Reading According to Culture
For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain. Titus 1:10-11 NASB
Especially those of the circumcision – If you’re a replacement theology person, this verse is golden. Obviously Paul detested “those of the circumcision.” That must mean that he no longer believed circumcision was necessary, and since it is one of the pillars of Jewish faith, we must conclude that Paul abandoned the Jewish faith in favor of Messianic Christianity. Or so the argument goes. But is this really what Paul is writing to Titus? Let’s see.
There are a number of Christian scholars who now question the customary interpretation of Paul as a convert to Christianity. The evidence seems incontestable (you can examine it by searching the subject online). What this implies is that Paul argued against the Jewish faction that insisted that men must be circumcised before they could be accepted as full members of the community. This faction held strictly to the proselyte methodology. They contended that the proper steps to be taken before admission to the community were: 1) an expression of intent, 2) the adoption of Torah living, 3) circumcision, 4) baptism and 5) examination of behavior by appropriate authorities in the Jewish community. Paul objects to these requirements for admission. He argues that God has called these Gentiles and the calling alone is enough to accept them into fellowship. That does not mean Torah is set aside. Participation in the community requires adopting the norms of the community, so Torah will eventually become the way of life for these Gentiles. But it is not a requirement for admission. Circumcision, as the hallmark of Torah obedience, comes after, not before. God’s calling is enough to get us started. It isn’t the end of the process, but it establishes the fellowship. Men do not have the right to ask for more than God does in order for fellowship to begin.
Of course, if we read the verse with twenty centuries of Christian doctrine in our minds, we will think that Paul is against circumcision in general and that Paul converted from Judaism to Christianity. Nothing could be further from the truth, although it is quite convenient to think so. Perhaps we need to start our examination of Paul’s writings by first noting that Paul remained a Torah-observant Jew (by his own admission) and that “conversion” is never ascribed to Paul or any of the other Jewish Messianic believers.
It’s our culture that prevents us from reading Paul properly. It’s time to read Sha’ul in his own culture.
Topical Index: circumcision, Titus 1:10-11
Good morning everyone. I’ve been up very early this morning doing a search. Jewish roots of Christianity. Actually should be the Hebrew roots of Christianity. None the less I end up here. Skip you’ve done it again when all else fails skip the rest. And go to. Skip LOL. This is another foundational post Market down get it on the Hebrew sites that you’re involved with and more. Grace and Torah is the one that I have in mind. Goodreads is another one. To go forward sometimes we must go backward many more steps to be on a strong Foundation. I watched again on Day of Discovery. From RBC Ministries.. Which gives us the famous booklet Our Daily Bread. Millions of copies are in print. It goes back several decades. the opening line in the video is the split hadn’t happened yet. Which split the split between Jews and Christians. They all came to the temple to be baptized. again Christian thought is there was a split that was the mindset of today. But not in the early church . For a Jew to become a believer remained a Jew I will never give up. The truth Remains the Same. I remember the Hebrew Christian Alliance Church. Where Hebrews were allowed to Hebrews. Not only that but is in should be an essential beginning to this Christian faith. Keep on preaching skip go to the Mountaintop and let the world be told that a blazing torch she’ll come out of Zion !!!!!!
I think one of the big problems ‘Christians’ have with ‘conversion’ is that they consider it as an end, not a beginning. With greasy grace, the only thing we do is the Sinner’s Prayer and Jesus does the rest, but being born again is talking about a birth into life; not an end of life as we know it. Accepting Jesus into your heart is not the end of responsibility; it is the beginning. Torah is not killed on the cross; it is established FOR US.
If you suffer from a paradigm that wants to avoid responsibility (which Torah spells out) you will read everything with those glasses. Christians thanks to Rome, were handed a belief system that required all real choice to be handed over to authority. To make this palatable to the flesh, Catholics got handed the morning after pill (confession) as well as the Nexplanon implant (indulgences) and Protestants, not to be outdone, got sold greasy grace in which the devil made me do it, but that’s all right because Jesus will fix it.
If Torah entails responsibility, we can look at the last 2000 years as one long hikacking attempt to avoid it. That isn’t to say all Christians everywhere fell for the hoax. Especially Protestants, who had the Bible, but too many of them, fresh out of Catholicism, just exchanged one set of glasses for another, instead of learning to read for themselves. Most of those who did read for themselves ended up over here, and this country was founded by those who were dedicated to taking the responsibility the Law spelled out, but only a few made it completely out of Babylon.
