Left Ahead
Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priest of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years. Revelation 20:6 ESV
Reign – In Mesillat Yesharim, Moses Luzzatto suggests that we enter the olam ha’ba in the same condition that we leave this world.[1] We are not somehow instantly transformed into a perfect creature of light, removed from all past memories, exempt from all past decisions. The thought is frightening. Imagine how you would react if you were to die at this moment and discover that who you are in the olam ha’ba is exactly who you were when you died. Not guilty, of course. God sees to that. But did you somehow think that God also repaired your character flaws, your unrighteous habits, your self-centered concerns? Does God do a spiritual lobotomy upon arrival? Does He do for you what you were expected to do for yourself but never got around to doing? Is He the fix-it God?
Luzzatto’s point is that this is the field of character development, not heaven. Heaven is a place prepared for those who are ready to enter into God’s presence and reign with Him. For most of us, that means we have a lot of work to do. If you entered heaven in your present state, would you be comfortable there? Would you find yourself a bit out of place among those who have totally abandoned themselves to God? Would you rest assured that you belong in the company of Moses, Abraham, David and Isaiah? If you are intended to reign with God and the Messiah, doesn’t that mean you must exercise your authority as completely submitted to His will and as a perfect representation of His character? And how will you and I accomplish that if we show up unfit for duty?
I remember studying in the Radcliffe Camera at Oxford. This ancient library hasn’t changed much in 600 years. I sat in the same chair that Isaac Newton occupied as a student. I was overwhelmed with my unworthiness to even be there. The weight of those giants of the past settled upon me and I could hardly read the next page of the book in front of me. What was I doing in this place? I didn’t belong. I wasn’t ready to take my place in this company. How arrogant of me to think that I belong in the company of the heroes of the faith. Have I given all I have for God’s purposes? Have I been willing to sacrifice everything I lived for? Have I shown myself ready to be humiliated, disgraced or rejected for His Name sake? Have I exercised faithfulness in all that He asked of me? Have I pleaded, fasted and pursued Him? Am I truly a man after His heart? Or am I more like Jacob or Peter – in need of wrestling and refinement? Could I enter the throne room of the most high God in my present condition and think of myself as welcomed? This is not about God’s willingness to accept me. This is about my willingness to accept myself in a condition less than what I want to be in when I arrive. This is about another day to prepare myself.
To be alive today is to realize that God has given me more time to get ready for what I will leave ahead. That’s why today is the most important day of my life. In typical style, Luzzatto leaves us with an enormous challenge. He may never have read John’s Apocalypse, but he understood the task. If you aren’t starving for righteousness on this earth, you may find yourself starving in heaven.
Topical Index: Moses Luzzatto, heaven, Revelation 20:6, reign, Mesillat Yesharim
[1] cf. Moses Luzzatto, Mesillat Yesharim, p. 22.
I have been awakened. Yes this is the most important day of my life!
Eph 5:14 Therefore He says: “Awake, you who sleep, Arise from the dead, And Christ will give you light.” 15 See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise,16 redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
Thank you Skip.
Excellent verse to go with TW. Thanks.
In Mesillat Yesharim, Moses Luzzatto suggests that we enter the olam ha’ba in the same condition that we leave this world.[1]
Hi Skip,
The above seems sort of like a cross between the Catholic purgatory and common sense
I don’t think we are going to change much between the time we die and the time we arrive
Wherever we end up
We will probably need to purge ourselves of our “rough edges” before we enter the Kingdom
But without our bodies we might not even have any evil instincts left
I’m imagining we will enter some sort of meditative state in which we see the light
And hear the angels sing
And I hope my dog Max is there waiting for me
“Without our bodies”????
You must be joking. I am not a Platonist. There is no human being without embodiment.
“There is no human being without embodiment.”
Hi Skip,
It is not clear to me that I will be human being when I die
Energy can NEVER be destroyed (or created) by humans
At the sub atomic level our physical body is energy
Our body is composed of atoms. what happens to those?
Dunno 🙂
Michael, atoms are not the end of the line, there are all sorts of quarks from which they are composed, but the bottom line it that it’s all energy. I suspect that ‘conservation of energy’ still applies in some way in higher-dimensional realms!
“the bottom line it that it’s all energy’
Hi John,
I understand, and speaking of energy and higher dimensional realms (or lower)
My daughter got me to take her to a movie the other day about the supernatural
I’ve never cared much for that genre, but the technology in the theater was so advanced
That the experience was more intense and realistic than Hell itself 🙂
The Conjuring
1hr 52min – Rated R – Horror/Suspense/Thriller
Director: James Wan – Cast: Patrick Wilson, Vera Farmiga, Ron Livingston, Lili Taylor, Shanley Caswell
Based on a true story, the film tells the horrifying tale of how world renowned paranormal investigators Ed and Lorraine Warren were called upon to help a family terrorized by a dark presence in a secluded farmhouse. Forced to confront a powerful demonic entity, the Warrens find themselves caught in the most terrifying case of their lives.
The Scripture seems to teach that we will be embodied in the resurrection and, at the same time, offers no argument that we will exist as dis-embodied spirits. Since consciousness and recognition are tied to bodily existence (pace Descartes), I can only imagine that we will exist as human beings embodied in the olam ha’ba.
To Michael:
“the experience was more intense and realistic than Hell itself”
Oh goodness, I think I’ll pass on that for now! But I can see that movies like this can be formative for the ‘right person’ at the ‘right time’ – sounds like it was for you.
On a much less disturbing scale , have you ever read “Flatland – a Romance of Many Dimensions” by Edwin A. Abbott? It’s available from Dover Publications for a buck! This little book really opened my eyes to the possibility of higher ( = spiritual?) dimensions. It’s a classic! There is even a cartoon-like movie based on the book, and a sequel called Sphereland. A lot of neat geometrical concepts are contained in the book, which can be read at many levels, e.g. that of a commentary on Victorian social mores, attitudes to women, etc. The language is quaint, and woth reading for its own sake!
Job makes it clear to those who GOD gives clarity.
Job 14 and Job 19
WE die. We wait and when we are restored by CHRIST to HIM when HE APPEARS, we will be like HIM.
1 John 3:1-3
WE die and we go the way of all flesh.
Christ knows HIS OWN and when they DIE IN THE LORD ;they will be raised in the LORD for glorification.
The only good thing about death is that the old nature; the old man will NOT be coming up.
I have no intentions of dying and going to heaven.
Earth is my home even though I am NOT of this world.
This is where Adam was placed and this is where the SON OF GOD was placed and HE IS COMING BACK TO US who are IN HIS HOUSE.
TRUE: THERE IS NO HUMAN being without embodiment. We are a soul with a body with breath.
NOW I know that many will not agree with the resurrection being the HOPE OF THE CHRISTIAN but Paul wrote a full chapter on it in 1 Cor. 15 : for our understanding.
We are mortals and we die and then the judgement.
Not as flowery as many speak.. but I do hope you get the point here or the truth here.
Enjoy your many comments too..
