Untranslated Yeshua
Then the LORD said to Moses, Numbers 7:4 ESV
(said) – Things happen in Hebrew that never make it into translation. You know all about the ‘et, that particle in Hebrew that designates the next word in the sentence is the direct object. Never translated. Then along come Messianics and make a very big deal of this linguistic marker, claiming that the alpha-omega of Revelation is really the aleph-tav of the Hebrew alphabet and this, since it spells ‘et, means that Yeshua is found everywhere in the Tanakh. Fascinating. But certain?
Now let’s look at another oddity of Hebrew. In this sentence, the Hebrew contains two words expressing “said.” The translation could be, “Then YHVH said to Moses saying,”
Both words are from the verb ‘amar. The first form expresses the action of YHVH (He speaks), but the second form (lemor) repeats this action. It is not translated. Why? “Grammatically, it is used simply (like a colon) to indicate that a direct quotation follows. However, most of the time lemor precedes a teaching or law that Moses is required to communicate to the Israelites.”[1] Tucker points out that what is odd about this verse is that lemor does not precede something Moses is required to communicate to the Israelites. This give rise to several midrashim attempting to explain this exception. The rabbis worried about such things.
We, however, might notice another connection. In the Greek text of the gospels, we often find something like the following (from Matthew 5:2), “And he opened his mouth and taught them saying.” The sentence seems odd to us. After all, is it possible to teach verbally without opening your mouth? Why the redundancy? But it wouldn’t be odd at all if Matthew were thinking of Yeshua as the new Moses. The redundancy would occur because Matthew wrote the Hebrew word lemor and the Greek translator actually translated the word, yielding two words for “speaking” in the same sentence. Furthermore, if this is what Matthew had in mind, then he is literally incorporating into the text a suggestion that Yeshua is in precisely the same place as Moses, receiving from YHVH something that he must pass on to the children of Israel. The pattern of lemor in Numbers shows up in Matthew.
If Matthew wrote in Hebrew, every Jew that read this would immediately connect it to the way YHVH spoke to Moses. Every Jew would immediately understand that Matthew is proclaiming Yeshua as the prophesied new Moses. Every Jew would realize that what Yeshua says comes right from YHVH. The untranslated lemor becomes evidence for the Messianic status of Yeshua.
Amazing what we can’t read in translation, isn’t it?
Topical Index: lemor, said, ‘amar, Numbers 7:4, Matthew 5:2, Messiah. Moses
[1] Abraham Heschel, Heavenly Torah, in explanatory footnote by Gordon Tucker (#56) on page 534.
Thanks Skip for bringing up the “et”. There are so many reasons why that whole theory is so wrong on so many fronts, it’s not even funny. Of course it makes for great book and bible sales. As you say “along come Messianics” and… Things always get messy when scholarship gets the boot over theory, assumptions and speculations.
I totally agree with you on the reality of what gets lost in translation. No doubt about it. That’s a great reason, in and of itself, for taking the time and putting in the effort to learn the languages.
I really do want to believe that the Apostolic text was written in Hebrew. I mean who doesn’t once we become “Hebrew minded”? The problem though, is that there isn’t one single scrap of physical evidence that can support that. And much that supports Greek. Now we even have the gospel of Mark fragments, that more likely then not, pre-date 90 C.E., in Greek.
I guess I’m just the odd ball that thinks theres absolutely no significance to any particular language. Hebrew isn’t Holy, it’s just a language, one that the majority of our Tanach has been wrote in. There are many ancient documents that were written in Hebrew, many that didn’t have a single thing to do with Scripture, if Hebrew itself is Holy, then those would have to be considered Holy too I guess.
I just don’t find any more flaws in Greek then I do any other language. Doesn’t matter one single bit, to me personally, if the entire Bible was wrote in Greek. Fact of the matter is, we have evidence that the LXX was even used in many synagogues during and prior to the the 1st century. The Rabbi’s didn’t have any problems with the Torah being in Greek until after the early Christian years. And of course, over half of all the Tanach quotes in the Apostolic text are directly and word for word from it.
Anyway, another good post Skip, I pray your travels are being blessed.
