When Is Then?
For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God. Ezekiel 36:24-28 NASB
Then – Ezekiel paints a picture of the full redemption of Israel. Some amazing things are going to happen. The people will be gathered from the nations. They will be cleansed by God Himself. They will be given new hearts. God’s spirit will cause them to walk according to Torah. They will live in the land promised to their forefathers. God will do all this. It sounds wonderful.
The only question left is, “When?” When will God do all this? When will we see it happen? Here’s what we know so far. It hasn’t happened yet. This day, this time, when God does all these marvelous things, hasn’t happened. Perhaps the best you can argue at this point in history is that there is some hint at the fulfillment of verse 24. Some of the Jews have been gathered. But as for the rest of the continuous promise, there doesn’t seem to be any evidence that any other part of this prophecy is being fulfilled. Modern Israel has not been cleansed of idols. People do not serve God and walk in His ways or carefully observe His statutes, either in the larger Jewish world or in the Christian world (if this prophecy even has anything to do with the Church). God’s people do not live in the land given to Abraham. It remains occupied. Ezekiel’s prophecy is at best scarcely applicable.
Should this discourage us? Of course not! What it should do is restrain our enthusiasm for “prophetic fulfillment in our times.” We must take Maimonides’ approach to all this. After it’s over we will know what it was about. In the meanwhile, concentrate on what you can do to assist God’s restoration of the earth where you are now. Stop fretting over what might happen next. Don’t waste your time on speculative prognostication. And please, please, don’t spend another dime on “end of the world” literature and conferences. Until you see the removal of the idols, the full-hearted observance of Torah and the expansion of the kingdom to the boundaries of Abraham, there’s really no point in eschatological frenzy. And after it’s over, there’s no need either. Relax! God knows what He’s doing. It’s quite unlikely that He will need to consult with you to figure it out.
Oh, by the way, the word “then” is just the prefixed letter vav. It could be read several other ways.
Topical Index: prophecy, end times, then, Ezekiel 36:24-28
Life is somewhat ironic. What got me really into “Hebrew Roots” is actually what made me rethink if I belong in this circle because it’s filled with so much end times stuff. When getting into Hebrew Roots I LOVED prophecy. I also knew about all the conspiracies and could talk conspiracies about the Illuminati with the best of them and end times with the best of them. What I finally came to the conclusion of was quite simple – if my lot is to be just be a piece of kindle while the world is caught on fire for the end times not really much I can do about it.
In the act of it though, the motivation for following God was more based towards fear exp: “God is really powerful and I’m going to follow Him because I don’t want there to be mashing of my teeth”, or, “I don’t want God to talk to me about how He never knew me so I’m going to drop my pagan ways”. Things were motivated by the negative first then the positive (pain vs pleasure).
While I’m not going to lecture people on how to approach God I can only say from my personal experience I don’t think I was in a healthy place for me. What I would learn only would build up pride, and also I would be left with feeling anxious and fearful. It’s no way to live life. Also it’s a bit presumptuous that you think you are even guaranteed tomorrow unfortunately. Unfortunately I know too many people that, “left before it was there time” and unexpectedly.
My outlook changed over time to a place now that I believe is healthier. I personally believe it healthy to know that you don’t know when your time is up so start living a life worth living. That doesn’t mean you need to uproot and move to Africa necessarily, it can be as simple as just loving your neighbor and helping your neighbor in need if they need help. Look at the fruit of what you are learning and ask the question, “So what?”. Understand that conspiracies are caused because of ‘gap’ in knowledge of information that is available, you it’s a guess at the end. It could be a good guess but at the end it’s a guess and not everyone is lying to you. And lastly, living in fear is no way to live life, also no way to live life thinking everything is a lie. There are things you can do today to prepare your family for just regular events (getting laid off, sickness etc) and things you can do today to build your relationships (heavenly and earthly) start with those low hanging fruit. Lastly, long lasting relationships that are meaningful are rarely built on fear – more than likely they are build off of respect and gratitude. At the end, when, “it’s your time”, you won’t be consulted too much on the matter and hopefully you lived a life that is a positive legacy.
All that to say, if you are into end times and everyone is lying into you type of stuff, I was there and it’s no dig. For me though it just made me paranoid, scared, prideful and my thoughts/actions were motivated by fear rather than logic so things had to change or I was going to have a nervous breakdown from it all and just end up being isolated.
Hello Derek,
(Sort of OFF TOPIC from Skip’s post):
I appreciate your post and your sharing about how fear is what was motivating you to prepare for “end times” catastrophe and that YHVH delivered you of that. On the other hand, I wouldn’t “throw the baby out with the bath water.” Each of us needs to diligently and continually seek YHVH’s Will as He sets us in places where we have specific gifts and opportunities to learn specific things in order to do specific things FOR OTHERS.
You mention the word “conspiracies” pretty often. I would challenge everyone to ask himself, “Where is the real conspiracy?” Remember the saying, “Truth is stranger than fiction.” Believe that. Evil abounds in this world and we most certainly could and might face local, national and worldwide disasters. From my point of view, YHVH allows all of it to draw humanity closer to Him. We should be prepared to manage without “modern” comforts nor govt intervention (maybe in spite of govt intervention… think Katrina for example), and not be obsessed with survival at all cost. People without YHVH as their Pilot panic. They will claw and scratch and step over and on others in order to survive. We are most certainly expected to be living lives that we recognize are not our own. We are also called to do (c)hesed. If we don’t have anything and we aren’t prepared, how can we give? How can we help others in need?
