The Problem with James
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Hebrews 11:1 NASB
Faith– James’ letter has always been a problem. In fact, it is such a serious problem that early church councils weren’t sure it should even be included in the canon. Why? Because James says crazy things like “What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?” and “faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.” For a Christian theology based on the proposition that salvation comes by faith alone, all of this sounds nearly heretical. So theologians spend a lot of time trying to reconcile James’ statements with sola fide. Not very successfully, I might add.
Matthew Bates suggests that the real problem is not with James but with our idea of faith. In his book, Salvation by Allegiance Alone, he attempts to reconstruct the idea of faith. He notes that most often faith is viewed as the opposite of rational argument and evidence. Faith means stepping out into the void, taking a leap of trust, obeying without questioning. After Kierkegaard, faith became non-rational, that is, acting against reason. Faith means abandoning safeguards and blindly obeying (knowing, of course, that God will catch us as we fall). Bates makes an interesting and important point:
This stepping-out-from-security definition captures an essential component of biblical faith but simultaneously introduces a dangerous half-truth when it is coupled with an irrational leap-in-the-dark notion. The truth portion of this half-truth is best illustrated by examining the most straightforward definition of faith given in the Bible. The author of the Letter to the Hebrews defines pistis, saying, “Now faith (pistis) is the underlying substance (hypostasis) toward which hope is directed, the conviction of things not seen (Heb. 11:1). The point of this definition—as is made clear by examples in the rest of Hebrews 11—is that by mean of pistis, the true people of God are willing to act decisively in the visible world not for reasons that are immediately apparent but because an unseen but even more genuine underlying substance (hypostasis), God’s reality, compels the action. This willingness to act on the deeper, truer, but nonetheless hidden reality is “faith” for the author of Hebrews. And we should eagerly agree that true knowledge of God and saving “faith” are often bound up with such a notion. . . The key point is that true pistisis not an irrational launching into the void but a reasonable, action-oriented response grounded in the conviction that God’s invisible underlying realities are more certain than any apparent realities.[1]
Bates’ comment demonstrates that biblical pistis is an action response to God’s reality. It is neither irrational nor simply cognitive. It is certainly not mental assent. True pistis demands reaction. God does something and we do something in return. In this regard, pistis is virtually the equivalent of ḥesed, the crucial Hebrew expression of relationship. With this in mind, the NASB’s translation of hypostasis as “assurance” is clearly misdirection. Hypostasis is better translated “reality” or “essence.” It’s not about your cognitive confidence. Thinking like this leads to a faith-as-feeling mistake, as though if I don’t have some inner spiritual poise I have a defective faith. No, pistis is about the reality of an unseen world, a reality that demands we do something here and now.
Topical Index: faith, pistis, assurance, hypostasis, Hebrews 11:1
Probably the most fundamental problem Christians have: Trying to be Hebrews (those that crossed over into YHWH’s Kingdom) whilst thinking like Greeks (those that ride the oxymoron unicorn – trying to make CONCRETE sense of the kingdom of Earth by applying ABSTRACT concepts).
Pistis v. Hesed / Aman / Emuwnah
“Faith” v. Trust (Trusting Faithfulness)
” … is an action response to God’s reality. It is neither irrational nor simply cognitive… True pistis demands reaction. God does something and we do something in return.”
Note that “God” does something FIRST. There is no “blind trust” it is in response to a proven reality.
We need to be tuned in to be able to experience “God’s” actions.
Without action (both from YHWY and you) your faith is just a puff of hot air.
If Pieter is right in that we are trying to “make concrete sense by applying abstract concepts”; that we are attempting to establish function by following form; then we, as called co-creators of reality, are attempting to do that by following one step behind that reality instead of stepping in conjunction with it. This is a flesh reaction to reality: we are trying to ‘have faith’ in what has already manifested and so can be determined by our five senses. This is trying to change the past: the dead place! We are exactly backwards!
I suspect that the flesh – which is only walking around on sheer grace – ‘lives’ entirely in the past: in a place where choice does not really ‘work’. We were not created to be reactors to reality! I think real choice only works AS CREATION of reality when it is exercising faith, but faith is clearly a gift (Rom. 12:3), “measured” out to us, like a parent handing a kid spending money. I think faith is the only means by which we can exercise our free will, but we are dependent upon God for that faith. “The faith OF Jesus”, for example, is what we are told to be operating on. So how does the flesh ‘spend’ its measure of faith? I think it tends to waste it all on reactions to the past; to what it can perceive in that flesh.
