Paul’s Shema (2)
So faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. Romans 10:17 NASB
Christ – Is it the Son’s words or the Father’s words? If you look at this verse in the King James Version, it reads, “by the word of God.” That’s because the KJV is based on the Greek Textus Receptus, the Greek text that was available in 1611. A lot of archeology has occurred since King James, resulting in the modification of this text and many others, based on older fragments. The change from “word of God (theou)” to “word of Christ (christou)” is based on fragments dating from about 200 AD to 1060 AD. But other fragments, dating from the Fifth and Sixth Centuries, use the word theou. This raises an interesting question. If christou is in the oldest fragment, why would subsequent copies of the text change the word to the less shocking Greek word theou? After all, to claim that faith is by hearing the spoken word of God is not nearly as controversial as claiming that faith is by hearing the spoken word of the Messiah. Furthermore, if the Christian Church really separated from its Jewish background over the issue of the Messiah, then why would fragments from the Fourth and Fifth Centuries alter the text to read “word of God” rather than “word of Christ”? How would this help distinguish Christians from Jewish believers?
This puzzle may never be solved, but it should cause us to pause. We should take a step back when we find theological proclamations that claim faith in “Jesus” is Paul’s message based on this verse. We might also reconsider the claim that the words of Jesus replace the words of YHWH. We should ask the question about when Jews and Christians really did part company. This verse, a verse that has been so much a part of our evangelical tradition, has a lot more buried in it than we thought. We should probably ask if rabbi Sha’ul would have seen any difference between the rhema of christos and the rhema of theos.
Of course, we’ve only scratched the surface of textual criticism (the science of determining what the original text actually said). And we are amateurs at this, so there are probably a lot of very good reasons for accepting christou rather than theou. But it’s still a bit odd, isn’t it, that somehow theou was substituted centuries after Christianity was supposed to have separated from Judaism?
All of this raises another personal question. If Paul considers faith a product of shama and shama is essentially connected to the spoken word of the Messiah (or of God), then no matter where the word comes from, it must still be obeyed in order to produce faith. So, how’s that working out for you? Are you deciding to obey in order to experience faith or are you waiting for faith in order to obey? When you are confronted by a choice, a demand from Scripture, do you ask God or Jesus to give you the faith to believe, or do you do what it says, knowing that your actions will bring faith in tow?
Topical Index: faith, word, rhema, God, theos, Christ, christos, Romans 10:17
Dear Skip
I am trying to be a desciple of Y’shua – no easy task. When I pray I pray to the Father and personally I believe that the Father is the One doing the work in us through Moshiach Y’shua – in absolute unity they work. They are truly ONE only. We cannot separate them in anything we try to understand. Master Y’shua taught that no one comes to Him unless the Father draws him – an ongoing process working in harmony all the time.
Thanks again for your valued word.
Shalom Shalom!
“We should ask the question about when Jews and Christians really did part company.”
I think the answer lies somewhere along the line of when they stopped hearing the everlasting and always continuing Word. Some of the Jews refused listening to Yeshua, the living breathing Word of G-d manifested in the flesh, some (Christians/Jews etc.) today don’t listen to what G-d said thousands of years ago because it does not apply to “the times we are in” (Still waiting for the Messiah, Law abolished…). Seems to be two sides of the same coin.
Please forgive me. Jesus is G-d. Father. Son. Holy Breath/Wind/Spirit. These three agree in One. One LORD, one faith, (not two),- one Baptism. One way into Heaven and one way into life.
What was the confession of Peter? (helpful household hint..- was Christ pleased with his confession?) Thou art the Christ (yes, the Messiah) the Son of the Living G-d. Yeshua is YHWH. G-d incarnated into flesh.