🙂
Your comment that we are a “soul with a body with breath” is just as Platonic as the claim that we survive after death as disembodied souls. Please search out the origins of this idea. See my many TWs related to this and my citations of Jacques Ellul’s penetrating analysis. You can be Christian and endorse this Greek idea as many of the Church fathers did, but you cannot be biblical and endorse it. Yeshua did NOT come back as a spirit, and He made a point of demonstrating this.
In fact, Hasidic philosophy, especially the ChaBad school, views all physical and psychological phenomena as relative and illusionary; God, the absolute reality in itself, is beyond all physical or even spiritual concepts and boundaries. (WIKI)
Hmmm
Maybe I’m just a bit schizoid, but I don’t believe we are inextricably bound to the body
At the same time, I could take the other side of the argument
Don’t know much about Hasidic philosophy, but it is appealing to me in certain ways
“I can only imagine that we will exist as human beings embodied in the olam ha’ba.”
Hi Skip,
Our physical bodies decay and die, so they would not seem appropriate in the olam ha’ba
What about an astral body that looks like Skip & Mike but is spiritual rather than physical?
But if there is no death in the olan ha’ba, why would our bodies deteriorate?
“But if there is no death in the olan ha’ba, why would our bodies deteriorate?”
Hi Skip,
In my logic, we were originally designed to be born, to deteriorate, and to die
When we are “reborn” in the olan ha’ba, hopefully we will be redesigned
To not deteriorate and die
To deteriorate and not die would be Hell 🙂
WoW! What a Word.
This was what I asked a few TW’s ago-when our soul/spirit leaves our body, and when resurrected, would we remember who we are, would we still be who we are. Thank you for the reply!
I cannot imagine having no memory of who we are, because then what is the purpose/s of us here going through all the trials and refining of our nature?
It is a beautiful worthwhile journey to be on.
But to be first called out, and then to be pruned/perfumed/cleansed and taught the protocols of the Kingdom, as queen Ester, to be chosen. Examples of Moshe, Yaacov and Yosev, as well, disciplined to rule!
“But did you somehow think that God also repaired your character flaws, your unrighteous habits, your self-centered concerns?” NO!
“Could I enter the throne room of the most high God in my present condition and think of myself as welcomed?” NO!
“…this is the field of character development, not heaven.” YES!
“If you aren’t starving for righteousness on this earth, you may find yourself starving in heaven.” True!
Starving for righteousness and hungry for truth, to grow in favour of YHWH, not presuming I have arrived already in understanding and/or walking in all His ways in true Hebraic perspective.
What have I been thinking? All this time, that when I pass somehow the imperfections and lack of disciplining of myself were not going to be an issue! These past few mornings as I have read your study have put me smack in the middlenof inner conflict with how much I have to quit playing on the side lines. Seems weird to put this in writing right out there for everyone to see. I thought my reputation before others was the most important. See now that’s a first time revelation as well. Did the little sugary cake I just ate contain some type of revealing truth serum?
I can relate Babs. I stood on the sidelines, content in my gracious salvation, for a long time. I didn’t worry, really, about my walk, as I was told he will take care of it. If I sinned deliberately, it wasn’t THAT bad, all I had to do was confess and go on…even sinning again, if I wanted. There was always confession, after all. He’ll fix it all in the end. As long as I openly professed with my words I loved Jesus, everything will be all right. Just keep up the illusion while at church and around my fellow Christians. After all, WHO can live right? No one, so what’s the issue. Live free, profess the grace that enveloped me and don’t be concerned about anything except evangelizing others and being sure not to miss church as we are commanded not to forsake the assembling together as is the habit of some.
I heard it over and over again, sermon after sermon, week after week in numerable churches in numerable places.
I was admonished to ‘love the Lord my God with all my heart and all my soul and all my mind.” Ok, I strained to do that in the best way my little mind could figure it. But I still remained in the manner of life that said, don’t worry about sinning, you are covered in his grace. He will fix it all in the end. That pretty much led me to believe, “Come quickly Lord. Get this over with. I’m ready to be cleaned, fixed, and redone for Heaven’s sake.” You know I can’t do anything, Lord, so you do it in me. Go ahead, I let go and let you do it. I was never in the understanding that his instructions were given me to learn and study and to exert effort to comply with.
You know, I would never live my child’s life or grandchild’s life for them. I would never give them exhortations and push them out in the world and not expect them to tow the line morally. I would lead them with guidance and EXPECT them to do it, to follow my instructions. No, it’s NOT going to be alright when you’re 30 or 40 or 50 if you don’t learn and mature IN obeying truth in your own life.
How can I say I love him if I don’t do what he says? How can I expect to understand and reflect him unless I follow his instructions? I know he has adopted me because I have repented and turned to him, but the relationship is now one of reflecting him and his attributes. That is DOING. Believing is DOING, not just intellectual nods to the big guy!
“I have to quit playing on the sidelines.” A good way to introduce our lack of belief, faith, and doing his torah, his instructions, his directions, his ways, his life as exemplified in Yeshua’s actions, not just words. Yeshua’s life and actions were completely reflected and demonstrated in what he DID. How can we expect to occupy life any less than his example?
Thanks for your teaching. I don’t find any place in scripture that says we go to heaven.A lot of places talk about sheol a place of dormancy till the first reserection occurs,one I hope I am worthy of.My understanding is the earth was created for man not heaven.WE look forward to a renewed earth.
Sounds right to me. Consider that olam ha’ba actually means “the world COMING.”
I agree Brian.. Man was made for the earth and not heaven. WE may be in the heavenly ONE being IN CHRIST by faith.. but we are NOT bound for heaven but for THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN and not the KINGDOM in HEAVEN.. watch the of and the in of it all..
Carol, and Brian I want to express my agreement with you both on the concept that “go to heaven when you die” is not found in the Scriptures. Some say this “doctrine of demons” is of Egyptian origin and later became part of the many myths of Hellenistic philosophy / religion. Here are a few Scriptures that appear to me to soundly refute this widely embraced myth:
Yahshua said in John 3:13:
“No one has ascended into heaven, but he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.”
Comment: No ambiguity there, right?
Paul wrote to the saints at Rome:
“We know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now; and not only the creation but we ourselves who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.” (Rom 8:22-23)
Comment: A few verses earlier Paul writes in verse 19 that the creation is still waiting for this revealing of the “sons of God”. If the saints of all of history were already in heaven, what Paul is writing here would make no sense. Fact is, this revealing of saints will not occur until the great trumpet is blown by the Father Himself on Yom Teruah (Feast of Trumpets) and Yahshua returns to take over planet earth and rule it with His first fruit priest / kings. Here are Scriptures that support this notion:
“For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; (Note that they are coming out of the grave NOT down from heaven!), then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord.” (1Thess.4:16-17)
Comment: As Carol already posted there is a second witness to this first fruit resurrection found in 1 Cor.15: 51-52 and a third witness found in Revelation chapter 20!
The posts here on TW reveal needless confusion on how all of this ‘end of days’ plays out. So in a prayerful attempt to clarify things, I will spell it all out!
