The Anti-Isaac God
For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline. 2 Timothy 1:7 NASB
Timidity – “If I am to tell you who I really am, I must tell you about my feelings, whether I will act upon them or not.”[1] If this is true for human beings, don’t you think it is also true for God? Can we really know who God is if He doesn’t tell us how He feels? Feelings encapsulate what it means to be me, what it means to be a person. If I leave them out of the story, you can’t really know me. If, as some theologians suggest, it is logically impossible for God to feel (the doctrine is called impassibility), then either 1) it is impossible for me to know who God truly is or 2) God is not a person in any meaningful sense of the term. The Scriptures certainly paint God as a feeling being, but theologians are quick to convert this to anthropomorphism to avoid the conclusion that God changes, and is therefore not perfect (perfect things do not change). But this is a mistake. This assumes the Greek idea of perfection, something that the Scriptures never attribute to God. As a result, we human beings are cast totally adrift when it comes to knowing God. We can know the idea of God, but we cannot know Him as a personal being because according to this logic, He isn’t one. C. S. Lewis recognized this when he said that God is an idea. He believed that the person of God was found in the Father, Son and Spirit. But why should we rewrite the Scriptures? They clearly show YHVH as a person—with feelings! Why should we allow a Greek philosophical idea (perfection) to reformulate what the text says? Answer: Because we are really Western thinkers, not Middle Eastern followers. We end up at the same place that Isaac ended, as recognized by his own son. Western ideas produce a God of dread, an unknowable, unpredictable, dangerous God whose lack of consistent character can wreak havoc on our lives. Actually this isn’t such a Greek idea after all. It is precisely the view of the ancient Middle East about pagan gods. They were best avoided since they had no inherent compassion for men.
Notice how Paul counters this mistaken view of God, still popular in the pagan mythologies of the first century. God has not given us a spirit of deilia, a Greek word derived from deos, meaning “dread” or “fear.” God, the consistent, faithful God of covenant promise, has not given us Isaac’s experience. We do not have a God of paḥad. We have a God who is compassionate, merciful, full of grace, slow to anger, just and faithful. Deilia is not in our vocabulary. This means that our God must be a God of feelings, otherwise we would be forced to conclude that we should dread the Supreme Being. Greek theology must go. We can’t live with a God of perfection. But we can love a God of compassion.
Topical Index: deilia, deos, fear, dread, paḥad, timidity, perfection, 2 Timothy 1:7
[1] John Powell, why am i afraid to tell you who i am, p. 74.
Skip, I was revisiting the phrase “fear of God” yesterday, and comparing what I used to THINK it meant, vs. how it has actually played out in my life. I will have to say I was pleasantly shocked. I was reading Romans 2 this morning and was struck (again) by how we condemn ourselves by how we condemn others. God in His mercy understands that we are deceived about what love is when we fall for temptation, and He says that He does not fault us for that! We do; by how we respond to the failings of others. Romans tells me that I bring judgment upon myself ONLY when I judge others, and that God stands ready to forgive it all, but only if I do, first. That got me to thinking about the “fear of God” again.
I used to be full of fear and feelings of being condemned, but when I repented for judging others, that dread faded. Now, if I notice condemnation, I know to go looking for ways that I am judging others (or myself!). That leaves the “fear of God” in a very interesting place right now for me. I prayed about it, as I was thinking about the subject of fear in general.
I suspect fear exists to let me know that there is a break in a line somewhere that needs fixing. Now, as the world cannot fix anything, it has come up with all kinds of ways to live with fear Istress); but God has not given us this fear/condemnation, so that must mean we give it to ourselves. What does the “fear of God” mean, then? I asked myself what I was afraid of yesterday. I realized that the points in my day where I feel condemned/afraid are the points that LOOK like problems with who or whatever, but I had an epiphany when I saw there was one answer to it all: reconnect with heaven! If I fix the break with God, then that fixes the break with everything else. Voila! Problem solved. So, the “fear of God’. What is it? Is He afraid of losing contact with me? Is it possible for God to be afraid? If I share HIS fear, will I not fear the same thing? To do that would be sharing one heart: His.
