All and Some
“ . . . to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.” Jude 1:15 NASB
Ungodly – Are you “all” or “some”? According to the inspired message of Jude, all (pos) will face judgment. You and I are in that group. We don’t get a pass on that day. We will have to stand before the throne along with everyone else. The verdict over us may turn out differently, but the circumstances will not. So, we are “all.”
But are we also “some”? Some of the all are ungodly. Actually, the Greek word here is asebes. Its meaning is best understood in contrast to the positive eusebeia. Eusebeia describes reverence and respect, particularly concerning the gods. The usual translation of eusebeia is piety. But that is also a problem. We don’t use this word much anymore. From Old French and Latin, it used to mean unthinking devotion and duty. These days, if we use it at all, it generally is about religious devotion or extreme moral commitment. The important point is that the positive use of the Greek term is about worship of pagan gods. Therefore, the negative term (asebes) would be about disrespect of the gods. In the apostolic writings, the meaning shifts since respect or disrespect for pagan deities is still idolatry. Asebes becomes disrespect for order, particularly divine order found in the commandments. In other words, the “ungodly” (asebeis) are those who show disrespect in action and attitude toward the law of God. Now who do you think is in this group?
We read Jude as if he were writing to replacement theology Christians. Therefore, we think “ungodly” means those people who act sinfully and that means those who break the universal moral law of humanity. That means people who steal, who murder, who lie, who commit adultery and who do all those other hideous things that we don’t do (usually). But Jude isn’t writing to replacement theology Christians. He is writing to Jews and Gentiles in the Messianic movement of the first century. For them, asebes clearly delineates the group that opposes Torah. They are the ungodly because they deny the order given by God. Their attitude and actions demonstrate that they do not care for God’s revealed commandments. Consequently, says Jude, they will be judged severely.
Exegesis that ignores the geography of the author and reader, the historical time of the writing and the cultural background of the audience often misses the real point of the message. Every verse in the Bible has a place, time and audience. None of the verses were written for us. We cannot understand the meaning of the text unless we know what the author said to his original audience. Discovering what Jude said using words that belong to a first century Greek reader radically alters our usual presumptive explanations. Jude is very clear. If you don’t keep God’s Torah and if your attitude toward God’s orders is hostile, you are in serious trouble. You might think you are being reverent and respectful toward God, but He doesn’t think so.
Topical Index: asebes, eusebeia, piety, reverence, order, Torah, Jude 1:15, ungodly
I had lunch with a good friend the other day. I haven’t seen him in years, since our church split.
“Where are you going to church these days?” He asks. I answer, “Nowhere, we meet weekly in homes of a small group.” We talk further and get to the part where I hesitantly share of the paradigm shift in my views.
Out comes the blank stare. After a few more statements attempting to clarify things, the real “concern” for the “dangerous” thoughts I was having was expressed.
After a few “assurance” statements regarding what I I still “believed,” a smile resurfaced on his face. He was somehow still confident I was “going” to heaven.
This is the short story. The long story was a bit exhausting, particularly since I thought this guy was a bit more mature than the response I received.
Sigh.
Well, somehow we did part company with smiles, handshakes and a “guy hug.” And he did pick up the check.
I think he felt he got me back in the good place in the sky.
Sigh, again.
At least we still have a relationship.
Hi Michael!
Looking for the certainty of heaven — isn’t that part of the great divide between traditional Christianity and the walk we have chosen? The fear of “losing” heaven has to be one of the most difficult paradigms to cross. I live in hope that these conversations we have, with such friends, are laying a framework to which they may someday turn and evaluate all they hold dear. Glad you parted well. 🙂
It was somewhat bittersweet. Good to have the personal time, yet frustrating there wasn’t a clean platform on which to spar in earnest. Too much judgement in the air, not enough inquisitiveness in search of truth.
Maybe another day.
I wish there were “likes” on comments. I just want to say I completely understand your sentiment, and have shared in eerily similar conversations over the last year. The blank stare of silent condemnation and fearful ignorance is heartbreaking to see. I have a feeling Yahshua looked into those eyes thousands of times. I pray for mercy and patience to respond as He did.
Ditto.
LOL Michael, “Heaven is a wonderful place, filled with glory and grace”, surely we are not to miss that! You have done your part in sharing what you have learnt, no faulting in that, better than not sharing and feeling guilty afterwards.
Shalom!
True, Ester. It certainly took some time for me to embrace new views. And it certainly wasn’t easy or smooth. It had some anger, frustration, fear, and trembling mixed in.
I just wish I had more time available with this friend. He is in a different level of people than I am ($$$) so our paths just don’t cross much as it did when we were attending the same church activities. Maybe soon he will see the need to dust out some cob webs and rearrange some things in his thinking.
With you Michael, in seeking his deliverance from false worldviews.
Shalom!
Out in the cold with the rest of us, huh, Michael? Isn’t Skip’s campfire the best?
Yes, it is difficult to find ears that are interested in rear hearing rather than heeding the traditional spoon fed gobbledygook.
Just noticed: “real” not “rear.”
“Every verse in the Bible has a place, time and audience” ~ I agree.
“None of the verses were written for us” ~ I (vehemently) disagree.
If that were true, then what or why, pray tell, are we concerned (at all) with what is written in God’s Book?
