Rebuking the Devil
But now the Lord my God has given me rest on every side; there is neither adversary nor misfortune. 1 Kings 5:4
Adversary – As I travel the world, I am privileged to observe first-hand the incredible diversity of culture. From Asia to Africa, from Europe to Central America, each group seems to have a unique worldview that filters into religious experience. When we think that we share great common truths, we are likely to be surprised to discover there are many more differences than there are similarities. None is more emblematic than the role given to Satan. Since the middle ages, Satan has been credited with more and more power, taking on characteristics that were once solely YHVH’s. This particular verse and its treatment over the centuries is a good place for us to start thinking about how much credit we give where credit is not due.
“ . . . prior to the modern world people had a clear sense that there were certain things they were not supposed to know because such transgressive understanding would lead them astray or violate the limits that God imposed on his creatures. We’ve lost that sense in the modern world. . . . The religious institutions that once reined in curiosity have lost their authority in Western secular culture. It is now widely assumed that the pursuit of wisdom should be limitless.”[1]
By the way, the modern world didn’t begin in 1900. It has been with us for many, many centuries. Even the rabbis were affected by a growing accumulation of “Satan fixation.” That should be obvious from a comparison of the Tanakh with the apostolic writings. What this means is that certain rabbinic traditions read this verse about Solomon in terms of exorcisms and power over the demons. They read the Hebrew satan and pega ra as “Satan” and “evil spirit” rather than “adversary” and “misfortune.” What they claimed is that Solomon was the world’s most capable spiritual warrior, the soldier of God against the dark domain. “[A] quite plausible rendering for ancient and medieval readers obsessed with the role of demonic forces in their lives—makes Solomon into a master sorcerer.”[2] In other words, one of the “gifts” bequeathed to Solomon in divine knowledge was the power over evil, the secret incantations that would put the Devil in his place. And now, of course, we must recover those secret rites so we too can rebuke the Devil. I have witnessed plenty of religious people who hold medieval images of Satan as if they were biblically based. It makes me wonder how much of Dante is canonized.
What great lengths we go to in order to bolster our courage against perceived evil domains! Perhaps we really want to be supermen instead of ordinary human beings in the grip of the mighty God. I wonder if we don’t need to reconstruct our view of true humanity rather than attach another fable to our view of the adversary. “May the Force be with you.”
Topical Index: Devil, Satan, rebuke, 1 Kings 5:4
[1] Steven Weitzman, Solomon: The Lure of Wisdom, p. 82.
[2] Ibid., p. 75.
Rebuking Satan could also repenting of evil works the book of Acts 19. 11 – 14 evil spirits attack saying who are you? Sceva. Jewish high priest New Living Translation verse 15 but one time they tried it the evil spirit replied I know Jesus and I know Paul but who are you? Then the Man with the evil spirit leaped on them overpowering them and attack them with such violence they fled the house naked and battered. We can imitate but not initiate the power of God. Seek ye first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these things will be added unto you. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Even..Sceva apparently following Solomon’s actions failed big time! What would have been Salomon actions?
Let’s remember the great sorcerer Solomon failed. In his old age he was given over to idolatry. For Satan has no name, no home, no power we do not give him/it. He is a whisper we may choose to discount.
So how are we to interpret Yeshua casting out demons? Are they real or not? I have always believed so.
By the first century, the religious culture of Israel had nearly 400 years of Hellenized practice, so it doesn’t surprise me in the least to find the stories include these ideas. But just because the source of the ideas might come from non-canonical culture doesn’t mean the ideas are incorrect. Perhaps there really are demons. Certainly Yeshua and his disciples thought so and that seems to be enough evidence for their existence. Now the question is “How much have we added to these through our own cultural progression?” It’s a difficult topic, especially since there seems to be little if any evidence in the Tanakh.
Thank you Skip (and Brett).
Good morning John I have always understood them to be unclean spirits we give them more credit than they are due like. Skip said I was once told if you want to give them a fight I’ll give you one back but having Authority given to us. 2nd Corinthians 10.5 casting down imaginations and every High thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God and bringing into captivity every thought to The Obedience of Messiah Yeshua. A famous old saying walk softly but carry a big stick might apply in a simpler fashion.
Hello. Skip maybe you could clear up a question for me. Were the plagues of Egypt and the gods they were connected to the same as today? Most if not all of them were connected by family origin yes or no?
Not sure what you are asking. The gods of Egypt were gods of that time and place. E.g. river, land, sun, etc. What did you mean when you said, “some as today?” Most people don’t worship river gods or gods of flies or insects or day and night these days. Did you have something else in mind?
Spirits of imagination exalting themselves above God
GOD gave us authority against evil. After JESUS died on the cross for our sins. Through JESUS’ blood I have authority to rebuke the devil and its demons and i do it right now in the name of JESUS CHRIST of Nazareth. Yes! JESUS said that bigger things/miracles that HE did we would be able to do in HIS name. Luke 10:19 is the forgotten scripture. We have the authority indeed, against powers and principalities and this it’s not in our own power but in the powerful name of our Almighty GOD. In the name of JESUS.
Plenty of theological components in your response. Have you ever wondered why you think Jesus died on the cross for your sins? Or that you have authority through his blood? Or that the name of Jesus has some spiritual power? All of these ideas are developed in the church but I don’t think they have much basis in the text. I wrote a book about the first one (death on the cross) and I am pretty sure the rest are also theological teachings but don’t find any support in Hebrew thinking. I am challenging you to look deeply at the basis of your beliefs and not simply accept what you have been told by the Church. Of course, you can just go on believing all this if you wish. No harm done. But until you investigate thoroughly it won’t be YOUR belief, will it? It will be someone else’s belief that you just accepted.
It is hard to put aside what you have experienced though. I have experienced the power of Jesus name. I had one huge dude coming at me and his intentions were not good. I screamed Jesus (I hadn’t learned about Yeshua yet) and the man went down claiming somebody hit him. A couple of weeks later the same dude was in the process of raping my friend whom he had actually been after the first time. She said she found herself wishing Brenda was present when she heard a voice tell her. Brenda didn’t do it I did. She used the name of Jesus. The dude shook his head like something was occurring to him. He walked out of the house and the police found him about a block away totally docile. No I don’t think we can use the name of Jesus like a magic potent after the end of our totally selfish prayers. Like a police man who says open up in the name of the law. It is the authority of the state that gives the police man the ability to do that. He can’t just go around demanding that people open up just because that’s what he wants them to do, though. Deut 28:10 All the people of the Earth shall see that you are called by the name of the Lord and they shall be afraid of you. I have never experienced anything like that since and was totally shocked then. At times in my walk when it seems maybe all my belief is in vain I can’t get past that experience though.
Skip, I can’t imagine anything more helpful to the principalities of darkness than to deny their existence. By doing so, we allow them to oppress lives without challenge. My experience is recent, real and vivid.
In 2015, I attended a training in deliverance ministry by Ken Fish. Ken received his undergraduate degree from Princeton, his MDiv from Fuller and his MBA from UCLA. He spent 11 years working under John Wimber during the height of the Vineyard movement. Ken was brought out to Princeton, NJ for staff training by Christian Union, an on-campus ministry whose staff was been seeing more and more “demonic” evidence in their students but felt ill-equipped to handle it. I was invited to attend as a supporter if the ministry. What I witnessed in the three days was extraordinary. The attendees were all college-educated Christians living and working in the skeptical/cynical Northeast. I witnessed Ken and his team deliver numerous people from demonic oppression. When Ken invited the Holy Spirit to come, the demons began manifesting physically in several people. We watched one woman in her late 20’s be delivered of at least 25 different demons–they gained entry through various sinful practices in her past. It was just like the movies–gagging, choking, writhing on the floor, deep guttural voices coming out of women, tongues being extended uncontrollably beyond what you would think possible. Ken travels the world training people in healing ministry (of which deliverance is only one part, alongside physical healing and inner healing). He shared about the physical infirmities and maladies that he has seen lifted when a demonic presence is delivered.