Let’s next go to 1Corinthians:
“Lo! I tell you mystery. We shall not all sleep (note Paul’s ref to sleep) but we (the first fruits) shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead (first fruits only at this point!) will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and the mortal put on immortality. (1Cor.15:51-53)
Let’s look at the third witness from John in Revelation:
“They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” (Rev 20:4)
“This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such, the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ and they shall reign with him a thousand years.” (Rev.20:5-6)
Comment: Some who post on TW claim that there is only one day of salvation. That is clearly incorrect! This last witness in Revelation documents that there is more than one resurrection. John spells it out here:
“The rest of the dead (the rest of humanity) did not come to life until the 1000 years were ended.”
(Rev 20:5)
Comment: I will comment on that group a little later. Let’s stay with the first fruit group for a moment. There are three Festival harvests identified in God’s festivals found in Leviticus 23 and elsewhere in Torah. These harvests model the pattern of the resurrections. We find that barley is the grain associated with first fruits and Passover season. Wheat is the grain associated with Shavuot (Pentecost) and is associated with believers in Yahshua who did not make the cut for the First fruit harvest. The last harvest in the Fall in Israel is the grape harvest and this harvest is associated with Sukkot (tabernacles). The wheat and grape harvests come up as the sheep and the goats in the second resurrection at time of the Great White Throne Judgment. Study the Festivals and you will see their prophetic and theological significance – they are far from done away and are mostly still unfulfilled.
In reviewing the posts on this topic several ponder what kind of body we will have in the resurrection. Both Paul and Yahshua answered that question. It is simple – we will follow the pattern of Yahshua’s resurrection and the pattern of His resurrected body. In 1 Corinthians 15 Paul teaches:
“Just as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the man of heaven. I tell you this, brethren, flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.” (1Cor.15:49-50)
But it is not the spiritual which is first, but the physical.” (1Cor. 15:46)
No surprise, we find Yahshua teaching the same thing in His marvelous dialog with Nicodemus in John 3:
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” (John 3:5-6)
Comment: Here Yahshua shows us the symbolic importance of water baptism, as a precursor to our true permanent spiritual birth with a glorious spiritual body – no longer subject to decay or pain or suffering.
Someone pondered whether we will still have the potential to sin in the resurrection. The apostle John answered that question:
“We know that anyone born of God does not sin, but He who was born of God keeps him and the evil one does not touch him.” (1John:5:18)
There is no question that as a brother / sister of Yahshua, all first fruits will share in His Glory and have a spirit composed body like His! Paul hammered this point home in his letter to the Romans:
“For those whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that He might be the first born among many brethren. And those whom he predestined, he also called; and those whom he called, he also justified; and those whom he justified, he also glorified.” (Rom 8:29-30)
Comment:The kind of body first fruits will have will be as we see Yahshua having after His resurrection. They will be able to manifest themselves in a recognizable form as we have now but not composed of human flesh subject to decay. We see Yahshua walking through walls and showing the marks from His crucified body:
“Eight days later, his desciples were again in the house, and Thomas was with them. The doors were shut, but Jesus came and stood among them, and said: ‘Peace be with you’. Then He said to Thomas, ‘Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand and place it in my side; do not be faithless but believing. Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:26-28)
It seems from the record of Yahshua’s post resurrection appearances that he ate food and could appear recognizable and unrecognizable at will. (See John 21) Because his audience was still human, He did not manifest himself in his full dazzling glorified body as it would be too much. But Daniel the prophet tells us first fruits will share in that glory also:
“And those who are wise,, shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.” (Dan 12:3)
There is no question that God is huge in rewarding those who are faithful and true to Him by doing His will. This is abundantly manifested in how He blessed father Abraham. It is no different for any of us:
“Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life.” (Rev 2:10)
” Eye hath not seen, or ear heard, not hath it entered into the heart of man what things God hath prepared for them who love Him.” (1Cor 2:9)
Comment: Friends, this is the great human potential – sonship and daughterhood of God!, adopted in as brothers and sisters of Yahshua, no more pain and fear, abundance and peace everywhere, hanging out with Noah, Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, David and 12 apostles and Paul. what a time it will be. And this is just the first “squadron” as Paul calls it! This Calvinistic idea of just a few being predestined “to be saved” is simply utter nonsense! By end of Millennium we will have prepared the earth to handle the Great White Throne Judgment of the billions who missed the first fruit cut. Everyone will face judgment and receive appropriate sentences as found in Torah
Thanks for this engaging review of many passages. I would note only a few very minor additions. But the whole subject reminds me of something I recently quoted.
I know nothing about death. But I know that God is eternal and I know that God is my God.
Skip
I am in complete agreement that character development is a strong part of the reason for our being on earth. But I am totally confused by the reference point in today’s lesson. It is my understanding that Moshe Luzzatto was essentially disregarded by the Hebrew scholars of his day because of supposed mentoring by some mystical, magical figure who only he could see. I also thought he was a major proponent of Kabbalah, which as I understand it was viewed back then, and still is currently seen, as a “distant crazy cousin” of Judaism. If that is the case, and I admit perhaps I am incorrect, why are we focused on what Luzzatto has to say anyway? If we want to focus on our unworthiness, surely there would be a better example to cite than Luzzatto?
Jude quotes the book of Enoch. Do we discount Jude because of his pagan source? If what Luzzatto says reminds us of our need to shape character here and now, who cares what the man may or may not have said in other places? Yes, he was rejected by Judaism, but as I recall, other people who we revere were also rejected by mainstream Judaism. I am not endorsing Luzzatto. I am pointing out that what he says makes some sense – and is powerfully convicting.
Now I always thought Enoch was one of the “good guys”. Genesis 5:24 – “Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.” Is there another Enoch, other than this one? I thought the apocrypha book was attributed to him? Thanks for any clarification if I’m missing something!
There’s been a few times during some SS class or Bible Study meeting that I referenced extra biblical sources and have been gently reprimanded to keep guard in maintaining only our recognized Scriptures as authoritative.
Briefly, in response, I asked them if they would share their favorite ‘Christian’ authors. What ‘good’ books you’ve read lately that has really helped and bolstered your faith. Of course, I received several notable books and authors as recommended reading. I questioned them as to what was so good about them, how did they help you, etc. They shared many of the same reasons I had for referencing several of the extra biblical historical sources I had mentioned.
I asked them what was the difference in their appreciation of the John MacArthurs, David Jeremiah’s, Max Lucado, Kay Arthur, Beth Moore, etc. and people like Luzzatto, Heschel, Flusser, Rambam, Notley, Rashi, etc.
Well…their books were vetted and approved by our local pastor and denomination, that’s why.
Sounds a little like Communism. Only approved books shall be read. Stay inside this circle contained in this box.
I’ve come out now. What a great place to frolic and explore! Hokhma (wisdom) resides in many places. All you have to do is look for it.
It’s worse than communism because it employs God as the backup authority.
The books of Enoch 1 and 2 were not written by the Genesis figure. It is apocalyptic literature. Yet Jude quotes it.
Thanks for the clarification!
Cool pics on your website, Rob.
My thoughts, Skip, those are nonsensical books, pseudepigraphal, a mixture of truth and imagination/fantasy, leading even some teachers to trust to preach from them, misguiding some folks.