Folks, the Word (the Logos) became flesh. G-d (yes, the Creator) became a man and walked among us and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father. Jesus (who is the Christ) is G-d incarnate. Allow me to say quickly- notice the “is”. This is not a “Was”- this is and “is”- for Christ “our” Messiah- (notice the “our”)- He is Savior of “all” mankind. Jew and Gentile. Hebrew, Jew and Swahili. Rich, poor, black or white, male, female, Episcopalian or Vegetarian- He is LORD of all. LORD of time, LORD of eternity. LORD of death and LORD of life. He is (the) Christ, (notice “the”)- not “A”. The.
Mr. Jew. Mr. Pagan. Regardless of who you are or where you are- when Jesus speaks- G-d speaks. (Read the Book- “it’s in there.”
Go back Mr. Jew and read the history of your people. Read all about the mercy seat and the holy of holies and the day of atonement- Yes, Yom Kippor. Read all about the story of a lamb who was sacrificed only once per year by the high priest entering into the veil of the temple. This is your story.This is the story of salvation for the Jews. He came unto His own. – When was Christ sacrificed? What time is it people? – This drives me nutz. – Over three hundred prophecies concerning “this man” and we (yes, I said “we”) are still debating over who Christ was. Wrong answer. He is not a “was” – He is an “is”- for dear friends (both Jew and Gentile- but mainly sinners)- Christ “IS” risen from the dead. Hello?
Is Jesus who He said He was? Did He receive the worship of men? If He is not G-d -then He is a blasphemer and needs to be put to death- yes, even on a cross. But you know how it is- lol!- You can’t keep a good man down- now can you?
Buddha- dead and gone. Mohammed- (false prophet if there ever was one)- dead and gone. Moses- dead. Elisha- dead. Jonah- dead. ONLY ONE is alive. Who is this who conquered death? Who is this who conquered the grave? Who is this who ever lives to make intercession for us? What is His name? Tell me Mr. Hebrew speaking Pharisee- Tell me His name? Who is this King of Glory? – The LORD strong and mighty. El Elyon- this is who “we” (yes, I said “we) crucified- this is who we whipped, scorged, spat in His beautiful face, and plucked His beard and whipped His back and His legs until He was not even reconizable as a man. The Son of G-d and the Son of Man- “we” crucified the LORD of glory.
Father, forgive us for we know not what we do. The blind are leading the blind. Open the eyes of our hearts LORD. – Amein.
Textual criticism……. seems to me that some textual critics can be very arrogant and self-serving.
When will they realize that they need all the disciplines to blend and work together to bring a more complete and sure-footed understanding to the particular passage in question.
Humility is such a needed ingredient in the pursuit of the fullness of God’s word!
We quickly run into problems trying to fit specifics into the 0.0% works / 100% grace gospel framework. I can call the act of reaching out to receive a hundred dollar bill “works”. Most classic bible stories give great real life examples of how men’s “works” interact with God’s “grace”. However, in most of these bible stories we would suggest “faith in action” as the descriptor instead of works.
For example:
*What did David have to DO to defeat Goliath? He had to pick up stones (works?), walk clear over to where to where Goliath was (more works?).
*What did the Israelites have to DO to defeat Jericho?
Oops, the above wasn’t meant as a specific reply, more a general comment. But, I agree with you Brian for sure. 🙂
Gabe, i call those action verbs… (never thought of them as works)… ♥
*What did David have to DO to defeat Goliath? He had to pick up stones action/(works?), walk clear over to where to where Goliath was/action(more works?).
*What did the Israelites have to DO to defeat Jericho? action too…
jan
Yes. I suppose that’s the point. David took action, and most would never call it “works”. But if I want to follow some of God’s directions as set out in the Torah, not ONLY in Spirit, but also in action – then I am seen as trying to “work” for God’s favor.
I would think it’s something that many members in here might experience. Some of us have chosen to honor and celebrate the Sabbath – but in general it is not seen as something we physically do out of faith and obedience. It’s seen as “works” (by the larger Christian community).