I came away with two important understandings:
1. While I believed in the existence of evil, I could not wrap my head around the idea of demons as personified entities. They are. They responded to names, and even named themselves. They did not want to leave their hosts. They attached themselves because of specific past sins, sometimes generational.
2. Our God is absolutely sovereign and has given us, as followers of Jesus, authority (just as Jesus sent out the disciples). If you know your authority, the demons know and MUST obey. They obeyed Ken and his team.
We invited Ken to give this conference in Connecticut through the New Canaan Society last Fall. We did this in partnership with some local churches whose prayer teams similarly had been encountered things they were ill-equipped to explain or handle. The experience was similar. If you are interested in listening to the audio of the same teaching Fish did in Manhattan in late 2015 (he spends much time going into the Biblical basis for spiritual warfare and deliverance ministry), you can listen to it here for free. http://www.christianunion.org/cu-today/18-christian-union/1223-spiritual-warfare
Please do not wear blinders.
Hi Skip
I have been truly blessed by your articles. The concept of Satan has certainly gone beyond the text many times, as you say. But on the other hand, the plain reading of the New Testament is that demons are very real evil spirits that torment people, and Jesus cast them out and the people were free.
In India I have seen exactly the same cases the bible describes. For example, a twelve year old girl, deaf and dumb from birth, who, when we commanded the deaf and dumb spirit to leave, began to hear and speak! Many came to Christ as a result. This is normal Christianity, we in the west often miss it.
Praise God for the healing.
I certainly do not wish to give help to dark powers and I don’t doubt any of your experience, but . . . I see very little if any evidence from the Tanakh that would allow me to conclude anything about this. I often wonder how much of our experience is actually governed by the assumptions of our paradigms. Powerful, interpretive and convincing as they may be, are we then forced to embrace a world of unseen spirits who actually control others as a result of past sins? What kind of world is that? A world where I can no longer trust my senses? Where life is really a mirage? Where God is so impotent that demons can enter human beings without restraint?
As they say in certain circles, everything after ‘but’ is generally bs.
Am I supposed to be offended by this implication? Perhaps you could show me where in the Tanakh there is clear evidence of demons, evil spirits, a personal Lucifer, or any of the kind of things we find in the New Testament. Of course, all of this does appear in the NT, so the question is “Why isn’t it in the Tanakh?” or “Where did these ideas come from after the prophets?” The answer is quite interesting. The source seems to be pagan culture. That doesn’t mean it isn’t true. It just means that something happened in the Jewish world after the influence of Hellenism.
You cannot deny that sorcery is in the OT. From the witch of Endor to the magicians of Egypt, there is an interplay with dark forces. People, particularly kings, would not waste time and enormous resources on , to quote Teht (I hope I am quoting correctly) “bs”.
The difference I think I see in the Tanakh is an increasing involvement with the common people. Ha-satan is bounded, as is quite clear, but those bounds can be loosened or tightened in accordance with other reasons. For some reason, we see demonism to a frightening extent in the general population, as recognized and named demonism, that is.
I have run into this problem in superstitious sub-populations, such as uneducated people or people subscribing to primitive religions. Things happen to these people. They are letting things in because of their belief system that is undeniable. Highly educated people who work with these sub populations today will tell you that demon possession is a huge and very real problem. After personally observing acquaintances of mine who subscribe to demon belief (in the so-called “Christian” community, no less!), I can see that they are being actually tormented. Now, which came first: the chicken or the egg, is the question to me.
I have become suspicious that we have a problem with this topic because we are bringing a way of observation and thinking about spiritual things from a Cartesian mindset: we are separating them from the material artificially, and to the extent that we are, we are not doing well with our understanding. So-called “spiritual” problems or realities, like demon possession or even the nature of God (“God is a spirit” John 4:24) BECAME a problem WHEN the world got Hellenised, somehow. Skip is right. We don’t have a basis to observe or discuss this correctly until we address the original shift. Let’s go!
It is undeniable that PAGAN cultures and PAGAN practices in the Tanakh involved “dark forces,” but that isn’t quite the same as saying that God’s revelation ENDORSES their existence, is it? The fact that cultures outside of Israel were involved with what they perceived as spiritual demonic forces and entities does not mean that they actual exist. It means that the cultures that thought they existed assumed that they did. But I don’t find any place where the people of God are asked to believe in these things. As you mentioned, even the OFFICE of the accuser is severely limited and the Hebrew ha-satan is also used of humans and powers, not just of a “person.” More perhaps later.
Belief is a powerful force all its own, is what I am saying, and we do not have a way to properly engage in this study of it until we address our bias towards separating spirit and matter. What I believe IS what I am.
“You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe — and shudder!” James 2:19 ESV
Maybe we need to quit shuddering at demons and tremble more at the revelation of the ONE God.
I do find it quite intriguing that James uses a reference to demons in light of the Shema.
hmmm, i’m no sure about the offense thing, but i can assure you that those that i have had relationship with that were coming out of, had come out of or were seeing they needed/wanted to come out of life situations that were steeped in the reality of demons, evils and a truly personal lucifer saw the Tanakh as the antidote to such things, NOT the ‘evidence’ of no such things.
They, to the individual, one and all, asserted that if they (and/or their family lines) had lived by and abided by the Tanakh they would never have experienced the pain, the harrowing life experiences or the struggle to be free from horrific memories and pains that they assured me they would wish on no man.
They could definitively address each and every ‘do not do’ w/something they had witnessed being done and the devastating after effects, from generation to generations. In fact the evidence of their conversation as well as the consistency of the conversations across miles and non intersecting relationships would be enough to convince anyone of the error of this singular hypothetical posting. Truly no offense, but once one has stepped into the realm of understanding in this area there just isn’t any going back.
You could speak to any of your friends or acquaintances of like history to confirm for yourself.
Except…..
**evils = evil spirits
Absolutely so, bcp, nicely expressed; I love it, that Tanakh IS the antidote, !
Once we walk, live in Tanakh ways, we will understand ha’satan’s assignment as created by/for YHWH’s purposes. That is what free will to choose is all about.
Shalom, shalom!
When I was looking into the use of unclean/akathartos- Strongs # 169 throughout the whole Bible, I found it associated first to the things forbidden to eat, then to that involved with niddah, tzara’at, touching a dead body, and with bodily emissions and such. It is used much in Leviticus. The only reference to “unclean spirits” in the Tanakh is in Zech 13:2.
In the NT, I see it used predominately with “unclean spirits.” I am wondering what the connection is… are we told to avoid the ‘unclean’ because of this connection????
Here is the link to the use of #169 http://studybible.info/search-interlinear/strongs/169
Thanks for any thoughts on the shift in the use of this word.
Jeni, Thank you for this information.
I don’t know that we are to understand all of it. We just know that the spiritual “world” is much bigger than what we can comprehend. We know that YHVH is the Supreme Power… He is the Creator… even of the “demons” or “spirits” or whatever. I don’t believe that doctrines should be made based on “how to fight the devil.” Our focus needs to be on YHVH. We need to really get to know Him better thru Scripture study. The truth is that we’ve been lied to for over 2000 years. We are starting from scratch, but God loves it. He is pleased that we are serious about testing everything up against the Torah (which we have huge trouble understanding since it’s not our culture, context, language, time period, etc.) Skip, you play a huge role in helping us to dig deeper, to expose false, man-made doctrines and paradigms. You aren’t going to understand everything. It’s not all academic… faith is the key. You know that.
