The Lucifer Myth
“How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, you who have weakened the nations!” Isaiah 14:12 NASB
Star of Morning – In an important research article, Roy Blizzard exposes the pagan origins of our usual concept of Satan. It’s worth reading:
The Lucifer Myth
By Roy B. Blizzard
A recently discovered mask of the Greek god Pan was featured on the front page of the November/December 2015 issue of the Biblical Archaeological Review. This large, bronze mask is not only impressive and unique but helps shed light on a passage of scripture in the New Testament text of the Book of Matthew Chapter 16 as well as Jerome’s fifth century Vulgate translation of the Old Testament Book of Isaiah Chapter 14.
The mask of Pan that was unearthed at Hippos (ancient Sussita) along the eastern shore of the Sea of Galilee has been carbon dated back to the first or second century of the present era. Few people realize that Panius, the principal city of Caesarea Philippi, was the largest center for worship of the Greek god Pan in the entire ancient world. A pagan shrine to Pan that existed in Panias in Jesus’ day was built at the entrance to a large cave opening into the mountain at present day Mt. Hermon. This cave was considered to be the entrance into hell and when Jesus speaks of the “gates of hell”, it is this cave to which he is referring. Although the shrine to Pan has long since been destroyed and only fragments remain, nonetheless, the cave still exists as do the ruins of the shrine seen below:
The cult of Pan continued well into the 4th Century CE and beyond. It was the image of Pan that gave birth to the physical visage of what we call Satan or the Devil. It is possible that the bronze mask found at Hippos could have been part of this shrine for the worship of Pan which usually involved drinking, nudity, orgies, and rituals of an ecstatic nature. Pan was the god of the wild who liked the company of nymphs and played rustic music utilizing the panpipes or syrinx. Note the image below of the Greek god Pan found on the Mildenhall Great Dish currently housed in the British Museum.
©Trustees of the British Museum
As this image shows, Pan was half man and half goat. He was horned and furry and in Greek mythology he could incite lust, panic, mindless fear, and rage. The discovery of the mask of Pan at Sussita provides a key for us in better understanding an important passage recorded in Matthew 16:13 in which we are told that Jesus and his disciples were on their way to the region of Caesarea Philippi. Jesus asked his disciples “Whom do men say that I the Son of Man am?” and “But whom say ye that I am?” After some discussion Simon Peter answered and said, according to English translation, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.” Jesus replied “Blessed art thou Simon BarJonah: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Looking at this in English, it doesn’t seem to be all that confusing but then again, it’s not all that clear either. However, when one looks at the text in Hebrew, the original language, the meaning is quite different. When Jesus asks his disciples, “Whom do men say that I the Son of Man am?” Simon Peter answers in Hebrew “ata hu hamashiach ben elohim hachim.” “You are the Messiah, the Son of the God who lives” (as opposed to the god Pan, who does not live but who is worshipped in this place).
There is also confusion about upon what rock Jesus will be building. In Greek Peter’s name, Petros, means small stone or rock but the Hebrew word for rock that is used in this passage is selah indicating a larger or immovable stone. Peter’s spiritual awareness is the foundation that Jesus is going to use to build his kahal meaning congregation. Some scholars such as Professor David Flusser and Dr. Robert Lindsey have even suggested that instead of kahal the word should be edah, which means a witnessing body. This translation comes from the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Qumran community that refer to themselves as the edah. Further examination of Jesus’ statement in Matthew 16 provides another interesting point. He says “… upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” In other words, upon this immovable foundation, Jesus is saying the power of the edah will be such that no other force, i.e., Pan or any other gods, will be able stand against it. With this knowledge, one can see that the idea or concept of Pan as being representative of the Devil is more important than one previously may have thought.
How did this concept of Pan being connected to the Devil come about? Actually, this idea relates back to a very important passage of scripture contained in the Book of Isaiah Chapter 14, which is a prophecy pertaining to Israel’s captivity and release and the role of Babylon. Isaiah 14:12 is the culmination of that prophecy, describing the fall of the King of Babylon, Belshazzar. Possibly this scripture has been one of the most frequently mistranslated and misunderstood scriptures in the entire biblical text. Isaiah 14:12 reads in Hebrew “ech nafalta meshamim helel ben shachar.” Translated it reads “How art thou fallen from heaven, bright shining one, son of the morning!” This is a reference back to Belshazzar and not a spiritual being called Lucifer as I will explain.