That call still rings, now more than ever. If we are to stop following authorities who tell us to hand over responsibility to them, we are going to have to take it back ourselves. Torah tells us how.
What’s the “law of Christ”? And yes, there are always extremes. I’ve seen Christians who are so concerned about grace that they live in disobedience assuming Christ did everything so they don’t need to worry about it.
Thanks, Skip. Can you provide a reference for where you got those 5 steps for a Gentile to become an Israelite? Is this listed in some of the Midrashes, or Talmud? I’d like to read the reference. Thanks!
Mark, I am not sure if this is the same one Skip used but its the one I’ve used before…I cant post links, so, got to Jewfaq101 then do a search “Jewish attitudes toward non-jews”. Its the last paragraph at the bottom. The order of things required for conversion are a little different then what Skip posted but they are all there.
Shabbat Shalom
Thanks. I also found a tidbit in the Mishnah Berakhot 7:1 about a proselyte not being fully converted until he had undergone both circumcision and immersion. I looked it up on sefaria.org and did a search for “proselyte”.
I struggle with this quite honestly. How could Paul make the declaration that circumcision isn’t a requirement when the Torah states that in order for someone to partake of Passover, they must be circumcised (Ex 12:48)? AND if you are a convert to Judaism, then Passover is a required holy day to observe, right? So when you follow this through, a requirement for all Gentiles to be circumcised seems very legit and in accordance with Torah. In fact, when the Gentiles observe Passover, the Torah states they are to do so in accordance to the Passover ordinance (Num 9:14) – this includes circumcision. Can someone help clarify?
Mark, remember the children born in the wilderness were not circumcised until Joshua had them do it before they entered the land and they would of been about twenty. I think they still kept the feast of Passover while still in wilderness with there families and we’re not forbidden.
Actually, Pam, the rite of circumcision was forbidden the wandering years as it was the sign of the covenant, and the Passover was not observed, either, until the Children had crossed the Jordan and had been circumcised again (Joshua 5:10), as all the previous circumcised had died in the wilderness, as promised (including Aaron and Moses), with the exception of Caleb and Joshua, of course.
There is, however, an open question as to whether the ordinance of the Last Supper is a transformation of the Passover, for the command of Yeshua was to observe it “in remembrance of Me (not in remembrance of Egypt, which the Passover is)”. To my knowledge, this subject has not come up yet on this forum (please, someone, correct me). This would not negate Passover observance, necessarily, for we see both being observed in the New Testament, but it might have transferred the COMMAND from Passover to Supper, with Passover becoming optional, or even additional, with perhaps a different emphasis. I know a lot of Seders observed by Messianics, say, attempt to incorporate both. I have not seen this topic fleshed out well, yet, frankly, and have wondered if we wanted to get into it at some point, if Skip wanted to, anyway.
I think Skip has touched on this subject very lightly, maybe even suggesting it as something to explore in the future. It seems to be filed away somewhere in my memory. 🙂
Laurita, I have always thought it notable that the circumcision of the men took place AFTER they “crossed over” the Jordan, rather than BEFORE they were allowed to enter the land. It gives me something to consider in that order of events.
From therefinersfire dot org
Circumcision comes after Faith as it did for Avraham (Romans 4:12). While the wise Rabbis may disagree with the idea of the uncircumcised being allowed to partake in the Passover meal, the fact is, the Apostles taught that one is to bring the Gentiles into the fold slowly, by not levying on them ALL the Torah at once, and helping them build and grow in their understanding, observing their growth, and allowing them to change their hearts such that when they reach that “ah-ha!” moment (i.e., when they “get it”), they no longer have to be taught by man, but by the Ruach haKodesh (Holy Spirit). Since the Messiah, the Living Word, was given to all, then the participation in the Passover by a seeking, uncircumcised Gentile is not only permitted, but highly desired.
