Conversation and Identity
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; Genesis 1:26a NASB
Image/likeness – According to a footnote in my Siddur, a synonym for nefesh hayah in the Mishnah (Bava Kanna 2a) is mav’eh which the Talmud derives from the root ba’ah (to ask, request, seek). Furthermore, Onkelos renders nefesh hayah as “speaking spirit” (ruah mamlal’). The implication is significant. Our identity is tied directly to our conversation with each other and our Maker.
We learned how dependent we are from a previous examination of this verse. We are the ones who owe. We are defined by our debt—for life, for self-awareness, for community. In this regard, Hebrew thought is exactly the opposite of the Western, Greek idea that Man exists as an independent, self-determining, free agent in the world. That Western idea is responsible for some of the greatest evils in human history. Yet most of us have embraced it without any serious consideration. Now the Hebrew verse, which we have read far too long as an endorsement of our own Western cultural assumptions, forces us to reconsider everything about what it means to be human. If, as the Talmud suggests, you and I are human because we are speaking beings, then we cannot exist independently. Conversation requires relationship. If Genesis 1:26 is correct, you and I must be involved with each other and with God if we are going to be fully human as intended. Community is not optional.
This new year (by Western tradition) should start us on a path of greater and greater inter-involvement. We should do all we can to foster deeper dependency. We must make a commitment to conversation without which human life will not flourish. That includes the essential conversation with the One Who designed us as speaking beings. As Heschel remarked, “He who has never prayed is not fully human.”[1] If there is anything necessary in this world of dysfunctional Man, it is engagement with each other. Prayer is the first and last element of this human conversation. How would your relationships change if your conversations began with, “Would you pray with me before we start to talk?”
Genesis 1:26 initiates the conversation. It begins from God’s side. “Let us make Man” is the opening remark. He awaits the reply.
Topical Index: speaking being, nefesh hayah, mav’eh, ba’ah, to ask, Genesis 1:26
[1] Abraham Heschel, Man’s Quest for God, p. 78
Just out of curiosity Skip, (this isn’t a “counter”, but genuine curiosity) how does this term, as “speaking” spirits apply to the animal kingdom and is it addressed?
I don’t understand your question Robert. Obviously animals can and do relate with each other, alpha males in a group, mating, nurturing, attacking, defending etc. but how can this be understood as anything more than innate nature? They do what comes naturally. Same as a sunflower following the sun.
Genesis provides two different spellings of “being” to distinguish between human and animal life. This shows similarities as well as difference. I’m pretty sure I wrote about this years ago. There is also a reference in Guardian Angel
thank you.
Now I get your question…….. and the answer.
Conversation requires not only speaking but hearing. That is true communication. Reading through this brings to mind someone I know who talks all the time. I have noticed lately that when I say something to them, they either do not hear or they repeat back something not even remotely like what was said. Relationship demands connection, vulnerability, communication with other, not just self. Self-focus refuses to hear but demands to be heard. Sadly, I recognize how often my “conversation” with YHVH has been more like this than not.
WORDS!
Ultimately, how do we know God?
Through words. His Word. (Do we hear?)
“The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.”
As His ambassadors, we share His Word as we converse with
all we meet. (Do they hear?)
“For the word of God is living and active.”
From the beginning to this moment, His Word is the essence of everything that is.
So, yes, let’s pray. Then we’ll talk. (And hopefully hear.)
John 1. 1-14
(using the Erasmus translation for logus as the guiding light,
a rendering by musician Clive Scott)
It all arose out of a conversation,
conversation within God, in fact the
conversation was God. So, God started the
discussion, and everything came out of this,
and nothing happened without consultation.
This was the life, life that was the light of men,
shining in the darkness, a darkness which
neither understood nor quenched its creativity.
John, a man sent by God, came to remind
people about the nature of the light so that
they would observe. He was not the subject
under discussion, but the bearer of an
invitation to join in.
The subject of the conversation, the original
light, came into the world, the world that had
arisen out of his willingness to converse. He
fleshed out the words but the world did not
understand. He came to those who knew the
language, but they did not respond. Those
who did became a new creation (his children),
they read the signs and responded.
These children were born out of sharing in
the creative activity of God. They heard the
conversation still going on, here, now, and
took part, discovering a new way of being people.