I suspect that the will of God, acted upon in our lives, is a co-action in which we choose to exercise HIS faith; His perfect alignment with reality, which is the very definition of love: of function within that reality. We are being continuously gifted with faith from heaven (which is the only source of the stuff) but only when it is acted upon through our spirits in concert with the Holy Spirit (which is the only way we have to even be in the present – in life) instead of through our flesh, which is the manifested ‘death’ of the split-second past – of what cannot be changed – can we even exercise our free will.
Sin destroys choice, or, the ability to exercise free will. I think sin consists of reactions to the past by means of misusing faith. We could have cooperated with heaven by lining up our will with the will of God through that faith, and so walk in the life that can only be found by that shared exercise. I think the definition of life is the ability to make choices in the present that change reality by means of establishing that reality – CREATING reality – but life can only be experienced when we spend the gift of heaven – faith – correctly.
Instead of reactions to what can be perceived by our senses (which is all in the past which cannot be changed), we must learn that we are not called to be manipulators of what we can sense in the flesh. We are called to be co-creators, through SHARING the exercise of that gift of heaven. The catch: we have to agree that we spend that gift on His will instead of ours, for His will perfectly lines up with His creation – which is the very essence of the shared nature of what life consists of – while ours can only seek to justify the past, which is the dead place.
Faith returns us to life – to that shared existence which is only possible when we are lined up correctly with the reality that is BECOMING; that is being chosen as we speak. It is up to us and how we choose to spend our faith to determine if we are alive or dead: working by sharing faith with the will of heaven in that present, or stuck chasing the past of the senses; the flesh.
Faith only “works” – has action in the present – when it is being directed by the Holy Spirit, which is the power (action) of the will of heaven. I can read the Commands all day long, but I still do not have the ability to exercise them – to put them into practice – without ‘knowing’ (experiencing) what the will of God is in that moment. Life is the experience of the perfect (completely connected) will of God enacted in me. The agreement with faith (essence of obedience) is my part of that action. The enactment (work, or, power) of that choice is completely His. My part is to get out of the way of His work.
Laurita’s ‘Sin destroys choice, or, the ability to exercise free will.’ Is an interesting view. After reading this over a few times I wonder if sin does not rather broaden our choices and this broadening is what actually separates us from the single mindedness of a desciple. Too many options make faith a empty concept for then any choice we can argue is inspired by God…
Another Christian view that God inspires changes and progress when in fact he has never had any need for these to bring about changes…
Sin is compulsion: sin is addiction in that it requires more sin to justify the last sin. Compulsion is not choice. You think what is in front of you is an endless pallette of choices, but all the AVAILABLE options, for the unrepentant sinner, anyway, are ever more ways to lose the freedom of true choice, until you have none left.
I contend that the only true choice for sinners is repentance. No sinner is free to choose. Compulsion of the flesh drives every desire and fuels every move. This is slavery. If it weren’t, the promise of freedom makes no sense and attracts no one.
Actually, what you are writing about is a description of addiction. No, don’t think: drugs, gambling, alcohol, sex, etc. Think: shopping, coffee, work, texting, running, eating, and all the other things we do to prevent experience the emotions of emptiness, disconnection, sadness, painful memories – a long list. ALL of these become encoded in our brains, some before we were even born, and as a result we really don’t have FREE choice. We have already given that up when we follow the ruts of patterns that keep us numb to feelings we do not want to feel. As I argued about Romans 3:23, if sin is disconnection, then, as you suggest, the only real choice is to RE-CONNECT, but that is also a “choice” that works against our need to avoid the pain.
More, a lot more, later.
Skip, you have my ‘attention’! No assumptions here. The operative word “free” as been a burr in my saddle (as we say in Texas) for years now. Look forward to exploring.
“Faith in antagonism to common sense is fanaticism, Common sense in antagonism to faith is rationalism the light of faith brings out the two into right relation” ~Oswald Chambers~
“True pistis demands reaction.” Does it always?
I’m not absolutely sure I am rightly understanding this statement, but based on what I think it means, I would like to posit that this notion is not always true, in two respects, concluding with an important exception as an example, and I would like to assert the statement that true pistis does not always demand reaction, but faith, “true pistis”, always has a result. There is always a response, voluntarily or even automatically, even very private, personal, and internal.
First of all, to me, the word “demands” seems to imply the necessity of an obligatory, volitional action which follows, and maybe the thought here is, in order to complete or make true, the inner experience of “faith”. I don’t believe that is always true. I don’t believe that “true pistis” always obligates us to choose an action or that all matters of faith require something from us. Many times we simply and merely have an automatic inner response, and that is all God demands of us. Many times “true believing is merely receiving”, and that fulfills the will, or demand, and purpose of God for the impartation of faith concerning some matter of our life.