I’m not trying to scrap or anything but you lost me at, “Hebrew isn’t Holy it’s just a language”. So I figure I might just share this. There is a reason why He chose Hebrew as the language to communicate. There is a thought process and that comes with it that describes His thought process that can only be found in Hebrew. There are words like ‘hesed’ that have no ancient near east cognates and is a word that describes Him – meaning is a unique word only found in Hebrew. Let alone cannot be defined in Greek other then ‘love and kindness’ which doesn’t even touch it let alone describe the four definitions happening at simultaneously.
Further more, written – well there wasn’t pen and paper next to Yeshua as they walked with Yeshua. Everything was transmitted orally for a very long time (I believe for 80 years). At the time that’s how you memorized everything, you listened and retold. It’s been said that back then you could repeat teaching up to a 90% verbatim accuracy, because that’s how you learned. They were speaking Hebrew, thought process was Hebrew, they were Jews not Hellenist.
So the problem lies at your proposal at ‘it doesn’t really matter’ type of tude to it. It would matter if the Bible was written in Greek vs Hebrew or if it was written in Japanese or Chinese or Spanish. It’s like talking to an Eskamo about snow and saying, “Snow is snow so whatever” when they have 50 words for it, all meaning something different. He choose Hebrew because it’s verb base not noun base, it has words that aren’t borrowed at all and totally unique that describe things that we can’t describe that don’t translate over unless you know Hebrew.
Written, well Matthew didn’t write Matthew and Mark didn’t write Mark – but the message and the thought process that was spoken about was surely in Hebrew. You see this with Paul making up random Greek words because he doesn’t have ones that follow his Hebrew thought process.
It doesn’t mean that it’s Holy in the sense that you are holier then me if you speak it, BUT it is the language that was transmitted from Sinai which has weight to it.
Just food for thought.
Thank you for your very well thought out response.
I understand where your coming from and it makes great sense. And of course your most definitely entitled to your opinion on it. There are still many problems with thinking that God always and only spoke to mankind in what we’re calling Hebrew. Languages, all of them, including Hebrew, change over time. We really don’t know what He spoke when He created, nor do we know what He spoke to Abraham Isaac and Jacob. We know it was probably nothing close to what we call Hebrew today. Abraham wasn’t Hebrew or Jewish.
And as I stated, the “Greek” Tanach was used for a very long time in the majority of synagogs. So, it doesn’t really hold up that that words, thoughts and revelations of Himself, can’t be communicated in a language other then Hebrew.
Also, although there wasn’t “pen and paper”, as we know it today, nonetheless, the tanach was wrote down. Not just transmitted orally. Many things were wrote down, far before the 1st century. In fact even John says “but these have been written so that you may believe”. Regardless of who wrote Mark or Matthew, they were still wrote down, and rather quickly after Yeshua, an the evidence says they were wrote in Greek. Since the word was to go out to the nations, and the majority of the known world spoke Greek, that only makes sense.
I do understand how you or others may find my “tude” about the Hebrew language as an affront but, the fact is, I don’t think the Creator of heaven and earth has any problem communicate His revelations, thoughts and instructions, in any language He wants too. And I don’t think for a second that anyone thought less of the tanach, or weren’t able to fully get it’s meaning, because it was primarily available in Greek for many years. Just as I don’t think it matters one single bit that our Apostolic text is wrote in Greek instead of Hebrew. The problem in “getting it” isn’t about the language it’s wrote in, the problem is normally the mindset of the one reading it. Regardless of what language they speak.
Hebrew, was and is, just a “common” language. And anyone that understands Greek normally has no problem understanding the Greek manuscripts that we have. When combined with knowing the Hebrew, understanding the meaning of scripture and communicating it, just isn’t to difficult. Hebrew doesn’t hold a “secret key” to scripture. Many that know it, still miss it.
Shalom
Respectfully, “Abraham wasn’t Hebrew or Jewish.”, in fact he was Hebrew – he was the first Hebrew. Hebrew just means to be crossed over. Being Jewish is just from the tribe of Judah so that doesn’t exist for a long time (or the southern kingdom) I mean if you are looking for written evidence then it might be hard to point too but it’s safe to assume that if He gave the Torah and doesn’t change and is outside of time and gave it in Hebrew then we can assume He spoke Hebrew.
