Acting Unexpectedly
“As for you, do not pray for this people, and do not lift up cry or prayer for them, and do not intercede with Me; for I do not hear you.” Jeremiah 7:16 NASB
Do not pray– As the West approaches collapse, religious leaders are often heard exhorting parishioners to pray for their nation. They wring their hands over same-sex “marriage,” abortion and political correctness, proclaiming that if we just turn back to the God of our heritage our nation will be restored to its once glorious splendor. Don’t be fooled. It’s not going to happen.
Just think about it. Do you suppose that returning to the God proclaimed by the post-Reformation Church will bring us back to biblical prosperity? How? The God of the Reformers was already an anti-Semitic, Jew-hating despot. Will returning to Him heal us? Maybe the solution is to admit our national adultery and legislate a Torah observant communal life. How has that worked out in the past? Does anyone seriously believe that a society can legislate personal morality? Weren’t there good people living during the reign of Josiah when God told His prophet not to pray for anyone because He was going to destroy them all? Did their pleas make any difference? Today’s religious leaders confuse individual repentance with societal renewal. God watches both. As Maimonides said somewhere, when wrath comes it sweeps away the righteous with the wicked. One of the less pleasant consequences of God’s promise to never again destroy the earth with a flood is that there are no more arks.
Jeremiah tried to object to God’s intentions for Israel. God told him to shut up. For a society that established its identity in a prophetic tradition, this was a mortal blow. The verse we so commonly misunderstand plays a crucial role here. It is not “Where there is no vision, the people are unrestrained,” (NASB) nor is it, “Where there is no revelation, the people cast off restraint;” (NKJV). Don’t read it as ḥāzôn (vision). Read it as ḥōzeh (seer). “Without a seer the people are out of control.”[1] A faith that is based in prophetic revelation doesn’t continue without prophets, and I do not mean soothsayers and prognosticators. Biblical prophecy has nothing to do with the “end times.”
Where does this leave us? Well, even if we are righteous, we should not expect to be airlifted out. Maimonides is probably correct. What we can do? Don’t do what’s expected. Don’t conform to mass maneuvering, even if the “mass” is Messianic. Live as best we can from the words of the prophets in collapsing Babylon, knowing that the God of paḥad is still God—and He will eventually make things right.
Topical Index: ḥōzeh, seer, prophet, Jeremiah 7:16, Proverbs 29:18
Very serious sharing here. I fully agree. We do wrestle against wickedness in High Places. And while you were in Italy, it possibly did reveal the truth about religion and it’s root! And that is the RCC and Rome gave her, her power. And the USA will do the same to her, just like Rome did before and it will be soon seen, as you are sharing the warning. Yes very soon!
Amen and emet.
This is sad but sobering. History shows us the truth of your message Skip. It makes me consider things from a very different perspective and one that is realistic I think. I greatly appreciate your ending thought- “Live as best we can from the words of the prophets in collapsing Babylon, knowing that the God of paḥad is still God—and He will eventually make things right.”
When the greatest Prophet of all stood in the market square the organized religion of that day dictated their conditions of acceptance to Him: their idea of what it would take for them to believe what He was saying – for them to believe in HIM as Messiah – but they were told in no uncertain terms that there was nothing heaven could do for their unbelief. He told them that if they could not accept what the prophets of yore had written of Him, there was no miracle He could do that would convince them. If you want to understand why people could not recognize who they claimed they were looking for, then I suggest that you just read what Skip has to teach about the paradigm. This is people of a certain paradigm looking for confirmation bias!
I think the popular paradigm of today is suffering from as much deviance from the prophecies of the “end times” and His second coming as theirs were from His first one. The first coming was about the Suffering Servant – the Saviour of the Gentiles – and the angels sang “peace on earth, good will to men”, but the popular paradigm of that day was adjusted for only the prophecies that referred to His second coming “in power and vengeance”. They didn’t want the Prince of Peace: they wanted someone who was coming to crush His enemies and establish a kingdom where only the righteous remained.