If Song of Songs or Genesis were not canonized, would you call them nonsensical, fantasy, imagination? Would you keep Ecclesiastes if it didn’t have the last two verses? How do you decide what is canon and what isn’t? Read Lee McDonald to see just how complicated this question really is. And then remember that many God-fearing, Torah observant groups in the 1st – 3rd centuries believed some of these books were sacred Scripture until the Church bishops under Constantine declared them not so.
Question: How you go about deciding which text and word to discuss?
“And in Your book they all were written, the days fashioned for me, when as yet there were none of them.” A great paradox. God’s sovereignty and our free will. He is outside of time, but we are in it. There is a book with a page that has your name at the top. What does it say? What is your heartfelt desire that it says for “today”? Live it!
Be very careful with the “outside of time” stuff. That is pure Greek philosophy adopted by Augustine, Boethius and Aquinas. Read my book to see the devastating implications.
Might be better to say throughout time. Ever present.”I AM”. Its hebrew. i can get you the reference if you want.
I don’t need the reference. Thanks. The idea of EX-temporal existence is a consequence of the Greek idea of perfection, something not found in Hebraic thought and not expressed in the Tanakh. But it is very much a part of Christian theology. Heschel’s analysis is appropriate: Greek philosophical concepts do not produce the God of Israel. They produce a god of first principles removed from the affairs of men and discontinuous with creation. In this sense, the God of Christian theology is not the God of the Bible but rather the god of philosophers whose concern is with rational explanations of existence.
Maybe there are more dimensions of time than the one we are ‘shadowed in’ here…
Skip, I was referring to books such as “Enoch” (Pseudepigrapha=falsely attributed to authors bearing the same name/s) e.g. but uncertain if the ones I have read are the ones you have, because it seems some are not authentic.
In it it says, e.g. that Noach did not wish to get married seeing the wickedness of mankind, and the soon destruction of the earth. then it said Noach’s wife was almost double his age, and then that Rivka/Rebekkah was only 10 years of age when she was at the well drawing water, when Elieazer arrived at the scene, and she drew water for him and his camels, and she replied to her mother when asked by her mother if she will go, she replied Yes, all this at 10years of age.
You have mentioned she may be 14-16 which should be more likely.
Then the moon going through certain spheres etc…with hallucinatory visions of heaven and hell, angels and devils, Enoch introduced concepts such as fallen angels…. I read this and other books a while back, can’t really remember much, as I stopped after a few chapters.
Why are they considered sacred texts by the Jews. “How do you decide what is canon and what isn’t?” True!
Doing some search and study right now 🙂
Some teachers, if not most, teach on the fallen angels bringing forth nephilim from procreating with women of the earth. I find this misleading. Nowhere in Gen 6 mentions angels, only man, and sons of Elohim.
Skip, appreciate your comments on this, as it has bothered me some, thank you.
Revision to question: Skip: How do you go about selecting which text and word(s) to discuss?
It’s bumps in the road. A journey of conviction and thought. What comes next is usually what I am trying to grasp.
Paid in Full
~ More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my LORD, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish so that I may gain Christ, and may be found *in Him*, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death;…~
These are the words of Paul, formerly known as Saul. Here is the short (and sweet!) version:
~ not “I”- but Christ ~
~ I have been crucified with The Messiah, and from then on I myself have not been living, but The Messiah is living in me, and this (life) that I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of The Son of God, He who has loved us and has given Himself for us. ~
Yes, “dressed in His righteousness alone,”- faultless to stand before the Throne.
The question- (the big one) is- Am “I” now, today,- and this very moment- *IN CHRIST?*
This, dear friends is the decided difference between the Old Covenant and the New (and improved!).
It is Christ (Himself.)
~ to be found *in HIM* not having my own righteousness ~ This will never happen. I cannot “save” myself. I must look to “another.” That “other ONE” is Christ. He and He alone is the Savior and Redeemer. He is (in total agreement with John the Immerser) the Lamb of God,~ the Lamb sent from God who takes away the sins of the world ~
The master theme, the central theme of all of God’s Book of Life is this very thing: ~ Behold, (take a good long long) the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world ~
~ Because God SO loved..He gave ~ Here is the greatest love. There is no greater love than this. If love may be measured by sacrifice (and it may) is there- was there a greater sacrifice (ever) than this?
Return with me to Calvary and let us all “Behold the Man upon a cross- “my” sin upon His shoulders..”
While the Law may reveal or expose the darkness of our sin- it is only the blood of Christ, the second (perfect) Adam that will cover or atone for our sins- and the sins of every man since Adam.
Was (is) the cross of Christ necessary? Absolutely, for according to Levitical law,~without the shedding of blood is no remission for sins ~
I have wondered about this for years.. Shall we review some history? Let’s talk about Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement. May we?
And while we are here, may we once again look unto our High Priest, who is a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek?
Who entered once a year behind the veil? It was the high priest. But that high priest, the priest who ministered then- is dead and gone. What about our High Priest? Is He dead? Or does He now “ever live” to make intercession for us? ~
(Cartwheel time for Carl- selah!). The answer, my friends is “Yes!” ~ He ever lives to make intercession for us! ~ No more mundane Mondays.. no more trudging through Tuesdays.. no, His victory is complete-full and final. This High Priest, ever lives to make intercession for us!
What is our only response to this? Can it be anything other than “bow the knee?”
~For the preaching (the proclaiming) of the cross is to them who are now perishing, foolishness; but unto us which are saved (and being saved)- it is the power of God ~ (1 Corinthians 1.18)
Here again are the words of Paul, formerly know as Saul: ~ May I never boast except in the cross of our LORD Jesus Christ, through whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world ~
(Galatians 6.14)
How marvelous, the grace that caught my falling soul..- He looked beyond all my faults, and He saw my need!
I will pray the very same prayer of the blind beggar, one of the best prayers ever offered by any man: “Yeshua, Thou son of David, have mercy on me! LORD, save me!”
~ because He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He ever lives to intercede for them ~ (Hebrews 7.25)
~ ask, and you will receive.. seek, and you will find.. knock (patiently/persistently) and it will be opened unto you.. ~ (Matthew 7.7)
Hi Carl,
I am not sure that your post sheds any light on the topic at hand. While it captures what we would expect to hear in a sermon, it doesn’t address the issue of working out character flaws now before we die. Perhaps I missed something that you wrote, but I found that your comment was something I heard over and over in church before I began to seriously exam the text.
Ditto, as I skimmed it.
The text referred to is the written word of God. “It is written” is how we (all) roll. Yes, please.. absolutely “search the scriptures..”- but Why? ~ for these are they that testify to (Who?). Again, (not to sound “preachy”, (if you wish to call it that- and some certainly will) but all the scriptures (New and Old, from Genesis 1.1 through “the end” testify of one Man, the Man Christ Jesus.
It is not about the Jew or the Gentile, or you or me or what’s his or her name. It is about the revelation of a Savior, ONE who has been crucified, buried, and resurrected for the sins of (both) Jew and Gentile.
One thing we share in common. “All have sinned.” Do we need someone with a triple Phd or for that matter someone who has spent eight years in a seminary to shed some light on the true meaning of “all?”
Does all include the Jew? Yes. Does all include the Gentiles/Greeks/non-circumcised? Yes. Males? Yes. Females? Yes. “All have sinned.”
