Generational Gymnastics (2)
And His disciples asked Him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he would be born blind?” John 9:2 NASB
Who sinned – Hellenism! Yes, Greek Hellenism affected the first century world of Yeshua and his disciples. Hellenistic ideas crept into Jewish thought as early as the fourth century BCE and by the time Yeshua began teaching, many Greek ideas were part of the culture. Those ideas included an elaborate conception of the afterlife, heaven, hell, the Devil and—reward and punishment now and in the hereafter.
The problem for the Greeks is fairly clear. Not all wicked men are punished in this life. In fact, some very wicked men seem to get away with it, living well in this world and dying before they have to pay. So the Greek idea of justice wasn’t served. The solution? Either these wicked men pay in the next life or the children of these wicked men pay in this life. This is the true foundation of the idea of generational curses. It is a powerful idea because it rights the scales of blind justice. Someone has to pay! When the disciples ask Yeshua who is responsible for the catastrophe of being born blind, they reflect this Hellenistic idea. Blindness is a curse. This man is a clear illustration of a curse from birth. Therefore, he is paying for some sin. The only question is, “Whose?”
Yesterday we investigated the Hebrew word paqad. We determined (hopefully) that the idea of generational sin is mistaken. That is to say, while there are certainly consequences for sins committed by others in our past, God does not punish us for someone else’s disobedience. Every man is accountable for himself. But the disciples are caught in Greek logic. Since blindness is a horrible state, they conclude that it is punishment for someone’s sin. There must be a responsible party. And since it is difficult to imagine that a fetus could sin in such as way as to merit blindness, it follows that someone else must be responsible.
Notice Yeshua’s response. “It was neither that this man sinned, nor his parents.” Let’s say it a bit louder. There is no generational curse here! This man is not being punished for parental sins! Yeshua changes the focus entirely. Why was this man born blind? So that the glory of God could be shown in his life today! Yeshua focuses on purpose, not cause. He looks toward God’s future actions, not men’s past decisions. What appears to us to be sinful consequence is in reality God’s opportunity. The Greek text reads, oute hemarten (not sinned). The negative is very strong. Something like “not a chance” or “in no way at all.” In other words, put this idea right out of your head. There is no possible way of explaining what is happening here unless you completely stop looking to the past.
The day before Yeshua arrived, we could all be Greek. We could all think that past sins, even the past sins of others, resulted in God’s punishment to us. But that was yesterday. The day after, everything is different.
Topical Index: John 9:2, who sinned, tis hemarten, generational curses
For a longer article on this subject, see THIS POST
A “curse” that do cross generations is severe psychological trauma (PTSD). WW1 participants disfunctionality often manifest in their grandchildren. Maybe this is what YHWH refers to.
Please say shalom to the people of Bloemfontein. Used to be a GP there 15 years ago.
Pieter Let’s Help Define what a curse is? The opposite of a blessing?, Dysfunction?, My comment would be, a generational curse, A pattern of thinking that does not function properly, changing that cycle would be the blessing? MaybeI need help with the basics .With a topic like this starting off with a clear understanding would be very helpful.
I resist the idea of “generational” curse because I think it has incorporated a transmission of guilt and I find no support for the suggestion that GUILT is transmitted from one generation to another. If you talk about generational CONSEQUENCES, then I am on board.
Could not agree more. The Greeks confused the Hebrew “cursed is the ground”, and the curses outlined in Deuteronomy too, into PUNISHMENT. A curse is NOT punishment! Redefine. Must take back the language. We lose the entire meaning of life otherwise. Thank you so much, Skip, for dedicating your life to just that. I pray every day that you succeed.
Pieter, I am studying PTSD, specifically. Unprofessionally, of course, but the studies with which to do so are published, thankfully. The key to understanding stress is to be found, I am convinced, in going back and understanding the role that curses play in our salvation. Yes, they do. Moses spelled this out. I think Yeshua slapped the disciples so hard because they were focused on the punishment for sin (that Greek focus) but, like Skip brings us back to, if sight is a blessing (it is) and blindness is a lessening, or, vilification of that blessing, then we could call blindness a curse – and Yeshua did not deny that it was; He just reclarified that that curse was not a PUNISHMENT for sin. Which it is not. Curses, like blindness (Deut. 28 calls it a curse), give us a chance to return, and God a chance to be glorified in that return. Return to function. That same action can be called repentance (if we are the cause of the curse, that is) if it is describing our end of the action, but it can be called glory if it is describing God’s end of it. If the victim that is suffering the choice consequences of others names that sin and takes responsibility back in that place, it is called in Neh. 9 “confession”. Confession is not repentance of the guilty party, however; confession is about taking responsibility that another refused to take. To take back our lives we have a part to play. Just blaming others is not enough.
