What Kind of Justice?
However, because by this deed you have given occasion to the enemies of the Lord to blaspheme, the child also that is born to you shall surely die. 2 Samuel 12:14 NASB
Die – Tell me how this can be fair? David deliberately sins with Bathsheba. In fact, King David commits several crimes worthy of the death penalty. There is no doubt whatsoever about his guilt. He admits it. What is the punishment? An innocent newborn dies. How can this satisfy any concept of justice?
Imagine a contemporary courtroom scenario. The perpetrator pleads “Guilty” to charges of treason, adultery, conspiracy and murder for hire. The judge peers at the defendant and says, “Your crimes demand the death penalty. So I will execute the child born from your adulterous relationship.” Would you be shocked? Would the world be concerned? What kind of judge could do such a thing? And if that Judge is God, then what kind of God is this? How can I trust in God’s justice if sentences are carried out on the innocent in order to spare the guilty? Not only does this appear to be unfair, it looks totally capricious. Would you put your trust in a God who would do such a thing?
The story presents us with a serious theological and ethical issue. Don’t excuse the impact by saying, “Well, God knew the child was innocent so it went to heaven.” How does that take away any of the morally repugnant act? No, the key to even attempting to understand this decision must come from another direction. It must be about purpose, not consequence.
When Yeshua commented on the tower that fell killing eighteen, do you suppose he considered it an accident? Is not God also in charge of this execution? Ah, but they were sinners, so they deserved it, right? We can theologically excuse the tragedy because sin requires death. So what about David? Back to the same dilemma. Was he any less sinful than the eighteen who died? Why is he spared?
Why, indeed? Think about the ultimate purpose of God’s decision. Who will have to live with the guilt of this death? David. Who will have to face the community exposure of shame? David. Whose reputation and legacy will be forever stained? David’s. Who will suffer violence in the household for a lifetime? David. What punishment is more severe; to be put to death or to live with guilt, remorse, shame and the destruction of the dynasty for the rest of your life? Which punishment speaks louder to the nation? Which punishment demonstrates the true nature of forgiveness? The one that summarily executes the guilty or the one that reveals that the innocent must die in the place of the guilty? Which one is Messianic?
Look, I can’t tell you if this bit of reasoning is the correct interpretation of God’s outrageous decision, but it is the only one that I can think of that even hints at understanding why God would do such a thing. All I know is that God is not capricious, that He is just, that He is good. Therefore, something is happening here that I can’t quite wrap my head around if I only pay attention to the guilt-punishment issue. Perhaps God takes an opportunity to show us all, including David, that sin has enormous consequences stretching far beyond us and the forgiveness is incredibly expensive. For the guilty to live the innocent must pay. How does that make you feel?
Topical Index: die, guilt, innocent, justice, 2 Samuel 12:14
how does that make me feel………….incredibly thankful!
Skip, I understand about David, but I do not recall a tower falling on 18, can you please tell me where this is and what it was about?
Tofah rabah,
Sara
Luk_13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Sara, this is where it comes from but I am not aware that anymore context is given anywhere else in the Bible to further detail the context of the event. Although it must still have been a well known event at the time of Paul’s teaching for him to cite it. Perhaps the context is unnecessary precisely because it was a “fluke” event in which their sins had nothing directly to do with their deaths.
There are plenty of these kinds of stories that make people say, “What kind of god is this?” We can certainly attempt to make sense of it, but really it still requires a decision to choose to trust this god regardless. Why we trust Him is that He is faithful (deserving of our trust as He has earned it in our own life experiences). We wrestle with these hard verses (instead of just throwing it all away) BECAUSE we trust Him.
