A Technical Problem? (3)
Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed, and said in his heart, “Will a child be born to a man one hundred years old? And will Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?” Genesis 17:17 NASB
Laughed– Now we have looked at Genesis 17:17; 18:12; 28:16 and 32:26. In each case we have suggested that the initial audience might be one of the reasons that these verses seem odd, inconsistent with the character of our well-developed theological constructs and disturbing to our notions of justice, sovereignty, and omnipresence. Of course, we didn’t try to examine other verses in Genesis that seem to carry similar difficulties (like the Nephilim or the story of the Flood or Noah’s very strange curse on the grandson of Ham). Perhaps we should look sometime and ask if the agenda of the audience and the sitz-in-leben of the time helps us resolve these issues rather than retreat immediately to some theological explanation that was created centuries after the text was delivered to the original audience. But rather than explore these details, I would like to suggest something more ubiquitous.
Relationship is more important than rules.
From Genesis 3 to Ruth, God seems to “bend” the rules in order to maintain the relationships. He doesn’t kill Adam and the woman despite His threat to do so if they disobey. He doesn’t exterminate all human kind in the Flood despite the virtually inevitable family trauma afterward. He plays along with Abraham even when Abraham makes a total mess of the original promise. He tolerates Sarah, suffers through Isaac, puts up with Jacob, and eventually reconciles Joseph to the meaning of “father.” He doesn’t destroy Israel in spite of Israel’s near self-destruction in Judges. And He uses Ruth, the completely forbidden outsider, to heal the trauma of incest and adultery. Over and over, in fact, God seems to ignore His own commandments when it comes to relationship priorities. Just think about Hosea. The Messiah is right. YHVH is not willing for any to perish, and for that He stretches the instructions to the limit—and beyond.
And maybe that’s the real lesson in these strange Genesis accounts. Maybe the people who first heard these stories needed a God who wouldn’t obliterate them on a single transgression. Maybe they needed to know that God was much more like a parent, agonizing over wayward children but not quite willing to let them go. Maybe when we read these stories, and the Bible in general, we need to read with the forbearance of a parent rather than the scrutiny of a newscaster.
What do you think?
Topical Index: relationship, rules, tolerance, Genesis 17:17
Skip,
I definitely needed this:
“Maybe they needed to know that God was much more like a parent, agonizing over wayward children but not quite willing to let them go.”
Both of my children, in their 30’s, have rejected everything (probably better stated, EVERYTHING) we raised them to believe — at least from my perspective. I won’t go into the details. But the point is, they both constantly tell us (my wife and I) that they love us dearly. Hmmm…if you reject how you were raised, and are going the total opposite direction, how can you still say you love us? Your actions tell us you despise what we are fundamentally about.
I want to say this to them…but I never do. I can’t. Because in the midst of this, I have to look back at how Yah feels with us. Is it not the same? Absolutely. So, I anguish (and pray) over my children. All I can do is live my life according to Torah, and believe that eventually, my children will see the example I am setting. In the end Yah is the one who softens men’s hearts.
Excellent point you have shared with us today! Thank you!
“Maybe…. What do you think?”. I think I like this line of consideration. Having a gift of faith I do not doubt God’s good intentions, long suffering patience, nor his consistency of nature and purpose. I do doubt ours, I doubt mine. The mysteries of justice, sovereignty, and omnipresence will not be resolved within our time. God who is outside of our time,while yet is our time complete knows the beginning from the end and everything in between- complete. We know snippets and fragments and broken pieces at best. And those only in dim and fragmented parts. If we want to actually know anything at all we must begin to know only Messiah, and him crucified. We are so very full of our thoughts and our own understanding. We need to be more empty than full of ourselves. (Link removed by Mark)
I have to admit, I used to get tripped up over what was, in effect, praise for Rahab for lying about the two spies, for I thought this to be a violation of the 9th Commandment. But then when I actually read the 10 Commandments anew I took notice to the actual phraseology: Do not bear false witness against your neighbor. Even still, I thought, ‘surely it’s not OK to outright lie to someone!’ I then reasoned that it must be OK to lie if it is a means by which to ‘cover’ another person, but that it was not OK to do so to protect oneself.