Gabe, actions as i see it/know it is born out of love or passion for someone or some thing…
we may have been taught that you can “work” for God’s favor but you really can’t – i do think/feel HE appreciates all our actions/works for HIM/the Kingdom & we will be rewarded in heaven (when wherever that may be)…
keeping the Sabbath has never appeared to me as “works” but again out of love which tends to make us obedient – perhaps for some “Sabbath” is a condition of the heart – as resting from our “action/works/labor” instead of a place to do such…
i also believe that HE will direct our actions/works & that we are to wait upon that direction – i think we can be futile in our actions/works when we attempt or do them in our strength – just working/actioning to be doing so because we think it is expected of us – HE will direct our paths & our times in His timing & placement…
jan
I agree with Brian, but I think, and pardon me if I am wrong but this is a futile discussion, because as Dr. Moen said I don’t think Paul makes any difference between christou or theou in both religions isn’t He the same.
Benny,
I was expressing some frustration here in regard to certain texual critics and not so much to what Skip was addressing here in relationship to theou or christou of this particular passage. Blessings!
Skip,
Here is the thing: For me it makes absolute sense that I need to Shama (obey what I heard) in order to grow in faith. For me it works. But I found that for many people with different personalities and / or spiritual gifts, this is a very difficult concept.
They usually say that works will not save you in which case I fall back on “Show me the works without faith and I’ll show you the faith without works”, and then explain that I understand that your works explain to the rest of the world and all the spiritual beings what you believe.
If you don’t give to the poor, your god obviously doesn’t expect you to give to the poor. Your god is not concerned about the poor, etc.
But that shama leads to faith, I do not seem to explain well in that way. It may be also that traditionally in our culture, it is not “nice” to tell people what they should believe.
(Michael, I realize I must frustrate you a lot – I am an untrained housewife and often reason likewise. Please be patient with the likes of me.)
Ilze, i am confused – you direct your last sentence to Michael, but i don’t see any comment from him/Michael on this article today – perhaps you were anticipating his comment/response or perhaps he is also someone who he is not?!?!?! just thought it was funny… ♥
jan
We’ve been over this ground a lot in the past. Being obedient does NOT save you. It just makes life delightful and useful to God. Grace saves us – all of us whether Jew or Gentile, but without obedience we don’t fulfill His purposes for us, we aren’t distinctive in the way we live, we can’t become magnets for Him and we certainly will not fulfill our own destinies. Once we stop confusing grace and works, life gets much more interesting.
Skip, Do you use the word “obedient in the first part of your answer to Jan to mean the same thing as “works” that you used in the later part? That is the only sense I can make of it. My understanding of your combined 2 day lesson is that when I shema ( hear and obey) it involves some action (work) on my part to be faith, but that I don’t necessarily have a specific word from Yah as to how to obey does not preclude me from taking some step (of faith; emunah) toward Him in simple trust because He is trustworthy. Or does your response just deal with the issues of by what means salvation is conveyed? works v grace.
Now I am really confused. Obedience is both thought and action (they are basically inseparable in Hebrew) as well as attitude, of course. But salvation isn’t part of this equation. God’s grace does NOT depend on our obedience. Our obedience depends on God’s grace. Grace comes first and as a result we choose to obey to honor that grace. Does that help? Let’s talk.
Indeed, we only have to look at the life of Abraham to see the pattern for grace, salvation, obedience and blessing.
God called Avram out of Ur and made promises regarding Avram’s descendants and the land – that is grace. He also added the letter “hey” to his name to make it “Avraham” – “father of nations”.
Avraham heard, believed – acted on the promises of God – and obeyed – did what God asked. That’s faith.
Avraham also messed up – he went down to Egypt and lied to Pharoah about Sarah to (in his mind) save his own life. That was taking things into his own hand. God, however, acted on his behalf and brought him back out of Egypt – that’s grace at work again. (Once wasn’t enough, though – the same thing was repeated when he went down to Gerar and didn’t tell Avimelech that Sarah was his wife.)