In the end, we need to hold His Hand and cry out to Him and count on Him to do the right thing… like a child to her loving father… only this Father is WAY BIGGER… Perfect, in fact. Praise YHVH.
I, too, have been involved with this sort of thing as a “supporter of the healing team” (I was asked to go with the group to a woman’s house to pray… that’s all I did…) and have witnessed these weird manifestations of “something happening” when the person was prayed over (for hours upon hours.) The suffering person of interest was the leader of the church’s Healing Team. Hours into our committed prayer (silent and aloud), the room felt chilly (in the summer). At some point, odd body jerks, rolling eyes and other “mild” reactions were coming from the woman and then the strangest thing of all happened: the deep, dark, chilling, English-language “growls” of a ? “man” came from my female friend (who was a singer with NOT a male-sounding voice at all!) Not long after that, it was all over. My friend was absolutely exhausted and limp. Everybody rejoiced at the release she felt, they left and I helped her to bed. What in the world (or spirit world) was going on there???
YHVH or His Messengers… some sort of “touch” or presence of the One True God has visited me a few times in specific instances. His Voice (or whomever’s voice) made me faint and I almost dropped to my knees one time. All the voice said was, “Pray.” That day wasn’t anything unusual; I was just home outside hanging up laundry and BAM! (I’m not penticostal, btw.) The voice was that of a “man” and it sounded as tho the “person” was standing immediately beside or behind me but nobody was there. I had no idea what to pray about… I just rushed to my bedroom, got on my knees and cried out to my Savior (way before I knew anything about Torah.) I obeyed. To this day, I have no clue what that was about.
I’ve also experienced immediate and total healing when being prayed over (and then, the opposite has been true, too… at least healing that the human eye/comprehension can measure.) At one point, I had some damage done to my knees from lifting injuries (I was a nurse.) The pain was significant and I was finding myself having to make some serious changes in my choice of employment. I was a single parent and barely able to keep up with my children and home. I was prayed over (same Healing Team + some other faithful people willing to pray for me.) IMMEDIATELY, all the pain and swelling was gone… never to return! That was 30 years ago.
God can do whatever He wants when He wants to… Bottom line: we are not to be focusing on demons and their powers. We are to be focused on YHVH and His glorious, merciful instructions for living. Our job is to obey with a pure heart… to learn and do (c)hesed. The Messiah is walking Torah. Wow. Think of how merciful and loving YHVH is to give us the perfect example of how to live out Torah.
God might bring amazing healing to me this day (I suffer with chronic advanced Lyme Disease) but, even if He slays me, I will trust in Him. Praise Him forever.
First it would be nice to see film footage of this. And perhaps definition clarification of what you mean by demons. I guess if Ken and his team came into a mental hospital, they would find plenty of demonic possession and evil spirits.lurking. This kind of thinking does great harm to those who have mental illness such as schizophrenia. You should make the sequel to the Exorcist.
“It makes me wonder how much of Dante is canonized.”
This is so true!
and *I* wonder how much of Dante is personal experience.
Oy vey!
Skip, I am somewhat dismayed by what you have expressed in this teaching. I believe you have an intuitive sense and intelligence to glean a lot of information through long hours of rigorous study, and through that, you bring together clear and concise connections to the text and history. I do not believe you bring that same thoroughness to this subject.
The story of Israel is one of deliverance. The ten plagues brought on Egypt was a demonstration to their gods that YHWH is King! The cult and religious ethos of Egypt with its plethora of gods was fixated and fascinated with death and the afterlife. It makes much historical sense that YHWH would graciously give His people teaching and guidance in contrast to this seducing worldview they were rescued from. Torah taught them to live today in the light of their redemption and as a light to the nations in the here and now. This is the revelation of YHWH. We need to get into that boat and flow with its current.
Yet it was the same text of Scripture where others insisted their ideas of resurrection, demons, and the afterlife sprung from. How much of that was inspired and informed by the Tanakh, and how much was influenced by the culture around them? I do not think we can honestly or accurately answer these questions. Should we even try to answer these questions? Are weightier matters to be addressed within our current place in history?
At the same time you have been insistent that the Bible is a story of a peoples’ encounter and absence of YHWH. I believe you have not brought this idea adequately into the subject at hand, and it causes you to stumble and come up short in your investigation. When was the last time you had to watch your children starve because your city was besieged by a foreign aggressor? When was the last time you had to tread across another nation in exile? When was the last time you set yourself in a home of a man whose son was casting his person into an open fire on a regular basis? Would you be able to tell that man there is “perhaps” demons? What would you have to say to the chains and tombs of the man from the Gadarenes? What would you have to say to “Mary, called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out?” What would you have to say to thousands of families and individuals, both ancient and modern who have gone through immeasurable suffering, and have come to know deliverance through the name of Yeshua? Would you be able to sit yourself down in front of these individuals and honestly and humbly hear their stories of sorrow and joy? Perhaps it would challenge your intellect. I do not believe that would be a bad thing, do you?
Brother Skip, with much love and respect I send this response.
Brian
Shalom,
Speaking of deliverance, one of my favorite NT accounts is that of the woman with the issue od blood. The way I see it, it is bc she knew what Isaiah wrote about healing in His wings that she was able to hold on to that “garment” and be healed.
Although there is not a similar deliverance story in the TANAKH (not to my knowledge anyway- I am not a Scriptures scholar), we find how this woman draw deliverance based on what the prophet had written. Last year, I witnessed this type of faith and deliverance.
You see, I was born in Panama and last year while I was there, and one Friday night I visited a Christian church where one of my sisters attend. I had brought my tallit by a prompting of Abbas Ruach but honestly I didnt want to stand out being the only one with a prayer shawl. Still I obeyed.
After worship I folded my tallit and put it on my lap. Shortly after the lady sitting behind me said she had never touch a tallit so I held it up for her. She touched it and felt the fringes and praised the Father audibly. Then she said her husband had never touched one either. I held it up again and he stood up and held the fringes. I felt POWER flowing through it and towards that man. Immediately, Abba revealed to me that that was the same kind of faith the woman with the issue of blood had! I was in so much awe. The power caused the man to fall back on his chair. I wept, humbled when I realized I felt the same power Yeshua felt. No wonder He asked, “who touched me?”.
I was surprised when the man got up and announced he was the appointed teacher for that evening. He shared what just had happened. He never said what he had been healed from. Instead, she shared about his faith and how Abba had used him in the past to cast out demons and bring deliverance in small jungle towns in Panama.
That is the kind of faith we need!
Shavua tov!
A topic rather overlooked than taught.
Skip I have never witnessed or experienced these other realities. Not because I never was informed of them, I have been in presence of others telling me of things reaching out, moving and entering other people, I can not say they had visions as that is my conviction, then one day I witnessed an event playing off and 16 years after the event I met people present at the gathering and asked them about these things I witnessed. Needless to say I was the only one apparently witnessing these spirits in action…
As Pual commented and Brian confirmed we are uninformed concerning things YHVH has not given us to know or witness.