To be invited to share in a conversation
about the nature of life, was for them, a glorious
opportunity not to be missed.
Clive Scott ©
Skip you ask a very interesting question… Will you pray with me before we converse?
I am one who is of the opinion that God knows before we ask so the only thing I can really ask is let Thy will be done not mine.
Sometime ago you commented on how we pray for our desires or needs and goals or plans… For me this does not show our dependence on God but our ability to try and justify our way of doing something as orchestrated by God.
Back to your question. This world would be a different place if we prayed before doing anything requesting God’s guidance and then waiting for it by staying in the breaking of the bread until empowered or shown by the spirit of truth what to do. I think we are honestly too impatient to adapt this lifestyle as we must give unto our natural masters…
But as Solomon reminded us we should acknowledge or involve God in all our paths and He will straighten or level our ways. Prov 3
Sounds much the same as Yeshau instruction before Pentecost to remain in Jerusalem until empowered or driven by the holy spirit to do what must be done.
Is this what you meant with your question or is it just a thought for us to ponder on?
I am going to walk into the delicate here. Let me start by saying I was raised in the Way. From my earliest recollections, I have Believed. Maybe not always walked like I believed. I always followed, mostly because if I didn’t I would be in trouble. Then in my young adult years, I chose to follow, was baptized and committed personally. I really have never doubted. My seed sat fallow for a while (some years), then my belief system was tested, and at that point, upon my personal investigation (do I do this because I was taught, or is it really there, in the Bible), it became mine. 20 some years have passed, life has happened, I have grown and matured in many ways. Now, after Believing all my life, truly considering myself Dependent upon God, my greatest fear being considered a few years ago – “Oh my, what if He is not Righteous?” I had never considered such a thought! But it had to be considered. I realized no matter “Who” God is, I would only choose to serve a Righteous God. More time passes, I am ok again…until…it is truly posed to me (not what I really wanted to consider, but put on my plate). HOW do I KNOW He is there, He is Real, He is the God we read about and Believe, as the Bible describes? Here I am a Believer, all my life, and at this stage of my life I am agonizing over the consideration that I have never really Heard Him.
So here is the Most basic of faith questions. How doe we KNOW He is there? He is who we believe and understand? That he Cares for us. All this conversation about the details in the Bible, what it this and that word mean first must be based on these other questions.
This brings us back to the writing of today. A Conversation. I pray. My heart wants to pray. I Yearn to Believe, Hope, Trust. But I don’t really hear back. How do I know, Believe He is in my (our lives), not just stories in the pages of a book? Truly, I can hardly believe I am in this place, but here it is. And as you stated recently, Skip, we must Cry that He will Hear and Answer our cry so that doubt is no longer and we can be all the Stronger and Better tools in His Hands.
ps…a bit nervous to post this 🙂
I felt this way about 12 years ago when my life would just not take shape in the direction I wanted to go. I was told to return to previous belief systems which I could not because I sought more clarity by reading more scriptures.
Then I wrote down my heart felt yearnings ad questions to God in the back of my book. I then left it there and continued doing what I could barely make ends meat.
Then out of the blue I sacrifice what I desperately needed to survive to feed a new born baby. Why I do not know it was the most natural thing I wanted to do.
A lot of water has passed since. I still have not started to pray as everyone says we should but I verbalize my questions out load. Keep my prayers silent but keep doing internal Thanksgiving whenever my silent prayers are proven to be answered.
Questioning the existence of God is not on my agenda. Worshiping as depicted in the scripture not a thought. Living in humble guided acceptance is all I do.
Have I reached my desires NO. Have I lived fully YES. Do I anger EVERY DAY often. Do I forgive and help others easier than before.
So I cannot answer your question I can just share my similar experience and struggle and how it kind of sort itself out by just trusting in God as knower and guide of all…
Thank you for your very genuine and kind reply. I guess I hope and pray in my request, that He will answer the Cry. In some ways this spot in the journey is good. Really makes you evaluate what you Value. What you will and won’t do. How you will and won’t worship. In the end, if He is not there, I am not sure anything matters anyway. My husband entered this phase of the journey several years ago. I could hear him, but really did not understand the cry of the heart because I was Secure in my belief. Now that the vacancy has been made known to me, the cry is rather deeper and I can understand. To his credit, my husband, has given me comfort in that he keeps seeking – falls in his faith sometimes, but in his heart he still believes. He says that the heavens declare YHVH’s glory, even when we don’t physically comprehend Him in our personal life. Funny thing is, my heart says He just Has to be there – so I HOPE. Thanks again for your comment.