Here is my opinion, Mark, for what it’s worth. Acts 15 makes very clear that the Jerusalem leaders of the Messianic community decided on four requirements for Gentiles wishing to join with the Jewish believers. Circumcision was not one of them. People are not required to become Jews. He is the God of Israel, but God wants all people everywhere to worship Him. As Gentiles, we worship the true God, the God of Israel, alongside Jewish believers. But we remain just that–Gentiles. The Jewish people have always held Gentile God-fearers in high esteem. But they are just that–Gentiles. If everyone was required to become Jewish, that would be saying that God is the God of Jews only.
In Colossians 2:11, Paul reassured Gentile believers that they had been circumcised, as it were, in heart. They were fully accepted as joining with His people. People who trust Messiah are fully equal, but they don’t become clones. They remain Jews. They remain Gentiles. They remain male. They remain female. And so forth.
So…the question becomes, how much of Torah applies to Gentile believers? And that is an unending discussion! Look at history. God’s people have always indulged freely in differences of opinion, arguments, discussions, questions, and many moments without answers. We talk, we learn, we love.
….. to which I would add, Yeshua criticized the Pharisees for their strict observance (physical circumcision) according to their interpretation of the law and not the spirit of the law (circumcision of the HEART), the intent of the law, without saying that physical circumcision was ended.
I hear what you’re saying, but circumcision doesn’t have anything to do with becoming Jewish. It’s a sign between God’s people (the children of Abraham and adopted children) and God. I do appreciate everyone’s response. Good stuff. Thanks.
Also, I’m not so sure we’re still Gentiles now that we’ve been adopted children. I would say we’re like the Egyptians who left with the Israelites during the Exodus. If they followed certain rules, they were considered “native born” Israelites.
Gentile is an ETHNIC designation. It’s about how you were born. No one stops being a Gentile by becoming a follower. Jewish proselytes were considered Jews in the technical sense of observation but they were still born Gentiles. Conversion of Gentiles to Jewish ways of living does not make them Jews. However, the steps necessary to become Jewish (if you were not born Jewish) included both circumcision and baptism. The problem is that JEWISH is both ETHNIC and RELIGIOUS. It’s hard not to confuse the two, but we must try. Gentile is not the same as PAGAN which is a religious designation of someone who serves a god other than YHVH.
Here is what I have learned on circumcision and passover. We as gentiles do not kill a passover lamb and partake of it. We are outside the land and there is no temple. It is partaking of the passover lamb that requires circumcision. It seems to me that Paul did not require circumcision from Timothy until he took him to Jerusalem and was planning on partaking of the passover lamb.
This is my understanding also, Brenda
I love the fact that you take the time to do this for us…
I find it interesting that we make such a big deal about those who required circumcision in the new testament when most churches do the very same thing. Some say that we cannot be a part unless we are baptized in their church, have taken their caticism and promise that we believe the same as they do. And there is a whole list of things you must do or not do before they will truly admit you. No smoking, drinking, etc, You must go to church every Sunday. Read your bible so many minutes a day. etc…Judgement is heavy if everything you say and do isn’t like what they few a good Christian is to be like. Not to different from requiring circumcision in my thinking.
“That does not mean Torah is set aside. Participation in the community requires adopting the norms of the community, so Torah will eventually become the way of life for these Gentiles.” Skip, are you trying to say with this statement that Gentile believers who accept Yeshua, as their Savior/Redeemer should eventually be circumcised? If yes, then why was circumcision not part of what the the requirements listed in Acts? I have been a follower of Yeshua for the past 50+ years and a Sabbath observer and some feats for the past 46 years. YHWH’s spirit has never impressed on me to become circumcised-I was not born in the USA…
Acts 15 is not about the requirements for a Gentile WITHIN the community. That’s not the issue. The council was concerned about the Gentiles who were asking to come into the community because they had embraced Yeshua. So, circumcision is not an ENTRANCE requirement. This is Paul’s argument against the Jewish contingent who argued that you could not ENTER the community without circumcision. I wrote about this long ago. Paul argues that if you are called by God, then you need to be accepted regardless of your prior status or current situation. There are only 4 things that must be ab abandoned. All of them have to do with PAGAN worship. I also wrote about this. They are NOT Noahide laws (you can compare the two lists). Finally, as the prophets tell us, in the Millennial Kingdom, TORAH will be the rule of the land from everyone heart, so I suppose circumcision will also be ubiquitous.