My faithful wife has said a many times over the years we have two foundation questions to ask 1. is God good 2. Is the bible true. If we diced to say yes to both of these questions we start down a path away from the lies and games of paganism = magical thinking . As Art Katz (a messianic Jewish believer writes) “Do we want to know God as he actually is or as we think him to be”. Brother that’s the Hebraic, way nothing else will satisfy if your actually interesting in knowing the one true Elohim. It was Art who presupposed the reason YHVH decided to befriend Abraham was because he loved truth and reality. That being the prime inheritance of the Hebrews from our father Abraham.
Is there much doubt that the only way we have ever seen the purifying of the human was through suffering and persecution? The Bible tells of a “time of trouble” such as never was. It is only when things get completely dark that the light can be seen for what it is. One of the peculiarities of religious tolerance that I have noticed is that it tends to produce religious ambiguity. It is very hard to see where people are really coming from or what they really believe, as evidenced in practice.
I know we do not keep up with very dark places on this planet very well. However, those very dark places are producing very beautiful people. I don’t know how many people know about or subscribe to an organization called Voice Of The Martyrs, but it is a non-denominational group dedicated to supporting people the world over who are being persecuted for their subscription to following Jesus Christ. They document horrific massacres in Africa and the Muslim world, as well as the plight of peoples such as the Untouchables of India and the underground churches of the East. We may not be able to tell if our neighbors here really love God, but it gets really easy to tell who is willing to stand and die for Him in these places. We are told that the planet is to be purified with fire. Is there any doubt what kind of fire is required to do that?
I want to take this opportunity and this forum to tell my brothers and sisters “in bonds” that I have not forgotten them, and how much I feel I owe them, and look up to their testimony: perhaps the only one that has ever truly counted. May one day my love be that pure!
Hello I am new to the discussions , but certainly not new to t.w.. what happened 2 shorter replies these replies are good but oftentimes I find myself saying I’ll read this later Bible Doesn’t proverbs tell us ( a man speak with few words is wise, deep thought and discussion are very helpful ,
Sometimes it isn’t easy to “write” few words to express what you want to say. When we communicate face to face we use far more than just words. And sometimes people read and are encouraged by what others write. Some comments are “replies”, some comments are “expressions”. Both of which can be good and meaningful.
WHEN IS “THEN”?
Jesus made two “timely” statements that have stuck with me
about end times.
1.) “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven,
nor the Son, but only the Father.”
2.) “And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a
testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.”
We’re not there yet. Not even close.
Rich, and then the bold statement recorded in Luke 17…
How relevant is this to Ezekiel’s prophecy?
the context of that meaning is worth studying, has the Gospel been preached in all nations since originally available ? Maybe, it is difficult to rightly say, but this preaching is not necessarily the same as the preaching we might ordinarily expect, it is tied to a series of events that take place in advance and which are generally associated with the beginning of the tribulation timeline (e.g. Matthew 24: 4 – 12)
when we compare these passages with their parallels in Mark 13 and Luke 21 that describe the same series of events, the preaching spoken of is suggested to be from those who are being persecuted and led to courts and rulers to be executed
so this might not be the same as the conventional mode of preaching, it could be directly related to the type of preaching that will happen during the time of tribulation, when the Holy Spirit is directly speaking
and for that matter we might assume these accounts will be broadcasted (or maybe they will be censored), so if we follow the timeline and sequence these types of preachings happen during tribulation, and are very special, it is not solely reading from the Bible, it is spiritually empowered preaching, and I think we can safely say the world and probably most of us, are yet to truly see this
“It’s quite unlikely that He will need to consult with you to figure it out.” The best line in the history of Skip’s blog……………….
It seems to me when is a question of time. Since YHVH is outside of time and it is we who are trapped temporarily within it why worry? He does have it all in control we are walking out in space and time something he has already acomplished. It’s hard to get my propensity to reason with a Greek mind around this but my Hebrew heart is entirely in shalom….
Hi Mark — on what basis do we say that YHVH is “outside of time?” That idea isn’t Hebraic. Shalom to you and your dear wife, Kathryn. 🙂
we can safelyy say God created everything, this includes time, God is not ‘everything’, God is infinite
Some real difficulties with the idea that God “created” time. Yes, I know this is a typical idea, but the logical investigation of this produces a different conclusion. See my book, God, Time and the Limits of Omniscience.
Would this ‘then’ refer to a literal time or a conditional statement. Time referring to age in human life. Condition referring to when God will find it suitable to do personal intervention with human kind again…
Can someone clear something up for me.? Were some Prophets also Sears which Ezekiel was one and this is a vision of the millennial Kingdom?
Please forgive me.. Sears is spelt seer I think thank you I’m new at this.?
Join the discussion
“What it should do is restrain our enthusiasm for “prophetic fulfillment in our times.”
“They will be given new hearts. God’s spirit will cause them to walk according to Torah.
In the meanwhile, concentrate on what you can do to assist God’s restoration of the earth where you are now.” Amein!
Eze 36:26–27 This has NOT come to pass as yet! The promise of a New Covenant with Torah written in our hearts where everyone will know the LORD.
Nor this being fulfilled as yet….
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will FORGIVE their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
We are STILL learning! UNTIL……
“Until you see the removal of the idols, the full-hearted observance of Torah and the expansion of the kingdom to the boundaries of Abraham, there’s really no point in eschatological frenzy.” YES!