The way I read Deut. 24:16 and Ex. 18:20, our poor children and others who are the victims of our bad choices cannot repent for us, or take the blame for our guilt, either. Their suffering, however, opens the door to a return, which Deut. 28 spells out. Taking responsibility in our own lives or the lives of others wherever we see a curse operating is the prerogative of anyone who has access to the throne. Halleluah! (Thank you, bpw, for discussing this topic with me.) Yeshua showed us what that looks like, and we are to follow His example. Focus on curses as punishment, however, leaves people unable and unwilling to take this opportunity to glorify God in this place by becoming willing to take that responsibility. For example, PTSD can be cured, but that cure comes when people take responsibility for their lives in that place. People who just take it as punishment, however, can find themselves stuck in shame, blame and self pity. Wrong focus! There is a specific study that focuses on how, with the more severe forms of PTSD, if people do NOT take meds but instead work on their lives they can end up better off than they were before. Now, THAT is glory to God!
Most of why we are so weak and diseased and have such broken minds and so vulnerable to stress (fear) lies in the mists of our genetic and emotional history. Sin opens the door to the curses, yes, and there have been plenty of sins committed that consigned all of us to these consequences, but the sins themselves can only be repented of (and therefore forgiven) by those who committed them. The Tanakh spells this out in numerous places, and the disciples should have known that. Judgment for the guilt of sin? Not until the end of the age. Curses are not about guilt (thank you, Skip!) Curses, or lessening of the blessing (thank you, Webster’s 1828 dictionary) are about chances. For God and for us.
Clarification: the text is not Ex. 15:20, it is Ez. 18:20.
Semantics. But then, that is TOTALLY your game. I’m looking forward to the third installment then, as surely there is another. YHVHH provided against those consequences, most certainly. The question on the table then, is what is that provision.
Laurita, don’t spill the beans!
Consequences, technically yes. But are we not objectifying ourselves by semantics?
For the individual involved, is the fundamental / primordial experience not a curse?
“Generational” Calvinism has deprived us from appreciating blessings. I trust it is of utmost importance to understand real blessings: a grandchild born without defect, should keep you on your knees for an eternity.
Ah, you were blessed to by among them.
Blessed are you Lord our God king of the universe. Who does God need to be with to be blessed?
I’d like to know the definition of the word “curse” as well. Is it a learned dysfunctional behavior? All too often, I’ve heard this word used in ways that can be interpreted as something that is negative and that is supernaturally put upon someone. After which, people have all sorts of prayers to undo these curses. I cannot accept this kind of definition because it feels very superstitious to me.
Claudia, curses are simply consequences for sin, and are as natural as falling being a consequence of gravity. People open themselves up to many stupid and weird things just by allowing themselves to be influenced. This is a natural consequence of allowing themselves (agreeing) to be influenced. People do not have control over gravity; nor do they have control over the curses. YHVH does all the (real) cursing. However, people can psych themselves and others out, and they can also sin and have those sins affect others, but the only prayer that can change a curse is either repentance by the one who is sinning (cursing) or confession (naming the problem and taking responsibility in that place) by another, be they the victim or someone who, like I say, has access to the throne. Neither of which I see a whole lot of people doing in the crowd of folks who subscribe to what you describe so well as “superstitious”. Just saying that you are cursed and ‘casting out’ the curse has about as much effect as naming falling down a curse and casting it out. I would like someone to demonstrate that to me! Evil is in the people’s heads who are agreeing to let themselves be influenced by it. That in and of itself is a sin. I think you should start there.
Other phrases like the blind leading the blind what are scripturally related lead people into the unknown areas. I would simply say to be cursed in an area is to be without God if blessed is with cursed is without. Following the same patterns as your parents would not be generational but maybe informed Habit? And realizing that habit is wrong been correcting the pattern would be appropriate. Someone once told me reverse the curse sounds of it simple but it’s a good place to start I think.. often times it is also said, let’s not give the devil credit when it is the person’s own responsibility. Not doing you know the Lord wants done is sin Rebellion is witchcraft Galatians chapter 3.1 oh foolish Galatians who Bewitched you very similar case.
Thank you for your explanation, Laurita. I appreciate it. You simplified it very well. I wish this was made clear to everyone. It’s amazing how much nonsense there is out there concerning being cursed.