Today, the popular paradigm is all about looking for peace on earth and good will between men. Nobody, it seems, is adjusting for the judgment and vengeance and utter destruction that the prophets foretold of that second coming. We scold the Jews for getting the prophecies mixed up, but aren’t we doing it too? If we cannot accept what the prophets of yore wrote about that second coming – what He Himself told us about His return – then there will be no miracles that will convince us either, for we already have the paradigm wrong.
Laurita, I wrote this on a different blog a month ago, and I post it here with some variations and further words:
What does the prophetic burden of the Messiah look like?
“And as they led him away, they seized one Simon of Cyrene, who was coming in from the country, and laid on him the cross, to carry it behind Jesus. And there followed him a great multitude of the people and of women who were mourning and lamenting for him. But turning to them Jesus said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. For behold, the days are coming when they say, ‘Blessed are the barren and the wombs that never bore and the breasts that never nursed!’ Then they will begin to say to the mountains, ‘Fall on us,’ and to the hills, ‘Cover us.’ For is they do these things when the wood is green, what will happen when it is dry?” Luke 23:26-31 ESV
The KJV of this last verse: “For if they do these in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?”
“Green Tree” – the Messiah “Dry Tree” – the unrighteous
Here is our Messiah leaving such a signature on how to carry the prophetic burden. This is such a poignant scene and full of pathos! I am so glad Luke shared this powerful and moving moment of the intimate heart of our Shepherd. Our King had been beaten to a pulp, and yet He has the strength, endurance, and audaciousness to bring a loving word of rebuke to the “Daughters of Jerusalem” (They were crying out for Him concerning the mock trial and upcoming crucifixion). He loves His daughters! He is giving a strong prophetic warning, while on the road to giving up His life freely. The prophet feels and responds to moments differently . . . He hears, sees, and moves from the Father’s view.
Questions to consider for God’s prophetic people and prophets::
Whose burdens do they carry more, YHWH’s people or their own?
Are the Father’s children’s future calamity and suffering more important than their present situation and suffering?
Are their lives visible enough – “a city set on a hill” – so others can feel directly their unjust situations and sufferings, and from that place have a more legitimate and powerful prophetic voice?
What is more important to them, the Father’s burden and view or their own?
Is it easier for them to give words of prophecy, or to give up their lives daily for His purpose to be revealed and established in His people?
I agree totally. For your question –their own—it’s all about ME. Why? For when we put our trust in HIm, His burden is lighter than the ones we have or think we have and hang on to them’ With repentance,
He took all of our sins and the consequence of poor judgment and actions on Himself on the cross. What was Paul answer from God when ask for relief of his affliction 2 Co 12:9 (Sorry Paul) but ‘My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness’. Paul ‘s response, as should be ours. “Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses (plural) so that the power of Christ may rest upon me.”
I appreciate your heartfelt reply. I’m just not there. Not because it isn’t right for you but because the answer you provide are just too “churchy” for me now. The vocabulary is laced with all the right Christian platitudes but I have traveled the world over and I see that a lot of the time this Christian paradigm just doesn’t reach into the lives of people desperate for life and God. If his burden really is lighter, then why are believers world over abused, injured, killed, tortured, maimed? If he really did take all the sins and consequences to the cross (which is another theological claim that needs more investigation), then why do so many believers feel abandoned, alone, misunderstood? Why is human trauma still a major issue in the lives of so many who try to follow? No, the answer is not so simple. Paul found an answer through great pain, suffering and hardship. I’m not sure we won’t have to follow the same path if we really want to know what it means to have “life” in the Lord.