Secondly, the word “reaction” seems to imply the necessity of, specifically, an externalized behavioral action. I also don’t believe that this is always true. I don’t believe that “true pistis” always necessitates an externalized behavioral re-action. Many times we simply and merely experience a change, often for the better, of course, in our inner mental and emotional state, which may or may not also result in a change in our willful, externalized behavioral actions.
I do agree that many aspects of our life of “faith” do “demand”, or necessitate, an obligatory, volitional action, or “reaction”. However, I believe there are also many aspects of our life of “faith” when this is not the case and that “true pistis” simply and merely results in a very private and personal change in our inner state of being, which is, according to a different version of the scriptures, “the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of realities not seen”.
Here’s a simple, yet very important exception, as an example. If I am thinking I have little worth or am worthless, or I have little hope or am hopeless, or I have excessive, inappropriate guilt or am guilt-ridden, I will feel depressed and, maybe at worst, commit suicide.
However, if I have faith, “true pistis”, that I have significant worth to God and others, that there is great hope for good in my life and the world, and I am forgiven of my wrongdoings and my conscience is clean, I will feel adequately worthwhile, loved and joyful.
Similarly, if I am thinking circumstances in my life are highly likely to result in catastrophic outcomes and I can do nothing to prevent them and I will not be able to satisfactorily adapt to them should they occur, I will feel excessively anxious and worrisomeness.
However, if I have faith, “true pistis”, that things will not turn out catastrophically, or I can do something to prevent them or reduce the unpleasantness or difficulty of their outcomes, and/or I can do something to adequately adapt to them should they turn out so, I will have peace.
If the phrase “demands reaction” does not imply the necessity of an obligatory, volitional action and only means that the true definition of “pisis” requires that there is a “reaction” and the “reaction” does not necessarily imply externalized, behavioral action, then you can forget my proposed argument here.
Otherwise, I think it is very important that we support the notion that faith, “true pists”, can many times simply and merely result in a passive receiving of the substance and evidence of faith as a very personal, inner experience, that may or may not then demand an obligatory, volitional, externalized behavioral action.
Others may benefit from me no longer being depressed and/or excessively anxious and worrisome, but if they don’t, it certainly doesn’t mean that I didn’t experience “true pistis” just because I didn’t fulfill some other obligatory action to “fulfill” or “complete” my faith with some behavioral “obedience” as a demand to provide proof or to be worthy of the benefits of “the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen”, which is faith.
Faith may not always DEMAND a REACTION, but “true pistis” does always HAVE A RESULT. It MAY be an action OR it may simply and merely be a passive, automatic, inner reaction. After all, “…faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Messiah.” So, according to that statement, faith first comes and IS, simply and merely by hearing and not doing. Faith is always, at least, first receiving, and I believe that, sometimes, that’s all it demands, and nothing more than that, though the results can sometimes be ALMOST UNBELIEVABLE, hey?!
When faith demands reaction, let us react! When faith only demands believing and receiving, well then, LET US BELIEVE AND RECEIVE! This, too, is “true pistis”!
“You can’t give what you don’t got!”. Nevertheless, having freely received, let us freely give! This, also, is “true pistis”!
SHALOM!!!
I think you would find Bates’ analysis of pistis in Salvation by Allegiance Alone very helpful. I believe he is correct. Since the Reformation (or maybe before) the “gospel” has been stripped of its ancient OBLIGATORY component, a component that demands an active response to internal belief. There is no sense in which assent to Yeshua as Lord and King does not require active response. The separation of action from cognitive assent is a mistake, and Bates is quite clear about that. Read is book, then tell me what you think. You can overlook or ignore all his Trinitarian and creedal stuff. Just look at the deep analysis of pistis
Of course, I agree that the ‘”gospel’ has been stripped of its ancient OBLIGATORY component”, at least in many matters wherein we are instructed to take action according to “Old Testament” instructions that are still meant for us to obey even since the protestant “Reformation”. As I like to say, they protested rightly. Just not far enough! They should have protested all the back to the ancient paths…..TORAH!
However, if I could be more clear so that you would not misunderstand me in my attempt to make this distinction of some matters of faith compared to others, I would do so by trying to emphasize that sometimes the only “response” to faith is simply and merely to passively receive the word of Messiah and that it would become grafted into our hearts and give us, for instance, the Holy Spirit, and, say, His love shed abroad in our hearts by which we cry out, “Abba, Father”, and, also, shalom, that passes all understanding (being a matter of faith that is more than mere intellectual assent!).