Yeshua made a peculiar comment to Peter get behind me Satan as you think the things of man and not of God… What would this mean if included in a discussion concerning this topic… All evil and demons are but thoughts of mankind? I doubt as we have not even learnt to identify what we are serving except by trusting the experience of others…
That is the scary part. If we believe and trust in the spirit of God surely we should also fear and deny the spirit of Satan. Angles and Demons a world we do not know but have been made aware of…
Hello speaker you have and use many times to cause me to think which we should be doing anyway. Most Deliverance is done through the verbal confession of sin. Check out the day of atonement in the practices of corporate confession of the people of Israel period sorry for the late post. You are friend. B. B
Skip,I totally agree with you on this TW . Since I left the deliverance ministry, Satan and the demons also evaporated into thin air. NO more wasting time on praying against water spirits, witches and demons. We tend to rid ourselves from many consequences by blaming it on Satan. We make Ha satan powerful( idolatry) when we attribute just about everything to him, especially those happenings that we think is bad( which is sometimes actually for our good). Since we know that God gave the adversary permission to test Job, never ever does Job blame Satan, or does anyone suggest to drive out spirits or demons. Job’s friends suggests repentance, Job like David realises: “ You are God, and You are Holy”
When are we going to learn that God alone is the One and ONLY Sovereign King. Somehow we humans like to think of YHVH as a lesser God that needs to be fighting against and overcoming the powers of evil- sometimes God wins and sometimes He loses? Or does God always win in the end, but He has to fight all the time before He can win. – How ridiculous is that? I think we just want to make ourselves feel better. I have to fight and so does my God! ( Actually He fights for me, but most of the time I lose) Really?
Who is the Accuser? A fallen, down graded angel with a job description. ( why would God give the “bad” angel more power plus a powerful army of demons but the good ones only get to sing holy holy?) Do angels have the ability to be omni -present?
As for Yeshua driving out demons – I dont think we have the correct definition of what this meant in the first century. In Rabbinic material from that time, plagues, sickness’s, loosing battles, were all referred to as “ demonic”. The messenger bringing good news was referred to as an angel and the one bringing bad news was the demon.
“When are we going to learn that God alone is the One and ONLY Sovereign King”? AMEN! We need to get a grip on Who YHVH is (in relation to His Creation) and what He made us for! Kings are to be treated with the utmost respect, loyalty, honor and obedience. How much greater should our devotion to the One True God/His Messiah be?
What I like most about this subject is the use of the words Adversary and Accuser. I believe there are unclean spirits/energy/force, not to be worshipped but not to be ignored either. I have had enough changes for the better to know that my former attitude/ way was of an unclean nature. When we take thoughts captive we begin with that which sets itself up “against the knowledge of God” and make it obedient to Christ not Christianity. So the Adversary/Accuser/Angel has many strategies and ways to misrepresent the message of God’s love and relationship for ALL of His creation. Lastly, not all Chritians behave the same as with any group. I personally do not give the term Christianity much attention as God-fearing is what matters With any group.
Wow! So many of you wrote such thoughtful replies to Skips article here! This nearly 84 year old woman, that has been away from her home for the past three months without anyone watching over it-almost finished with the medical people here in the City. I have reread them several time, and I want to say that my husband and I walked on the fringes of some of these testimonies that some of you shared in the 1970’s. Many of your writings were things we witnessed but never got deep into, or embraced. However; currently in the town where I really live, just a few blocks from our house, there on main street in a Strip Center is a church that regularly does “deliverance”. Through the years I have often taken food and help to people who have deaths-often ones that are the poor. And with that ministry, I have come to known the lady Pastor and her husband who is retired military. They have had a forever marriage and she is willing to discuss with me about her “calling” in the deliverance ministry-along with her husband’s & other helpers beside her. She has stated that it often does not begin until wee hours in the morning over in a larger town that has the largest U.S. military base, and it is on the Streets. Perhaps we would call these people the lowest people in the U.S., but most have been in the military, were injured severely, have not had good medical treatment, their families have abandoned them after not being able to continue to try to help. Some were the only survivors of their group on the battle fields. A sad picture of necessary wars throughout eternity. I do not think I could ever minister to groups like this, and therefore I appreciate what they are trying to do. I hope to continue writing later.
In the past I have joked at this table that Satanism is in reality a denomination of Christianity.
Jokes aside, accept it or chose to ignore it, the spirit world is the “real” world because it is where YHWH dwells.
For my part, currently confined to this earthly reality, I chose to go with the prophet (I think it was Jeremiah?) who called them “non-entities”, puffs, wind-bags, ruachs.
The Tenak does mention some of them, like the familiar spirit impersonating the dead Samuel, Lilith, Satyrs, etc.
I prefer not to elevate them to cult status by referring to them as demons, evil, etc. Unclean spirits is a good and descriptive term.
The name Lucifer was a product of Jerome’s (miss) translation, and look at how that was claimed by the lost and unclean.
However, 3 weeks ago, my wife’s young tenant, suddenly lost it… started to speak in another toung to us, was also talking to an unseen man next to her, wanted a knife to cut herself open, and ended up getting certified.
It is curious to note that the same procedures she was describing is what is experienced by “the possessed” in Southern Africa. She is from Eastern Europe.
And by the way, the little “evil” men that run around at night in Southern Africa and Northern Europe, have a shared fashion preference: red hat’s, green jackets and blue trousers.
Pieter, thank you for sharing; I absolutely agree with your first few paragraphs, which some seemingly have yet to grasp.
I would call such as unclean spirits as well, having experienced them personally, growing up, when I was a child (thankfully that was only for two years) in a home of idol worshippers, I became very sensitive of such spirits, especially in pagan temples of worship.
Stepping outside of that home each occasion, the feeling is different, it is clean and fresh, and I feel ABBA’s Presence.
Shalom!
PBS Afropop aired a documentary this week that has a voice in this discussion. It is entitled The Moo Child and is available for replay through March 15.
In Ethiopia’s Omo valley, children are being killed horrifically under an ancient tradition known as ‘mingi.’ One young tribesman strives for change through education and adopting the cursed children but challenging tribal superstition isn’t easy. As he battles to save lives, things are not all that they seem.
Stephen, Such tribal superstition is more than that, it is appeasing the spirits, a form of worshipping false gods.
Sacrificing human lives is abhorring to YHWH. That young tribesman will be blessed in his efforts of saving those children. He would be considered a Tzaddik. ABBA will protect and help him. Amein!
Thank you for sharing. Shalom!
Thank you Ester and yes the tragic conclusion of separation of thoughts and beliefs from their source. Relationship does preceded belief and who I believe in over what I believe in.
Slalom !!
Hi,
The Lure of Wisdom… Can become the lure of secret/ dark knowledge.
Eze 8:12 Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery (imagination)? for they say, The LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth.
I am new to this forum please go easy on me. A friend turned me on to it.
As to King Solomon he may have had wisdom, yet I wonder if he asked for love he would have not taken pagan wives and cut out a promised long life. Not so wise after all.
Solomon knew Torah he had no excuse for such transgression and YHVH warned him.., yet he was a man who listened to other voices. Solomon learned the ways of the heathens through his 800 wives and 300 concubine who were pagan(rather overtly sexual like king David and Ammon, although David was a man after YHVH own heart –who repented. )
While I agree that people have an unhealthy fascination with evil. I see that there are Scriptures that speak to evil, devils, demons/ gods which are referred to as devils.
CJV
16 They roused him to jealousy with alien gods,
provoked him with abominations. 17 They sacrificed to demons, non-gods,
gods that they had never known, new gods that had come up lately,
which your ancestors had not feared.18 You ignored the Rock who fathered you,
you forgot God, who gave you birth.
KJV
Deu 32:16 They provoked him to jealousy with strange gods, with abominations provoked they him to anger.
Deu 32:17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to G-d; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.
Deu 32:18 Of the Rock that begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.
Job_1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
6 It happened one day that the sons of God came to serve ADONAI, and among them came the Adversary [a]. 7 ADONAI asked the Adversary, “Where are you coming from?” The Adversary answered ADONAI, “From roaming through the earth, wandering here and there.” 8 ADONAI asked the Adversary, “Did you notice my servant Iyov, that there’s no one like him on earth, a blameless and upright man who fears God and shuns evil?”