Skip, just read that reply. I thought I would check and see if there were any more responses from this morning and there were! Glad I checked back in. I totally agree with you and I’m struggling with some of the same ideas but your last sentence to me says so much. “If we really want to KNOW….” seems to be the crucial word to me as Oswald Chambers says making the real actual ! It’s easy to dip our toes in and feel the warmth of the water caressing our feet, we can even go in further and have a sense of what the water is like but until we actually dive ( surrender ourselves ) in we don’t have the experience of giving ourselves to the water! This is where I struggle! We seem to be so programmed with simple explanations because we have a need to understand or at least try to make sense of life ! Paul said, “that I might know him and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of his sufferings….”.
Lets see, I’m the guy with his head in the sand and now too churchy. Hummmmm I must be doing something right. I guess all I was trying to say, and that’s why I quoted Paul. I realize it’s not simple and there is no easy answer LIfe is tough, but in the toughness. the valleys, that’s where we learn; if we are open to it. The trials of life leads us,with God’s help (churchy), to a much higher level. After 94 years I have no doubt which path it will be it will be very similar to Paul if not the same. Skip you are gentle. Shalom
Did you mean “Gentile.” I wasn’t saying YOU were too churchy. I was saying that the answers you provided were too churchy FOR ME. Not all roads are the same even if we arrive at the same destination. And at 94, you are certainly entitled to the road you choose.
No I really meant gentle, in your response, And all life is a choice but in one sense we are what we believe and what we say. And if my words are too churchy for you, I’m comfortable with that — as you say we are entitled to the road you choose. We are the result of our choice.
Hi Skip: Sorry for the delay but I guess I was “Acting Unexpectedly” in my responses that were”too churchy” for you, though “heartfelt”. I shared this with my study group and even those who I disagree most often with were left wondering. In what way was I not only ‘churchy’ but was ‘too churchy’? I need to know your definition of churchy and especially too churchy. If I’m to communicate to/with you and others I need to learn and consider changing. It’s never too late, until the grave. Being “churchy” is bad enough but “too churchy”? No way. You having 5 thumb’s up responses, means considering change.
Shalom
Dear Ray,
“Too churchy” for me saying NOTHING about you. My path is different than yours. If you feel comfortable with the concepts and vocabulary of the Christian point of view, then great. Keep at it. The fact that you shared this with your study group probably indicates that you are right where you belong. But it isn’t my space. I have lots and lots of church teaching. Several degrees. Seminary. Etc. And what I find FOR ME is that the Church banters around words that most people have no idea where they came from or what they really mean. Like “Repentance” and “omniscience.” I’m searching for a different path. Not a different God and not a different Bible. Just a different way to read it so that it doesn’t assume all the Christian history of interpretation and a typically anti-Semetic orientation. But if that’s not your thing, so OK.
How do we connect Jeremiah 7:16 with Matthew 5:43-44?
Jeremiah, the way I read it, is referring to those who despise the word of YHVH and persecute His prophets. There is not a whole lot of intercession that we can do for that because these sins are directed against heaven; not us. All we can do is pray for their conviction. They don’t need our blessings: they need heaven’s curses.
Matthew is referring to those who despise and persecute us because these sins are directed toward us. There is a lot of authority we have to intercede for these folks because they can still be moved by our patience and forgiveness. We can – and are – ordered to bless this class directly, and not to curse them.
“Do not pray for this people ” might be the key to understanding the connection. If we step “further back” into the context, what do we see?
And if I add v45 of Matthew 5, and v46, again stepping further back… I’m wrestling with the texts and the paradigm I thought I knew that is no longer mine. And I’m glad to be on this wrestling team 🙂
I think you’re correct about that being the key. In Jeremiah, the people spoken of were those who were entering in at the temple gates to worship YHWH. These were people who are described as also worshiping Baal and the queen of heaven and they thought that they had been set free to commit all the abominations and it would be “ok” because the temple of YHWH (repeated 3 times) was in their midst. (and therefore YHWH) So, the rebuke was to those who proclaimed to follow God yet persisted in misrepresenting Him. Yeshua was speaking about those who would mistreat you in general and though it may cover “religious” people, it was also in regards to the “ungodly” as well. The ones who could make you carry their stuff for a while and those who would use the prevailing government to sue you. As a side note, I can’t seem to find that command about loving your neighbor but hating your enemy in scripture, (probably cuz it ain’t there) but He only said, “you’ve heard it said.” He never said it was written.