Dear Paula, I think we never learned to ‘see God’ in every day life. If you are interested in different line of thinking, I highly recommend listening to Rabbi David Aaron’s teachings on ‘Seeing God’. You can find them on his website isralight dot com under Media Library. It has helped me to realize that I have experienced God all my life and I never knew it was Him. I know what it means to be created in His image and He is so real and so close and I KNOW that I am one with Him in the same as Y’shua was one with Him. I can now see the Almighty in action every day in all people.
Migdalah, I have appreciated that link.
Paula, you have asked the best question of all: a question that demands an answer! You are so brave!
I found myself there several years ago. My conversation started out with a lot of anger, because that was, honestly, where I was. I challenged God to answer me, and the conversation began, because I realized that I had never had the faith in my life that He was there that is required to be able to listen. Listening was what I was not doing before because I did not have the faith He was there.
It takes humility to talk with God. We must learn by experience how to exercise that humility: humility that says “I don’t know this”; “I need You”; “I have a problem I have no way to fix”: “where are You?”. And expect an answer.
How does He answer me? If I am experiencing doubt that I TAKE TO HIM, and have faith that He hears me, I lay myself open to the answer of love, which is the gift of faith. This is what the Bible teaches us to do. I stay there, needing faith; facing my need, until I am honest enough to give Him the room to give me what I need.
If I see something I don’t know, I ask – and then listen. Usually the conviction comes instantly; sometimes it comes faster than I can get the question out. I have NEVER not been answered. I need to ask all day long! The other half of the conversation is so distinctly different than what I would have ever been able to imagine or think, I know the convictions come from Him. It is an answer in the heart. Listening is about opening up your heart to a conviction of the truth. How do you do that? By determining to follow whatever you receive. That determination is what opens the channel. Practice with your Bible, which is what I did at first, because I knew I did have faith to believe what was in that, so I took that determination to the Book and read with the intent to install whatever I got convicted by. It instantly got interactive, and I began to see things that I had never seen when I read before. That built my faith in the Spirit.
I got none of this until I took where I was really at MYSELF – in full honesty – to Him. That is the only place He can dialogue with us. You are getting very close to that place. I would want to say; put on the ears of your heart (and take off your shoes)! This is where it started to get VERY interesting to me.
Wow, ok, not sure I fully understand all of that…but I think I hear you. I will have to save this writing so I can remind myself when I get off track. Truthfully, there is that part of me (us) that gets a little scared of Him. But then there is that other part (need) to Know that all we “Believe”, this path we are on, is not just a fantasy – again, stories in a book from long ago. Thank you for sharing this with me, for writing it clearly so I may be able to use it. I Love YHVH, with my Heart – in some ways, He is my only love – in part because I think that is where love begins. It Breaks my heart to not be Sure of HIm – to Trust and Need Him the way I think I do. Again, thank you.
I woke up and was praying for you, Paula, when it struck me that you were describing something that I found I was suffering from years ago. Your inability to hear back from YHVH reminded me of what I know to be the most common thing that can prevent people from hearing Him and that is the occult.
Your symptoms seem to share some of the most common ‘side effects’, if you will, of messing around in some way – even inadvertently – with the dark side. We can be left with confusion, doubt, indecision, with our identity and the identity of Him ‘occluded’, or, covered over by, a false identity. We could have been sideswiped, if you will, with these other ways of thinking or practicing, that are not of God, but can be left with terrible spiritual fog. You sound like you are in one of those fogs. I was, too! It doesn’t matter how you got there, there is a great way back out, and that is repentance. If you have not specifically repented for all that you recognize that is not of God, do so. THEN (here was the fun part for me) recognize that all the mindsets that do not look like His mind (or the one we were created with, either), we can repent for and He will take it away! I suffered from so much ‘noise’ (for lack of a better word) internally I could not even hear myself think! After I repented for all this stuff, it got quiet in there. Real quiet. I was not tormented any more.