I’m in no way promoting “only believe” and give “lip-service” and don’t obey! However, scripture clearly tells us this, in regard to matters of faith sometimes being an “only believe” and RECEIVE experience:
“So then, the One who gives you the Ruach and works miracles among you—does He do it because of your deeds based on Torah or your hearing based on trust and faithfulness?” (Gal 3:5)
And what faithfulness is required, but to believe and receive? What other work must one do to receive the Holy Spirit? He is received simply and merely by His grace through FAITH ALONE. That IS the work of obedience…FAITH….BELIEVING AND RECEIVING! Is there some other external behavioral action of obedience that is demanded in order to receive the Holy Spirit? For me…..I repented…..I surrendered…..I asked…..I believed…..AND I RECEIVED!!! Bingbottaboom!!! That was it!!! Well, maybe in being IMMERSED (BAPTIZED) in the Holy Spirit, with the evidence of speaking in unknown tongues, there is the demand for reaction. Yes. I had to obey by the behavioral action of speaking. But otherwise, whether being forgiven, comforted, encouraged, empowered, getting wisdom, insight, knowledge, understanding, prophetic revelation, etc…..what external behavioral action is demanded? NONE! In the case of faith and receiving these spiritual blessings, I do nothing but believe and receive! Now, yes, the working of the Holy Spirit through us in many other matters of faith must result on obedience through action. But faith does not always “demand reaction”, unless that reaction is the obedience of believing and receiving many of the spiritual blessing in heavenly places.
You know, though, we can get back to “the ancient OBLIGATORY component, a component that demands an active response to internal belief”, never having a saving faith, never being born again, from above, by the Ruach ha Kodesh, never having received power from on high, or even quenching the Ruach, or never having received the gifts of the Ruach, and even only trying in the flesh to bear the fruit of the Ruach. We can live according to the letter of the law, the form of religion, yet deny the power thereof. But no, we must obey in action by receiving the Ruach within us and in keeping with Torah as taught and modeled by Yeshua, having first exercised faith by believing and receiving, and then, having freely received, we must obey through righteousness and obedient acts of faith.
“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Messiah.” [Eph 1:3]
Just to let you know, Skip, I don’t give you thumbs downs. I try to honor you by just telling you what I think. And thanks for the opportunity!
If the words “action” or “reaction” don’t fit, you might try “choice”. The exercise of faith is the exercise of a choice: the choice to let love have its way. The result of that choice may be feeling differently or having a better outlook on life (which corresponds to your “passive, automatic inner reaction”), or it may set the stage for later action, even, but most of love (connection) we cannot perceive. Our choices reverberate far beyond us. The choices of faith plug us in to EVERYTHING (life) beyond us. Now that is a huge action! Faith hooks us back up to effectiveness, which is where not just us, but all around us, can do better. What we may perceive (or experience, even) of that difference is going to be rather incidental, don’t you think? Its not all just about us, after all.
The way I read the verse, if our choices do not actually connect us (love – verb – which is an action, or movement toward) to the rest of creation, it is not faith. Just because we cannot see that WE ‘made’ the action, does not mean it was not made. God does the actions of love, after all. I think we just move to keep up (or out of the way). That is our small part of His large action. If love (action) didn’t happen, it wasn’t faith.
Great topic. Thanks for the interaction.
The most fundamental (and profound) reaction is to Worship.
Yes, and what is worship?
Connection!
According to Shaul: “I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to PRESENT YOUR BODIES AS A LIVING SACRIFICE, holy and acceptable to God, WHICH IS YOUR SPIRITUAL WORSHIP.” [Rom. 12:1]
I agree that worship involves connection and I would say even requires connection, but don’t you think it is more than connection, and that it must also involve obeying the instruction to, “Love Adonai your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength” [Deut.6:5]?
Don’t you believe we can be spiritually, mentally, emotionally, and even physically connected to God, even if only somewhat, but still come short of worshiping Him if we are not surrendered as a living sacrifice unto loving obedience in spirit and truth? Are we necessarily worshiping Him just by being connected with Him?
Rom.12:1 seems to suggest there’s more to it than that. So does Deut. 6:5. Connection is needed but so is loving, sacrificial obedience. We can be connected but fall short of worshiping Him, obeying Him. Just singing songs in a church service certainly isn’t all there is to it! That I’m sure of!
Isn’t obedience HOW we connect? I’m with you on the sad fact that singing can tune us in OR zone us out.
The OT sacrifices is the perfect shadow / type for Worship.
Today it is demonstrated through Prayer, Singing / Rejoicing, Fellowship, Charity – all actions of connecting with YHWH and “neighbour”.
I’d say Yeshua’s example was the perfect type for worship and, honestly, I’m not quite so sure that is the type of worship in which he participated, was it, OT sacrifices, that is?
Yashua was the sum total (completion) of all the offerings – Burnt Offering; Meal Offering; Peace Offering; Sin Offering; Trespass Offering (The example to follow is also summarised in the prayer of the Apostles / “The Lord’s Prayer”). As well as Red Heifer offering. Look at the SOD meaning behind the offerings.