I think along with Skip, that the punishment went in the right direction. If the child had lived, it would have been a cruel sentence for that child, too. So that would have been mercy. I also firmly believe that I have seen in scripture that our choices affect our children. We can curse or bless them with our choices. To have a child out of wedlock activates the bastard’s curse, and the way I read it, it is a perpetual curse. One that can be reversed, or taken responsibility for, or course, but is certainly, the way I read scripture, no light matter. And yes, the record tells us that Yeshua is the product of bastards, so all of us who are the product of unwedlock pregnancies are in good company, but I think that it may not be a bad idea to go before the throne and confess the same in the interests of not just my life, but that of my children’s, too. I have had enough of feeling alienated and isolated and abandoned, too. Outside the commonwealth is no fun!
It also includes Uriah’s death. It caused me to consider the holocaust within this context …
One thing jumps immediately to mind: The Bible says we die for our own sins.
Deuteronomy 24:16 Fathers must not be put to death for what their children do, nor children for what their fathers do; each must be put to death for his own sin.
“Ezekiel 18:19-20: Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not suffer for his father’s iniquity?’ When the son does what is just and right, and observes all my statutes and carries them out, he will surely live. The person who sins is the one who will die. A son will not suffer for his father’s iniquity, and a father will not suffer for his son’s iniquity; the righteous person will be judged according to his righteousness, and the wicked person according to his wickedness.
absolutely! Which is one reason why the previous discussion about foreknowledge CANNOT mean we inherit guilt from the prior decisions of other people. Consequences? Yes. Guilt. Not a chance.
But have we given any thought to Deut. 23:2 that a mamzer or one of a forbidden union cannot enter into the assembly of the Lord? Since God promised David that his heirs would sit the throne of Israel, and this child could not (and would also be the subject of scorn and shame), then God needed to take him and fulfil his promise through another child. Note that the second act, when David went in to comfort Bathsheba after the child’s death, was not an illegal union, because the two had become one flesh; and you can see the love of God in His name (Jedidiah, beloved of the Lord) given to the baby Solomon in a message by Nathan the prophet. It wasn’t an act of punishment or judgment, but an act of mercy and the fulfilment of God’s word of promise to David and Israel.
Absolutely consequences. What do you think I was talking about?
Judgment (the GUILT part) cannot be reversed, can it? But consequences can be ameliorated, and are, all the time.
Guilt can be removed. When it is, the perpetrator is judged “not guilty” (different than “innocent”). Consequences can be ameliorated but not removed in the same sense that guilt can be removed. Confusing the two causes serious errors.
OK. Guilt is ‘removed’ by being transferred, right? I cannot erase my own guilt. Which is to say, I cannot turn back to innocence by any of my own efforts, but it can be taken from me. Even with the goats, however, guilt just got turned out into the wastelands, and even God throws it SOMEWHERE (the depths of the sea), and Yeshua bore it for me, too. The way I read Joel 2:25, however, the years the locusts have eaten (consequences) CAN be restored. Job got it all back, and then some. I got the devastation of my life, if not reversed, then at least made as though my whole previous life was all good. It was REDEEMED. Now, I do not understand redemption. At all. It happened to me, and I still do not know it!
Is it fair to say that guilt is transferred and consequences can be redeemed? I really do not want to be confused or to confuse anybody else, either! And, of course, I am limited in that I have to speak to these things from within my own perspective: the perspective that God or others may have not being of much use to me. Thank you for all you patience and clarification! Anybody!
Did Job really get it all back? Do more children replace children who have died? I don’t think so. Consequences can be ameliorated, but that is not the same as erased. Does the pain of divorce go away because someone remarries? Does an insult disappear because of an apology? Forgiveness is not the same as “it never happened.”
Good clarification. Thank you for dancing with me through this. I really want to get it straight. All tears do not get wiped from our eyes until all things are restored, and that is most certainly later. I walk with scars now, but then only He will be left to walk with scars (consequences), may His Name be praised! Consequences get ameliorated when we learn the lesson, right? And sometimes the lesson is for others, too. It is most certainly not all about me, I know! Halleluah! Sometimes the junk in my life is about somebody else! Well, may as well laugh as cry….