I go to a Jewish synagogue each shabbath and in attendance is a retired rabbi who once said he was tired of the word FEAR in describing our relationship to God, but preferred the word AWE.
Reverence.
I find it saddening that modern culture has trivialized the word “awesome” (and “epic”).
The teachings of Christianity that generates the most dread, fear, controversy (and, dare I say, income) are those related to hell, eternal punishment, fire and brimstone. Many intellegent people seemingly have legitimate moral qualms about a loving God who would eternally punish any of His creation for sins of a temporal nature. They (rightly?) argue that the Torah itself teaches us that YHWH defined justice as an eye for an eye, not a life for an eye. There are many who have left the camp of the Bloodthirsty God of Revenge and Retribution and there are manifold many more who have refused to be bullied, intimidated and manipulated into a relationship with a compassionate, merciful God who will cast them or their loved ones into an eternal flame of torment and anguish for their inability to reconcile the unfathomable. Perhaps it is time to rightly divide this doctrine that (wrongly?) divides so many. I, for one, am ready to hear something other than the “Sacred Traditions” and teachings of the Catholic church or the sermons of Johnathan Edwards. Can we dive into Dives and swim into the murky underworld without losing our faith (but maybe our religion)?
I’m with you Michael. Torah was a gift both from relationship and of relationship that defined righteousness as behaviors that effect the cosmos. We now start from relationship that create behavior whereas sin starts from behaviors that create relationships. Contrast in Christ with in sin, body of Christ and body of sin, judgements of Christ and judgements of sin etc etc.. The focus on behaviors alone has led to defining Yeshua and YHVH is terms relative to temporal experiences. Not realizing sin was relational what we heard was coming from the judgements of sin not judgements that should be sought more than silver and gold. As an aside, since judgements are the working out of justice it was also not clear the source of justice.
As Skip said, we must unpack before we repack.
I am also with you. I attended for decades a denomination that includes in its statements of faith that anyone who does not accept Jesus will suffer conscious torment in Hell forever… well beyond an eye for an eye. Personally I think our loving Father God will reconcile all things by burning dross away and by washing dirt away, leaving only pure metals and clean clothing. Isaiah had a coal from the altar touch his lips. The action purified him, it did not leave him with burnt lips.
Well, Michael, if we are done with the Trinity this is a good area to explore. But exactly where would you like to begin? It’s a big topic. (Bring your paradigms.)
Daniel, Re your challenge. I don’t know whether to laugh or …
try!
Admittedly my thoughts on this topic are in a state of flux. Having been raised a Catholic I inherited false teachings on the subject and then as a young man being “born again” and studying under fundamental evangelical Baptist hyper-Calvinist teachings (which included hell as a hot topic) I have potentially been indoctrinated into more false teachings on this subject. I recall the controversy Rob Bell’s infamous book LOVE WINS created when it first was published and it set me on a slow path to examine this issue further. So I am content to let the heavy hitters play while I observe and learn from the sidelines. I promise NOT to tell anyone to “go to hell” if I disagree with their doctrines, dogma or destructive deductions!
Michael, you suggested we dive into Dives. I love studying that parable because it is so misunderstood. My objective is to show that God does not eternally torment anyone. Let me try with a few of the misunderstood / mistranslated words from it. (If I error, may the Greek geeks please correct me.)
BASANOS & ODUNAO
The word torment is used four times in the KJV. Twice it is a translation from the Greek word basanos, and twice from the word odunao.
BASANOS (Strong’s G931) (NASB also = Torment)
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments . . .
Luk 16:28 . . . lest they also come into this place of torment.
Literally it means a touchstone, (basanite), used to test the purity of gold or silver by the color of the streak left on it when rubbed (tested) with the metal. Because this rubbing or grinding found the pureness of the metal, a similar physical “grinding” test was applied to people to determine their goodness. This testing became known as a trial or ordeal. Further understanding of Basanos is found in its one other use.
Matt 4:24 and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and TORMENTS, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.
This basanos “torment” is associated with diseases of the physical, spiritual, mental and nervous types but not with anything like the “torture” of eternal hellfire.