“Many things were wrote down, far before the 1st century.”, teachings were not one of them. It was a Jewish custom not to write down Mishnah from your teacher – you just wouldn’t do it. If they thought Yeshua was a rabbi (which they refer to Him as) then they wouldn’t write it down anything Yeshua did. Furthermore they didn’t need to write it down. After Yeshua’s death they could just ask, “Sally” what she saw. I believe the first manuscripts weren’t written down until 80 years later or the round about of that, because they could just ask eye witnesses.
It’s not about understanding what it says, it carries a 180 degree different mindset when comparing Greek and Hebrew. Hebrew only cares about actions, Greek cares about thoughts and static ideas. That’s why to a Greek when you say, “Believe in Jesus Christ” it means say, “I believe in Jesus Christ” but to a Hebrew it means, “To believe is to do, I have to do what He did – I don’t care what I think.”. There is no word in Hebrew for doubt, it doesn’t exist , there is no word for religion – there aren’t these boxes.
No I don’t think that He has a problem speaking in any language he wants. But there are things lost in the language if it’s not your mindset. Again hesed is a word that it’s definition turns out to be 12 sentences in English but all you have to do is say, ‘hesed’ to a Hebrew and they are in lock step of what you are saying. We would be like, “Oh love and kindness” but it’s not really even close to it – way heavier. Same thing with our word for grace or chen it’s not really the same thing.
I guess we’ll leave it as I doubt I’m going to persuade you and I doubt you are going to persuade me on our thinking but I enjoyed our discussion.
More. Abraham was ETHNICALLY Mesopotamian. You might call him Hebrew AFTER THE FACT, but that doesn’t change his birth ethnicity. God uses him to begin a new line that becomes Israel, and therefore, Hebrew, but Abraham doesn’t change his stripes concerning his birth.
Second, please be aware of what is implied when you suggest that Torah is “outside of time.” The logic of that statement can be seriously challenged by the arguments in my book. And since MOSES wrote the Genesis account, we cannot assume that God was speaking HEBREW to Abraham, or anyone else in early Genesis, for that matter. The text wasn’t written for ABRAHAM. It was written for those who already spoke Hebrew, long after Abraham.
Also, please note that while there are substantive differences between the Greek concept of the world and the Hebrew concept of the world, they are not 180 degrees apart so that NO communication can exist between the two. If that were the case, translation would be impossible, not just difficult. Greek does find ways to express action and Hebrew does find ways to express state of being. See James Barr on this. We just have to be careful and try to understand the AUTHOR in his own time and culture.
I guess what I’m saying by the outside of time is that YHWH doesn’t it spell out in Hebrew, ‘It was”, “It is” “It will be” meaning outside of time? I know, I have your book on relationship with time and know that’s your jam when it comes to stuff – I don’t get it maybe (clearly)
As far as the Greek and Hebrew being off by 180 degree’s, so you would think that mindset is more similar? I mean I’m obviously far less educated then you but just reference to “Law” and they are just about as 180 off that you can get or am I wrong. If they were closer wouldn’t we not be so far off when it comes to stuff with Modern Christians vs Hebriac Christians. Doesn’t it come with influence from the language? Language carries mindsets?
I mean I don’t know a lot for sure but isn’t there evidence that God spoke and then through the aleph-tav it world was formed. I mean Hebrew is the only language that when chanted the letter, so “Alephhhh” it actually makes the Hebrew letter “א ” in sand. Rico Cortes has a whole teaching about it done by rabbis. It actually forms every letter in when chanted, tav makes the letter tav etc. So God spoke the letters and they formed the world?
Hebrew is unique, in SOME regards, but it is also a Semitic language and shares a lot in common with other Semitic languages including borrowed words, etc. The uniqueness of Hebrew might be that God used it to communicate to His people, but then,how else would He have done that. In Phoenician? In Egyptian? He had to communicate in a language they understood, right? And don’t press the “language of the Garden” idea to hard. Moses wrote the story for people who understood Hebrew. Once again, how else would he have communicated to them? The audience of the story was NOT Adam. It was the people of Israel who already spoke Hebrew.
