The Second Choice
If I ascend to heaven, you are there! If I make my bed in Sheol, you are there! Psalm 139:8 ESV
If – David’s famous poetic line expresses the impossibility of escaping God’s concern. David is the precursor to Paul’s similar passage in Romans 8. Nothing can separate us from the love of God. But our translation might steer us in the wrong direction. It might make us think that these two extremes are hypotheticals. “If” suggests that the ascent and the lying down are simply hyperboles, ways of pointing to polar opposites for the sake of the argument. However, the Hebrew conjunction could indicate something else.
First we notice that the two phrases do not use the same conjunction introductions. The first phrase about heaven uses ‘im, normally translated “if, whether” or “even though.” But the second phrase uses the conjunctive vav, usually meaning “and, together with, that is, so that, also” or “then.” It might be that the first conjunctive ‘im governs both phrases so that the translation implies “if” in the second thought, but there is an alternative. What if David’s idea is not hypothetical? What if it really is possible to make my bed in She’ol?
Before we can answer those questions, we also need to see that the translation “you are there,” is a gloss. The Hebrew text does not contain the words “are there.” It simply says, “you,” without, of course, the exclamation point. David does not employ the idea of location. He simply says that if he ascends to heaven, “You.” And a bed in She’ol produces the same—“You.” I discover that God isn’t absent no matter where I am.
Perhaps David is drawing attention to our mistaken conclusion that God shows up only in heavenly places. We would not be surprised to find His presence in heaven. That’s what we expect. But in She’ol? No, God couldn’t be there. That’s the place of sin and death. What if David wants us to realize that when I make my bed in She’ol—not if I make my bed in the place of sin and death—God is also present. I find Him in my darkest sins. It isn’t a theoretical possibility that I will some day make my bed in such a place. It is a harsh reality. I have already slept there. I know what it is like to wake up in this place. What David wants me to know is that YHVH has not abandoned me even in my death spiral. Of course I expect Him to be in heaven, but I never thought that He would be where I am most unlike heaven. And yet—“You!” with the exclamation point.
We often say, “God loves the sinner but hates the sin.” But now I am not so sure this is correct. I am my sin! It’s not some alien force attached to me. It’s not an infectious disease that demands a cure. It is me! I am that person in bed in the dark places. Who am I if I am not who I am now, the consequence of all my acts? And God hasn’t left me. He loves me—the sin that I am.
Think about it!
Topical Index: if, ‘im, She’ol, sin, Psalm 139:8
What is heaven? Is it not, for us on earth, anyway, the kingdom? Yeshua on earth was the announcement that the kingdom of heaven had arrived. The kingdom is wherever the King is. When He occupies the throne of my heart that I have ceded to Him, heaven has arrived in my court. At that point, by faith, all possibilities (“all power on heaven and on earth”) have been returned to me. That is what free means.
Sheol. The grave. Death. Force. The place where I am being fractured from, and prevented from, being (connected). How can He be there? Oh, but He was. Did He not come here to go to that place, for me? The Firstfruit of the Resurrection was first the occupier of Sheol: fractured from me and from His Father, both, He went there because that is what Love does and did, when we both asked it of Him. Of course He is there! He owns the place, now.
No choice when I do not acknowledge who I truly am, a sinner /transgressor of His ways, one whose yetza hara dominates in nature, to turn from them. No where to escape His Presence/judgment .
A blessing to have such a consciousness of myself and of Him.
Paul’s conclusion was the same as every sinful man. – “O wretched man that I am!” – and then the pointed question.. — “Who shall deliver me?” Yes, Paul. Who? What is His Name or His Son’s Name, -if you can tell. And btw, Paul.. Whose very Name is “Salvation?” The Author and Perfecter of our faith is who? Believe on [Who?] the LORD Jesus Christ and you shall be [what??] In all your ways acknowledge Him.. – and He shall [what?].
Maybe we should review once again, the famous five- Who? What? When? Where and Why?
P.S. The Bible has one hero. And His Name is.. [??] Only THE Name which is above every name that is named.. Oh, and one more thing.. “BLESSED IS the Name of the LORD!!”
Many years ago someone told me to look at the horizon, when I asked why. He asked me if I see the gap between heaven and earth, the firmament God established. Well no way, it is not there. Is the Genesis records incorrect.
No, our lives reveal the salvation, explain the redemption and how we are in heaven while on earth. John 17:3 And this is eternal life that they know…
Our choice do we opt for man made lifestyles that change as the fashion trends do – living up to the Jones. Or do we opt to confirm that it is recorded that… With every temptation we encounter, this way we confirm God and His will is in control and not man and the next pizza or news clip on television – living up to His Name.
While I appreciate the observation, the idea that there should be or ever was a “gap” is a misunderstanding of the text. Read it from the perspective of EGYPTIAN thinking, not modern physics. The text wasn’t written for you–or for your friend. It was written for the children of Israel recently removed from Egypt. The word “firmament” refers to an Egyptian cosmology and is NOT part of modern thinking.
Si subo a los cielos, allí estás Tú; Si en el Seol preparo mi lecho, allí Tú estás. Salmo 139:8 NBLH
Si – La famosa línea poética de David expresa la imposibilidad de escapar el cuidado de Dios. David es el precursor del pasaje similar de Pablo en Romanos 8. Nada nos puede separar del amor de Dios. Pero nuestra traducción nos puede dirigirnos en la dirección equivocada. Podría hacernos pensar que estos dos extremos son hipotéticos. “Si ” sugiere que el ascenso y el acostarse son simplemente hipérboles, maneras exageradas de señalar a polos opuestos con el fin de discutir. Sin embargo, la conjunción hebreo podría indicar otra cosa.