ODUNAO (Strong’s G3600) (NASB = Agony)
Luk 16:24 . . . for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 . . . but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
These verses show the other two uses of the word tormented in this story. The NASB uses the word “agony” instead. An agony can be either emotional or physical. Most would immediately assume this agony/torment in the second verse above is physical because it is associated with a flame, but we shall see this is not the case. The word, odunao, is used only twice more in the NT, both again by Luke.
Luke 2: 48 KJV And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why have you thus dealt with us? behold, your father and I have sought you SORROWING.
In referring to Paul’s last goodbye, Acts 20: 38 KJV, SORROWING most of all for the words which he spake, that they should see his face no more. And they accompanied him unto the ship.
I think you would agree with the KJV that the translation “sorrowing” is more appropriate in these two verses than “tormented”. It is perfectly clear the pain is emotional because of the separation of loved ones. Therefore, if the word odunao means sorrowing, and not torment, in these two verses, then it probably also means sorrowing in the story at hand. The Rich Man is sorrowing in the flame and his suffering is emotional, not physical. Thus the verses are consistently translated as,
. . . but now he is comforted, and you are SORROWING.
. . . cool my tongue; for I am SORROWING in this flame.
FLAME & FIRE
But how does one “sorrow” emotionally in a FLAME? Doesn’t the flame in this context change the meaning from sorrowing to torment? No. The Greek word for FIRE is not found in this story. The word, “fire” is used in 79 NT verses and it literally does mean fire most of the time, but this FLAME is symbolic. Note the word used is flame and not fire. The Greek word for flame is “phlox” and it is used only six times in the New Testament. In each case the flame is closely associated with God and is a symbol of affliction and not physical fire. Flame has a distinct connotation from fire. Yes, the Lord takes His vengeance, but He does not eternally burn anyone in a literal fire.
Perhaps we should associate flame’s use with the way we symbolically use burn, as in, the manager’s stress left him burnt out and exhausted; the girlfriend was burnt by love; the runaway borrower burnt the lender, who is now burning with anger. This symbolic burning is the feeling of an intense EMOTION but it has nothing to do with real fire; it is a symbol of affliction. The NT uses flame in a similar way.
FIRE
I do not deny God will utterly burn up sinners in real fires. For example, fire is used three times in the three consecutive verses below and all of them mean real fire. John the Baptist was teaching a crowd of repenting Israelites out in the wilderness but when the Pharisees and Sadducees arrived he said to them in Matt 3: 10-12
. . . every tree which brings not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire . .
. . . he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire . . .
. . . He will be gathering His grain into His barn, yet the chaff will He be burning up with unextinguished fire
I don’t deny God uses fire to destroy mortal humans but He does not use it to torture them endlessly and that does not prevent Him from later resurrecting them later into an ordeal of corrective reconciliation. This is what I believe the Rich Man will experience in the future and that he will finally surrender (willingly) to the overwhelming love of God.
Daniel, Thank you for the in depth explanation of torment in line with possible Greek correctness. Now could Luke rather be referring to trial and tribe lation testing than actual horrific experience. Why I ask is because Skip has explained that YHVH visits to correct not to condemn. That would the fit in with the process of testing purity allegorical speaking. Which seemsvto be the general why individuals explained things in Greek and Aramaic…
If I am wrong at thinking this way…
I have been waiting for the right point to share an insight. This being the closest conjunction of thoughts. Following is a quote from a boy who lost his twin brother and 27 other choir friends in the Yuba City High School choir bus accident of 1976. They where my friends. We in Sonoma County recently have had to face the internal struggle regarding the dread of trubled and the blessing of deliverance from it. Where was God in Los Vagas, or. Coffee Park? Tom Randolph understood through his experiance a most profound truth he is in it all..
“There are times and places where something so tragic happens that Heaven itself kneels down and touches the earth. This does not take the nightmare away – that would reduce reality and its abundance, instead it blesses both so that, no matter what, God’s love is always at hand for us. The only thing the Lamb of God has ever taken away from us is our sins…for that was His will.”