Just sincerely curious, Pieter, how has all your knowledge of all that made a difference in your worship?
Stopped me doing a lot of foolish religious things. 😉
I see. That is CERTAINLY good! And then what did it help you to start doing, instead?
Study Torah and the Hebrew mindset / worldview
What I’m asking, if I may, is, in what ways has all of your knowledge about those things you have mentioned, like the Red Heifer offering, the other offerings, and the SOD meaning behind the offerings, helped you to START doing things differently, instead of the foolish religious things you were doing, I mean beyond keeping Shabbat, the moedim, and the dietary instructions?
I understand the significance of the instruction, “study to show yourself approved”, the Torah, and the Hebrew mindset/worldview in the process of renewing our minds in the “true pistis”, but what has all your knowledge of these things specifically helped you to start doing differently in terms of worship, “to show yourself approved”? What’s the difference in your spiritual service of WORSHIP now that you have knowledge about these things? What’s the new fruit in terms of attitudes, character, practice, obedience, and other matters of “Worship”, as you understand it to mean, in terms of what you say is, “The most fundamental (and profound) reaction” to “true pistis”. I only ask because the scriptures warns that we are not to be like those who are “always learning yet never able to come to the knowledge of truth”. How does the knowledge of these things make us better worshipers?
Shabbat shalom, Pieter!
If by “completion” you mean abrogate, I would suggest looking at the book of Hebrews and Yeshua’s sacrificial death as metaphor, not literal. His death in no way qualified as a Levitical sacrifice, but it was/is efficacious in the eternal heavenly realm. The earthly Levitical system was/is effective in this earthly realm to allow worshippers to draw near to God, and it is the shadow of the sacrifice of Yeshua in the heavenly realm. The one does not cancel the other.
Much more on this is contained in D. Thomas Lancaster’s “What About the Sacrifices?” published by FFOZ. I recommend this 96 page booklet for study and consideration.
If he didn’t, then he was not Torah obedient to his Father and God. And then he wasn’t our Messiah ……
To use an example of your “argument” of faith being passively received. I’m a builder and what the writer of Hebrews expresses here is the same principle that I run into every day. The “essence” of building is not in the materials used but rather in the “laws” of building, involving loads, sheers, etc. These are the “unseen” things that make a building stand and last, or not. Here’s an argument against passivity in regards to the receiving of something by faith, if what I build continually experiences failure and someone shows me the correct manner in which to build it, (hypostasis) I can passively receive and agree to that correction, however, there’s going to be a time down the road that I run into that issue again. That is when the truth of whether I “received” it or not is made manifest. If you look closely at your statements above, you’ll note that sooner or later your receiving of faith and that area of your life in which that faith is operating, will make a difference in how you react (a demanding reaction IF it’s true faith) to others, even if it’s only in regards to how you think of another because that will eventually dictate how you speak too/treat them. You might consider that if faith could be received passively, the entire structure of creation would be different, because everyone (godly and ungodly) exercises faith. There would be no right or wrong moral ethics, no correct season to plant and harvest, no laws of resistance and I could build my house upside down or on it’s side and it would still be ok. (that might be fun, but not very functional in the shower) In short, I would agree with you about the ability to receive it passively, but it’s only a seed waiting to turn into a forest and sooner or later, the rains are gonna come.
One more example: By faith I have received a “word” from God to be healed, multiple times in my life, and I was healed, multiple times The only reaction demanded of me by those words of faith were to believe them and receive my healings. So, as I’ve said here, if that is the reaction that “true pistis” demands, then I guess I met the demand. However, there was no external behavioral action required, as I have claimed, and it was “true pistis”, otherwise, I wouldn’t have been healed. That is the only distinction that I have been trying to make. No other reaction of me was demanded for “true pisits”. I did nothing, but believe and receive. That may not be entirely passive, I know, but it certainly didn’t require me to do anything else.
Many people believe they must do many things for many works of faith to be accomplished in their lives. Sometimes that is so. Sometimes, however, nothing is required but to believe and receive. Of course, that having been accomplished by God, there is also often further reactions that ensue, but nothing was demanded for what was first received, but to believe. No other reaction. God will always out give us! He likes it that way! He definitely likes it when we have freely received to freely give, but He’s a Father and He often likes to give even unmerited favor and abundantly, even far beyond all that we ask or imagine.
I believe that people can receive a lot from God, and do, and many times don’t have any reaction. Think of the parable of the 10 lepers who were healed. The nine who were healed and never returned to give thanks, what was the reaction demanded of them for them to be healed? However, if they go away only with their healing, they haven’t received as much as they could have, I’ll give you that!
