Fire Escape
Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19 NASB
Go – An article by Greg Laurie[1] uses the image of your neighbor’s house on fire to spur you toward evangelism. Laurie asks, “Wouldn’t you do something to save the occupants?” His analogy suggests that passing by your neighbor without rescuing them from “a fate even worse than a house fire” is unconscionable. Laurie claims that our motivation should reflect God’s desperate concern for the lost. “The last thing God wants is to send any man or woman—deeply loved by Him and made in His very image—to this place called Hell. That’s why He sent Jesus to live a perfect life, to die a perfect death on the cross for our sins, and then to rise from the dead.”[2] This is why you should, no, you must, share your faith and lead others to Christ. “I have found that the happiest Christians are the evangelistic ones,” he says.[3]
There is little doubt that God desires sinners to return to Him. Scripture is quite clear about the joy in heaven when someone turns away from a destructive path. But it seems important to notice two difficulties with Laurie’s view. The first is the standard claim that Jesus died the perfect death on the cross for our sins. I can find no scripture that supports this claim. It sounds good, but it raises some crucial questions. First, what does he mean by “a perfect death”? Is any death perfect? Doesn’t God find all death an offense to His intended design? And what characterizes the death of the Messiah as “perfect?” Was it any different than any other crucified man in the first century? Of course, what Laurie probably has in the mind is the meaning of the Messiah’s death, but even that raises problems. As I have tried to show in my book Cross Word Puzzles, no Jewish believer in the first century would have considered the cross a place of atonement. Furthermore, Yeshua himself indicates that his death was not about forgiveness of sins. The whole cosmos is involved in this event, not just human sinners. Laurie’s view might be typical but it is far too narrow to explain what happened on the cross. Finally, Laurie’s understanding of the gospel is just as truncated. In his view, the gospel is the good news of Christ’s death for the forgiveness of my sins. But closer examination of “gospel” as used in the first century shows that the good news is not about the death of the Messiah but rather about the validation of the kingdom of God on earth and the faithfulness of God. Yeshua says as much in his discussion with Pilate.
These objections lead us to ask, “What does sharing the gospel really mean?” I would suggest that the real message your neighbor needs to hear is the message of life, not death. Death is an inevitable reality for us. Death is the enigma of life. What does it all mean if we are going to die? What is the purpose of living if it is all swept away in the grave? Answers to these questions speak to everyone. It isn’t necessary for me to recognize that I am a sinner in order to acknowledge my concern about dying. The really good news is that God has established an eternal kingdom and death will not be the end. If we share the evangelical gospel with the intent of rescuing others from Hell, we provide a fire escape. But if we communicate the message that life matters—now and in the future—we provide meaning today and tomorrow. I am not afraid of Hell, that “place” somewhere after life is over (if there really is such a place). Of course, I don’t want to spend eternity in torment and torture. But what matters right now is not what happens later. Today I am afraid of living without meaning, of existing day-to-day without purpose. I don’t need a fire escape. I need a drink in the desert.
Topical Index: evangelism, Matthew 28:19, Greg Laurie, cross, Hell
[1] Greg Laurie, “How You Can Share the Gospel,” in Eternal Perspective, Summer 2016, pp. 4-5.
[2] Ibid.
[3] Ibid.
Sola Scurtpura. I think I the correct spelling? 11Tim. 2 15 although the entire chapter speaks not only of judgments and pitfalls but a Rewards for doing what is right. The focus of a worker of sin is death.. yet the worker of righteousness is eternal life. This leads us to the correct work many many many scriptures lead us to the way of eternal life. We use words when they necessary I want life to be seen in what I do so that people may ask why I can give them an answer for the eturnal life I have been given. There has been a rumor that there is something called hyper Grace and from what I’ve heard it is horrible an abomination. Some are calling it out. My only witness against it he is living out my faith.
~ No Jewish believer in the first century would have considered the cross a place of atonement. ~
This is true. But this is true “B.C.” Before the cross and “before Christ.” No one, (no, not one) understood this “gospel” until “after.” Who conquers Death by dying? This never had occurred before in human history. But who ever lived a “perfect” (that is, “sinless”) life? This also had never before occurred in human history! When Paul wrote “all have sinned..” – he should have included “save One!” The Messiah died the death of a criminal – on the tslav. He also died (hello) during Passover. Coincidence only, right? Or.. – the whole thing was planned in the mind of God —from the beginning…
One thing I will disagree with G.L concerning “hell.” God “sends” no one to hell! If anyone ends up in hell, it is because they have chosen to do so! Our choices do have major consequences!!