En primer lugar nos damos cuenta de que las dos frases no utilizan las mismas introducciones de conjunción. La primera frase sobre el cielo utiliza ‘im, normalmente traducida “si,” o “a pesar de.” Sin embargo, la segunda frase utiliza la conjuntiva vav, por lo general significa “y, junto con, es decir, de modo que, también” o “después”. Podría ser que la primera conjunción im ‘ gobierna ambas frases de modo que la traducción implica “si” en el segundo pensamiento, pero hay una alternativa. ¿Y si la idea de David no es hipotética? ¿Qué pasa si realmente es posible preparar mi lecho en el Seol?
Antes de que podamos responder a estas preguntas, también tenemos que ver que la traducción “allí estás Tú” es una explicación. El texto hebreo no contiene las palabras “allí estás.” Simplemente dice, “Tú”, sin, por supuesto, el signo de exclamación. David no emplea la idea de ubicación. Simplemente dice que si él asciende al cielo, “Tú”. Y mi lecho en el Seol produce el mismo: “Tú.” Descubro que Dios no está ausente, no importa dónde este.
Quizá David está llamando la atención a nuestra conclusión errónea de que Dios se manifiesta sólo en lugares celestiales. No nos sorprendería encontrar Su presencia en el cielo. Eso es lo que esperamos. Pero ¿en el Seol? No, Dios no podría estar allí. Ese es el lugar del pecado y muerte. Y qué tal si David quiere que nos demos cuenta que cuando hago mi cama en el Seol – no si preparo mi lecho en el lugar del pecado y de la muerte – Dios también está presente. Lo encuentro en mis pecados más oscuros. No es una posibilidad teórica que algún día preparare mi lecho en un lugar así. Es una dura verdad. Ya he dormido allí. Sé lo que se siente despertarse en este lugar. Lo que David quiere yo sepa es que YHVH no me ha abandonado incluso en mi espiral de muerte. Por supuesto que espero que Él este en el cielo, pero nunca pensé que él estaría donde estoy en lomas opuesto al cielo. Aun así- ” ¡Tú!” con el signo de exclamación.
A menudo decimos, “Dios ama al pecador pero aborrece el pecado.” Pero ahora no estoy tan seguro de que esto sea correcto. ¡Yo soy mi pecado! No es una fuerza externa que se me ha pecado. No es una enfermedad infecciosa que requiere una cura. ¡Soy yo! Yo soy esa persona en el lecho, en los lugares oscuros. ¿Quién soy si no soy quien soy ahora, la consecuencia de todos mis actos? Y Dios no me ha dejado. Él me ama – el pecado que soy.
¡Piénsalo!
אִם־אֶסַּ֣ק שָׁ֭מַיִם שָׁ֣ם אָ֑תָּה וְאַצִּ֖יעָה שְּׁא֣וֹל הִנֶּֽךָּ (Psalm 139:8)
Skip, I copied this verse in Hebrew from the website http://www.sefaria.org which you would really like, I think, if you don’t already know about it.
Besides that, I am just beginning to learn Hebrew and haven’t learned about conjunctions, yet; just the letters and vowels. Can you show me where the conjunctions, “im” and vav, are in this verse? What’s are “im” and vav, anyway? I only know of the letter, vav. When is it a conjunction?
תודה (Thank you)
The first word in the verse is ‘im, attached to the verb ‘essaq (I ascend). It is a conjunction usually translated “if, whether, even though.” The vav, of course, is the connective between the phrase, in this case attached to ‘assia(h) (I make my bed). It is the sixth word in the verse (you will recognize the vav at the beginning of the word. Perhaps the answer to your question about vav as a conjunction can wait a bit until you get there. As a letter, it has a lot of uses.
Thank you for the explanation of the Firmament, Skip. Could you maybe elaborate on what the reference to the firmament would then imply for the Hebrews being guided out of Egypt. As the records differentiate between the creation above the firmament and that below it… Or can we deduct that the intent thereof would be for the Hebrews of that era the same as what Paul is saying in Romans 8 for the Hebrew today.
In Christ/Messiah we find the fruits of the Spirit (For which Yeshau would then have been the main revealer of the first-fruits for the modern era) that which saves and when we dwell in accordance of these fruits the current worldly bondages we are experiencing will be overcome.
Phrased differently this would also imply that if we unconditionally accept the guidance of the anointed vessels we trust in we will always find ways to resolve our concerns and overcome our worldly desires, etc.
I must acknowledge that there were Prophets, non-Israelites and even Strangers in the Old Testament that did reveal some of the Spiritual fruits. But the problem seems to be that they opted to only reveal them as last resort (followed them) instead of first resort (return to the first love) which will be the renewed or rebirth we read of in – John 3, so that the fullness of John 1:1-14 Word taking on flesh can be explained…
There is apparently a lecture on YouTube called “The Genesis of Genesis.” I taught it with a group in Salem, Oregon and they put it up on the internet. Please look at that for more information about how Egyptian thinking influences the text. As for Paul, it is important not to read the Tanakh as if it is all allegory about something else. The text was written for a particular people at a specific time. That’s where we must look for the Peshat. All the rest is addition and elaboration.
Here’s the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsMaU3a1GT4
SKIP. THANK YOU FOR THE LINK.