But perhaps you are sidestepping the point here, not intentionally of course. The discussion is about TRUE PISTIS in relation to the expectations of citizens of the Kingdom. This has little to do with the grace God shows to individuals for purposes of His own. What we are looking into is WHAT IS REQUIRED OF ME (as the jailer asked) and what we discover is that OBLIGATION to meet expectations is an essential ingredient in Kingdom community. Yes, sometimes all that is needed for a particular situation is to “believe” that God is willing and able, and to receive His grace. But that doesn’t mean that adoption in the Kingdom carries no obligatory actions. God can be graceful to whomever He wishes at any time He wishes, but if I want to be part of His tribe, I will have to live by His rules.
I’m so glad that I tuned back in because this is exactly where I am at and I have been for quite a while. It’s so difficult to put into words. Struggling with the whole concept of works in order to walk in synchronicity with God,to have the blessing of God on my life, to walk in his pleasure, And not trying to achieve or gain this by good behavior or performance otherwise it seems no longer faith but works. I struggle because even those words don’t seem accurate. So much of life works because we do what’s necessary to get it to work, why would my walk with God and having the blessing of God on my life be any different. He did say, obedience is better than sacrifice. But the teaching of the church is either legalism or free grace and we know there is no such thing as free grace. Let’s say I have trouble with smoking. God puts his finger on it and says smoking must go in order to walk in health. What if I can’t manage to stop smoking even if over the years I have tried everything possible?
Is God standing by allowing my health to deteriorate. Or maybe he’s saying you have things that are keeping you from having a healing ministry! If I do end up fulfilling all the obligations or expectations of God, isn’t that being blessed by doing works?!? Didn’t I earn it by cooperating with him?! If you’re good, you get a blessing, if you’re bad, no blessing.
I hope this is making some sense to somebody. Vulnerability is required in becoming free. I don’t just want to know I’m free I want the experience of being free.
How can I declare freedom to the captive when I haven’t gained it myself?!
Some kind of feedback would be good. Blessings
isn’t that being blessed by doing works?
Good morning Larry, stop and consider any other arena in life where relationship is involved. Even the employment of your time and labor goes far beyond the aspect of a paycheck, it’s in the building and maintaining of a good and right relationship with others that trust, peace, joy, etc. is gained, but they’re benefits, not obligations. I suppose that the unlearning of what we’ve been taught is much harder than the relearning og what God asks of us. As you said, legalism or grace and there’s nothing else. Kinda like saying the only flavor of ice cream avalable is chocolate or vanilla. True freedom is avalable to us as we walk in the ways of God, in part, because the right use of the gifts given to us bring the blessing of increase and therefore more opportunity, but we’re not talking about moneyas much as we talking about carmel mocha ice cream with butterscotch topping.
Thank you so much for taking the time to share with me. Very helpful. I feel like camping here until I really get it . I guess in some ways you could compare it to getting married. You make your vows and you’re married. But with time you’re actually living out being married, hopefully not out of obligation but out of love and commitment to a healthy thriving relationship ! Shalom
Larry, you are definitely on the right track in your quest. I know, I was there about eight years ago when I found this web site. Thank you so much Skip for what you diligently do.
Your analogy to faith and marriage is exactly the same. My wife and I will have been married for 50 years in December and she was pregnant. Everyone said “it won’t last” but we saw things differently and made sure that it would work and we did and here we are, still patently in love every day and enjoying TW and the world God gave us when once upon a time we were ready to give up.
Make no mistake, life and faith is not an event, it is a process and only you can make it happen, no one else. Be patient but be faithful, that is the key. Keep the faith. It is worth everything. You will be rewarded.
Shalom indeed.
Thank you George for those encouraging and instructive words, especially the last paragraph. It reminds me of the statement that has been said, “Life is a journey, not a destination”. Or as that beautiful man Paul said, “I press toward the mark for the prize of high calling of God in Christ Jesus“, not having apprehended but pursuing !
Congratulations on your marriage!
No, I am really not sidestepping the point here, Skip (and others). Multiple times I have reaffirmed the point that “true pistis” often “demands a reaction” or obligates one to take action or to respond with some externalized behavior. However, there is BOTH often an “obligation to meet expectations” by TAKING ACTION, and also often an “obligation to meet expectations” by NOT TAKING ACTION, and BOTH are “true pistis” and OBLIGATORY of citizens of the Kingdom. But, it is not ALWAYS “true pistis” to take action. Sometimes we are called to NON-ACTION, to passively believe and receive, and that, too, is “true pistis” and is necessary for the coming, establishing, and advancing of His Kingdom. Sometimes, for example, Elohim acts alone to accomplish His purposes of His kingdom, and His people are called to non-action, to obey by passively believing and receiving what He alone will do for the sake of His Kingdom. Also, there are “reactions” of passive obedience, such as meekness, mercy, patience, self-control, forbearance, and long-suffering. These are not, technically re-actions. Here “true pistis” doesn’t demand reaction. It “demands” inaction, or an inner action that is not manifested as a externalized behavioral action, but, instead, NOT TAKING ACTION.