Yes, there is structure elegance. Yes, the language is fluid, dynamic and relational. But it isn’t the only language like this. Try Mandarin.
I have recently read a book about the origin of language. I’ll have to go find the title. The linguist who wrote it shows that MANY Semitic languages seem to originate from an older common mother tongue. We are inclined to think of Hebrew as a “sacred” language because of our theological preferences, but that might be as far as one could push the idea. After all, we don’t consider Phoenician sacred and the Hebrew aleph-bet clearly is derived from it.
How obvious could it be that you do what you do and write as you do, because Adonai has clearly blessed you with the ability to do so.
Thank you Skip for conveying my intended communication, even better then I could have. I think you put it all exactly as I was trying too.
I’m not saying that Hebrew is a “weaker” or a less significant language then Greek. I’m just saying it’s a common language like all the others. I think since the Torah was clearly given in Hebrew, it is important to understand Hebrew. But, it isn’t necessary, in my opinion, in order to understand and do Torah. Or to understand the Tanach as a whole as well as the Apostolic text.
I also believe that it absolutely “was” intended for the words and deeds of Yeshua to be wrote down. The “not” writing of the Mishnah has nothing to do whatsoever with the teachings of Yeshua and His Talmidim. I also feel, based on the evidence, that the Apostolic writings were intended to be wrote down in Greek. Of course that’s not to say some of them “couldn’t have been” written in Hebrew as well but, we have not a single shred of evidence of that.
Not exactly. We have a few “shreds” of evidence, we just don’t have fragments or manuscripts before the 10th century. But we have the witness of Papias and others. Of course, we might argue technically that we don’t have any of the ORIGINAL Greek fragments either. I take Blizzard and Biven’s argument seriously, but that does not mean that backward translations of the Greek into Hebrew are canon. It only means they help us see what Yeshua might have said, because everyone will admit that Yeshua did NOT teach in Greek.
Where can I read/learn about their arguments? I’ve been on a Dr. Blizzard kick as of late.
True that we have a few indications that some of the text may have been written in Hebrew at one time or another. But, we have no actual evidence that the original’s were. Even though some historians have mentioned or gave reference to a couple Hebrew Apostolic writings, that still doesn’t mean that’s what they were originally wrote in. And 1000 years after the fact is a very long time.
As I said earlier, since we have manuscript evidence now as early as 90 CE from a gospel, and we pretty much assume chronologically, as many do, that many of Paul’s writings probably pre-dated the Gospels, we can get fairly close to the time of Yeshua. I mean 30-40 years after His resurrection, is very close to the time in which the events took place.
No we have no original manuscripts of any of the Bible. It stands to reason, in my opinion, that since it was intended for the deeds and words of Yeshua to go out to the nations that it would have been intended to be wrote in a language other then Hebrew. Especially since speaking the Hebrew language would have been primarily in Judea.
To Mark and Skip, just wanted to say thanks for bringing up some points that I haven’t thought of before and makes me want to do some more research. I’m always nervous with going back and forth when it comes to someone reading what I’m writing that can’t hear me – people could read it in the wrong tone. Trust me when I say, I’m just curious and asking questions and sharing what I know – not trying to be hostile. All this is especially difficult in days like today where I had to put down my 18.5 year old German Shepherd early this morning. So being on Skips blog has proven to be a pleasant oasis to be and discussions about God are a nice place to be.
I never took anything you’ve said as hostile. Actually, when I read many of the things I’ve written in the past, if I didn’t know me, I’d think, “this guy is argumentative” or at the very least “a know it all”. But, the truth is, I’m fairly ignorant in the matters of the Tanach, culture and languages. Even though It’s been over 30 years that I went through my “saved” experience, I’ve only been a serious student and study of the languages, culture of the 1st century etc., for about 5 years. More often then not, I’m wrong, rather then right. But, personally, being shown my error or being enlightened about this or that, is something I welcome.
I’m also a very firm believer that we should be in real up close and personal communities. Without the one I’ve been in, and the balance an accountability it brings, I’d probably be so far out to the left or right, it’d take the Messiah Himself to break my straying sheep legs to get me back. Well, I guess He has done that, more then once.