Rahab did not have access to the Ten Commandments (even though I am quite sure she knew what a lie was because we all were given a conscience). (Btw, I don’t think those commands were a big surprise at Sinai: I think the people were reminded to REMEMBER what they were not supposed to have forgotten in Egypt, but, I digress.)
I think we are all judged on what we know to be right: there are such things as sins of ignorance, and grace covers those in the name of justice. (That is my personal take, anyway. I will have updates as I go along!) But, I think God judges by the intent (motivation) of the heart. If she was being motivated by love, we are told that that motivation “covers a multitude of sins”. Ignorant sins, of course. I think she was doing the best she could with what she had. And that was good enough. Just my two cents.
I absolutely agree that one is judged only based on what one knows, and that motivation plays a key factor in ‘loving your neighbor as yourself’. My initial difficulty was reconciling the original account with Hebrews 11:31, which I had (eisegetically, I’ll add) assumed included her lie in the “after she had welcomed the spies in peace” clause.
To give another example and add more to your thoughts: In Nazi Germany I do believe that those who hid their Jewish neighbors and outright lied about doing so were in no way breaking this commandment.
Laurita and Craig, both of your comments goes to my experience that people can do the wrong thing for the right reason and the right things for the wrong reason. It is Yehovah alone who knows the motivations of the heart. Yet the spirits press us to move, be and do things…Paul suggests we should “take captive every thought and subject it to Christ”. This is good advice particularly for those who are not spiritually discerning or only process through their own minds. The reality and structure of the Nephesh is a growing understanding I am having. This based on dialogues here and our precious brother Skip’s insights. The cognitive disconnects I find because of good Christian brethren captive by a Greek mind are painful to me. Perhaps my favorite topic is the issue of mind, heart and will and how the work together. The cognitive disconnects between have also been costly professionally as I work with Christians. I am done with having them as employees and try to avoid them in business whenever possible. Their deification of grace over Torah is one very good reason. I am most grateful that Messiah has a Hebrew mind…
Welcome back. You were missed. Just my 2 sense.
One of the striking things about the Rahab story is just how much she DOES KNOW. She apparently knows God’s personal name. She knows the implications fo hesed (a strictly Hebrew word). She knows God’s intentions for the Promised Land. She speaks Hebrew. One might seriously ask how any of this is possible–until you realize that the story was written hundreds of years later for an entirely different audience. It isn’t a TV drama unfolding before our eyes. Implicit in all this is that Rahab already understands the basis of relationship with God, even as a condemned Gentile in a pagan city.
It is natural to think that Rahab was a Gentile simply because she was living in a pagan city, but where does it say that she was? As Skip astutely points out, how is it that she knows so much about the Hebrews, and not only that, but why would she risk her life to save these strange foreigners so that they could return to destroy her whole city and business? Why would she put any faith in, and ask them to swear by YHWH unless their God was her God?
If I can correctly understand what Skip is inferring, it sounds to me like, because this story was made up, or embellished, hundreds of years later. (Correct me if I’m wrong.)
But what about this? The Hebrews under Joseph were enjoying freedom and good times in Egypt for at least a hundred years, so it is quite possible that some of these Hebrews, over this period of time decided, and for whatever reason, to move away. Maybe Rahab’s parents or grandparents were adventurous, or, saw the trouble coming in Egypt, (like in 1930’s Germany), and got out of town before it was too late, and settled in Jericho.
I would rather try to keep the historical integrity of the Bible’s stories intact.
I understand your point, but “historical integrity” is a modern invention and not really part of the ancient world. Maybe we need to understand the “story” in the context of the audience, which had to be much later.
If we choose to believe the “story” is actually a history penned generations later but part of an oral history passed along until the time of the writing we might also conclude that a prostitute would need to know her clientele well, likely had long term affairs with many different men and understood them, their culture and their language well. It would be required for the success of her business venture. We might also conclude that the God who chose to be shure that each name of individuals within the generations of men was recorded because he cares intimately about each and every one of his creatures might choose to accurately record the life, heart and value of one of his less understood servants Rehab.
