for the better or resurrect the dead.
He is crucified and dies the most horrifying public death like a common criminal.
Jesus was a Jew who became a physical image of a tripartite god in the Catholic Church.
How could the Messiah end up in worst condition?
Jews are very monotheistic and in their view God is nothing but Omniscience, Omnipresence, and Omniscience.
I’m assuming the Messiah would have been more like Ha Satan in Job.
A god, an indestructible force, from Heaven.
Oops I meant Omnipotence.
I feel your pain. There is so much division in this world already, the last thing we want to do is create more. And yet, how can we not attempt to show the truth? Our thinking must change as well as our actions.
In my circle of friends, family and my church group, I try to be open and honest about where I stand on various issues, including the trinity concept. Thankfully my role is a minor one, and if I disagree with a given view, it doesn’t cause anyone to feel threatened. You make strong, bold statements, most of which I agree with, or at least think it might be true, but I will not share everything lest I cause offence.
And yet, how else can we ever arrive at the truth? Should we leave the truth hidden because our current culture will refuse to accept it, will in fact, be quite opposed to it. I read the first chapter of “Coperncius and the Jews”. The first response to truth is to deny it, and cover it up, that is, find “reasonable” explanations why it cannot be true. Those in power make bold statements and when those statements are proven incorrect, they will not willingly accept them, and will sow “disinformation” to hide the truth. Our basic unwillingness to change will cause many to accept faulty reasoning. So the question remains, should we hide the truth so that we may allow peace, and continue in the established patterns of thinking?
Sorry to see him go. The trinity is a HUGE factor in some people’s belief. I’ve had people say that you MUST accept Yeshua as God in order to be saved – it’s a big one. When you shake the pillars of Christianity, things are going to fall.
I think what you’re doing is great, Skip. I’ve been modeling my research after your investigations and it has helped me in a wonderful way! Thanks.
God paid a HIGH PRICE to reveal truth and when HE was revealed; it cost HIM HIS SON.
I am a lover of truth and in my own little way am paying for what HE has revealed.
My responsibility to HIM is to obey that which HE has revealed.
I too am NOT a Trinitarian and I too am in a Baptist Church ..just take it from there and you will know that I am in a strange territory but I am in ZION.
It is sad for sure and I too have lost friendships due to the teaching of the Trinity.
It has become their GOD.
The LORD GOD OF THE TRUE ISRAEL STANDS WITH HIS PEOPLE and we too must start to stand WITH HIM IN TRUTH.
Zech.7:8-14
I know so little Skip compared to you but I admire the way you have handled this situation.
Hugs from Ontario Canada
I don’t think I knew anything but that God sent Jesus because I needed him, when I first met him. Now, I believe he’s God more clearly than ever before. I believe this sort of ability to stay on it and remain willing to say I don’t know and I WANT to know so I’ll search with all my being to know what is true – this is what works together with our obedience to secure our hearts before HIM.
Since this was a topic about who Jesus is, it’s critical information, which is unlike understanding idiosyncrasies we have yet to find information about in the Bible, etc. We can’t just let that go with so many people in Christ’s Body relating to this person Jesus. We all must know what is true about him.
Dear Skip, I had a hard time with your teaching on the trinity not because I believe in it, for I do not. I believe in Echad, I think that while we are in this flesh we will never truly be able to understand it. But the Word of Yahweh says they are Echad. I however would never want to throw out your wonderful teachings over just one thing. I understand your loss, but even Paul had to shake the dust off of his feet and go on to those that desired the truth. This walk is not over until it is over! Shalom, Judie Burdick
Are there some doctrines that must never be questioned? Right now, I would say no — but I can’t say unequivocally that such would always be the case for me. Somewhere I suspect there is an old Methodist or AOG or even Messianic doctrine lurking in my background that on first impulse, I will seek to protect. I hope, when that day comes, that my next impulse will be a willingness to examine it against the Word of Truth. I like very much what Mr. Bowman said:
“God is. Yeshua is His Messiah because none of the rest of us measure up. Everything else is commentary. Now we can go study.”
The more I know…the less I know and the less I know… That brings me closer to the author of all truth, God himself.