The guilt thing is so far over my head I don’t think I can even try to figure that one out, though. All I know is when it is there, and when it is gone, are like night and day for me. That is all I know. I am glad YHVH is responsible for that end of the stick! Praise His Holy Name!
When this stays in the realm of the theoretical it’s an interesting discussion over morning coffee. When it touches your personal life it’s less glib.
Our five year old granddaughter has a rare brain cancer that has a 100% mortality rate.
How does today’s Word apply in this case?
Is this because someone has sinned? If so, who? What was the sin? If it is because of someone’s sin would God reveal it and allow for repentence? If not, why not?
Some ideas, perhaps like this one, are easy to acquiesce to when when you see no evidence of it in your own life. When your problem can be solved by money and a community generously comes together to gift you with money that is a beautiful thing.
My wife and I could give our son and daughter in law a check for $100,000,000 and it wouldn’t save their daughter. This has never been successfully treated.
So, I’d be interested in moving beyond the theoretical here.
Is she sick because of someone’s sin? Is God giving this to her? Is it just random chance because the world is messed up? This ministry teaches that randomness is not the biblical worldview. If that is the case tell me please why Anna has been chosen?
Better yet, move beyond the theoretical and tell me why Anna has been chosen and your child, grandchild, spouse, or you have not been “non-randomly” chosen for Anna’s situation. Does that make you uncomfortable? I’m OK with that. Let your answer be as specific as you can please.
Does my post seem to evidence anger as well as legitimate questions? Again, I’m OK with that.
It is easy to be high minded and theoretical when you think you’re safe. This teaching is not theoretical to me.
I’d sincerely like thoughtful replies to my questions.
Daniel, I feel a heaviness on my heart from your words. Who can really answer such questions but Abba alone. The thought comes to me that you might ask the Father, “What do You want to be for me now, in this situation, that You could not be to me before this?”. No crisp theology or contextually accurate translation can speak to the anguish you must feel for your granddaughter. These are impossibly hard questions from our perspective alone. I have 3 granddaughters and I cannot imagine the weight that you must have on your heart. I honestly have no idea what you are feeling, but I will pray for you that the HS would give you insight to these question. Thank you for this sobering glance at your reality.
2 scriptures come to mind:
John 6:67-68
Then Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also want to go away?”
But Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
John 16:13-14
However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.
Yes, NOT THEORETICAL. It wasn’t for David either. NO, she is not guilty, neither are the parents or the grandparents or ANYONE else. That is what Yeshua said. I believe him. But I do not understand WHY this happens because I do not have the insight of the Messiah to tell me why. All I know is that it is NOT about guilt and the rest is about purposes that I have no idea about. I know the world is broken, unfair, horrible, but somehow it is still being redeemed. And I know the innocent suffer. I see it all the time as I travel. Why? I wish I could tell you, but then it would be theory.
Dear Daniel:
You are going through the most terrible time, and I’m sure I speak for all here when I say our hearts break for you and your family. I would be angry, too. There is no answer that can assuage such pain. We just don’t know why some are afflicted, and others, who seem to go out of their way to defy God, are left unscathed. I worked for 35 years as an RN and have struggled with this same question. After some years, I began to recognize these losses as evidence that the human race is devolving. In every generation there are between 60 and 200 mutations in our gene cells; sometimes the mutation is not noticed, sometimes it is evident immediately with an anomaly, and sometimes it shows up later as a cancer or other illness that is incompatible with life. The family of the patient always struggles with the same questions: was it something we did, was there a reason this happened? There is no answer, except to point to the grandeur and complexity of God’s creation. Modern medicine has become so arrogant. We think we can figure out all of life with enough time. We can’t. The truth is, we know so little about how this human organism works; both life and death serve to remind us of how little we are and how great is our God.
I know that nothing right now will remove your pain. But please know that, as a community here, we wish we could do something tangible to lift your grief. We do care and we are here to listen, if and when talking helps.