It is important to understand that in Belshazzar’s day, every city throughout Mesopotamia had a ruling planet or constellation. According to Babylonian cosmology, the planet Venus, the bright shining star of the morning, (Brown Driver Briggs Hebrew English Lexicon no. 1966) was the ruling planet over the city of Babylon where Belshazzar was king (referenced in the book Ancient Near Eastern Texts edited by James B. Prichard page 310). In the Book of Daniel, Chapter 5, we are told that Belshazzar and his court were having a great feast when, in the midst of the festivities, a hand appears on the wall and writes “mene mene tekel upharsin.” To Belshazzar and everyone else’s consternation, nobody could explain the unique phenomenon or translate the writing. Somebody remembered Daniel and suggested that he be called to see if he could find the meaning of the writing. Daniel interpreted it to say that Belshazzar was weighed in the balances and found wanting and that very night his kingdom would be taken.
Bible skeptics have questioned this account in the fifth chapter of Daniel. Until relatively recent times, there was no record of any Belshazzar in the lists of the kings of Babylon. Only King Nabonidus was listed during the time Belshazzar was supposed to have been reigning. However, in a cuneiform inscription on a clay tablet now known as the Nabonidus Chronicle which is today housed in the British Museum in London, we are told that Nabonidus suffered from a brief illness. During his time away from Babylon, his son Belsharusur (Belshazzar of Daniel 5) reigned in his stead. This one archaeological find vindicated the book of Daniel and established Belshazzar as the crown prince of Babylon. From the Yale collection of Babylonian texts we find statements such as, “In a dream, I saw the great star, Venus, Sirius, the moon and the sun and I shall now study this constellation with regard to a favorable interpretation for my Lord Nabonidus, King of Babylon, as well as to a favorable interpretation for my Lord Belshazzar, the crown prince.” (ANET, Prichard, page 310) From these ancient documents we learn about the beliefs and customs of the people of Belshazzar’s day which in turn help us to understand and interpret passages of scripture like the one in Isaiah 14:12. Again, it is a reference to the existing cosmology of Babylon in Belshazzar’s day and is a specific reference to the planet Venus that was known as the morning star.
Next we need to examine the way Isaiah 14:12 was translated into the Greek Septuagint text which reads, “How are you fallen from heaven heosphoros?” i.e., the shining one, son of the morning again a reference to the planet Venus. In the Liddell and Scott Greek~English Lexicon page 752, heosphoros is listed as the bringer of morn or the morning star.
And now, a little bit of history…First, it is important to mention that in the 3rd Century BCE Pharaoh Ptolemy Philadelphus of Egypt, (285-247 BCE) commissioned a Greek translation of the Hebrew scriptures for his own library. Traditionally, some 70 Jewish scholars performed the work and their translation became known as the Septuagint or LXX which are the Roman numerals for 70.
In the 4th Century CE, a man by the name Eusebius Sophronius Hieronymus, also known as Jerome, was born (340-419 CE). In the summer of 388, he moved from Rome to Bethlehem where he spent the remainder of his life. Due to the prominent rise of the Latin language, Pope Damasus suggested to Jerome, who was very knowledgeable in Latin and Greek but less so in Hebrew, that he start his own translation project. Jerome completed his work in the year 405 CE and it is still known to this day as the Latin Vulgate and is the official Latin Bible of the Roman Catholic Church.
It is safe to assume that Jerome had several texts available to him for comparison and undoubtedly used some texts that we do not have today, making it impossible to say for certain where he got all his ideas. One translation found in Jerome has caused much difficulty and misunderstanding, namely, his translation of Isaiah 14:12.
As we mentioned earlier, in the Hebrew text it reads “ech nafalta meshamim helel ben shachar”: “How art thou fallen from heaven, bright shining one, son of the morning!” Jerome in his translation has, “How are you fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning?” This is the first time that this word, Lucifer, appears in the biblical text. Jerome’s use of the word Lucifer has led to the development in Christian circles to the concept of Lucifer as the embodiment of the evil one i.e., Satan or the Devil. This usage then completely changes the meaning of Isaiah 14:12 because 14:13-14 goes on to say “How art thou cut down to the ground which didst weaken the nations! For thou hadst said in thine heart I will ascend into heaven I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation in the sides of the North: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds: I will be like the Most High.” The question now becomes where did Jerome get the idea of translating helel ben shachar or heosphoros to Lucifer when the passage is a specific reference to the planet Venus and Babylon?. The answer is that Jerome did not strictly translate the Hebrew helel ben shachar nor does it appear that he translated the Greek LXX heosphoros. It seems rather that he translated as though the original Greek word had been lukophos meaning morning twilight. By following the trail of Greek etymology we see that luekeios is an epithet for Apollo and Pan. The word Lukay, not only means morning twilight, but is an epithet for the Greek gods Apollo and Pan and also means the god of light. (Liddell and Scott page 1064.)