From when I was a small tyke, almost 60 years ago, I was taught the standard and central Christian doctrines of the Trinity, the deity of Christ, the bodily resurrection, the atoning work of Christ on the cross, and salvation by grace through faith. And I thoroughly and I suppose unquestioningly believed them and held fast to all of them throughout all those years. While in seminary, we were challenged constantly to consider context, culture, language, and other specifics in interpreting Scripture, but from what I can recall, we were really never challenged to consider the foundation of the essential Christian doctrines. They were like the pillars on which everything else stood. It was as if we challenged one of them because of something we found in Scripture, then our interpretation of the Scripture must be wrong, not the doctrine. It was as if one of those pillars was knocked down, there was a significant danger that the entire edifice of Christianity would tumble with it.
And I guess to some real extent that is true. And that is scary…very scary indeed. We enjoy being safe within our theological/doctrinal walls. When those walls start to crumble, we realize we may not know as much as we thought we did. And that can be terrifying… enough that we decide we cannot any longer go down that trail of learning and doubt, but we must return quickly to within the safe walls of what we have always believed.
It doesn’t have to be terrifying, however, because, a very very long time ago, God gave us his instruction book, the Torah. And he said that the Torah would be written on our hearts. And he called Yeshua the living Torah. Honestly, I really do not understand what all that means. But I do know who knows what it means…Yeshua Hamashiach and his father and my father, Hashem.
What I have come to understand is that it is all a journey. Just like the Israelites were never allowed to get comfortable wandering around the desert for forty years, we are also being called to be uncomfortable. We should never get comfortable with what we think we know, we should only be comfortable in Abba’s loving arms. That’s where the safety lies, not in doctrines developed by men.
Thank you Skip for making us uncomfortable. Thank you for teaching us how to think outside of the boxes that most of us have lived in all our lives. You bet you have made me uncomfortable. Every day I read your TW, I know more and therefore I know less. That pushes me more into the arms of God. God has called you to an extremely difficult task. Many people are going to turn back to the safety of the doctrines they have always known and many people will call you a heretic. But although I will likely not always agree with you, hopefully I can always call you a brother in seeking after God. Thank you again for obeying God in this ministry he has given you.
Shalom
There are many who struggle with the paradigm shift from being “Christian” to being “Messianic”. What I mean by this transition, the adjustment needed to recognize that the Torah, and the Covenant God has with the Jewish people is not done away with in Messiah Yeshua. Being brought to faith in the “Church” I was always questioning why we did not keep the Sabbath and Passover. All those questions drew me to a deeper love of my Messiah. Now I KNOW HIM so much more intimately.
What is a great concern to those who are shepherds in the congregation, is that some of the questions that arise have caused some to forsake Yeshua, in a desire to be identified as “Jewish”. Since the traditional Judaism of this century does not leave any room for Yeshua, we always need to ask why? Questions are good, questions are inevitable, but they are meant to draw you all the more to your first love, not to separate you from Him.
I can not recommend The Creation Gospel teachings of Dr. Hollisa Alewine enough, to help answer the questions inquiring minds need to know.
Some of what your wrote here describe my life with Yeshua exactly! Thank you for posting about your growth. SO MANY QUESTIONS answered by shifting that paradigm! Praise God!
Seems to me that on the simplest level we all go through what Jesus experienced at some level
We almost inevitably encounter pain and can turn to God for relief
God gives us the pain and provides the relief
Jesus demonstrates us what the “worst case scenario” could be and what we can endure
Something I have enjoyed about this site is the element of “safety” in asking questions and making comments. So much of what we claim to “know” simply was told us by someone in the past and does not stand the scrutiny of Scriptural review. As long as individuals who post, starting with Skip, are using the Scriptures as their authority to confirm, rebuke, correct etc. then I for one relish in the “sharpening of iron process”. If Skip or anyone for that matter misses the mark, then in love and compassion demonstrate where that has occurred. But be cautious… because you may find out quickly that what hurts most is letting go of all the safe assumptions and predispositions that have accumulated over time. I fear that Skip in the face of losing not only a reader but “support” as well may withdraw somewhat from the fray and be much more cautious in topics opened for study. That would be a loss to all of us.
I agree, Skip is planting seeds for paradigm shifts that are not comfortable, but necessary in culling the truth from fiction. Hazak, hazak v’nit chazek~
AMEN! Oh how I pray that Skip will be encouraged by our prayers, support and fellowship here so that this does not happen: “I fear that Skip in the face of losing not only a reader but “support” as well may withdraw somewhat from the fray and be much more cautious in topics opened for study. That would be a loss to all of us.” I do pray that he is very careful about what he teaches. He is standing at the pulpit, teaching what the true Word says (according to his understanding based on deep prayer and study, I trust.)