It would seem that when evil is done both in the name of God, and that those same people presume on His grace is when God takes it real personal and we find ourselves on the edge of destruction. Even in this late hour though, God tells the people, “if” you walk in my ways…..but He tells Jeremiah to chose not to pray for the end of these people. They came to a cross road, and it was decision time and it would play out accordingly. It’s not the world and the way they act that disturbs me so greatly today, they do what they have always done, but rather those who claim to represent God but insist on holding on to and propagating the ways of the world that makes me tremble so for our society.
Robert, how is it going?
The phrase quoted by Yeshua, “You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy” is a local saying found in the Qumran writings.
If I understand correctly:
Neighbor – those within the Essene community
Enemy – those outside the community (the rest of Israel)
Yeshua stood against the strong exclusive bias of this community.
Oh what a struggle! Jeremiah might have said “Huh?”. I know I did when I worked my way through the weeping prophet’s words. Then on to Matthew 5:43-44. Then on to John 17. Time out!
Reconciling what was being said sat me down for awhile. My mind was troubled until I carefully, over time, a long time I might add, unwrapped the happenings in the Garden. Sprinkling all this with the ‘other’ books/stories (call them what you may), something ‘clicked’ within my itsy, bitsy mind.
And yes, I’ll admit, it’s how Yah spoke to me regarding my perplexity over “pray/don’t pray” commands. Asking the deeper question (to Yah of course), “why ‘pray’ and ‘don’t pray’…”??? Or were you conveying something different? He spoke. I listened.
I’ll leave it here for now.
Most definite troubles for us!
Just a reminder that “there was light in Goshen” while all Egypt was in darkness. I trust in the words of assurance; YeHoVaH will guard and protect, I still reside in America, I must. I concur we are past the angle of repose.Like Abraham rather than condemn I will intercede . I belive we have more than ten rightious on this site alone whos lives merit the favor not condemnation of God. I think my friend Skip you see the half empty glass that I chose to see half full . Yahh can at any time fill it up or dry it out. I belive he must care more than we and still has a few tricks up his sleeve. I have lived most of my life fighting at the beach head of assults on our morality. Many cultural plagues have come from the very areas I live. Yet I stand and contend. What would happen if we all fled the battlefield because the fight is hopless.? “Having done all STAND”.
Amen to that. I have received too many promises from the Spirit that I am confident will be fulfilled in me and have been standing according to the word given me in 2 Chron.20:17 and Rom. 16:20. Did the Spirit not say that He must reign til Has has put all enemies under His feet and the last enemy is death (1Cor.15:23-25)? We have a Great High Priest reigning & continually interceding for us and as we align our will with His and by that Will (Heb. 10:10) He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. Let us go on to perfection and have revealed in us that perfect love that casts out all fear….all creation waits in eager expectation for the sons (and lovers) of God to be revealed (Rom.8:19). The world may have their 15 minutes but Jesus will have His Hour…
The Revelation of Ezekiel’s 13 scrolls is just so in line with how we should be preparing ourselves during this time from Babylon’s grip of every individual! Arise and do Yahuwah’s will as it is done in Heaven. His name is hallowed. His kingdom comes……..
Maybe this is where the worlds problems arise. Those doing wrong or crippling others e.g. Land reform…
We or I ask that they can make the right choices so that things can improve.
We or I should rather pray that we are kept safe from these cursing decision. And then God will deal with them on His terms and not ours.
I good duscussion topic I would like to use to get those preaching pray for a corrupt government to stop praying for them and start only praying for redemption of those affect or treated wrongly.
Thank you for the eye opener Skip. When I thought praying for government was what God wants us to do…