Which He gifts to “some” but not to others…His prerogative.
Jerry and Lisa
In thinking about this, I believe that there is, indeed, some talent that is extraordinary. However, I also believe that many people could do a lot of what is required to produce a work like this, such as to learn the knowledge of how to do it, the imagination that is required, and the physical ability to do it. But here’s what I think is amazing about this and other works like this; that someone would be able and willing to devote such time and intensity of mental and physical effort day after day after day, over very long periods of time, for months and even years to gain the experience and then to give the very long period of time needed to produce even one work of this caliber. That’s what amazes me! Not having some unattainable knowledge, skill, talent, or ability, but the obsession, the devotion, the sacrifice of so much of one’s entire being to produce such a work. It really is remarkable, I guess! But I do have to wonder, in God’s value system, is it worth it? Is it His will for mankind to do such a thing, like this or other such things like climbing Mount Everest or sailing around the world or beating an Olympic World Record? Would it be classified as carnality, worldliness, sensuality, even idolatrous? Is it just “the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye, the boastful pride of life”?
I’m not sure. I suppose it probably is, being that He is beautiful, creates beauty, and we were created in His likeness/image, I suppose not only to be beautiful but to create beauty as He does. I suppose what I am wondering is if some greater good may be sacrificed or if even harm may be done by some people’s “extreme” creative endeavors and/or other exploits and “achievements” that seem to be beautiful or amazing. We see the end product of someone’s extraordinary creative endeavor or achievements, but maybe not the ungodly sacrifices or wrong done in the process.
I agree with your analysis here, if beauty (or any other endeavor) is engaged in at another’s expense, it shouldn’t be attempted. If it causes a devaluation of another, its “sinful”. Look at Gods heart in the creation process, it never “costs” others, it only enhances. Enter modern economics. Much, if not all of the “creative ability” is produced by the common man, yet, the benefit goes to others by design. Unfortunately, they “give up” their God given talent (that has been honed to a fine edge) for a modest sum and are quite happy to live in their accomplishments of the past while certain ones make a fortune off their talents. It shouldn’t be so, we are the only ones who can change that. We, as God fearers, need to weigh ourselves in regards to these things. Have you heard about grace? Or is it just a theological concept? Would you rather “fail” in being successful rather than to cost another, or will you convince yourself that, somebody has to benefit and it might as well be you. These are some of the things that grieve me now, and deeply challenge me. I would suppose that if we, as “Christians”, we’re to be Christians first and business men after, we would be successful as Christians first. Bereshith!
As a lifelong successful businessman I can relate to your comments Robert and I agree. But I weigh your comment “if we, as “Christians”, we’re to be Christians first and business men after, we would be successful as Christians first.” Yes. Ideally. But in reality today businessmen’s success is determined largely by the money and their paradigm, not many by their Christian ethics and I guess that is essentially what you are saying and maybe that is the problem.
I’m not sure where I stood in business as an RCC Christian when I started 55 years ago at 22 years of age but I learned from my father that in business you are only as good as your name, your reputation and it was his name on his company in Canada and thousands of miles away it became my name on my company for the same reason when I asked him what to name it. I never learned Christian ethics in any formal or informal context but I always remembered what he said and it was in a practical context, not biblical for sure. I don’t think either he or I wanted to be defined as a “Christian” businessman as such as some do.
When I sold my business in Europe to operate his company 17 years later, many people were sadly surprised at my decision for either personal or business reasons to leave, or they were happy for me with my decision. I was amazed. Why? I didn’t understand because for me the job of doing what I did was to be expected, the objective, nothing special. We just got the job done, as agreed. It was satisfaction that I enjoyed and delivered as it should be. The money was the result, a way to keep score, not the objective. I didn’t know any other way. Our successor daughter to our current and last business does the same today and our older customers greet and hug my wife and me when they see us return for a moment.
I think artists are the same, they do what they HAVE to do and money has nothing to do with it. They live in a different world than me. That is my wife. She would never and has never sold one of her many prize-winning quilts but she will give them away happily to anyone she deems worthy to enjoy or benefit from. They can raise thousands of dollars each for a charity and nothing makes her happier with or without a tax receipt. She is my pride and joy and anything but my alter ego.
Chicken or egg, we are both just trying to figure that one out. We don’t have a creed or a doctrine. We are monotheistic Messianic believers, followers, and are most definitely blessed and thank God daily for it. Shalom.
p.s. I haven’t forgotten your request re stem cell treatment.
Thank you that you have placed a weight on this response. It’s as you said, the job of doing, was to be expected. I’m not saying that the “Christian” lifestyle will be approved of or accepted, but that if we walk what we say, no matter what the “attitude” displayed we can’t be accused of hypocrisy. That’s business in its truest form, but business isn’t about product, it’s about people. You know that, and as such is the kingdom of Heaven. Babylon has the souls of men to barter with, it’s never so in the kingdom of Heaven. Let us make man in our Image, it doesn’t say anything about the selling of those souls for profit, only for a right relationship. Isn’t it amazing how we find that biblical principles work in reality, unfortunately it’s often the long road that’s nessecary to determine it. Shalom to you and yours as well, just wondering how the stem cell thingy went with you all and if you’re doing well.
The short answer is very well. Penny is off Celebrex for the first time in 4/5 years and is doing things again that she never thought would be possible. My knees are in good condition now when I should be in recovery mode from replacement that was scheduled for May. I had PRP treatment for neuropathy as well but I can only report modest change for that but it is not debilitating. We are very grateful for what we have. Thanks for asking. Keep posting, I like them. Au revoir.
To answer your question , the skill and knowledge that comes from the master builder!