Dear Abba,
I am joining my prayer with Daniel’s as he prays for his grand daughter, Anna. I am thanking you for her life and the blessing that it is for her family. I am praising You for Your son, Daniel, who is faithfully standing before You as her representative, and I am praying for her parents, who are the ones who are her direct representatives before You. I am joining my voice with Daniel’s as he struggles to find where he is with You in this. I ask that You answer him as he wants to know how to pull this load, and in what direction. He wants to pull with you, instead of just wringing his hands. Please give him this direction. Please answer his heart. You made us to want to know why, and You are the One Who pointed out to us in Hosea and Isaiah that Your people are perishing for lack of knowledge, and I hear Daniel agreeing with You. I think that he does need to know why, in agreement with these verses. Even David needed to know. I know I would.
I want to join my faith with his, as little Anna continues to bless those around her with her life, far beyond the predictions for her. I want to ask that You increase that faith, and direct that anger, too. We have to know who to blame, and Who to glorify. I am praying that all anger and bitterness in this family be turned away from the innocent: from themselves, each other, and from You, too. There is a villain on the ground here who is seeking to kill, steal and destroy!
And lastly, I am praying for Daniel and Anna’s parents, as they stand in the gap for their child before You. I am praying for clean hands and a pure heart for them, as they raise their petitions before the throne. I am praying with them that You, the Searcher of hearts, will faithfully show them any bitterness towards themselves, or others, or You, including in their generations, so there will be nothing separating them from resting in Your care. May You fill their hearts instead with gratitude towards You for Your faithfulness. I am praying for their fear. May they stand strong against that fear that stalks them and know that You do not want them to fear, and have not given them a burden of fear to carry. May they not fall into the temptation to pick it up AT ALL. You do not order the chaos of death and destruction on the innocent. The time of judgment is at the end of the world, not now! It is the enemy who is already judged who seeks to share his judgment with us. I am NOT in agreement with that! They do NOT have to agree with death! David prayed that he hated his enemies with perfect hatred, and if death is not little Anna’s enemy, then I do not know what is. I am praying that she may live, and declare Your goodness in the land of the living.
I am standing with this precious family against this death and destruction, this oppression that is NOT FROM YOU, because You never give us anything like that, and You add no sorrow with Your gifts. I am standing against all bitterness or fear with them, all feelings of rejection or abandonment, because they are not true! I am praying most of all for their faith in You, NO MATTER WHAT; that they perfect their trust in You, and thus clear the way for Your perfect will for Anna. And I am praising you for Anna; Father, we all need her! Please keep her precious self for our sake, too!
In the precious Name of Your also innocent Son, Yeshua, Who You lost on that cross for us, may this family lay down the cross of death and despair that has been hurled at them, and choose to pick up the other half of the winning cross that You bore FOR THEM instead. Amen.
Love, Laurita
Daniel, it is impossible to share your grief and/or answer your questions. Suffering it seems is part of the fabric of life, and perhaps will be less of a burden in the World to Come. Death, while it seems horrific now, may in the end have some reason that will ultimately make ‘sense’. I don’t think so, but like everyone else, I could be wrong.
While I am familiar with many losses in my life including two very small (under two) cousins, born sequentially to my aunt and uncle, who slowly died from Tay Sachs (a genetic disease), it is impossible to ‘feel’ or comprehend what you are going through. Even as a grandmother of five, I cannot imaging what it would be like walking through that with them and my children.
That is why, to those that suffer, conversations like these usually seems theoretical and not practical or even helpful. Unless one has walked in your shoes, one cannot know the nuance of God’s ways in that situation, nor pose appropriate answers, if in fact there are any. It is almost torture to think of the whys in the case of an innocent’s death, yet, I believe there are things that we might not want to know for perhaps…that specific knowledge would make it worse.