One more (and last) thing.. Friends, what is “the Gospel?” According to the scriptures (this is how we roll!) – and the first century Jewish “believer” Paul, – (formerly known as Saul, btw), “Christ died for sinners, of whom I am chief..”
~ And He died for all that those living no longer should live to themselves, but to the One having died for them and having been raised again…~ (2 Corinthians 5.15)
Savior? LORD? Redeemer? Messiah? Lamb sent from God?
Is He the One, – or should we look for another?
Thank you. Carl why else would they call it replacement theology they don’t know what they replaced I must look at the Passover only because it is coming soon and you mentioned it also. Here goes everything with nothing to lose. Is communion acceptable or not since he is our Passover Lamb why should . He be put into a Graven image like, or a loaf of bread only if communion points to the.Passover directly. I do not voice this opinion very often because it might only be that an opinion
In John 19:28 and 19:30, John attributes the word tetelestai to Jesus, meaning “it is finished [/completed/perfected]”. Tetelestai is a perfect (no pun intended) form of the verb teleō, the perfect tense-form typically denoting a state, and in this case most likely indicates an action with continuing significance. According to BDAG, teleō has a range of meanings:
1. to complete an activity or process, bring to an end, finish, complete
2. to carry out an obligation or demand, carry out, accomplish, perform, fulfill, keep
3. to pay what is due, pay
Clearly, (1.) is the intended meaning here; but, we know John the Gospel writer had particular fondness for double entendre. With this in mind, we’ll quote from Bible.org:
We might think the author above a bit hasty in his conclusion with his last clause; however, certainly, those Greek hearers/readers may think Jesus used the term to refer to payment of some sort. Craig Keener, in his commentary on John (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, 2003), notes the connection to the suffering servant of Isaiah 53 [Greek transliterated]:
Hence, Jesus, the suffering servant of Isaiah, willingly gave up His spirit in order to pay our debt:
This is the first time I had to cut my comment in half, as it would not accept it, the site ‘thinking’ it was spam. On the third try, I received a note that I submitted “too quickly” and that I should wait a few seconds.
I like your take on this subject Skip. Representing life rather than death.
We learn by experience. What I think I have been learning so far in my witness walk is that people need faith and trust. Trapped in sin and its consequences, they need a reason to believe. Someone who is thoroughly miserable today could care less about what happens or not after they die. Paradise and hell both were invented as major ways to control populations and keep them in misery for the advantage of those who wanted power over them. The Roman church wanted a slice of that pie, for sure, and so they copied and pasted. What got lost is that people in misery in this life needed the ability in this life to walk out of that bondage. Now. Today. The Good News is that the Kingdom starts NOW and never ends. You can sell someone on the entirety of the message of redemption and love without mentioning once the mechanics of how God may be going about it. Desperate people do not want a lecture on how boats are built; they need to be fished out of the water before they drown. They don’t need to hear the mechanics of salvation as debated by different creeds and doctrines: they need to hear how bitterness is ruining their day, and how a lack of trust is keeping them from happiness. They need to know someone cares and see someone walking in freedom. Curiosity as to exactly HOW they are doing that, in my experience, comes later. Much later. Thank you, Skip.
Death is undeniable. No one escapes it . . . except the ONE who completely dismantled it in defeat!
The gift to believe this death defying defeat is FAITH. Faith is the God-given capacity to believe His ways
which are certainly not our ways. But they can begin to become our ways if we would choose to entertain
such a belief and see for ourselves. Faith is innately courageous, leading us to risk going out beyond ourselves.
And, oh, what we can discover! “I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.”
Faith not only allows us to IDENTIFY with Yeshua’s victory, but obedient faith opens us to PARTICIPATE in
His newness of eternal life here and now. That’s real “GOOD NEWS” that can only be truly shared through
His real love working through our living faith . . . which is His broadcasting system! That, too, is undeniable!
Skip, you said… “Is any death perfect? Doesn’t God find all death an offense to His intended design? And what characterizes the death of the Messiah as “perfect?”