Adversary is capitalized this Adversary appears to be a Who that appears to roam through the earth and wandering here and there… It states it has some abilities to do evil… and YHVH is talking to IT.
Job had major fear which YHVH did not give him and he stated he saw a spirit passed by him and cause reactions in his body. Also he was highly steeped in fear. And this spirit had a voice so IT has a being behind IT. Fear is a spirit 2 Timothy and a reaction which is referred to as sin/ transgression against Torah.
14 a shiver of horror came over me;
it made all my bones tremble.
15 Then a spirit passed in front of my face;
the hair of my flesh stood on end.
16 It stood still,
but I couldn’t make out its appearance;
yet the form stayed there before my eyes.
Then I heard a subdued voice:
17 ‘Can a human be seen by God as righteous?
Job 4:14 Fear came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones to shake.
Job 4:15 Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up:
Job 4:16 It stood still, but I could not discern the form thereof: an image was before mine eyes, there was silence, and I heard a voice, saying,
Job 4:17 Shall mortal man be more just than God? shall a man be more pure than his maker?
This I see reflected in the Gen 3 account
8 They heard the voice of ADONAI, God, walking in the garden at the time of the evening breeze, so the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of ADONAI, God, among the trees in the garden. 9 ADONAI, God, called to the man, “Where are you?” 10 He answered, “I heard your voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked, so I hid myself.” 11 He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree from which I ordered you not to eat?” 12 The man replied, “The woman you gave to be with me — she gave me fruit from the tree, and I ate.” 13 ADONAI, God, said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” The woman answered, “The serpent tricked me, so I ate.”
YHVH said WHO told you Adam that you were naked…. This is addressing something described as the serpent also referred to as later as hay-lel, h1966 in the sense of brightness… called the morning star and in other translations the son of the morning also translated Lucifer. While the CJV text appears to only relate this to a worldly king, it is inferred in the Strong’s this “being” has non-human qualities, while making some lofty quotes of wanting to be “like the Most High”.
Isiah 12 “How did you come to fall from the heavens,
morning star, son of the dawn?
How did you come to be cut to the ground,
conqueror of nations?
This being fell from the heavens… and had a mission. To weaken and conqueror nations, which consists of people.
Eph 12 For we are not struggling against human beings, but against the rulers, authorities and cosmic powers governing this darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realm.
The religious institutions that once reined in curiosity have lost their authority in Western secular culture.
I agree, mainly because we do not considers our source of thoughts and Who we have to protect them from. I find it interesting man across the board has similar thoughts related to things such as fear/ worry/ stress.. And the same thoughts… man has families with the same type of problems
3 “You are to have no other gods before me. 4 You are not to make for yourselves a carved image or any kind of representation of anything in heaven above, on the earth beneath or in the water below the shoreline. 5 You are not to bow down to them or serve them; for I, ADONAI your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sins of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but displaying grace to the thousandth generation of those who love me and obey my mitzvot.
Rebellion = hate. And witchcraft.
Medieval images of Satan as if they were biblically based. Perceived evil domains! Another fable to our view of the adversary. “May the Force be with you”
One has a free will given by YHVH to believe what one wills.
This Force you speak of is evil. Witches know it well as well as New Agers. And most know they are trafficking with spirits, spirit guides and yes even the Ha’ Satan.
To New Agers the “Force” is revealed during significant times in world history, and modern followers look for the imminent appearing of the next divinely born World Teacher who will, as Yeshua/ did, illustrate the divine Force living within and around us. In this way, New Age theology prepares the world for the coming of the that Wicked or Gog.
As a person who came out of generations of the curious arts, I can assure you we loved it when people believed Ha’ Satan was not real, nor had no power. We drew them to us, because after all Ha’Satan was a “Christian & Medieval” myth.
10 There must not be found among you anyone who makes his son or daughter pass through fire, a diviner, a soothsayer, an enchanter, a sorcerer, 11 a spell-caster, a consulter of ghosts or spirits, or a necromancer. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to ADONAI, and because of these abominations ADONAI your God is driving them out ahead of you.
Perhaps we really want to be supermen instead of ordinary human beings in the grip of the mighty God.
We are human beings. We are in the grip of a mighty G-d. We are not superman.
I am thankful I was delivered from the power of darkness and ITS kingdom. Repentance, obedience to YHVH and the removal of evil spirits were a must. I am thankful I was healed in my body, soul and spirit.. For those who know the power of the G-D and His liberation from that evil kingdom, as well as my father, mother, brother and his family. We have an experience no man can take from us.
I thank you for your opinion. I hope it is ok to agree to disagree, amicably on your forum Skip Moen.
Shalom
Flint
On this blog it is not necessary to agree with me (within limits, of course) HA!
But it is necessary to keep the comments short enough so that they are not simply skipped over. Since you are new, I allow the exception. And you had a lot to say, although I would recommend that you do several searches on the web site to see about other ways of reading the verses you cite. Also, since this blog is primarily intended for those who are willing to support this work, can I ask politely that you make a contribution? Then you really can feel that you are accepted even if you disagree.
“On this blog it is not necessary to agree with me (within limits, of course)” Ha
I like you already.
I agree on the comments as thanks for the advice to read other verses. I have tried to put in my offering and having some set back from pay pal.
Yay it went through thanks for allowing me on.
Welcome, Flint. Your voice is needed, I am sure, and I hope your mind and heart are attached to it. We need where you are coming from, and it is my hope that you would need likewise.
Laurita
Maybe someone would like to jump in and define the difference between evil spirits, the accuser, the adversary, the devil, unclean spirits, Satan, demonic forces, add your own favourite.
I like yetzer ha-ra (in contrast to yetzer ha-tov), and both co-exist within us from the day we are born. Which do I incline towards? Which do I give power to? As usual, ask me tomorrow. I will wrestle with the angel tonight, just like Jacob.
To be continued………
But, George, it is not just ‘you’ in your real estate! We were made – by design – to work in concert with other spiritual realities. Our spirits are not only highly permeable to the spirits of those around us, they are also made to fit seamlessly, like hand in glove (well, more like thought and action) with the Spirit of God, who wants to dwell in us. To the extent that He is still not on the throne (His will in control of our will), however, we are not just ‘on our own’: no, in all those places, unholy spiritual realities are manifest (in the driver’s seat) in our lives. We were created to reflect the image of God, but we can reflect the image of what is not of God, too. It depends upon “what spirit (we) are of”. We were made, like all the rest of creation, to serve (worship), but it is not little us down here and God on His throne in heaven: no, He has told us over and over that the throne He desires to sit on is the throne of our hearts – to live right in the middle of us – of which the Tabernacle in the midst of the camp was just a symbol. I know this does not set well with humanism, which believes we can exist ‘on our own’, but that is not how we were made. It is never just ‘you’ in there, because that is not how you were designed. Of course, our jealous God does not wish to share us with other spirits not of Him but we are always either serving Him (letting His Spirit rule in us) or another spirit at any given moment. We never serve just our own will (spirit). That is a lie from the pit of hell: in fact, it may be the worst one because at that point we think it is ‘just us’, but if we think that we have no defense whatsoever. I know the years I believed fear was ‘just me’ I was completely helpless.
Respectfully, your friend Laurita
Well, who won?
I went with a friend of mine to a charismatic church one time. It was in a small, southern town outside of Atlanta. There were people falling down on the floor convulsing (looked fake) and people shouting and crying. I didn’t see any demons or evil spirits flying out of people nor did I see the Devil and his minions. My takeaway was most of these people seemed to be trying to express pain and emotional distress. We are a shutdown society when it comes to allowing us to express emotions and pain. Failure is also something we are told to keep secret. And I think we need to consider that so many people feel insignificant and unseen. Factor in boredom as another reason. You make a big point about understanding what the words would have meant to the original audience, but I think we need to stop using words that today have taken on meanings that are quite damaging to people who are already stigmatized. It doesn’t help. I can speak to this because I have lived it.