Would it be possible for you to reframe the why (God is causing this loss) questions into ‘good’ (what good will God bring out of it) questions…meaning, how can this loss be transformed into a witness for good, rather than more profound loss? (rhetorical question). My mother died on August 21. I am still processing that one. She was 87 and had an incredible fear of death because of trauma as a child. But God in His unbounding Grace, let her sleep through the last week of life while he slowly removed the strength of her heart. Literally went from 35% to 10% to death in 7 days. She didn’t know that she was dying at all, she just went to sleep and never woke up…I thank Him everyday for that Grace…I will miss her profoundly. BUT everyday, there is something that God shows me and tells me that brings her life to mind. She lives forever through me, my children and grandchildren…she is part of the US that God has created, past present and future. I am available to talk if you like, just email me, and I would be happy to call you.
Justice hum, you know Skip the idea that Messiah died, an innocent victim fits the discription of the child by adultry in Davids case. So did Messiah become guilty? if so was the child by David’s adultrous affair guilty. I guess what I am trying to get to the bottom of is, who is ultimatly guilty and who ultimatly bears the penalty of that guilt? What about the two goats on Day Of Atonement, which one was guilty, which one payed the penalty? Since I’m the one Justified, Sanctified and accounted debt free, who bears the guilt and who bears the penalty, ” For the wages of sin is death”?
Andy
Daniel, My heart is crushed for you and your family-I wish there were something, anything I could say or do to bring healing and restoration to each of you-I will carry this carefully and continue to pray, insistent prayers, that His Life come to you and your precious grandchild, and fill you in ways you’ve never known. If all the words ever spoken in all the world could be gathered together, studied, pulled apart and restudied we could still not wrap our finite brains around God….He is much more than we can study or explain…if we could nail down a good definition of Him or why He does what He does, then we could take over His position-men are so foolish in all of their wisdom. It’s not going to happen. I do know…we live on a battlefield..the war over it began immediately…the enemy wants it and since he can’t kill God and take it over completely, he works overtime to make God seem less kind, loving and trustworthy then He truly is…he loves doubt and unbelief….it keeps him motivated to continue and he will try to bring that doubt, fear, anger and unbelief the major driving factor in all our lives. The really sad part is that too many believe they can box God in with their wisdom – describe Him completely and everything about Him-laying blame, confusion and questions over His Beauty. I don’t hear that in you, but I hear it shouted from the housetops much too often. I don’t understand-I don’t understand why this precious child is suffering….but I will continue to pray battlefield prayers for her and for your family – and I pray that He reveals Himself in a way that will heal all the pain-physical, and emotional.
Father- PLEASE heal this child! I am asking for Your covering of the Blood of Christ over every aspect of this horrible circumstance – Show Your Glory and shut the mouths of the lions!!
To all of you, please accept my sincere thanks for your responses.
Like many who follow the things Skip and others teach I am more isolated than in the past. This forum is a place to think outloud and get feedback.
Thanks.
Heads We Win, – Tails We Win!
~ For whether we live, we live unto the LORD; and whether we die, we die unto the LORD: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the LORD’s! ~
The answer to this seeming “dilemma,” is (again) the Word of God: ~ for me, to live is Christ..- and to die is gain!” (Philippians 1.21)
Death for the Christian, for the one who has been born from Above, for the one who knows he or she is a child of the Most High, is but a doorway. The door marked “exit” on this side of the grave, but “enter here” on the other. Death, dear friends, is truly a defeated foe.
I too, love my wife, my children, my family and my friends, but as for “death” itself?- No fear. Once a morbid subject, but now that the Grave has been conquered by the Lamb, we can rest assured, we also will also reign with Him!