Q. Would you agree that Yeshua’s death, if not perfect in appearance, was part of a “Perfect Plan?”
You said…”I would suggest that the real message your neighbor needs to hear is the message of life, not death.” Q. Why not BOTH?
You said…”Yeshua himself indicates that his death was not about forgiveness of sins.”
Q. I’ve forgotten where in Scripture He says this but am wondering (w/out looking at the verse) if He was not “excluding” forgiveness, just “including” the conquering of death…again, BOTH.
Even though God is forced to use death to conquer the last element of defilement does not mean that any death is the “perfect” choice. After all, He is a God of LIFE. Death is an offense to God and is used only to emphasize the enormity of sin. Yeshua’s death might be part of the plan, but I am pretty sure it was not what God originally intended. My concern with the conversation with the neighbor is that LIFE is more important than death. By placing the emphasis of death, don’t we twist the message and the character of the Messenger. Forgiveness isn’t accomplished by death. Forgiveness is an expression of the character of God but death (sacrifice) is a way of making it very real. The part about the death of the Messiah not being about forgiveness is really the argument of my book, Cross Word Puzzles
Skip, somewhere in here you are going to have to address consequences, or, “wages”. Forgiveness may not be accomplished by death, but “wages” certainly are. Somebody is going to have to die. The wrath of God for the fracture in His creation is going to have to be answered for, too. Fracture has to be mended. Choices, if they are to be real, have to have real consequences. Forgiveness, then, involves a whole lot more than YHVH saying “oh, well, I didn’t mean REALLY free choice, and neither did I mean what I said”. Wait, that sounds like the parents of today!
Laurita, I dont think it is that complicated. Either we have free will, choice, or we dont so we make our own beds and lie in them. Either we obey or we dont. Perfectly, of course not but do we make an honest effort each and every day or not with every opportunity to do so 24/7? The scales of justice await our response.
When a child disobeys a parent continually there ultimately has to be consequences or there will be chaos. We have been there and had to do so and did. It all worked out but in the process we finally had to say let go and let God and hold our breath and pray. And we did our part and He did His.
It is the same for us. Sh’ma. I love it. One word says it all. Just do it! It works. But be prepared for the alternative choice consequences. We are warned!
George, does something really happen to reality when we sin? The way I read my Bible, it does. When I read “the wages of sin is death” it does not tell me that God is grumpy; it tells me that life as a web is broken and death is the instantaneous result. Now, THAT is a real choice! Forgiveness, then, is not just about grumpy God getting happy again. Forgiveness is somehow about dead things either not getting dead or about coming back to life again. Sin makes SOMEONE die. That is how I read that verse. God’s part, like you put it, has to be about the death part that we cannot do anything about. There is no way I can pay my way back out of my own funeral that I freely chose when I sinned, for any and all fracture kills. Me: along with a whole lot of others and else’s, too Grace is about death NOT being the case, but grace has to be paid for, too. Somebody bought that grace for me. The only price for grace is blood (life). Grace just means a Kinsman Redeemer paid it instead of me. The whole Book is completely unambiguous to me on this point – the wages is death point. I get it that choice is about life or death. Moses said it; Joshua repeated it, and Yeshua showed us what it looked like: my choice, His death.
Please correct me. Did YHVH not say he will do this himself.
How is it that Yeshua should send followers to do what YHVH said is the new convenient.
This sounds more like a theology justification.
The last supper this is my body shared for many and my blood shed for…
Passover eat the meat before dawn and share what is too much for one family. Burn what is left over. If the theory is correct that Yeshua be this lam. Surely the rest should also be the same… There is nothing more to share but a lot misunderstood…
Good point vengeance is mine says the Lord I will repay. The best admonishment for holding our temper or wanting to get even we don’t want to play the part of God we would be like a Pharisee
I didn’t have much extra time today to respond, so I did what any good modern “scholar” would do. I asked “Rabbi Google” if Jesus died for our sins? Of course I found a lot of disagreement and no shortage of opinions among the references that Google found. One thing I thought was interesting was some of the verses that people try to use to answer that question that don’t have much to really do with the subject. Many seem to be because of misunderstanding the quotations and concepts (such as covenant) from the Hebrew scriptures, which is nothing new.