God kept His promise and gave Abraham a son, then asked Avraham to sacrifice him. Abraham continued believing the promises of God and obeyed – faith in action. God saw Abraham’s obedience and blessed him.
So here’s an interesting question. What would have happened if Avram had heard but not acted on God’s call to “Get yourself out of your father’s house and go to the land that I will show you?”
For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: (Ephesians 2.8) ok.. and then?
Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2.9) Well- there it is! “Jesus paid it all!”
For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago. (Ephesians 2.10)
A quick review? by grace-through faith- unto good works. 1,2 and 3. We are “saved” to serve. We (all) have work to do.
“for the equipping of the saints, to do the work of ministry, and to build up the body of the Messiah” (Ephesians 4.12) Your gifts differ from mine and mine differ from yours- this is another reason why we need each other. Together we make up the body of the Messiah. He lives in each of us and in all of us. The Christ in me sees the Christ in you and together we give glory to G-d! I rejoice to see the sanctify work G-d is doing in your life and day-by-day give unto Him who is the Source of good things the glory due unto His name.
Let us never forget the exhortation from the word of G-d to love one another. We are meant to live in community. G-d has a large diverse family and Father Abraham has many sons.
Thank you Michael for the link to ccel.org- it will prove to be a great resource. Another of my online favorites is “biblos.com”- especially for us Hebrew/Greek illiterates.
Amein! Grace and works go hand in hand, though grace comes first, and actions/deeds follow naturally. One cannot ‘rest’ in grace, and carry on living in sin.
“do you ask God or Jesus to give you the faith to believe” – does it make a difference – if they are One or a Trinity – don’t they both hear our requests/questions/askings – i was once asked at a Bible Study what did i call HIM – i usually call Him “Lord” or “Lord Jesus” & i’m sure he hears me & knows He answers me & that is what “builds” my faith in HIM – (i also call Him, HIM… )… ♥
His/jan
The point of the exercise today is not what we call God, Yeshua or the Spirit. It is the fact that 400 years after the supposed separation between Jew and Christian there are still hints that the “separation” didn’t affect the believing community as much as our historians claim. There is considerable scholarly opinion that Christianity as a religion was actually perpetrated by a small number of intellectuals within the community between 250 and 350 AD while most believers continued to practice as Messianic followers within the Jewish tradition. All of this changed when Rome became the political endorser of the Christian faith.
Jan, (Skip) all etc., “Skip’s sentence below”: the point of the excercise today is not what we call God—– It is—-” LOL– Well, honestly a very large number of the comments do not have anything to do with the point of” the excercise of today”! “COULD I HEAR A LOUD AMEN”—-BUT never-the-less they seem to be beneficial to someone–even if it just that person getting a turn to “speak on cyber, and hope someone reads it”–
— But, Jan on a more serious note, may I say to your above question, that I too struggled with how to address “HIM-Lord–God–YHWH–for many years perhaps 55-60 of them. As a Christian teacher of children, it seemed God, Jesus would simplify things for them.—but for adults, myself included, I needed more. Through the years, I came to peace with the Model Prayer’s address: Our Father, added: “Our Heavenly Father”, and if writing now almost always write, “Our Heavenly Father, Jesus the Son, Creator of the Universe, through the power of the Holy Spirit–” In public I do not pray the entire Model Prayer if I am leading oral prayer, but simply think the way it is addressed is valuable.
Often if it is a group where some people will have litle knowledge on the entire Bible, I may speak or write of the “spirit” in the O.T. and the N.T. — as we have had Skip write on this, and recently hearing many Godly people teaching the true importance of the Holy Spirit in both covenanats of the Bible.