Which He gifts to “some” but not to others…His prerogative.
In thinking about this, I believe that there is, indeed, some talent that is extraordinary. However, I also believe that many people could do a lot of what is required to produce a work like this, such as to learn the knowledge of how to do it, the imagination that is required, and the physical ability to do it. But here’s what I think is amazing about this and other works like this; that someone would be able and willing to devote such time and intensity of mental and physical effort day after day after day, over very long periods of time, for months and even years to gain the experience and then to give the very long period of time needed to produce even one work of this caliber. That’s what amazes me! Not having some unattainable knowledge, skill, talent, or ability, but the obsession, the devotion, the sacrifice of so much of one’s entire being to produce such a work. It really is remarkable, I guess! But I do have to wonder, in God’s value system, is it worth it? Is it His will for mankind to do such a thing, like this or other such things like climbing Mount Everest or sailing around the world or beating an Olympic World Record? Would it be classified as carnality, worldliness, sensuality, even idolatrous? Is it just “the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eye, the boastful pride of life”?
Is it not God’s will to bring beauty to creation?
I’m not sure. I suppose it probably is, being that He is beautiful, creates beauty, and we were created in His likeness/image, I suppose not only to be beautiful but to create beauty as He does. I suppose what I am wondering is if some greater good may be sacrificed or if even harm may be done by some people’s “extreme” creative endeavors and/or other exploits and “achievements” that seem to be beautiful or amazing. We see the end product of someone’s extraordinary creative endeavor or achievements, but maybe not the ungodly sacrifices or wrong done in the process.
I agree with your analysis here, if beauty (or any other endeavor) is engaged in at another’s expense, it shouldn’t be attempted. If it causes a devaluation of another, its “sinful”. Look at Gods heart in the creation process, it never “costs” others, it only enhances. Enter modern economics. Much, if not all of the “creative ability” is produced by the common man, yet, the benefit goes to others by design. Unfortunately, they “give up” their God given talent (that has been honed to a fine edge) for a modest sum and are quite happy to live in their accomplishments of the past while certain ones make a fortune off their talents. It shouldn’t be so, we are the only ones who can change that. We, as God fearers, need to weigh ourselves in regards to these things. Have you heard about grace? Or is it just a theological concept? Would you rather “fail” in being successful rather than to cost another, or will you convince yourself that, somebody has to benefit and it might as well be you. These are some of the things that grieve me now, and deeply challenge me. I would suppose that if we, as “Christians”, we’re to be Christians first and business men after, we would be successful as Christians first. Bereshith!
The chicken or the egg?
As a lifelong successful businessman I can relate to your comments Robert and I agree. But I weigh your comment “if we, as “Christians”, we’re to be Christians first and business men after, we would be successful as Christians first.” Yes. Ideally. But in reality today businessmen’s success is determined largely by the money and their paradigm, not many by their Christian ethics and I guess that is essentially what you are saying and maybe that is the problem.
I’m not sure where I stood in business as an RCC Christian when I started 55 years ago at 22 years of age but I learned from my father that in business you are only as good as your name, your reputation and it was his name on his company in Canada and thousands of miles away it became my name on my company for the same reason when I asked him what to name it. I never learned Christian ethics in any formal or informal context but I always remembered what he said and it was in a practical context, not biblical for sure. I don’t think either he or I wanted to be defined as a “Christian” businessman as such as some do.
When I sold my business in Europe to operate his company 17 years later, many people were sadly surprised at my decision for either personal or business reasons to leave, or they were happy for me with my decision. I was amazed. Why? I didn’t understand because for me the job of doing what I did was to be expected, the objective, nothing special. We just got the job done, as agreed. It was satisfaction that I enjoyed and delivered as it should be. The money was the result, a way to keep score, not the objective. I didn’t know any other way. Our successor daughter to our current and last business does the same today and our older customers greet and hug my wife and me when they see us return for a moment.
I think artists are the same, they do what they HAVE to do and money has nothing to do with it. They live in a different world than me. That is my wife. She would never and has never sold one of her many prize-winning quilts but she will give them away happily to anyone she deems worthy to enjoy or benefit from. They can raise thousands of dollars each for a charity and nothing makes her happier with or without a tax receipt. She is my pride and joy and anything but my alter ego.
Chicken or egg, we are both just trying to figure that one out. We don’t have a creed or a doctrine. We are monotheistic Messianic believers, followers, and are most definitely blessed and thank God daily for it. Shalom.
p.s. I haven’t forgotten your request re stem cell treatment.
Thank you that you have placed a weight on this response. It’s as you said, the job of doing, was to be expected. I’m not saying that the “Christian” lifestyle will be approved of or accepted, but that if we walk what we say, no matter what the “attitude” displayed we can’t be accused of hypocrisy. That’s business in its truest form, but business isn’t about product, it’s about people. You know that, and as such is the kingdom of Heaven. Babylon has the souls of men to barter with, it’s never so in the kingdom of Heaven. Let us make man in our Image, it doesn’t say anything about the selling of those souls for profit, only for a right relationship. Isn’t it amazing how we find that biblical principles work in reality, unfortunately it’s often the long road that’s nessecary to determine it. Shalom to you and yours as well, just wondering how the stem cell thingy went with you all and if you’re doing well.
The short answer is very well. Penny is off Celebrex for the first time in 4/5 years and is doing things again that she never thought would be possible. My knees are in good condition now when I should be in recovery mode from replacement that was scheduled for May. I had PRP treatment for neuropathy as well but I can only report modest change for that but it is not debilitating. We are very grateful for what we have. Thanks for asking. Keep posting, I like them. Au revoir.