Marsha, such a valuable observation! People seem to think that the inability to connect and be happy (or healthy) happens (or doesn’t) in some kind of void, so they focus on either ‘adding’ something, such as a charismatic experience – which can be just another drug – or they attempt to ‘take away’ some unwanted symptom (exorcism), which our medical industry, by the way, has taught us to do, but the churches can teach it, too. What I don’t see either the medical industry or the churches teaching much, however, is primary causes of problems. Hmm.
Nobody seems to want to acknowledge that there are no causeless curses (Prov. 26:2): nothing occurs or disappears in a vacuum unrelated to a cause. You cannot effect a cure, though, if you are unwilling or unable to consider that there may be an underlying reason; but, hey, who wants to admit problems or do the hard work of rooting out primary causes: just take another pill, have another experience or induce another altered state! (These attempts to ignore the cause and treat the symptom were well recognized in the ancient world, by the way: they are not new reactions. There was an entire profession that, incidentally, combined the religio/medical approach to altering symptoms – this was in the days before the mind-body split, y’all. It was called “pharmakeia” – otherwise known as magic – and Paul lists the whole shebang as sin in Galatians 5:19.) Otherwise, we might have to actually cooperate with heaven (which would be obedience: banish that BC thought!); with each other; or take better care of ourselves. Nope: back to the bandaids for us!
There are two other words related to pharmakeia, and I’ll list all three below with their full definitions as pertaining to Scripture. Note that in the Galatians passage (not to be too much of a stickler, but it’s 5:20), some English versions translate the word sorcery, or witchcraft.
Following are the three words, their definitions (all from Danker’s excellent Concise Lexicon), and Scripture in which each is used:
pharmakeia – ‘manipulation through incantations, spells, substances, or combinations thereof’, sorcery, magic Gal 5:20; Rev 9:21; Rev 18:23; Ex 7:11,22; Ex 8:14; Is 47:9.
pharmakov – ‘a mixture of various items designed to manipulate’, magic, potion, charm Rev 9:21.
pharmakos – ‘an expert in manipulation through occult means’, sorceror, magician Rev 21:8; Rev 22:15; Ex 7:11; Ex 9:11.
While these words had been used in a positive sense at times (medicine, as opposed to poison) in some of the ancient literature, all Scriptural references are in a negative sense.
Having researched what I call ‘hyper-charismaticism’, and having had some indirect and semi-direct experience in this area, I will partially agree with you. While there are no doubt individuals faking these charismatic displays in order to ‘fit in’, there IS something called Kundalini, which is quite real. One who is having a Kundalini arising will exhibit many of these same displays: crying uncontrollably; shouting out; making various noises, some mimicking animals; feeling drunk; slithering like snakes; writhing in various ways; feeling as though pinned down to the floor; etc. I know someone who ‘sobered up’, realizing the dark spiritual nature of some of these manifestations, when she saw someone rolling UP some stairs! If you’re interested, look up Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship and its so-called “Catch the Fire”. There has been much written about this sort of stuff, especially ca. 1995.
I’ve read about these same sorts of things in occult literature.
Thank you, Craig. You know, I have yet to be convinced that these type of experiences have any love in them, for they lack the fruit: I mean the ability to draw us closer to God, ourselves or each other. I think I see (please correct me) that people are just as tormented (which is to say, lonely) when they wake up the next day as they were the day before – which is why I think they say to themselves, as the drunkard says about his next drink “I will seek it (temporary relief) yet again”. All the components of addiction are there; which is to say I see them ‘needing’ more and more with ever less satisfaction. They may have gotten temporary relief, but they certainly weren’t cured of what ailed them in the first place.
Listening carefully to the teachers and the followers in this aberrant movement (for the record, I am not a ‘cessationist’ {like John MacArthur}, believing the gifts have ceased), one notices a focus on “the anointing”. Delving further, I figured out the basic ‘christology’. The belief is that Jesus Himself was ‘christed’, i.e. anointed, and that this anointing is what provided the power for all His miracles, and, accordingly, the important thing is for one to attain this same “anointing” in order to wield ‘miraculous powers’. In essence, “Christ” means “anointing”, and to be “antichrist” is to be ‘anti-anointing’. Hence, anyone who questions the goings-on, even generally, is said to be “antichrist”, because they are ‘against the anointing’.
In this theology, Jesus is not the unique Messiah, He is the first one ‘christed’ (via the Spirit at John’s baptism), and the model for all to follow in order to be similarly ‘christed’. It’s neo-Gnosticism / ‘New Age’ ideology.
You are quite correct that one in this movement ends up addicted—to the next ecstatic experience. They will actually cry out “More, Lord!” in some of their meetings.
Craig, I see that the New Age folks honor Christ with their mouths and deny Him with their hearts as the supreme Lord of their lives. They envy Him and covet His attributes and seek to pick low hanging fruit from outside the wall (of which ecstatic experience is just one ‘way’ I see them going to great lengths to obtain). I see their little altars in the corner with idealized pictures of “the christ”, and hear their prayers invoking the “christ spirit”, but they want no part of Him. They do not pray to Him, want to obey Him, love Him or call Him Lord. Most of all, they do not want Him to be God! When we get to this part of the conversation, it usually is the end, for I have seen the mildest and most timid of people explode in anger at even the thought of Him being God: that cannot be, but when I ask why, they always go inarticulate. I have yet to have anybody tell me definitively why Yeshua CANNOT BE God: He just can’t. I have concluded it must be because they are seeking to put themselves on the throne He is supposed to be on in their lives.
Since they have separated Christ from Jesus–per John’s first epistle identifying them as antichrist–they honor Jesus as a great historical human, but they crave the ‘christ spirit’. This is why they reject Him as being inherently God. Now, in New Age ideology, depending on the particulars, Jesus either attained to Ascended Master, He attained some level of greatness, or He became a god, etc.; but, this is only in virtue of his ‘anointing’ and/or because of good works he’d done.
New Agers worship self. They won’t see it that way, but that’s the bottom line.
The folks I’ve interacted with have a bit more ‘Christianized’ New Age ideology. They speak with forked tongue. Out of one side of their mouth they claim Jesus is God, out of the other He is a human and the first one ‘christed’. See this article here: notunlikelee dot wordpress dot com/2012/03/17/the-christ-anointing-and-the-antichrist-spirit/
Craig, the world, as lost as it is, was, sadly, my first real taste of folks who had to be (relatively more) honest. The world can brutally honest sometimes, in fact – which can make it very cruel – but even that cruelty was an experience of fresh air for me. You don’t know how suffocating living “double-mindedness” can be until you are around folks who have to play it straighter. I think the New Age (relatively non-Christian version, anyway) has to admit the truth that there cannot be two on the throne. Honesty is still better.
I looked up Kundalini. It has to do with energy located in the body and what I saw referred to yoga and Hinduism. But I wanted to share my very REAL story. I have a “mental” (brain) illness called Obsessive Compulsive Disorder as I have shared before on this site. For most of my life it has been a mild case, but there have been times when it was quite disruptive in my life. My fear is of spreading germs and so I perform or do things (rituals) to prevent this. It is like magical thinking. That somehow my thoughts can be transformed into actions that if not done properly can “magically” spread through the air and harm people. I was ten years old when this disorder began for me. This disorder runs in my family. Three generations that I can trace. And our “harm” thoughts are all different and our rituals are all different. You can go online and look at very severe cases where if it did not have the title referring to the Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, you would think these people are “demon” possessed and full of evil spirits. This is not a funny cleaning the house disorder or having all your red shirts hanging together in the closet.