One of my concerns about this is that, though it is important to emphasis the obligation to “live by His rules”, sometimes we can tend to OVER-emphasize the obligation, maybe in OVER-reaction to the important fact that “the ‘gospel’ has been stripped of its ancient OBLIGATORY component”, and we can then negate that there are other significant and essential works of Elohim that require a different response in faith. Those responses can be inaction, or they can also be action but not according to some “rule” (though that doesn’t mean contrary to some rule). Sometimes we can be OVER-zealous in our sense of obligation to and love for YHVH, that we can be PREOCCUPIED with RULES and DOING according to the rules and, as a result, lack faith and even be disobedient, if you will, by being overly active in doing the rules but not living by or in step with or by the power of the Ruach. Sometimes, also, “true pistis demands reaction” and that “reaction” is non-action, or, again, possibly also action but not according to nor against His rules.
Maybe we should say that it is “true pistis” demands OBEDIENCE, but it is not necessarily true that “true pistis demands a reaction”, if by reaction, it means an externalized behavior, like to “live by His rules”, as in to DO something.
Take, for example, your recent blog, “Acting Unexpectantly”, the biblical exhortation that was given was, ““As for you, DO NOT PRAY for this people, and DO NOT LIFT UP CRY OR PRAYER for them, and DO NOT INTERCEDE with Me; for I do not hear you.” [Jer 7:16] Here, “true pistis” does not demand a reaction, as in an externalized behavior. It “demands” one to OBEY by inaction, and that, too, can take “true pistis”. Were the citizens of His Kingdom here expected to live by a “rule”? No. In fact, the rule would seem to be to DO something, like PRAY. “True pistis” is not always just “living by His rules”, unless that means to include “obey His voice” or “obey the leading of the Ruach ha Kodesh”, which does not always mean “living by His rules”, because, though it seems He never violates His rules, He does sometimes act and require His people as citizens of His Kingdom to act in ways that aren’t a “rule”.
INDEED…..”James says crazy things like ‘What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?’ and ‘faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.’”
The matter of importance here is NOT just what is “true pistis”, as vital as that is, but also, integrally related, is the importance of what is “true works”, as the evidence of “true pistis”!
First off, I seems inbred in us to rebel against the idea of being obliged. We want the benefits of his Lordship without paying the price, which would be obedience. To surrender to his Lordship. We want the covering of his feathers and wings and yet we still want to run outside of them without any consequences . What’s up with that?! Sometimes it feels like we’re in a “let’s make a deal “ with God. I don’t think he plays those games.
I sense a certain amount of angst in your words. I think that we struggle with the idea of rest because we feel inactive, but when we are resting we are living in obedience to his words to us when he says “rest in the Lord and wait patiently for him “. Our overactivity can actually be a lack of trust in our heavenly father, we’re afraid if we don’t do something, nothing will be done.
Big subject here, can be frustrating but I think it’s very important that we individually settle on what we believe. I just appreciate so much everyone’s input! Perspectives. Staring at how the sun reflects off the diamond!
No, I wouldn’t say I was feeling that. Angst is, “a feeling of deep anxiety or dread”, “a feeling of anxiety, apprehension, or insecurity”, or “strong worry and unhappiness, especially about personal problems”.
I think I was actually feeling quite at rest within myself, as far as I know. It can sometimes be very slightly frustrating or annoying or irritating when not completely agreeing with everything others say and there is a defensive response, despite attempts to communicate points of agreement also, and not being able to reach agreement on other points when I think they are important also. Mostly, however, to me, this has been merely an intellectual exercise that has been non-emotional, a discussion, seeking to reach a greater mutual understanding, hopefully for the good of all.
Yes. I also appreciate so much everyone’s input. It’s been a long thread with quite a few participants, and that’s a good thing, too, I think.
Forgive me for my inaccurate assumption ! Concerned, more than anything. Blessings
what was the reaction demanded of them for them to be healed?
To go show themselves as clean to the priest. 🙂 ….and in their going they were cleansed….pretty interesting stuff, the other nine were healed (cleansed of the disease) but only the one who returned and gave glory to God was told that his faith had delivered him.
Good point! I guess my example doesn’t quite support my points. They were told to go and show themselves to the priests and were cleansed/healed as they believed, obeyed and went on their way, However, we don’t know for sure if they would necessarily have had to actually go show themselves to the priests to remain healed. It’s possible they could have been partially obedient and still been completely cleansed/healed of leprosy. I imagine this often is the case with people, getting the blessing of the reward of faith but not then becoming fully obedient.