Blessings to you and your home Derek. And I look forward to more interchanges with you.
Didn’t take you as being argumentative or anything. Thank you and the feelings are mutual.
I’ll be honest, you guys are probably onto something but I’m to dense to get it.
I don’t get why the whole Bible would be written in a Semitic language then all of a sudden it’s not. I don’t get how you can have a football game and pretty much say, “the rules are this, the goals are measured in this way etc” then half time comes and say, “the rules have changed, the teams have changed and are goals are measured differently”.
Is it just me or is it odd? I mean why not Chinese then for the New Testament? Or am I the only one that says, “they changed languages half way through the story…odd…and by the way the two languages aren’t even close to sister languages”. I don’t get it. Like I said in the first sentence, maybe just I’m dense.
As far as needing to understand the original language agree and disagree. I agree think you can understand big strokes if you will, by looking at a different language but there are connections that cannot be made or things that cannot be seen that are some major points without knowing the language. But isn’t that what this whole blog is about? We see it in English then Skip says, “Well that’s not what it means in THIS LANGUAGE *BOOM*” and the whole thing unravels? I mean by no means am I a fluent Hebrew speaker but I relentless to and have been teaching myself Biblical Hebrew this year and I can just say things do have a different feel to them and a different weight in Hebrew then they do in English.
I don’t think that you need to speak a certain language though to communicate with God. Didn’t know about the Phoenician thing (kinda cool) but still don’t understand how that connects with Hebrew having unique words of some sorts.
Hi Derek, I appreciate your seeking, all these comments edify us in this community too. Your humility and patience jumps off the page!
My two-cents’ worth- no other language except Hebrew can express what Adam, or adamah means. In Mandarin 男, man/male is written as Field upon strength, no where near what Adam means in Hebrew (from the dust) but there is a reference to the field the ‘man’ (Adam) is to guard with his strength.
Mandarin language can be very interesting, but so difficult to master in written form.
Shalom.
I so agree with you Derek! Our God is not a random God. He has a plan and a purpose and His will be done.
Where is it prophesied that there will be a new Moses? I would like to read it. Thanks.
Deut 18:15-19. Also repeated in Acts 3:22
Wasn’t that in reference to Messiah? The whole chapter (Acts 3) is couched such.
Thank you.
I read or heard somewhere, that when we read that “Jeshua opened His mouth and said” that what came forth after that was directly from YHWH, the Father. Was that from your teaching, Skip? If this is true, did Jeshua say anything that was not from YHWH in our scriptures?
the expression is probably a Hebrew idiom translated into Greek. You can see the same thing happening with the prophets.
For what it is worth. All I know is in shul we are taught that Hebrew is the holy tongue. We can pray in any language from our siddur (order of service, worship book) for our daily blessings but Hebrew is choice. The first thing a rabbi does when someone joins a Jewish community is teach Hebrew to them. The next things taught is tradition and liturgy. We are taught Torah existed before the foundations of the world were made.
So what I am thinking is when Mark said that the rabbis didn’t have a problem with the Greek maybe it was they allowed it for whatever reason during the time but Hebrew was still choice? If I go to a Hassidic Russian shul like Chabad the Hebrew is on the left page of the siddur and the Russian on the right page. No matter what it is we do for reading Hebrew is everything because it is the language that binds us Jews together. I can go to any country in the world and read out of the siddur because it will be in Hebrew thus we can all worship and learn together no matter where we are from.
I’ve enjoyed reading the conversation about the languages. I don’t know much about Hebrew or Greek. I guess that’s why I enjoy Skip’s blog so much. As I was reading the different comments, the Scripture that I was reminded of was Acts 26:14 where Paul is recounting His encounter with Yeshua. He said he heard a voice, presumably from heaven, speaking to him in Hebrew. It seems that Paul knew Hebrew and Greek and probably some other languages. Do any of you see any significance to the heavenly voice of Yeshua speaking to him in Hebrew instead of some of the other languages he understood? Does this add any weight to what the previous comment says, and what I’ve heard is a common thought among Jewish people, that Hebrew is the holy tongue?
Unfortunately, if He ever spoke to me in Hebrew, because I do not know Hebrew (yet), it would probably just sound like Greek to me….