Hello All,
I recently read this account in John 9, and as some of you know, I have been a blind person since infancy. I am now a semi-retired writer, musician, husband, dad, and Messianic believer. I am in the process of producing an anthology with seven other writers and am considering writing a novella based on John 9 after this is done. Besides YHVH being glorified in the man’s life, I am struck by his dialogue with the temple leaders and his parents who say, “Ask him, he can speak for himself.” A number of adults assume we cannot speak for ourselves and will ask our sighted partners or friends what it is we want if we’re at a restaurant or a shop or a store. The parents might have been answering on a level that says our son is an adult, treat him like one. Yes, they may have feared being tossed out of the synagogue, but I think argument can be made for the other as well. Yes, there are limitations that come with blindness or any disability but it is not a disfigurement. I fell into sexual addiction in my 20s because many Christians ignored me and I felt like they saw me as disfigured. It has taken some time to get that devil off my back! I’m married today, 21 years and counting, growing still and struggling still but thankful for Skip and Messianic teaching! I support you with prayer!
David Russell
ps. One of my dear friends has come from these studies. Thank you for the gift of a true friend!
David shalom, if I may use his example using the scripture blind leading the blind. The Lord was talking to me had service yesterday those who have eyes and do not see and every ears that do not hear. Many apologies if you were offended I have disabilities also that are chronic, but they do not stop me I’m serving my family and my church and my God
Mr. Moen: I agree with you 100% that a person is not punished for the sins of the father. “Curse” should probably be better understood as “disadvantage”. For example, is it a disadvantage to be born into a family where the parents are alcoholics as opposed to a family that aren’t? I don’t think anyone would argue that one. However I do not agree that God has someone born blind (or any sickness/disease) just so He can heal it later. What kind of a Father is that? Is He so desperate for “glory” He makes someone sick so He can show off later? I don’t think so. I am absolutely no Greek/Hebrew scholar or even a “grammar king”, but if you simply change the punctuation (we know the words are inspired but the punctuation is not) in any English translation you will see that it changes the “blame” off of God. Example: “Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned. (period) (new sentence) But that the works of God should be revealed, (comma) I must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day;…”” (NKJV) (If this is really wrong punctuation, let me know please). Jesus wasn’t saying the man was made blind just so He could heal him later. Translators/Publishers make decisions that cause the wrong picture of God to be forwarded (as we all know). This leads to people rejecting God…who wants to follow Someone who makes you sick just to make you well later so He can be glorified. I can’t believe that’s what Love does (God IS Love, He doesn’t HAVE Love). Let’s not blame Him…stay on God’s (Love’s) side.
These aren’t curses/punishments passed on. They are your own character flaws that you do not overcome. Your children and your grandchildren will also have them if someone doesn’t stop the cycle. These character flaws, anger, bad eating habits, complaining, etc., can lead to sin. This is just my concept of this verse. Hence, “oh my, that sounded just like my mother!” It’s a “curse” because now I must struggle and overcome. I have sincerely apologize when I see one of these pop out of my children and I know exactly where it came from. Now that my parents are older, I see where those flaws end up if not overcome. Very ugly.
Hi, Bret, no offense taken. I would beg to differ that a disability such as blindness is a “horrible state” as said in the reading. What is horrible is the limitations that a disability automatically imposes on someone. What is wonderful in this reading is the difference, the vast difference if I may before Yeshua and since Yeshua. Perhaps that is where the discussion needs to go, since Yeshua . . .
David
People are used to calling them disabilities when actually they allowed the other senses to be more tuned in. When we are weak then you’re sure makes us strong. It is only a taste of what he can do when we give our abilities to him. Hallelujah aren’t we in his service anyway? Helping people understand when we do what we can with the little amount we have the Lord will add strength to that where we do little he does much so much to say about this topic but what we are trying to understand is where these we will say dysfunctional conditions come from I would say hatred if God is love hatred or confused about love comes from the enemy actually HaSatan the adversary wouldn’t that mean in opposition to or the opposite of in this case love?
Perhaps David we hear more and more comments about the loss of the senses really bring strength to the other of the senses weakness equals strength giving up in letting go allows the spirit to do more starting off in the spirit let us continue there in the spirit. Since Yeshua I Have Become more of what I was intended to be. There was a book written the spirit controlled temperament it revolutionized my life and I do mean revolutionized. Knowing the weakness I had allowed a power I did not have but desperately needed. Overcoming is part of the new life that Yeshua has for us, after all he is salvation! After salvation comes we are free from the things that bind us. Returning to Center focus. The power of the Breath of God breathes on us and like Adam coming alive so do we and alive to the things of God.
So just what was that book BB?
I would agree with Pieter, citing Deuteronomy. Yeshua stated that it wasn’t the mans parents, but what about back three, four or ten generations, ans was the curse of illegitimacy. There does seem to be a spiritual DNA working that I see often in counseling.
I would assert that we also see it in the family lines of the righteous where children are blessed with positive spiritual DNA.