What is it, dear ones, that separates us (sinners, all) from our thrice-holy God?
What then, is the solution to this? More study? More enlightenment? More culture? More tradition? More education?
The topic at hand is “they.” They, dear brother is us!
So, you are saying Scriptures are NOT about Jews and Gentiles?
It seems to me it’s ALL about Jews and Gentiles.
Two classifications of peoples in Scriptures, Jews, and EVERYONE else – Gentiles. That’s you and me and the whole world!
All of Elohim’s instructions are reduced to one-love the Lord your God with all you heart and your neighbor.
I have to know and understand and study all the particulars of that all encompassing, sweeping statement before it means anything to me. Does loving someone mean beating them to death to ‘save’ them from MY fears? Does loving someone or God mean creating my own vision of love and implementing it whether God approves or not? Exactly what does it mean?
I can’t just settle with ‘it’s all about the Savior’ without understanding the relationships he has with Jews, with Gentiles, with himself, with the world. I have to dig in and try to understand it all over the days I have here on earth. A three point sermon outline just doesn’t get it. Yes, there is simplicity in it all, but order is splattered everywhere with chaos that needs to be organized and rendered understandable. That doesn’t come simply by an alliterated sermon repeated over and over again. It takes effort, energy and movement in and through his words to us, our inspection of what has come before (history) and the shared discoveries of us all generation to generation.
I’ve finally been able to see that sermons can be helpful, but it is MY responsibility to know, understand and implement what God demands of me. I believe all of Scripture is true, but simply repeating it via rote English hasn’t and isn’t going to reveal and uncover the tangible and real dynamics of deep truths. There’s more that needs to be done than sitting and listening to the results of other people’s research. I must do my own by dissecting and structuring the truths and evidences I find so as to line up with all of Scripture. I should only be spoon fed in the beginning and then taught to feed myself from the Scriptures. I haven’t been, unfortunately. Now, I’m struggling and wrestling with those verses that I’ve heard over and over and over again. I know what the English says. Now I endeavor to know what Yeshua and his audience understood it to mean as it relates to me and others alive today.
That doesn’t come for me by endless hearing of the same thing over and over. It doesn’t happen for me by osmosis but by grinding out meaning and attempting to understand it practically as it was originally offered, not by what some preacher proclaims it.
My character needs much improvement. That’s on me listening to his instructions and DOING what he says.
I’ve read Scripture on a surface English version for years and thought I knew exactly what it said. Then I do some simple digging and discovery and, whoa, I was way, way off. I didn’t consider this or that and certainly not THAT issue this verse was wrapped in.
“Jesus wept.” I’m touched. But WHY did he weep? What was the circumstances, background, essence of his weeping? Was he sad? Was he scared? Was he happy? Was he sick? Did he just twist his ankle? Did get stung by a bee? What? I need more than simple recitation of verses over and over again.
Sorry, I just must be a dullard.
Agreed,
It may not be answering what is posted Skip.. but it sure answers to the Spirit that the HOLY SPIRIT has given to me.
Uplifting the ONLY ONE who is the Answer for all of us no matter if Hebrew or Greek.. He is the Answer. Let us come and adore HIM..
The Gospel is dropped in the midst of confusion and turmoil and darkness, — a LIFELINE– just in case anyone should see the glorious once-in-an-eternity offering and want to choose life.
It will not always be offered. Today is the day of salvation.
an opportunity of eternity
I meant my comment to read: “dropped INTO the midst” — if this refinement helps any to see what I am talking about.
There are so many sheep-wrecks.
Tides of apostasy are swift and dangerous, few there be that are not dragged under.
Jesus is the only way of being saved.
Yes, salvation is an opportunity, it will not be forced upon anyone.
“sheep-wrecks” (love it!)
~ For you (also) were continually straying like sheep, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Guardian of your souls ~ (1 Peter 2.25)
~ The grace of our LORD Yeshua The Messiah is with you ~ (1 Corinthians 16.23)
~ Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck ~ 1 Timothy 1.19)
Along the lines of learning, improvement and refinement of our character, Luzzatto, at the very beginning of “The Virtue of Vigilance” chapter points out the following:
(Note: My former standing surely would have shuttered, balked, and assigned this writer among the heretics.
however, now, I relax in gleaning from him some pretty good advice. Not speaking here of being reckoned righteous by God through faith, but character development)
“The concept of vigilance relates to a person’s actions and affairs He must contemplate and survey his actions and his conduct, to see whether they are good or not, so as not to risk the loss of his soul, Heaven forbid. And he must not pursue his habits thoughtlessly, the way a blind person walls [as] in darkness.
This is surely something that is dictated by common sense. Is it conceivable that, when a person has sufficient knowledge and understanding to save himself and avoid the loss of his soul, he should willingly close his yes to his own salvation? There is nothing as base and as foolish as this. He who acts this way is inferior to the animals and the beasts that instinctively protect themselves, fleeing and escaping from anything that appears harmful to them. He who walks in his world without contemplating whether his path is good or not is like a blind man who is walking along a riverbank – he is in grave danger and more likely to come to harm than to be saved. For the risks of natural blindness or of willful blindness (the latter meaning that one ignores [the issues] consciously and deliberately) are one and the same.”
He speaks of learning and acting out vigilance in our lives. To take the specific actions, learned from developing a keen eye, in order to do and carry out those things that are needful and important in regarding to what God requires of me.
Am I vigilant about this task, or am I walking around like a blind man, careless of that which pleases my God.
He has a strong point. I need vigilance daily to follow his mitzvoth. I need to exercise the intelligence he gave me in order to conduct myself with vigilance in this regard. There needs to be a constant examination of my ways to confirm or not whether they are commendable, reflective of his character.
I like reading Luzzatto. He meticulously dives in to the meat of life and faces it head on. That I would follow his example.
I have never heard of Luzzatto let alone read any of his writings but I agree with the idea of diving into the meat of life and facing it head on.
I really appreciate your thoughts here Michael. We choose to be vigilant or not. Seems to me that the wide road talked about is one absent of said vigilance. I can say from my own life’s walk that I can get pretty sloppy and find myself blindly walking along that river bank heedless of the inherent danger right beside me!!
Skip talked in a previous post about the yetzer hara being like a team of work horses-powerful yet able to be controlled with strong hands on the reins. I see my life being like that. Strong and capable of great things both good and bad. Depends on my choices and whether or not I have a hold of those reins.
Vigilance and laziness are mutually exclusive and it seems to me that the general trend is towards laziness in the modern church.
I am greatly appreciating all of the comments on the recent posts. There is much to be thought on and there is some serious meat within this site to chew! It is good to see iron sharpen iron.
Many years ago I heard read a similar quote that was just as sobering. The author said something along the lines of, “In regards to character, our last day on earth is the same as our first day in heaven.”
The only way that God can guarantee that sin will not rise again – without taking away free will – is if heaven’s inhabitants were already familiar with, and in-love with His ways. God will clear up many orthodoxy and orthopraxy questions – but the only people it is safe to bring into heaven are those who have already formed a heart of willing obedience.
Sobering indeed.