The text does not say what language they were speaking. Why could she have not known “God’s personal name?” Did not Moses reveal the name to Pharaoh? God did great wonders in the land of Egypt, and would not this story and others have had time to reach her ears and the ears of the city? In light of her trade, I would imagine she would have heard much information and stories about the ancient world in which she lived. I would suspect the deliverance from Egypt was a wonder in the mouths of the people of her day! Her story and conversation have an authentic ring to it.
On another note, but tied to Rahab’s story, is the story of the Exodus. There is much contending in the scholarly world concerning the authenticity of the Exodus. The story of the Exodus has shaped the narrative of the Tanakh and the people who have walked this journey. Modern scholars want to cast this burden aside but the weight of the story has given muscle today to the character of His people whom He delivered from Egypt so long ago.
Concluding that the Story of Rahab was “made up” because (as skip suggests) it “was written hundred of years later” does not necessarily follow. Did Moses “make up” the Torah? I know there is a lot of conjecture that he did not write it for many seemingly reasonable reasons. Yet there are equally seemingly reasonable facts and archeological evidence and entirely different conjectures that suggest he actually did write the Torah. Was he then codifying and transcribing the oral Torah and verbal traditions not yet transposed because God had not yet (as a proverb suggests) “taught them word for word”. Are you one that would decide Moses was not a historical character but a literary invention to make some point?I like to say that the bible is the story of how God has walked with my people Israel. What we individually decide to be true and thus stake our faith on it is critical to our life and growth. Are we to choose to believe God’s word or our judgments about how he chose to write or deliver it too us?. Mysteries abound as we walk with God into the realms of wonder. But we will not inhabit the deeper places without a deeper faith in Him and His-ability to keep and deliver “His word”.
But I didn’t say it was “made up.” All I implied was that, as story, it serves a purpose for the READING audience which is not the same as the cast of characters at the time it took place. Actually there are quite a few technical issues with the story, but that doesn’t mean it is fabricated. Our problem is our own definition of history as chronological event recording, something no ancient civilization ever did.
Daniel stated “If I can correctly understand what Skip is inferring, it sounds to me like, because this story was made up, or embellished, hundreds of years later. (Correct me if I’m wrong.)
Thanks for clarifying Skip.
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The other non-Hebrew speakers in Joshua are also talking in Hebrew. What I find intriguing is the Gibeonites deceived Joshua (chapter 9) and come into covenant with the people of Israel.
We can contrast the two covenants:
Rahab’s is made with an understanding of hesed, and she used deception to save the lives of the spies.
The Gibeonites’ covenant is made through deception with no understanding of hesed, and they do it to save their own hides.
This could be the point of sharing these two stories. Rahab is living a life of abuse and struggle, and this would seem to me to make her open to hear and respond to the delivering power of YHVH and His wonder-filled covenant of hesed! The Gibeonites, on the other hand, were only worried about saving their own skin.
Rahab’s lie upholds a higher value–LIFE. The commands are not absolute and static, as Yeshua himself demonstrates in the parable of the Samaritan. She lies – and in do so, does the right thing.
If we see God seeming to “bend” His own commands (character), then perhaps we can come to more than a couple conclusions. The first conclusion, of course, is that He is inconsistent with Himself (character). Hmm. Probably not. The second conclusion is that perhaps we don’t fully understand the commands. That seems more likely. But we could also conclude that, even though we cannot understand a whole lot, – and that we filter everything through our faulty paradigms, too – the commands were given to us with a reasonable expectation that we can understand them well enough with the aid of the Holy Spirit which we are supposed to be cooperating with anyway. To jump immediately to the conclusion that God is inconsistent with Himself, I think, is probably a lot less likely than the probability that our paradigms (through which we try to understand love) are terribly inconsistent with themselves, given that we are stuffed full of lies upon which our paradigms are based. But, still those commands are quite clear: it is hard to NOT KNOW what a lie is, or what murder is, etc. So I am left with the idea that for God to be consistent with His own commands, there has to be a hidden card: a WAY for the commands to be TRUE but at the same time a way for us to live in spite of sin. We needed a Placeholder: Somebody to stand in the gap sin makes between us and LIFE and continue to provide us with the life we continue to forfeit at every turn. Hmm.