I find many of these comments displayed here disturbing because to me it is “dark age” thinking. Dr. Roy Blizzard talks about the fact that people in Jesus time would not have understood mental illness as it is understood today. But apparently many people in our modern world still display a great misunderstanding of mental or brain illnesses. One example that Dr. Blizzard uses is epilepsy where a person has a “fit” because of the what is going on in their brain-electrical activity. Someone in Jesus time would have called them “demon” possessed. You should look at pictures of how people were treated who had epilepsy as recent as the early 1900s’. Lying nude on a concrete floor and being sprayed with water like an animal. And today many people with severe mental illnesses (brain illnesses) are still being treated like animals. I for one don’t want to support dark age thinking or a dark age ministry.
Torment is not of God, Marsha. I think we don’t understand demonology (spiritual forces not of God) very well; nor do I think we understand illness, both of which are torment manifesting in the seamless nephesh. There are true causes originating in choices for both, and there are real cures (salvation from), for both, too, but because we don’t understand the cause (wrong beliefs and practices), the torment can continue. Find the true cause to get the true cure.
I am encouraging you to move beyond the ignorance that I think the church shares with the world on both issues. This is not about blame and shame: this is about cause and cure. There are real reasons that fear establishes strongholds in our lives. OCD is just one manifestation. I suffered from it for years, too. When I went to look for the real driving emotions and beliefs behind it, however, I found mindsets and patterns not of God that I repented for and asked to be replaced. We never are asked to be stuck in any fear, for there are no promises that tell us we have to put up with it. What is your family afraid of? Try asking!
I really appreciate you responding to me. I just want people to show me these demonic forces/spiritual entities. I want to see evidence. I hear people say these things are real. Maybe it is the use of the words you are using I take issue with. People cannot be helped when words that convey inaccurate meaning are used. As to your thoughts about OCD, would you suggest a person with cancer to get behind their fear to cure themselves. People still disassociate mental illness from other forms of illness to those suffering with these illnesses detriment. All people experience fear. It seems to me you are saying we can be cured if we acknowledge our fear. What is demonology in your opinion?
First, what is called spontaneous remission of cancer is well documented in the medical as well as religious world, primarily, I believe, in regards to letting go of bitterness (fear, too: what we fear DOES have a ‘right’ to “come upon (us)”, just as Job testified).
I think that humans cannot be ‘possessed’ by foul entities, as is popular to think, but I think it is quite the case that we can possess (allow to dominate us) spiritual forces operating in our lives that are not of God. Paul says that God does not give us the spirit of fear, but fear as a negative spiritual force comes from somewhere.
Is fear a spiritual reality; which is to say, does it have spiritual power to dominate? Check.
Is fear from God? Nope. Check.
Does fear really “come upon me” without my consent? Check.
Therefore, I believe fear fits the definition of an evil spiritual force. Check.
Conclusion: I used to think I generated the stuff, but I am not so sure any more. The doctrine of original sin teaches that we are our own source of evil, but I don’t believe that any more. If even Yeshua could be tempted, I don’t think He tempted Himself; therefore sin is an outside force that I am supposed to KEEP OUT. I am sure He, being tempted like us, was tempted to go into fear many times, but we know He never did. Like our Example, sin is supposed to “have nothing in (us)”.
I think to the extent that these foul forces are inside giving us a false identity not of God, we are not even ourselves: we are prisoners in our own castles. I don’t think we are holding ourselves prisoner! I think we have been duped by the liar. Even Adam and Eve did not tempt themselves, and Job did not inflict his own torment. The idea that we are the source of our own disaster is a lie of the highest order, which belief (I believe) drives the epidemic of toxic shame.
We were made in the image of God, and we can only be deceived as to who we are (who we believe we are we manifest to the world in our entire nephesh) to the extent that we still don’t know who He is. I think this is why He is so ready to forgive us: it is mostly NOT OUR FAULT. We literally don’t know!
I believe it is when we fail to show up to claim that forgiveness because we are still thinking we are somebody we are not (versions of “I am my disease”; “that’s just me”, etc.) that who God is (Salvation) cannot manifest in our lives as deliverance. Did I need to be delivered (forgiven) of fear? I decided to try it out. When I repented for what I recognized as fear in my life, and asked for healing from what that fear was causing, 38 years of relentless Chronic Fatigue vanished. The blessings do come a lot faster than the curses, just as Deut. 28 promises.
Yes, in Jesus’ time many would think epilepsy to be demon possession. Yet when I was a kid we had a dog that developed epilepsy, and none of my family thought he had become demon possessed. To a degree, society at large has moved beyond first century thoughts regarding demonology. But this doesn’t necessarily mean there aren’t demons. The NT speaks on this subject a number of times, as previous comments in this thread point out.
There are both physical and mental afflictions, and there is demonic activity. Do the two ever overlap, and if so, to what extent? I dunno. In the book of Job we find “Satan” giving Job painful sores. But I hardly think that indicates that Job was demon possessed.
What are we to make of Pharaoh’s ‘magicians’? See my comment @ February 19, 2019 10:56 pm to Laurita above regarding the various forms of pharmakeia and their use in Scripture. What is the source of the powers wielded in those contexts?
Years ago, following the lead of Constance Cumbey, I bought a number of occult books ‘authored’ by Alice A. Bailey. I put authored in quotes because Bailey readily admitted in the beginning of these books (20 out of the 24) that they were the product of ‘automatic writing’, and she credited “Master D. K.”, aka Djwhal Khul, aka “the Tibetan”, aka “the Tibetan Master” as the “author”. My purpose in acquiring those works was to try to understand the ideology behind it, as some have openly claimed to be adherents to their teachings. Cumbey had quoted from some of these works in her own books on the “New Age Movement”, but I wanted to see them in their broader contexts. It wasn’t that I thought she was wrong, I merely wanted to read it myself, rather than rely on another’s work.
Within the pages of these books were stated goals to infiltrate and subvert Christianity and to declare all monotheistic religions in general as outdated and needing reform or destruction. The primary targets were Christianity and Judaism. These works speak of higher powers, “Ascended Masters”, that we need to seek out to help humanity escape its ultimate demise. These “Masters”, part of “the Spiritual Hierarchy”, are here to help, these works claim. Just who/what are these “Masters”?
Here’s one quote:
Setting aside the Platonic notions of “soul” (obviously expressed here in such a language intelligible to the Western mindset), the important thing is this notion of being controlled, and those so controlled being of the ‘kingdom of God’. Clearly, the idea is to turn any Christian notions of the Kingdom of God on its head. The purpose behind the title of the book just quoted is revealed within its pages: The goal is to ‘externalize’ the “Hierarchy”—bring these “Masters” from the spiritual to the physical plane, i.e., on earth, and the method is via ‘willing’ human participants. Sounds like demon possession to me.
Alarmingly, many of the suggested methods for communicating with these “Masters” in these books find parallels within the hyper-charismatic ‘movement’.
Kundalini receives favorable mention in some of these works. While Kundalini is purported to be energy at the base of one’s spine, we must question whether this is actually the case or whether this is a falsehood designed to induce individuals to dabble in the occult. I’m inclined to the latter.