The “original audience,” whether they be Judeans or Armeneans, are all dead, gone, and for the most part – forgotten.
BUT.. ~ the word of the LORD endures forever!!
Do these prophetic words from the prophet Isaiah do “us” (those who are alive in this day) any good?
And while we’re in the neighborhood, (so to speak) is the God, the very same God (in Isaiah’s lifetime) still the very same God, the “I AM,” we worship today?
~ A Voice says, “Cry!”
And I said, “What shall I cry?”
All flesh is grass,
and all its beauty iis like the flower of the field.
The grass withers, the flower fades
when the breath of the LORD blows on it;
surely the people are grass.
The grass withers, the flower fades,
but the word of our God will stand forever.
Go on up to a high mountain, O Zion, herald of good news;
lift up your voice with strength, O Jerusalem, herald of good news;
lift it up, -fear not;
say to the cities of Judah, “Behold your God!”
Behold, the LORD GOD comes with might, and His arm rules for Him;
behold, – His reward is with Him, and His recompense before Him.
He will tend His flock like a Shepherd;
He will gather the lambs in His arms;
He will carry them in His bosom, and [will] gently lead those that are with young.
I remember that in certain past TWs Skip has made the point that scripture was not written “to” us, but that it certainly is available for our edification. I can’t remember which TWs cover this thought. You’ve brought up some valid points, Carl. I likewise believe that the more we think from a Hebrew paradigm, the more insight we have into scripture. There is just a big difference between “for” and “to.” I’m sure Skip will correct me if I’m wrong.
Exactly. Just because it wasn’t written with us in mind as the audience does not mean that it is not applicable to us. The problem is the burden is on us to understand the cultural context as well as language barrier. I personally believe that the text tells us that not only are we suppose to accept that burden, but we are expected to accept that burden if we want to enter into relationship with Him.
The easiest example would be: Letters to Galatians have valuable lessons in them for our lives today BUT we are not Galatians. So to fully comprehend the letters to Galatians there are some extra steps that need to be taken otherwise chances are we will either A) Misunderstand what Paul is saying all together B) Not misunderstand but not pick up everything he is dropping C) Take it out context which is pretty much point “A”
Same goes for essentially every book in the O.T & N.T. But spiritual truths are spiritual truths no matter when they came about – just means we have HW to do.
Thank you Michael C for your word-picture. It is oh so familiar. What a daily thanksgiving must be going forth to our Lord and Savior for the opportunities He is giving us, to read and learn together here on Skip’s website.
Tis true, Patricia. I am grateful daily for my regular Skip-infusion. Very energizing, eye-opening, and challenging, of course. May it continue on.
Regarding Today’s Word, 2/14/15…Last chapter…None of the verses were written for us???? What about the verse that says, “upon whom the end of the age shall fall”, and the one that says, “and those who are not here with us this day”? Just curious. Sorry I can’t remember exactly where they are.
Hi Reeda:
Perhaps you have misunderstood the context or have forgotten the entirety of the verses you referenced.
“And all these things happened to those as examples, and it was written for our warning, on whom the ends of the ages have come.” 1 Cor 10:11 The “our warning” here is Paul referring to himself and his audience, the Corinthians, as the group “upon whom the ends of the ages have come”. That wasn’t us — though we should take the warning in the same context in which the Corinthians were warned. Note that Paul referred them back to the original audience in the wilderness.
Which is interesting, in light of your second reference. I believe it might be Deut 29:15. Here, Moshe is speaking to the people who are getting ready to cross into the Land. His words are for the people who survived the wilderness experience, with the expectation that they will pass them on to their posterity as having equal application. So again, the words were not written to us, though we might be included in the promise for future generations, which would have included Paul and the Corinthians. Interesting circle, isn’t it?
Hope that helps a little bit.
I don’t know where someone recently mentioned not reading much of the “New” testament as they’ve gone back in efforts to understand the Tanakh better for a more solid foundation of understanding the apostolic writings. I really have been doing that and didn’t really realize it until I read that blog comment. I guess I have been doing it subconsciously as I’ve have been more focused in trying to understand Torah and all its parts lately.
It has played out in a way that I’ve come to realize where the meat really is. The more I grasp the Yesod, the foundations, the more clarity comes out of reading the apostolic writings. Gotta go back to move forward I guess. As I look more clearly at the past, the latter apostolic writings become clearer. Slowly, mind you, but, nonetheless, clearer, step by step.
The part about, “if you don’t keep G-ds Torah”. I still don’t understand which parts or how much a gentile should keep. I would love it if there is a easy to understand answer for this. It seems everybody has a different take on what should or not be done to be a gentile who is following Torah? The Jerusalem council in Acts said a few things for gentiles to do but was that a starting point to introduce the Law or was that really all that was good enough to know, be, and do for a gentile?
I have written about that council. Check out the TWs on those verses. And I am quite sure you will get an answer in Israel.
Toda! Now that I know I will get on it. This is another one I need to learn and solidify:)
LOL Michael, “Heaven is a wonderful place, filled with glory and grace”, surely we are not to miss that! You have done your part in sharing what you have learnt, no faulting in that, better than not sharing and feeling guilty afterwards.
Shalom!