Yes, I too have felt the “sting of death” (death of a child) and a mother and family, and friends (all of the above) but I believe the holy (God-inspired) scriptures and the amazing comfort they offer us, with words such as: ~ Blessed are the dead who die in the LORD from now on ~
There is going to be a mass resurrection of believers all over the world that will soon take place. It is going to be big! We, the ones belonging to the Shepherd, depending upon whether or not we are living or are already dead – will be “caught away” (arpagēsometha) to be with our LORD. (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18)
No one, (no, not one) is able to sin and “get away with it!” ~ We may “rest assured” ~ your sin will find you out! “If” we have sinned? (ha!) “Since” we (all) have sinned, (sin is transgression of the Law) What can we do about this? (if anything). What is the solution for sin? (Yes, I’m asking!)
Let us also remember, the Potter has full rights and privileges over the “clay!” In life, or in death.. God is good! – (All the time!)
P.S. – His eye is on the sparrow! ~ Fear not, little flock! ~
~ Do not fear, for I have redeemed you; I have summoned you by name; you are Mine! ~ (Isaiah 43.1)
~ Now thanks be unto God, who always causes us to triumph in the Messiah and makes manifest the savour of His knowledge by us in every place ~
“We do not pray for victory, – we pray from victory.”
Joh 9:1 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.
Joh 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?
Joh 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.
Daniel, I hesitate to try to comfort you for fear of saying something obtuse in a heartbreaking circumstance I have no experience in, but I shall try. This man Jesus healed was but a small “type” of what God will ultimately do for all His children. And not just a temporary cure ending in blindness and death again, but a glorious and immortal cure that will reunite your family for all the eons in a happy circumstance beyond your wildest dreams.
Unbelievers believe life forever ends at death, but we have, not a “hope”, but a certain and sure expectation that we will be resurrected. I do not doubt that that seems of little comfort now but it is infinitely more to look forward to than atheists have. They surely are to be pitied. Our suffering in this life is only “for a little while” if we can truly embrace and realize our faith in what we have been promised.
Rev_21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Dan, I appreciate your post.
In a response to Daniel, I would have reached for similar Scriptures. Not that they are an answer that has an immediate solution to Daniel’s family tragedy. Life is NOT fair. Millions are dealt unbelievably tough cards.
I am glad that Skip mentioned the examples of time and chance found at beginning of Luke 13. There is found the story of the 18 people who accidentally dies when a tower at Siloam fell on them. Time and chance! My own family were touched a little by such an incident during the recent Napa California area earthquake as we live in that area. A co worker friend of my wife has a lovely 12 year old son who begged his mom to allow him to have a friend over for a Saturday night sleep over on the night of the earthquake. The child would normally have slept in his bedroom but with a friend over, the kids slept in front of a big stone fireplace in the living room. During the quake, the fireplace came crashing down and crushed the pelvis of this lady’s son. The visiting kid avoided injury. Recovery will be long and painful – doctors are yet unsure if this boy will ever walk again. No sin here – just time and chance!
That was time and chance close to home for me. But all the similar time and chance accidents and tragedies we hear of on the news every day are little consolation to those like Daniel when it hits us personally. It is often hard to even pray in these personal “unjust” trials as we ponder – why me,God??
For me, the great hope of the resurrection is our best meditation and hope in very trying circumstances – like that of Daniel. For the follower of Messiah, it is crucial to have the mindset of a pilgrim. When we buy into the concept of a future Kingdom of God, it becomes a little easier to see this age as a transition to the age when pain and tragedy and unfairness and death will be no more, as Dan pointed out in quoting from Rev. 21 above
In referring to Shiloam in His teaching in Luke 13, Yahshua’s point was to remind his listeners (us too!) that they could be a victim of time and chance and get caught unprepared to meet the KING as He tells us that He will come SUDDENLY (and unexpectedly as far as the world is concerned ). His teaching was a call to repentance (Luke 13:5) Over and over we find Him warning first fruits not to subject their salvation calling to time and chance! Remember the parable of the 10 maidens in Matt.25. Five of them did not take heed and were caught unready? I do not know but I have heard preachers speculate that this parable could indicate that 50% of body of Messiah will be unprepared to meet the KING. A sobering thought!