Certainly, YHWH is not capricious. But I think the ‘rules’ may not be as constraining as we might believe. Considering the 9th Commandment yet again, for instance, taken at its face, it’s strictly speaking of bearing false witness/testimony against your neighbor. Of course, this would include in a court of law, but I’d say it would also include making unfounded accusations—allegations based on reasonable assumptions over against straight up accusations in cases lacking hard evidence, I’d say.
However, the Commandment does not directly address lying in a general sense, though I do believe a strong opposition to lie is found within our conscience (unless it is seared!), and I think this sense is implicit. There’s Ananias and Sapphira as an example. As you mentioned above, it comes down to intent. God knows the heart.
His word is the light, His spirit the way to walk in it….He came full of grace and truth that we might discern the difference…
I would have to ask, “what is God‘s ultimate goal, plan and desire for his people?”. First Timothy 2:4. Does God always get what he wants? Doesn’t appear so.
I’ve been doing a personal study lately on repentance. Turning from and turning to . It’s the kindness of God that I believe is continually being poured out that leads us to repentance. I think this is true in regards to initial salvation and also ongoing salvation, usually called sanctification. Today, is the day of salvation. Today, today and today. Always the present.
I like your comparison Skip in regards to our likeness to God as parents. “ if you being evil know how to give good gifts to your children, HOW MUCH MORE, your heavenly Father!”. God is not bound by a set of rules, maybe not even his own rules?? We tend to be so small minded… remember when the disciples got scolded for eating wheat on the Sabbath while they were walking along with The Master!
It’s wonderful having a lot of questions and not knowing everything, because it leaves the field wide open to learn and be changed. I am grateful and challenged !
“this oh man is what God requires of you, that you do justly, love mercy and walk humbly with your God.” From my perspective “Salvation” is a covenant walk into righteousness-not an event or sanctification as you say. The initial act of turning to God or “repentance” from your old way of being is actually for me a change of kingdoms. That is the event the rest is process…
Without further comment, I’m sure all of us have wondered about these verses,
1Ki_22:22 And Jehovah said to him, With what? And he said, I will go forth and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And He said, You shall entice him and succeed also. Go forth and do so.
1Ki_22:23 And now, behold, Jehovah has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these your prophets, and Jehovah has spoken evil concerning you.
2Ch_18:21 And he said, I will go out and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And Jehovah said, You shall tempt him, and you are able. Go out and do so.
2Ch_18:22 And now behold, Jehovah has put a lying spirit in the mouth of these your prophets, and Jehovah has spoken evil against you.
Pretty sure I wrote something about these too.
Been enjoying Jorden Peterson the NYT’s “most influential public intellectual in western civilization of the moment” who say’s “If the world is constituted by truth, then it is faith to speak truth, trusting that no matter what the outcome it will be good and the best possible outcome.” In his book “12 rules for life’ that has sold over 3 million copies to date he has a chapter titled “speak the truth, or at least don’t lie”. gotta love Jordan he might just change a few minds…
Peterson is fantastic! He is very quick in his responses to his detractors, never failing to point out the fallacies in their ‘rebuttals.’ His quick-footed on-the-fly responses to Cathy Newman’s prepared-in-advance loaded questions was poetry in motion!
Context, Context,Context, Context….
Skip, I believe that the image of YHVH as a parent, (Father/Mother), is so spot on. From Abraham, to his Son on the cross He has allowed for our failures and still loved us. If we as imperfect fathers will sacrifice up to our lives for our children, what would a perfect father do for his Son or for us as his children? Thank you for the reminder of His all consuming grace from Adam to my children.
Amen!