So now, we may be talking about DEGREES of “true pistis” and/or, maybe more accurately, degrees of OBEDIENCE or maybe even degrees of gratitude, worship, or esteeming Messiah or YHVH, huh? There is “great faith”, and there is “littleness of faith” and “weak faith”, but aren’t all “true pistis”? Maybe it could be said that “GREAT pistis demands reaction” or “response” or “obedience”, instead of “TRUE pistis demands reaction “.
Also, the one man healed of leprosy was apparently told his faith had sōzō [From a primary word σῶς sōs̄ (contraction for the obsolete σάος saos, “safe”); to save, that is, deliver or protect (literally or figuratively): – heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole]. So, yes, he was told that, though the others were still also physically cleansed/healed. I guess maybe we can conclude that he received something more than did the others who did not go back to “give glory to God”. Maybe his soul was also cleansed/healed, preserved, saved, made well and whole, and the others were only physically cleansed/healed and restored to the privilege of being in community (or maybe they just went back into community without the “blessing” of a priest).
Jerry and Lisa, you just described the experience I have had with healing. I accompanied a precious person to a week of teaching on HOW to obey and watched her agree (faith). She showed healing in several ways (physically) that week. I subsequently watched her take back the garbage, piece by piece, and lose that healing.
To stay healed, we have to continue to walk in it. Bitterness is a killer. We can be delivered of it, and walk in freedom in our nephesh (for healing always affects the entire nephesh, just as sin does), but if we go back to it, like a dog to its vomit, the healing is lost. To someone who stays in bitterness (precursor to many recognized killer diseases), they would have to be continuously ‘healed’ (miraculous override of their choices).
Healing is a two way street just as faith is a continuing action. It is up to us if we KEEP the healing. In light of my experience, I have thought that perhaps the other nine lepers – because there was no observable change of their hearts (that had been conformed to disease) – might have eventually found themselves back in disease again. I have seen it too many times.
There is a sad but famous story in the annals of medicine (I would have to go find the references to it) about a man dying of cancer. His doctor hands him a new drug and tells him it cures cancer. He takes it, and shows complete remission. Then, someone tells him the drug is a bust. His cancer comes back with a vengeance. The desperate doctor lies to him and tells him that is not true. He remits again. Then he reads about the drug failure in the news. He is dead of cancer 2 mths later. You really can’t make this stuff up.
Seems like it should be easier than this but we are fearfully and wonderfully made so I guess that complicates things. Just from looking back over my own experience I would have to attest to gaining a certain degree of physical healing and then losing it because of choices in maintaining physical health. In the same way other than physical healing, we have emotional healing etc. especially in emotional healing it is easy to return to the vomit, sounds harsh but seems to be true.
It seems every time I return to a sinful behavior ( ouch, that hurts !) I can get all tangled up again in the yoke of bondage. Seems to stir up the war between the flesh and the spirit. The scripture that comes to me now is “and if we walk in the light ( big statement there!) as he is in the light we have fellowship one with another and the blood of Jesus Christ God son cleanses us from all sin …..”.
This is all very helpful and I can’t tell you how much I appreciate everyone’s words!
Thank you Skip, for TWOT! As you experience, it costs to be involved in freedom ministry ! The truth is setting us all free in different ways and in differing degrees. Hallelujah!
Be sober, be vigilant …..
Something you might consider further. The reference to “cleansing” is a matter of ritual purification so they could now engage with YHWH and the community that was purified to worship him. The “healing” wasn’t about a disease per say otherwise, why send them to the priest? It would be pretty obvious that they were just “healed” but the priest had to pronounce one clean to be allowed to engage in temple rites. So, they were all enabled, but only one was actually delivered. (saved, but not in the “western christian” sense) As Laurita points out below, being “healed” is one thing, staying so is an entirely different matter.
As Paul pointed out, all the people were taken out of Egypt, then that whole generation died in the desert because of their unbelief. Let it not be so with us!
Couldn’t keep the freedom, huh?
It gets more interesting when you realize that this isn’t “leoprosy” as we know it, but rather a measure for measure judgement imposed on someone, usually in regards to speaking evil of someone, especially in authority. Think Miriam speaking against Moses to the assembly. Now consider that the one who came back gave glory to God in speaking, and as a testimony of Gods goodness. But the Messiah told another one to stop sinning lest a worse thing come on him. It would seem that the understanding of these things are spelled out in the Torah, and until we go there diligently, we’ll continue to be both ignorant of Gods ways and susceptible to deception. But it’s harder to unlearn than to learn. As always sister, YHWH bless you and keep you…..