Carry on, dear Skip! I hope that your friend will stay in contact with you even if he can’t deal with the possibility of the “trinity” being the be-all, end-all of his faith.
Hi Skip, I understand your sadness. My wife and I were very committed Catholics for decades, involved in all aspects of our church until we started to question exactly what it was that we believed. An Anglican priest in Ontario first raised this issue in our minds. A Rhodes scholar at Oxford, extensively trained in conventional doctrine, Greek and Hebrew, he came to exactly the same conclusion as you. He further stated that many clergy in different mainstream religions supported him in private but couldn’t “afford” to take the issue public without destroying their careers. He could and did so because he was a successful religion columnist for a large newspaper as well as being an author of many internationally successful books.
A complete change in lifestyle took my wife and me in a different direction that gave us the time and opportunity to graze religion(s) to the point of leaving it all behind. We thought. Reading many widely ranging books left us both unsatisfied but you and your web site changed that. I watched and read for a long time awaiting your thoughts on the trinity, a big problem for us both. Meanwhile I was absorbing many other things in TWOT that I hadn’t previously considered as well as enjoying the great comments from other readers. Some have been profound. I cannot emphasize too strongly how my understanding of religion, spirituality and faith has changed (for the better) since I started reading your website. My quest for “the truth” continues but it is much more sharply focused, harmonious and satisfying to us.
Thank you so much for what you do and the way you do it. Keep the faith, love from us both.
“but you and your web site changed that”
Praise God!!! Delivered from the false teachings of “the church,” removed from other false religions and wandering along the path that would truly lead you (and me) to RECOGNIZE that our Savior, our Redeemer, is JEWISH! He’s a Hebrew, as was Paul and most of the fellowship of “The Way” (other labels were given to the true followers of the Messiah, too.) If He’s HEBREW, and we are to be grafted in, we’d better get on THE STICK… a good visual, don’tchathink?
So Skip you’ve had lots of great encouragement here and I probably can’t add much to it except to say thank you for sharing your life with us.
There are a few things that come to mind through this incident and I only wish to remind you of them because they are nothing new to you both as a student and a teacher.
Remember time canonizes tradition. When you touch the “Doctrines of the CHURCH” you are touching the Talmud of Catholicism. The huge difference between the Jewish talmuds and the Catholic talmud is that the Jews are willing to incorporate diversity into the canon and the Catholic talmud stands in a lock step formation. Even the protestants and evangelicals are cemented into this foundation.
Once the doctrine is canonized it takes a revolution to change it and even then most often the doctrine is only reformed into something that says essentially the same thing but makes it’s appearance dressed in a different outfit.
Secondly, I’m sure I still don’t understand what you mean when you speak of essence and divinity. You mentioned that we need to redefine them but we never got to the definition so it is difficult for me being so well educated in the reformed tradition to catch on to what you are thinking which leaves me with the only foundation in my blueprint. The Catholic one! Arrrrg!!!
Because we are all under the judgement of Babel, speaking familiar words and saying different things, and since the objective was not to reach any new conclusive doctrine of our own, perhaps going slower and making sure we all understand what is trying to be communicated when using certain words is in order. Perhaps the goal (sorry I’m hopelessly goal oriented) could be to simply construct a newly defined paradigm from which we can examine the doctrine of the trinity objectively like a med student examines a cadaver? After having read the textbook, defined the terms and definitions, they can now dig in and get a feel for what they have read about.
Touchy subjects require elementary school methodology. It is almost impossible for the average student to unlearn what has been canonized into their hard wiring.
( BTW I pointed this conversation out to a friend who is an occasional reader and he also had a knee jerk reaction and is no longer participating. Every attempt to correct his understanding of what you were trying to say was repelled by the invisible force field of doctrine.)
Praise Yah His mercy and His steadfast love are new every morning. And this blog helps me come to worship Him afresh in Spirit and in newly corrected and or constructed Truth every morning. I would love to understand His divinity and essence so much more than I do. So please let us continue the discussion.
The invisible force field of doctrine – love that. so true
Hi Skip, I understand your sadness. My wife and I were very committed Catholics for decades, involved in all aspects of our church until we started to question exactly what it was that we believed. An Anglican priest in Ontario first raised the trinity issue in our minds. A Rhodes scholar at Oxford, extensively trained in conventional doctrine, Greek and Hebrew, he came to exactly the same conclusion as you. He further stated that many clergy in different mainstream religions supported him in private but couldn’t “afford” to take the issue public without destroying their careers. He could and did so because he was a successful religion columnist for a large newspaper as well as being an author of many internationally successful books.