I’m sure Skip has probably written about most if not all of these so I’m not sure if there are problems with the translations or interpretation of these verses, but here is some of what I found:
John 1:29 (NASB)
29 The next day he *saw Jesus coming to him and *said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!
Romans 4:25 (NASB)
25 He who was delivered over because of our transgressions, and was raised because of our justification.
1 Corinthians 15:3-4 (NASB)
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,
1 John 2:1-2 (NASB)
1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
1 Peter 2:24 (NASB)
24 and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.
1 Peter 3:18 (NASB)
18 For Christ also died for sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
Comments?
Many of these passages are treated in my book, Cross Word Puzzles. But as I have pointed out many times, the paradigm governs the exegesis. If you want to believe that Yeshua is God and that he dies for our sins on the cross, you will probably be able to interpret the verses that way. But the question I ask that needs answering is this: “Would a Jewish follower of the Messiah in the first century where the Temple is still active ever believe that the cross was a place of atonement?”
What did first century Peter mean when he said “bore our sins in His body on the cross”, and first century John mean when he said “propitiation for our sins”,and first century Paul mean when he said “died for our sins” vs. 21st century Skip when he says that what they really meant, well, what DO you say they were really thinking? I am getting more and more curious. I read the book, but it didn’t tell me what THOSE verses really meant to the first century audience. Those verses that Mel is highlighting, for starters. The English is awfully plain. You cannot throw us up in the air and just expect us not to splat. We do have to come back down again. Not trying to argue. Just want to know what you think, along with Mel.
Laurita, I feel the same way, and also not just for the sake of argument. I have also read the book but still have questions. The only difference I guess that I would have with what Skip said in his reply is that I don’t think that Yeshua is God the way the church does. However, since sin and death entered through a man, I think it had to be dealt with by a man (see 1 Cor. 15:21). Not just any man, but the Son of God who, by being resurrected from the dead was exalted by God and made both Lord and Messiah (see Acts 2:36). I don’t have an answer to Skip’s question. I’m sure a first century Jew wouldn’t think of the cross as a place of atonement but I agree with you Laurita that these Scriptures seem to be pretty plain in regard to Yeshua’s death having something to do with sin. Questions. There are always questions!
Maybe you forgot that I actually spent time discussing the verse in 1 Peter, a citation from Isaiah with Peter’s modification. I’m sure I also wrote about Paul’s statements, pointing out that there is no reference to dying ON THE CROSS for sin. Dying for sin is a different matter. And the English isn’t quite so plain as you suggest as I have shown that there are several cases where the English translation deliberately alters the Greek text to fit a theological paradigm.
Skip, I’m sure you’re right. I meant no disrespect. I will try to look up again what you have written. You give us so much. My brain can’t remember it all. I really appreciate that you are willing to address the tough issues.
Thinking about it some more and looking at your answer again I think what I need to understand is “dying for sin” which you said is a different matter. I don’t think I understand that as well as I do dying to overcome death.
Laurita and Mel,
If I may humbly remind Paul explained the death on the cross very clearly. Romans 6 for sin as we must die for sin. 1 Cor. 15 In the old Adam so that we can be resurrected in the new Adam. Gal 6 for the world as explained by John in 1John 2. All these cross deaths refers to something I must do to become a son or daughter of YHVH. John 1:12-14 accepting this principle by permitting it to change my life. My exegesis I believe is reasonably aligned with the teaching theme throughout the apostolic era in the NT…
Sorry but I was not alive 2000 years ago least you say I was reincarnated as I did not find the correct understanding that time round… And I have time for a rematch…
If, as George Kraemer explained to me, death is separation from God, which is the very meaning of annihilation, then death is very literal. There is just no spiritualizing it away, as we have been taught to do so well. We can be alive again through Christ, yes, but the death alternative is not some spiritual phenomenon. I think we tend not to understand it well because we are not dying on the spot like Korah or Ananias and Sapphira, but that is because of grace, not because we did not choose that extermination. The only reason I do not literally die daily is because God had a controversy with me about my choice. He disagrees. He has faith that I did not really mean to choose to be separated from Him; I just didn’t know any better. I was deceived. To die daily TO SIN, then, is a better choice, like you say, but that death is a proxy death, for Yeshua did really die so that sin could go and I could stay. Halleluah!