Thanks Craig for the informative post. Watchman Nee, the famous Chinese preacher, writer had a similar take on this topic. He wrote much about the so called “latent powers of the soul”; a lost faculty of supernatural powers resident in all men as leftover from Adam. These powers were originally given by God to be used by men on earth to fullfil their mission, (think of Adam’s ability to tend the Garden and his power to name all the animals as “super-human”) but when Adam fell these faculties were hidden deep in man, but not removed. Man has long attempted to access these latent powers in order to become “like God” and has discovered it is possible with the help from the demonic realm. He suggested that most (not all) supernatural healings and displays of power were as a result of these latent powers resident in man being released by demonic forces at the request of a willing seeker. The locus of the power is inside the soul of man while the ability of the demons is to unlock its power. It is not “their power they bring to man from the outside, but the opposite. The price for this revelation and occult power is possession and the loss of the soul to darkness.
I was wholly unfamiliar with Nee’s take on this, so thanks for bringing it to light. It’s an interesting hypothesis, something to ponder further. I’d read a number of accounts of ‘healings’ within the hyper-charismatic sphere that were revealed to be, in retrospect, only temporary, and I wasn’t sure what to make of these.
And I’ve often wondered about the unused portion of the human brain and the ‘junk’ DNA (will they ‘kick in’ when we receive our new, spiritual bodies?)…
If power resides in choice, then it is our choices that either empower sin or righteousness to manifest IN US; therefore both the wooing of God as well as the temptations of sin are geared toward influencing what (which will always be WHO) we choose “to rule over us”. I believe that there is no such thing as rule over ourselves in defiance (independence) of good or evil (essence of humanism). For example, I find that I am only successful at ruling myself to the extent that I am letting God rule me first. Sin is where I hand over that rule (sovereignty) in fact, which I am never supposed to do. I respect Watchman Nee.
Marsha, thank you for your openness to share your personal experience with a mental condition that is difficult for many to understand.
My own inner conversation always asks, “Why?” and much like Laurita, I want to address the cause, not just the symptoms. I recognize this is my own particular orientation, and it sometimes puts me at odds with those in my own ‘tribe.’
Last year, I read a book entitled, “Brain Maker,” by David Perlmutter, a neurologist, who has done extensive research with the ‘gut-brain’ connection. Some of his conclusions are astounding, and there is so much that we have not understood, in this respect, that I hope will become common knowledge in the next few years. Thankfully, our genetics do not always determine our future. There are other possibilities available to us to effect the changes in our own physiology, that many health professionals are unaware of at this time.
If the plug for the book I mentioned is offensive to anyone here, I apologize, but just as I said, I like to address the cause of an issue, rather than the effect. The information in that book changed my life for the better, and has helped others I know. I hope all of us dealing with mental issues at any level get the help we need, and that we bear much fruit by being free to express the love of Christ.
Thank you, Gayle. Because we are nephesh, we never have ‘just’ physical, mental, or spiritual torment: manifestation in one area reveals equal torment in the other areas. When we make a move to fix the problem, then, we must address a lack of peace (right relatedness) in the others, too. All thoughts in the mind originate in the spirit (beliefs) and they affect the body. The body then goes into dysbiosis, or imbalance. (Conversely, if we abuse the body, the mind and spirit destabilize right along with it.) If you have OCD, for example, you will find corresponding dysbiosis in the gut as well as crippled beliefs in the spirit, for our beliefs are built on our experience (choices of ourselves as well as others). We can also inherit belief systems that manifest in changes in the DNA. New beliefs will reset the DNA and other body systems through epigenetics – sometimes within SECONDS! This is scientifically recognized.
We have to resolve to make changes in all dimensions, then, because any change in one will affect the others. For example, if we try to just make physical changes, the imbalanced beliefs and mental dispositions (stinking thinking) are going to rebel. I think we have to make new choices in all areas of the nephesh if we want new lasting results. All areas must be submitted to proper care and the redeeming love of God. Tormented areas (lack of peace) are where He is still not God in our lives. This is not bad news: this is good news because it means that we don’t have to just ‘put up with it’ for we have the promise that He wants us to “be in health” 3John 2 “in whole spirit, soul and body” 1Thess. 5:23. Halleluah!
For the latest research on the gut/brain connection, see the series just finishing up called The Gut Solution by Sarah Otto, or check out the new one called The Immune Defense Summit by Jonathan Landsman. If you don’t think this is spiritual stuff, think again. New research is recognizing what I think the church and established medical community is still resisting: that there is a seamless connection between body, mind and spirit which needs to be addressed as a whole to affect lasting health in all dimensions. This is exciting freedom!
I couldn’t agree more. I have been busy and not able to follow The Immune Defense Summit, but I did get to follow the Interconnected series, and it is very informative. I will try to check out The Gut Solution, so thanks for sharing that.
And I just now saw that The Immune Defense Summit is still online. I’ll try to see that before it is over. Thanks!
Brain research is ongoing. It is thought that anxiety causes the disorder. No real proof of that. But once started current research suggests that OCD is in some sense an electrical misfiring/disconnection in the brain. A loop so to speak. Current research also shows that most “mental” illnesses start in childhood. I certainly believe in a holistic approach to becoming healed as I would not be here if I had not taken that approach. There was a lot of backward thinking about the heart before heart transplants became common. I’m just sayin”
Thank you, Gayle. I have heard about this and read a small amount. I will check the book out.
demon-possessed per Definition from BLB:
In the N. T. δαιμονιζόμενοι are persons afflicted with especially severe diseases, either bodily or mental (such as paralysis, blindness, deafness, loss of speech, epilepsy, melancholy, insanity, etc.),
I don’t believe in the devil or Satan as a being. I don’t believe we should use the word, demon or devil, to define illness in our modern world. The book of Job is a story about suffering. IMO it is not to be taken literally as in a man named Job actually lived and experienced these things. It is a story that helps us ask questions about suffering. People in the ancient world did not understand about medical illness the way we do now.
Jesus healed a mute(demon-possessed) man. He could speak. He healed a woman of fever. The demon (fever)left her body.
[Mat 11:18 NASB] 18 “For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon!’
Luke Caleb, you wrote,
“demon-possessed per Definition from BLB.”
Is BLB the initials for BeeLzeBub?
Just kidding, I couldn’t resist. Of course, BLB = Blue Letter Bible.
I battled with God for many years until I finally decided there was no God or at least not one who cared about me. What you have written and revealed about this verse over the last few days is poetic, haunting and quite beautiful. I think we all yearn to experience this complete love. But for now, fear does seem to win out, and we find ourselves fighting to stay above water. At least that is where I am today in this moment.
Maybe the fear and battle with God is because of our own misconception of God. Does this go without saying? The lies that have been passed down from generation to generation about God and about ourselves in relationship with Him and with each other. For a brief period of time, I was in the no fear zone feeling God’s love and seeing everyone through rose colored glasses. A wonderful place to be. But the old me is out front right now—fearful and distrustful. I think the combat zone is with ourselves, within ourselves and with others when we choose to go outside the will of God. Sometimes we do it to ourselves. Sometimes it happens as a result of another’s choice. I am in a battle with someone I care about because of their choice to override God’s will. And I have battled with God but only in the sense of asking why He couldn’t have prevented this painful situation. The battle is not with God but with the other person. God intended this relationship to be good. One that was supportive, edifying and building up not tearing down. One based on trust and respect. One based on friendship and commitment to wanting the best for the other. The relationship has suffered fallout. Can it recover? I don’t know. I find myself acting a bit like the Tasmanian Devil as I struggle to deal with the emotional pain I feel. But I know for sure God’s intention was for the relationship to be good. The battle comes when we choose our will and our timing. We suffer from broken love. The pain I feel in this situation can be extended out to the pain I feel knowing my mother lied to me for years to protect herself. She acted this way out of her own broken sense of love. Her need to self-protect at cost to her own child. That was indeed the most bitter pill I have ever had to swallow. And I know I am guilty of the same-causing harm and pain to others. So the battle with God is a battle of the wills.