A complete change in lifestyle took my wife and me in a different direction that gave us the time and opportunity to graze religion(s) to the point of leaving it all behind. We thought. Reading many widely ranging books left us both unsatisfied but you and your web site changed all that. I watched and read for a long time awaiting your thoughts on the trinity, a big problem for us both. Meanwhile I was absorbing many other things in TWOT that I hadn’t previously considered as well as enjoying the great comments from other readers. Some have been profound. I cannot emphasize too strongly how my understanding of religion, spirituality and faith has changed (for the better) since I started reading your website. My quest for “the truth” continues but it is much more sharply focussed, harmonious and satisfying.
Thank you so much for what you do and the way you do it. Keep the faith, love from us both.
My encouragement to you is that you cannot ever be sure some one will really hear you or want to, when you challenge their close held beliefs. I don’t agree with all you have to say but I want to be challenged to be sure of what I do believe. Please don’t stop. and we all have much for God to teach us, thats how He is.
@Skip, I have found this to be exactly the case. Jews, for the most part, know their history. Christians do not know their history and are often shocked and go all cognitive dissonance on you if you bring it up. I suspect few seminary and bible students have taken even a basic course in historic Christian antisemitism. An attractive lie is more palatable than an ugly truth.
I’m sure you understand what happened with your friend. It is one thing to be seen as one on the margins of the enclosure, and another to be viewed as one who is now outside the fold. Christianity is bound up in fear. They don’t possess the mature, complete love that casts out fear. There is a real fear of being cut off from God, heaven and a very present fear of being cut off from the social network and supports of their religious community.
Recently I heard a talk by an atheist scientist who said, “When someone can prove me wrong it makes me very happy because I have learned something.” But this is not the world of religion, where any challenge to the established order reverberates in shock waves of disgust and retaliation. My understanding is that the part of the brain that processes loathing and disgust is very primitive, rooted in survival. It seems religion ramps up the protective system, and once activated, you are no longer dealing with a rational being; you are dealing with a frightened animal. Religion offers protection that is really a cage. You’ve rattled their cage too much and they retreat to safety.
In Rev. 21:8, the first word in the sentence is, “cowardly.” May we have courage for the work that is upon us. This is how I tried to make sense of some of the same things: http://endtimechaverim.wordpress.com/2014/07/15/myth-busting-should-i-or-shouldnt-i/
If I started reading at the time where the trinity stuff was being discussed – I may not have stayed.
It’s one thing to be “getting all Jewish” AS A WAY of following and uplifting Christ, but it seems much more heretical to ‘focus on the OLD testament’ (as some may accuse us) AND question the divinity of Christ. Everything else seems like the window dressings, but denying the deity of Christ is like boarding up the window itself. It SEEMS LIKE there is no longer a firm foundation to stand on.
For years, I learned and said that this was the problem with Jehovah’s Witnesses – they are a cult because they do not hold Jesus as God. This is psychologically entrenched. The issue is that there must be some sort of solid ground to stand on while re-evaluating other beliefs. They can not all be questioned at the same time – or else we seem to be questioning our faith in any higher power at all.
There is no easy answer here.
No, there sure isn’t. Then I go to Israel and spend time with people who absolutely love God, who serve Him with much more zeal than I do, who long for the Messiah, and I realize that the Messiah as portrayed by official Christianity is not Jewish. I am NOT TALKING about Christians who love God, try to serve Him and have experienced the joy and peace of His Son, the Messiah. I am talking about the official DOCTRINE. The statements of faith. The “things you must believe in order to know God” kind of stuff. By the way, where in Scripture does it ever say that you have to BELIEVE something in order to have a relationship with God. It says hundreds of times that you have to DO something, but I don’t recall anywhere that says if you don’t BELIEVE such and such, then you can’t experience God.
That is so awesome, Skip, where you point out that we are going to be judged on how we treated others, mainly. Nowhere does it talk about judging someone on what they BELIEVE. Jesus didn’t do it when He was here, either, come to think of it! This is wonderful! My head can still be goofy but if my heart is willing, it is still ok! I get LED into all truth, that’s what the Word says. Whew! What a relief! Hey, all you fellow goofy people! Let’s keep asking so we can receive!
Heb 11: 6 ” . . . for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him. ” 😉
Skip, it’s sad.
Let the supporter go. You are getting new ones.