I had a good belly laugh at the rest, Seeker!
The only reason we live on earth is because He permits. The only reason why we can cross over to a life in Christ is when He calls.
As Skip said both lives have choices both choices have consequences…
Sin be separated from God. Life be united with or is harmonized towards. Yeshua achieved the united with we humbly try to find the way to harmonize in accordance with. For this reason religions, dogmas, schisms etc. Not away from but to empower towards a specific understanding…
The exegesis determines how aligned. We just need to ask and remind of are you satisfied that the harmony promotes God will or theology…
Dear Skip and Mel,
thank you both for the opportunity and motivation to re-read the wonderful book Crossword Puzzles again. In it, two of the above verses that Mel cited are exegeted: 1Cor. 3,4 and 1Pet. 2:24. In that analysis, Skip goes over the central focus of the entire book; namely, that BECAUSE sin was forgiven by means of the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world, all that remains is the mopping up of the consequences of sin; namely, death. The cross, then, was primarily about re-establishing a new order of power (king) over that death, even though by means of His death on that cross we got a graphic portrayal of the sacrifice of that Lamb for those sins. Atonement, or cleaning of sin from creation thus restoring reunion of YHVH with that creation, was done with that blood, or, death. Blood was used to satisfy the fracture sin caused. Death erasing death. YHVH can forgive us because the method of restoration has already been enacted by that Lamb. It all hinges upon the ongoing redemption in its multiple facets at multiple intervals. The cross was neither the beginning nor the end for that redemption, which is what the book points out. Forgiveness, then, became manifest at the cross from our point of view, even though the death on it was because He was bearing the RESULTS of sin; i.e. sickness and death. His other work as a priest after the order of Melchizedek, which did NOT follow the Levitical sacrificial system, incidentally, had already been accomplished when it came to the forgiveness of sin, although when I read Hebrews, I can see that there is still more work for Him post cross in regards to the judgment OF sin; i.e. the final reward, still yet to come. It all really does make total sense.
Most telling to me was Skip’s quote of the passage in Isaiah 53 as quoted from the oldest known Qumran copy (1QIsa) verses 5,6: “In reality, however, he bore our sicknesses, and our pains – he carried them. And us? We regarded him as plagued, and struck down by God and humbled. But he, yes he, is being defiled from our transgressions and is being crushed from our iniquities – it was upon him! And because of the bruising blows he received – healing is ours!”
I guess my difficulty comes from trying to see how this beautiful and seamless understanding could possibly be the case if Yeshua was not preincarnate and completely complicit and cognizant when it came to not only devising the plan of salvation, but also volunteering. As far as I am concerned, this was no unwitting Lamb when it came to the sacrifice of love for me. Also, it is clear to me that Yeshua is intimately bound up with our sin. And, in the sense that He was wiping out the results of our sins on that cross, yes, I will argue that, whether you want to say “died BECAUSE of our sins” or “died FOR our sins”, whether on the cross or on that heavenly altar is coming close to splitting hairs or counting angels dancing on pinheads. Regardless, my sin and His death are forever linked, as far as I am concerned! Halleluah!
Laurita great explanation and understanding revealed. Another thought on reward for doing and the separation of death. There is none left other than us becoming the sons and daughters in accordance to what is desired by God.
No one alive has been beyond the now and here. We have experienced consequences of our knowledgeable actions. We deny ourselves the privilege of experiencing the results of our faith… That is the further works I read of that are still pending but we need to overcome and achieve this… Not my doctrine, conviction or actions my humble walk in faith. Do what you know as right and walk when you know you are being called. Do not confuse these two cognitive versus faithfulness…
A perfect death for a perfect MAN.
Was he the perfect MAN, doing no wrong?
Why did he, even if he wasnt a god-man, CURSED and withered the poor innocent fig tree for not having fruit being out of season, just because he was hungry?
Or, was that written to “illustrate” that he was god?
Isn’t it a commandment to honour ONES’ parents? WHY did he addressed his poor mother who carried him for nine months, giving painful birth, since she was a virgin, simply as “woman, what have I to do with you? John 2: 4;
and, “know you not that I must be about my Father’s business?” Luke 2:49
Such attitudes even in these days and age, are shocking coming from the younger undisciplined generations.
Seriously!!