Brings to life the admonishment to “work out our salvation with fear and trembling”
“…we enter the olam ha’ba in the same condition that we leave this world…” What about 1 Corinthians 15:53: “For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality”? Or verse 51: “…we shall all be changed.” Or verse 43: “[The body] is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.” And I’m looking forward to the time described in Revelation 21:4: “…there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying; and there shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
Does not the “new covenant” mean a new heart with Torah written upon it? If the millennial kingdom is the place where we work out our salvation then we would stand before our Lord with sin in our life not as a mortal having put on immortality. If we are to become perfect before we die I do not expect to see a remnant equaling “the stars of heaven, and the sands of the sea”. If we are not able to save ourselves neither are we able to perfect ourselves, except to have faith in God to keep His word to change us into His likeness.
Please distinguish (as Scripture does) between guilt and loyalty. God removes guilt, not me. I show loyalty to Him. I am not working out my GUILT in fear and trepidation. I am working out the loyalty I owe Him. The guilt issue is settled by Yeshua’s faithfulness, not mine. But who I am under His grace is up to me. God’s Kingdom is NOT a nanny state.
Great distinction. I wish I could have articulated that better in a recent discussion.
If we/I are men of faith does that not imply loyalty. How can one be disloyal and faithful?
Apologies for interjecting, but I think you are right. We cannot really be faithful, and yet disloyal,… AS LONG AS our definition of “faith” is untainted.
If I remember right, Skip’s understanding of Hebraic “faith” – is “steadfast loyalty”.
Skip.. I receive that word about the difference between guilt and loyalty ..
Yes, and these passages are too often taken in the Platonic sense that we will somehow be entirely different. But did Yeshua come back WITHOUT scars? What does it mean to put on the incorruptible? Does it mean to have all those character flaws that YOU were responsible to adjust suddenly removed? Or does it mean that you won’t DIE anymore? If Paul is Jewish, and he doesn’t have the same body/spirit nonsense that Plato has, then what does this mean to him? What does it mean to be raised in “glory”? These verses all sound great but we have to remember what they would have meant to the FIRST audience, not to us 2000 years into Greek thinking.
Skip,
1 Cor 15: 42 speaks of the resurrection of the dead, sown in corruption, raised in incorruption, ….sown a natural body, raised a spiritual body…
Yeshua was buried and resurrected in a new Body-both physical as Thomas could touch Him, and spiritual as He could go through walls.
Is there a lack in Hebraic paradigm in understanding these verses.
1 Thess 4:16,17 When Messiah returns, the dead in Him shall rise first, then the living who did not die shall be caught away to meet Him in the clouds…
This is NOT what christianity quote as “the rapture”, because when Messiah returns there will be a shout and the trumpet will be heard. Nobody disappears!
These living bodies will be instantly changed to incorruptible so as to rise up to meet Yahshua in the air? These will be the Bride, and will reign with Him with the saints/kadosh ones who had gone on before, in the Millennium over those who are still disobedient, who will still go through death.
There has to be a qualifying criteria to be in this category to have that same body-both physical and spiritual, to defy gravity, that is no longer subject to corruption.
Thereby we are to encourage one another to obedience in submission to His ways, thoughts, commandments/law, and nature, to be changed back to His image we were created in the beginning.
“Does it mean to have all those character flaws that YOU were responsible to adjust suddenly removed? ” NO; these flaws would have to be dealt with already.
Please explain? Thank you.
Here’s what I know and don’t know. I know that there is no concept of disembodied human life in Scripture. That idea comes from the Greeks. I know that we will all be resurrected and that seems to imply embodiment (as the original creation also implies embodiment). I also know that we die and deteriorate, but God says we will live after death.
What I don’t know is how this is possible or what we will be like after this happens. For that, I’m afraid, I will have to wait. I don’t know what a spiritual body is, but I know that it isn’t a spirit without a body.
Skip, the traditional view of 1 Peter 3:18-20 is that Jesus was not in a state of soul sleep during the time his body was in the tomb, but that he “went” and preached during that time.
Can it not be true that while there is no such thing as disembodied human life on earth, that such a state exists in a non-terrestrial setting? That is, a state of being that is different from here on earth but none the less self-aware?
IT might be true of Yeshua, but then, I’m not the Son of God and neither are you. So there isn’t much of an analog to draw from here.
The Disciples recognized Moses on the Mt of transfiguration. The witch of Endor recognized Samuel when Saul had him called up. Neither were yet resurected as in the first resurection. There must be a spiritual body that awaits a reuniting with the resurected body of immortality.
yes, but recognition means that none of these were DIS-embodied spirits. They were recognized as human.
Thanks Skip, Appreciate your time in replying.
Can spiritual body mean (sorry, just sharing what I’m thinking), a special body like what Daniel here wrote, that can transcend both physical and spiritual, like Philip who was transported Acts 8:39, 40. Could that be an example?
Mark 12:2 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the messengers/angels which are in heaven.
-is another example.
We will have a body with a spirit, but a better one that cannot be corruptible/decay/deteriorate, nor die anymore! What a great day to look forward to!
Shabbat Shalom!
Try to reformulate this response without using any words that suggest a separation of body and spirit. See where that take you. Nephesh.
Skip, as far as I understand (!) a spiritual body is a very material body that is reigned by the spirit. As we are spiritfilled with His spirit by than, there will be no room for anything contrary to His will. As far as I can see it….
A second thought: if we are made alive with Him, we will never die. And if there’s no death, the sting of sin is gone.
That’s why I cannot agree with mister Luzzatto: if we are spirit filled by than, there will be no more room for ‘me’, my soul-(reigned) body (psuchikos, KJV: natural body): 1 Corinthians 15:42-49. In the ressurection we will be very diferent from what we are now. Now our feelings, anxieties, fears, joys, lusts reign us. Not so than! We will be like Christ in His ressurection!
Good points all. But then, of course, Luzzatto didn’t read the New Testament.
Seems there was always a better way for the children of Israel than the way they would choose. The wilderness was 40 years of character building, and most of them died. We know the journey should have only taken a few days. The Creator of the universe chose them above all other peoples but they did not chose Him. Things would look so different if the people would have chosen to go up the mountain and talk with God instead of running in fear of judgement, they rejected His lovingkindness and tender mercies, they rejected His covering and protection as a faithful loving Father and chose to be slaves to a king “like every other nation”. Abraham found Melchizedek and he was blessed, but the israelites wanted to meet with God outside the tent of meeting, not face to face, so God accommodated their request (as usual) with an alternative method of relationship, which was to introduce the Torah as a teacher for life outside the tent. Choices are so powerful! Character could be measured by bravery-because the invitation remains, “come up here, let me show you…my ways, let me consume your efforts and wash you clean, let me kiss you, whisper my love, I will heal you, and restore you, there is no lack in me or you in me.
If Torah observancy was currency, it would have little value because what can it actually buy? It only gets you into Aaron’s presence. There is now a new currency made with better promises even sealed with the precious blood of the Lamb, who has sworn with an oath active and binding in time and eternity! There is a price, your life, your love, your devotion, your joy, song, communion with Him inside the tent.