I will take a risk and mention a thought for Daniel, that I used on a very close friend who later died of cancer about 5 years ago. Unfortunately, my friend Hector did not like what I had to say, thought I thought it had some validity! I asked him if he agreed that we are most likely in the end of the age with Messiah due to return in possible 5,10 or 15 years? When he responded “YES”, I told him that he could look forward to being quickly reunited with his family and friends in the resurrection of the saints in a few years. Mature believer that he was – the apostle Paul was ready to go “and be with the LORD” but Hector was not quiet ready to embrace that thought at the time. But before he finally died, he did find peace and resignation.
I am late getting in on the discussion of God allowing King David’s child to die. Skip called it “an outrageous decision” on God’s part. I wonder? Sure, one could possibly justify saying that about the tragic story. Could we not also ask why God did not prevent Cain from murdering righteous Abel? Or why He did not prevent the stoning of Stephen in Acts 7? Going deeper, we could ask why the Sovereign God did not prevent Adam and Eve from being tempted and saved us all from this whole sorry mess we call human life?
Getting back to King David, I agree, Skip, David deserved the death penalty but God extended mercy to him probably because David had not yet sired the line that would produce Messiah. Meanwhile, as we might expect God let David take the “curse” for his behavior. Nathan the prophet delivered that bad news to David as recorded a few verses earlier in 2 Sam.12 . God told David that he was producing a totally dysfunctional family that would cause him much heartache. In modern vernacular we say: “when you play (sin) you pay!
I propose that God actually showed great mercy to the child that died. When we read the stories of David’s sons Adonijah and Absalom and Amnom and the rape of their sister Tamar and the family murders, as a father myself, sad to say, David’s family is NOT a family I would want my daughter a part of. I suspect that is where God is coming from. In His wisdom and mercy He allowed David’s child to die. That child will be resurrected into a beautiful world and will NEVER know war or rape or murder or painful dysfunctional family life. FATHER knows best!
Shalom
So Skip, what you are telling me is that everyone in the community has a purpose that is organic within the community and is only secondarily an individual. What David did affects the entire community past, present and future. Just like in 2 Sam. 21, when a person acting for the community (which is everyone including those like Akin) does something that requires justice, it is God who chooses how that justice will be meted out. WE do not get to second guess God’s justice…it is always Just…
Our view of what ‘should’ or should not happen cannot be based on the Greek view, whereby I decide and then I believe. It must be based on the Hebraic view whereby God is the one who brings forth Truth, and it is my purpose to understand it and do it…
Therefore this is not about an innocent child dying. The child is just as much an organic part of the community and as such lives with the knowledge that no matter what happens, God is just, and not matter what happens to the child was always fair. When and if God decides to share the ‘why’ we will know why it was just or fair, but in the meantime God is still God and we are still called to His purposes not our own. How do we know that God is not sitting in the heavens weeping about what HE had to do because of US. As Israelites, we are just a guilty as David, and just as culpable for that child’s death.
Yes. With some further discussion of the difference between “just” and “fair.” And the fact that I might not ever “understand” but it does not change the reality that God is just.
So that begs the questions, whose justice? Whose fairness? Are just and fair equal in meaning to everyone? Do the words Just and Fair in English have Hebrew equivalents? Do I have the right to even question or doubt that God is fair? or that any action He takes might not be fair, in MY sense of the word…
Who is the one who determines whether or not something is fair, if in fact there is such a thing in the Hebrew mind? Fairness, it seems, comes from an assumption that God will do things the way I like them, however, MY sense of fairness must bow to His for He is far greater than me. Who is God anyway?
Sorry, all these questions….and more questions…and only a few answers.
https://skipmoen.com/2012/08/05/more-than-fair-2/
Also, Yeshua represents the community, just as all do, however, HE is the perfect sacrifice, we are not.