Look for residual mindsets that are occluding your mind from the clarity you were created with and get rid of them through prayer and persistence. Renewing your mind means tearing down strongholds in the brain. Some of it goes away really fast, some of it I found I had to attack with repentance several times.
Look for all this ungodly stuff: escapism, amorphous, baseless shame and guilt (for no apparent reason) confusion, fear of failure, fear of man (or self) fear of abandonment, fear of rejection, fear of being found out, self conflict; doublemindedness (a big one for me) causing indecision, self accusation, denial, loneliness, rejection depression (yes, that is not of God and you can repent for it!) insanity, inverted thinking, deep hurt, all unloving feelings that block you from giving and receiving love freely. The biggies are fear, unloving, self bitterness, self pity (the very biggest thing of all for most of us), contentiousness in any form, rebellion against authority (to keep yourself ‘safe’). The one that kept me in CFS was DRIVENNESS AND PERFORMANCE based on fear. Repent for idolatry in general, fear of letting go all false comforters (which the occult offers us in abundance), pride (“I can handle this myself; i don’t need anyone”), denial (another huge problem for me) a sense of unworthiness, and all ungodly mindsets we got from our parents and other authority. Whew!
I would be happy to share more specific help that I have archived that I found helpful for my freedom, if you want, and you (or anyone else) could see if anything was useful. If so, feel free to email me at lauritahayes at g mail.com
Thank you again. In Some ways, amazingly you hit the nail on the head. Again, raised in the way, no real doubts to speak of, trusting. Not perfect, plenty of sins by others and self, nothing new there, plenty to repent of,ok. But still trusting.
(Note, I often think that “my” struggle is not just me. I pray for those who struggle like I am.)
In this journey, we test things so we can determine what is true. Many things I have been taught have a decent premise, but in study and consideration adjustments have to be made. Where you hit the nail (not that some of your other considerations are not possible), but I have heard some arguments that give reason for the deep anxiety I am struggling with. Arguments that God, or the God as we believe does not exist. You are right in the need to repent, for lack of faith, for doubting YHVH.
That said, when looking back, I still have not Heard Him, hence the realization of lack of faith. Make sense?
I Want to See,Hear,Understand, to be His faithful servant and tool. I am hoping this being lost and seeking is a tool of His to bring me closer to Him, that I can be these things, but I have to get through this first.
I appreciate your explanation of the process to learning how to hear Him. I will try. I feel rather ignorant, but I guess that is part of the point. Again, I Pray not for just me, but the Many struggling in this part of the journey.
I am amazed at your insightfulness. THANK you for thinking and praying for me, for this conversation. I think it would be a wonderful, though incredibly spiritually Full, but to share a Feast with Skip, and people of this forum.
Paula, you know we eat with each other’s forks. I eat when you do!
I pray for all us strugglers, as I have learned that we go as fast as the slowest and littlest, me most of all.
I think we may doubt God’s existence to the extent we don’t have a good awareness of our own existence, and we extrapolate ourselves onto Him as we have ourselves as the starting point. That’s not wrong; that’s where we are at, so we go from there. Self doubt can be sneaky and look like righteousness, but it is still a sin. I suffered from severe abandonment issues, and this is something that is ongoing for me: realizing my identity in real space and time is hard! Be gentle with yourself, and be where you are. He still knows how to find you just fine, even though you can’t do any of it. He is the One Who finds us, after all. Sit still and holler really loud; that sounds silly but I went through a period where I did that and heard myself for the first time. I suffer from really stupid stuff!
Your journey resonated with me, and brought back memories. May you be blessed. Tolkein’s poem used to be of comfort to me years ago:
All that glitters is not gold
Not all that wander are lost
The old that is strong does not wither
Deep roots are not touched by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken
From the darkness a new light shall spring
Forged shall be sword that was broken
The crownless again will be king.
Somewhere in the darkness, inexplicably, the doubt dropped away, right in the place it was operating the strongest, of all things. That old liar! All sin lies!. I tried trust in microsecond doses at first, while I was figuring out what it was, until I got used to doing it longer. I pretended: I “put on Christ” like C.S. Lewis described, and, what do you know, it worked! Remember, this is not a test; this is guess-and-check, with no penalties.
P. S. if you want to counteract previous doubts with something constructive to renew your mind with, try looking up Pascal’s Wager. Its been around a long time.