But you misunderstand the role of Torah. We have been over this so many times that I just don’t have the energy to keep at it – and all of the material is available for anyone who really wants to look on the web site. Torah is NOT about salvation!!!! It is about living IN THE KINGDOM after you have been welcomed in by grace. Its currency is holiness, not sacrifice. Heschel: A Jew without Torah is obsolete. MOEN: A Christian without Torah is irrelevant MOEN 2: The Church without Torah is pointless.
Did you think you could be a citizen of the Kingdom of NO RULES? What Kingdom has ever existed that did not have any expectations for how its citizens should live. Oh, I can think of only one – the “kingdom” invented by the Gentile Church to accommodate Romans. We still have it today and it is still accommodating the culture.
I was speaking of the notorious 3-point sermons. Well, if ever there’s a good 3-point sermon, there’s one:
1 – A Jew without Torah is obsolete!
2 – A Christian without Torah is irrelevant!
3 – The Church without Torah is pointless!
Amen. Let’s repeat that over and over and over.
I was, for the longest, in the midst of ‘walking with Jesus’, obsolete, irrelevant and pointless!
I’m finally beginning to get it.
Torah living has substance, significance and salvific character.
In Galatians Paul directly addressed a sect of men who had more concern about religious observance than about abiding in Christ.
Same thing is still preached today; adherence to Mosaic Covenant Law in addition to the simplicity of the Gospel.
2 Peter 1:
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through (thru what, the Law of Moses?)…no…) the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: (this would have been a great place to add the LOM, if He wanted it)
2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through (thru what?) the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3 According as His divine power has given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, (HOW has He given this?) through the knowledge of Him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these you might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
THEN a FAILSAFE list, — I need failsafe, not uncertainty!
Lets see if we find reference to the LOM included in the failsafe plan.
5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that you shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacks these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and has forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if you do these things, ye shall never fall:
**11 For so an entrance *shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
WHAT? Did the Holy Spirit just say that we *CAN enter the everlasting KINGDOM of our dear Lord and the ‘list of how’ does not mention the LOM?
12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though you know them, and be established in the present truth.
13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;
14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ has shown me.
15 Moreover I will endeavor that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance. (Yes, Peter, my dear brother in Christ, I do remember)
16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of His majesty.
17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory, when there came such a voice to Him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. (hummm….God is not so pleased with the LOM as He is with His dear Son)
18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with Him in the holy mount.
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto you do well that you take heed, (I’m taking heed, dear brother, taking heed) as unto a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
Dorothy,
You bring up some EXCELLENT verses which show why WE MUST use the bible to define biblical terms. One great example is about the Holy Spirit – what does it do in our lives?
Ezekiel 36:26,27 – “26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.”
The Holy Spirit CAUSES US TO WALK in God’s statutes. There is not conflict between God and God.
But what about the New Testament?
Acts 21:20-24 – “20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will c hear that you have come. 23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law.”
IT IS PAUL’S OPPONENTS THAT SAY HE IS TEACHING CONTRARY TO MOSAIC LAW. Those OPPOSED to Paul used his teaching about circumcision – to accuse him of teaching contrary to Moses. You and I should not do the same thing!
Hi Gabe, I will get back with you on this, I need time–not ignoring your reply, thanks.
Was wondering it you are back from Ecuador.
Yes, thank-you – I’m back. It was only a 10 day mission trip, and I am a little worn-out, but definitely blessed and humbled by the experience.
Gabe, today is ‘catch-up’ day, as if I ever can.
I imagine you and I will still be on opposing sides after all this, but I said I’d be back, so here I am.
I do not oppose our brother, Paul. I love Paul and look forward to hugging his neck.
I thought getting this together may be lots of work, but as it turned out, I enjoyed it and learned new stuff. Just anyone try to make Bible study boring or dutiful, God comes along side and it become delightful. Every time!
The zealots urged human works in opposition to the faith of Christ; but Paul calls them evil-workers, the *concision; as they tear apart the church of Christ, and cut it to pieces. The work of religion is to no purpose, unless the heart is in it, and we must worship God in the strength and grace of the Divine Spirit. They rejoice in Christ Jesus, not in mere outward enjoyments and performances. Nor can we too earnestly guard against those who oppose or abuse the doctrine of free salvation. If the apostle would have gloried and trusted in the flesh, he had as much cause as any man. But the things which he counted gain while a Pharisee, he counted loss for Christ. Christ is the One, He is everything, the law was shadow.
TRUE knowledge of Christ changes men, changes their judgments and manners, –open their eyes– and makes new again.
A believer prefers Christ, knowing that it is better for us to be without all worldly riches, than without Christ and His Word.
Paul clung to Jesus Christ. With no Christ, we are undone, have no righteousness, cannot appear before God, for we are guilty. There is a righteousness provided for us in Jesus Christ, and it is a complete and perfect righteousness. No one can have it if they trust in themselves. Faith is THE means of applying the saving benefit. It is by faith in Christ’s blood. We are made conformable to Christ’s death, when we die to sin, as he died for sin; and the world is crucified to us, and we to the world, by the cross of Christ. The apostle was willing to do or to suffer any thing, to attain the glorious resurrection of saints. This hope and prospect carried him through all difficulties in his work. He did not hope to attain it through his own merit and righteousness, but through the merit and righteousness of Jesus Christ.
Righteousness is obtained through FAITH.
Phil. 3: 2 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things again is no trouble to me, and it is a safeguard for you. Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the false circumcision; 3for we are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh,…
If you need more proof texts than these supplied, just see the rest of the N.T. !
Acts 21:20
When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law.
Romans 9:31
but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal.
Romans 10:1
Brothers and sisters, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is that they may be saved.
Romans 10:3
Since they did not know the righteousness of God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness.
Romans 1:1
Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the Gospel of God–
Romans 9: 33
As it is written: “See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall, and the one who believes in Him will never be put to shame.”
Romans 9:32
Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.
Skip, I give up LOL. Nephesh is one and the same as spirit….it is our being.
Does that mean we will remain as who we are in nephesh, but without a body??
Or, with a new body.
ezerna 🙂
There has been an average of about 34 comments per blog post in here over the last ten TW’s. That seems pretty active to me. Jolly good!
I enjoy writing and yesterday I wrote this about my sunflower, that I cut and brought into the house. I think it may, sort of, go along with what skip wrote about today. I also, think of the verse in Isaiah that says “come, let us walk in the light of the Lord.”
Thoughts about Sunflower seeds
My sunflower drooped in heavy FULLNESS.
I cut it off and brought it in.
I was Surprised by the number of closely packed seeds; I was amazed!
The large sunflower reminded me of a theater or classroom where people come and sit very near to each other and they sit still,
and they sit quiet,
and they sit by strangers,
and they focus and take in what they believe is beauty
beauty in song, and or ideas.
The sunlight had a similar effect on the seeds.
As the light shone on them, day by day they grew fuller, and took in that which made them mature.
Soon they would reproduce. More beauty, more plants.
Do ideas and music and stories ripen us as we take them in and act on them? Bring character?
Do they fill us as we sit and take in the thoughts and talents of others? Are the ideas coming at me of the light? When I respond to them are my actions righteous?
I ask myself which group am I closely knit to and how will I be influenced by that which is my focus?
SUNFLOWER STUDENTS
The forest full of tall pine trees,
The sunflower full of ripening seeds,
The shining sun-light grows them.