In ordianary life, I have found we cannot under estimate the value of speaking the names of the GOD of Christianity. Yes, I am well aware of many wrong teachings in the “Christian Community”! That is why I have continued to seek, search, study every resource available to me
The N.T. people-disciples that believed in Jesus as the Christ– were first called that in Antioch–Acts: 11-v.26. It was a term of hatred filled of mockery, scorn, and none of those first C. Christians would recognize the current term “Christian” in most of todays “Christian Churches in THE BUILDINGS” or even in Home Churches.-
— BUT THAT DOES NOT CHANGE THE VALUE OF ” OUR FATHER-CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE-JESUS THE SON–THROUGH THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT-COUNSELOR–
“In fact, many, because of the problems of the world including our nation, are truly seeking for HIM—- and the Scriptures in both the Old and New Covenants plainly teach that “if we seek, and keep on seeking, and keep on seeking– (never give up) with all our hearts, soul, minds, YOU WILL FIND HIM! –HIS Word is faithful, —BUT REMINDS US: “DO NOT FAINT, BRING OTHERS, AND ONE GREAT WAY IS BY SPEAKING HIS MANY NAMES OTHER THAN THESE MENTIONED here.
AND I TRULY BELIEVE FOR OUR OWN PERSONAL PRAYER REQUEST THAT WHEN WE DESPERATELY SINCERELY, YELL, EVEN BE SILENT, THE LORD GOD WILL HEAR OUR REQUEST. THERE IS A PRAYER OF COMMUNION. L.B. MUST GO, AM NEEDED–
Skip,
What literature do you use to study the early church fathers? Where is a good starting point? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Ricky
Do you mean the early Christian Church fathers or the rabbis between 200BC and 400AD? If you mean the early Church fathers, I have only studied extensively Augustine. Others I read as required from whatever sources I can find.
i mean church fathers like augustine etc….
Nearly all the important works on online. There is also the 27 volume (or more) edition of the AnteNicene Fathers. But remember that only a few of these men wrote extensively.
Thanks for the help:)
Rick, I don’t often recommend web sites (except Skip’s, of course), but here is one site you will find useful in your studies. They have one of the largest collections of Christian books for the type of in depth study you are wanting on the web. Go to: http://www.ccel.org they have so much good stuff that reading from it becomes almost addictive. If we don’t hear from you for months I will know why!! Shalom.
A good place to find extensive works by the church fathers is the ethereal christian library which is here:
http://www.ccel.org/
As well as Project Gutenberg which is here:
http://www.gutenberg.org/
Diane
Diane, To paraphrase and adopt a familiar quote: “great minds read alike”! Shalom.
I love the title, Paul’s Shema.
A wonderful scriptural reference concerning faith vs. obedience (works) is Genesis 26:1-6. While works will not secure one’s salvation, faith without works will not either. See James 2:14-26.
What most professing Christians continue to miss is that even under the Old Covenant, one did not secure their salvation through works or even by circumcision, but by faith (Hab 2:4 ) and by the circumcision of their heart (Deut 10:16; 30:6). Where once the people obeyed God out of fear and a sense of obligation, what is not ‘required’ is that one obeys out of love (John 14:15).
How important is obedience? Read carefully Rev. 12:17; 14:12 & 22:14 and then compare with Gen 26:1-6.
Shalom Aleichem
Shalom Art, great to see you here!
My 2 cents worth-God is a generic term, not a proper name, as there are many such Go ds around that folks refer to e.g. OMG! as an exclamation.
Our great Elohim (preferable to ‘God’)’s Name is YHWH, in whatever pronunciation we choose,
as we do know “halleluYAH” means to praise YAH, and many names in the Hebrew Bible has YAH, or EL in them-e.g. EliYAHu/Elijah, YeshaYAHu/Isiah, DaniEL, SamuEL, and so on.
The word ‘allah’ means God too in Arabic, and is not a name for the Islam god.
I was once at a birthday party, and they sang-May the good lord bless you, I was joyful and happily sang along, then it struck me, that it was a Hindu family though they hid their idols behind a door. These folks address their idols as ‘lord’. I was quite shaken.
May YHWH bless and keep us, may YHWH’s countenance be turned towards us, to set us in HIS Peace/SHALOM! Amein!