Just as the patient teacher leads.
Lois,
I love garden analogies. Gardens teach us (well me anyway) so much about YHWH and life.
This is proving to be very interesting.
We say one thing and it is taken that we are saying another thing.
Mmm..
I can truly see why that JESUS HIMSELF said that HE would teach us and what HE TEACHES we are to obey.
I again am not sure just where all this is heading but believe it or not.. in my understanding as little as it might be.. I am more inclined to believe the OLD TEST. and the Hebrew over the Greek or the platonic as you have said Skip.
I still believe JOB and all of the prophets and apostles of the MOST HIGH as spoken and as led by THE LORD GOD HIMSELF.
Just do not know what to make of it when JOB and the prophets word before GOD are taken as taken as platonic when it is as written.
I am beginning to feel really sorry for those just coming into the kingdom and there is not the simplicity of the GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM that is needed in these last days.
May GOD be honored in all that we say here and may HIS word be hidden in the heart of HIS children.
As far as I can tell the Torah was never about salvation or holiness.
Holiness is a mystical union with the Lamb of God-available to anyone who would come, an invitation that preceded Torah and succeeded Torah.
A sacred journey that makes rules obsolete.
What?! Doesn’t the great commandment ask us to be holy? What is the purpose of all those instructions about “be holy for I am holy”? Where did you get the “mystical union” idea? Holiness is not at mystical state. It is acting as God would act, doing what God would do. That’s why even SPOONS can be holy.
Sharon, are you familiar with The Puritan Library? I think you will enjoy it.
http://www.puritansermons.com/watson/watson3.htm
Skip… you have your work cut out for you with all these different minds coming and commenting..
Mmm said the blind man as he tripped over the hammer and saw.
Great comments, great questions.
Back to one of the original issues in this tw, let’s ask some questions. The gift of a question is perhaps one of the greatest things our Creator endowed us with, without it, it’s impossible to truly learn.
(1) Why the thousand year reign? if it’s all finalized here, for those who live and die here, why not just resurrect the righteous at the beginning of the eternal kingdom instead of the “millennial precursor?” (I’m assuming an understanding (maybe a bad idea!! 🙂 of the 1000 year reign as different from the new heavens and earth)
(2) (or maybe 1B) why the “mixing” of the resurrected ones and the “natural born” in this kingdom?
(3) Why does sin still exist, although greatly subdued and why isn’t righteousness reigning fully? Why the permission by God for this? Wasn’t the near destruction of creation enough to finally rid the earth of unrighteousness?
(4) Why in the Hebrew is 1 and one thousand the same. Is it significant that a 1000 year timeframe isn’t mentioned in the whole of the “old testament”?
I just bought a bell for the counter at work, so that if the employees are out of sight the customer can let us know they are there. The majority of people that I work with have expressed their dislike for it in a number of ways. Just recently I began to coax the children who are with their parents to ring the bell (loudly) just for fun. I also had a bicycle horn in the vicinity, so while they ring the bell, I blow the horn. What a noise we make! They love it, especially after I tell them that we make beautiful music together!!
You know what? even those who expressed dislike of that bell have come to enjoy the interaction with these children, they laugh quite often now.
Think on these questions, think up some more, share your thoughts and convictions with the rest of us. Maybe we can make some beautiful music together. Maybe, we’ll do it with a smile. Maybe we’ll learn and grow.
YHWH bless you and keep you……
thank you Dorothy,
The tears started flowing as I started reading, and won’t stop.
your friend, sharon
I was thinking about how refreshing it is to receive the “meat” of the Word on each of Today’s Word posts. Always something to really “chew” on. (Keep it up, Skip!)
Then a thought occurred to me…
Some people insist that we go back to the bottle of milk. It seems they are unaware or “afraid” of the meat.
Or do I have that backwards? Perhaps, before YHWH opens our eyes to the “wonders” of His Torah (Ps. 119:18) we did have the meat and were “choking” on it, unable to digest it properly. Hmmm. If that is the case, then ONLY after receiving the milk (Torah), can we properly DIGEST the “meat”.
Which way is it?
I just don’t see these as great comments or great questions. I see this stuff about Torah, Salvation, Working it out, Holiness as a mystical union or what Torah is and what it is not as immature questions and comments. Let me be offensive here, are people really so dull that they can’t grasp the simplicity of how Torah functions in the lives of God’s people. Gallagher you do have it backwards, Torah obedience is the milk, lets keep moving forward and leave behind all this talk about Law and Grace. How can a community grow in understanding if things always revert back to Law and Grace?
Thank you.
Hi K. Gallagher,
Rightly so.
If folks are not fed well on the milk of the Word/Torah from the BEGINNING as a baby, their growth is stunted, and their understanding is warped, they therefore cannot chew on the meat of the Word as Skip has been presenting here in TW, which so many of us appreciate.
Shalom!
Milk is introduction. Hopefully we are past that phase.
C S Lewis said:”Christianity asserts that every individual human being is going to live for ever, and this must be either true or false. Now there are a good many things which would not be worth bothering about if I were going to live only seventy years, but which I had better bother about very seriously if I am going to live for ever.” I do so hope I have more than the three score and 10 years mentioned above, as I’m rapidly approaching that with out much to show for it or to take into the Kingdom should it come today. Lord, be merciful to me…a procrastinator. Thanks Skip for the wake up call (again). It is too easy too fall asleep or be distracted at the switch, which is not good if you are a disciple of Yeshua or, as we have seen of late, if you are the engineer of a train. Train wrecks (physical and spiritual) costs lives. Lord be merciful to me … a wreck. On a more positive note, it is refreshing to see so many new names in the discussions the past few days-welcome one and all. Pull up a chair and enjoy the show or better yet, suit up and be part of the show; drink as deeply and quickly as you are able (but never quit thirsting, for the day will come when the well will run dry and all you have is what you have-may it be enough to sustain you and feed others). I, for one, have been well fed and watered on this site; as well as washed, cleansed, wrung out, hung out, ironed, run over, smashed, ruined, edified, stupefied, challenged, changed, healed, humbled, blessed, taught and 101 other things which words cannot fully describe, but without which I would be a lesser man and a poorer disciple. Lord be merciful to me…a saint.
Skip –
Your thoughts here are brilliant and resonate deeply with me. I’m anxious to read Mesillat Yesharim. The olam ha’ba has been a prominent topic of study and contemplation for me the past two years. The ideas and emphasis on heaven and hell in Christian thought show just how far we’ve been separated from the Biblical worldview, perhaps as much as any other subject would. Our Greek eyes are fixed on tomorrow and eternity while God is trying to get us to focus and work on today. It’s still difficult at times but I’m getting better at not looking over my shoulder while I row.
I seldom venture into the comments portion of Today’s Word despite being encouraged by some close friends to do so. Frankly, I lose patience with some that feel a need to heard here. The argumentative and nonsensical rants are more than I care to tolerate… most of the time. I applaud your restraint and composure but wouldn’t think less of you if you began filtering some of those things out. Just my two cents.
Thank you, Skip, for your diligence and faithfulness to this work. It’s had an immeasurable impact on my life.