Why would Jerome have strayed from heosphoros? Perhaps Jerome’s selection was influenced by the teachings of Tertullian (155-240 CE) and Origen (184-253 CE) who had already begun reading Satan into Isaiah 14 as opposed to the King of Babylon. Certainly, his knowledge of Panius at Caesarea Philippi could have influenced him since Pan was worshipped there. Since the discovery of the mask at Hippos, we are able to recognize the possibility of an even greater extent of worship of Pan throughout the GrecoRoman world than had been previously thought. I think it is interesting that we can’t altogether fault Jerome, especially because he was working on his translation while all these influences were occurring at the same time.
As a result of Jerome’s translation, the images of Pan and the Devil were morphed together and today the Devil is often depicted as Lucifer and his appearance is similar to the Greek god Pan. The church historian Philip Schaff on pages 972-975 of History of the Christian Church writes that “Jerome could have done better.” “The defects are many and various and he sometimes let false translations stand when they seemed harmless.” Schaff continues, “From the present stage of biblical philology and exegesis, the Vulgate can be charged with innumerable false inaccuracies, inconsistencies, and arbitrary dealing, in particulars.” It is important to note that the Bible includes no character named Lucifer. Isaiah had never heard of such a being, nor had the apostles of Jesus’ day. Lucifer as a manifestation of the Devil was a later innovation. Isaiah 14 was not speaking about the Devil or Lucifer; it is a prophecy against Belshazzar, who at that time was serving as the King of Babylon.
This is all the more important when we understand that in Hebrew there is no such concept of Lucifer as being the embodiment of evil i.e., the Devil or Satan, such as we find in English. As a matter of fact in the Encyclopedia Judaica Volume 14 page 902 under the entry for Satan opens with the statement, “Satan is not a proper name referring to a particular being and a demonic one who is the antagonist or rival of God. In its original application in fact, it is a common noun meaning an adversary who opposes and obstructs. It is applied to human adversaries and its related verb is used of prosecution in a law court and the role of an antagonist in general…” Nowhere is hasatan, in any sense, a rival of God. With few exceptions Satan appears merely as the impersonal force of evil.
In Hebrew thought, Satan is the personification of wickedness. A significant remark is: “Satan, the yetzer harah, and the angel of death are all one” (Talmud Baba Batra 16a). It indicates that the prompting to evil is rather a force within an individual rather than an influence from without. In Hebrew thought, the yetzer harah stands in direct contrast to the yetzer hatov, the good impulse. The belief is that in every human being there are two urges, one to evil and the other to goodness. This idea figures prominently in the ethics of the Rabbis. The character of a person, it was thought, is determined by which of the two impulses is dominant. The good impulse controls the righteous and the evil impulse controls the wicked. Genesis Chapter 3 deals with the origin of evil in the world and the concept of evil was strongly associated with that of the serpent. However, in order to make it quite clear that we have here only a symbol, the passage stressed that the serpent belonged to the category of the beasts of the field that the Lord God had made i.e., created by God. In Genesis 3 the special characteristic attributed to the serpent is cunning. Umberto Cassuto, late Professor of Bible at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, states on pages 142-143 of his Commentary on Genesis 1, “In the ultimate analysis, we have here an allegorical allusion to the craftiness to be found in man himself.” In other words, Cassuto continues, the “duologue between the serpent and the woman is actually, in a manner of speaking, a duologue that took place in the woman’s mind, between her wiliness and her innocence, clothed in the garb of a parable.” Cassuto continues, “by interpreting the text in this way, we can understand why the serpent is said to think and speak; in reality it is not he who thinks and speaks but the woman does so in her heart. Thus we need not wonder at the serpent’s knowledge of the prohibition; it is the woman who is aware of it.”
I know all of this may be very upsetting and disconcerting to some of you but keep in mind that in the first four centuries before Jesus, and the first four centuries after Jesus, paganism and idolatry were rampant in the world. Much of what we read of the ancient Greek and Roman worlds before, during, and after the time of Jesus centered on paganism in one form or another. Their gods, their religious practices, and much in the biblical text relates to that subject. After the time of Jesus, many of these pagan ideas or concepts were absorbed into the postbiblical world, and we have a host of pagan ideas, practices, and cults that ultimately led to the development of what became the organized religious system of the third and fourth centuries of the present era with its host of devils, demons, and angels.
An indication of the widespread focus upon pagan religious systems and their deities is recorded for us in the Biblical Archaeological Review September/October 2014 on page 30, where a beautiful mosaic depicting Pan, as well as other images from Greek mythology, was found on the floor of a chapel in Jerusalem dating to the 6th century CE.
Zen Radovan, biblelandpictures.com
In our treatment of the subject of Lucifer, the Devil, and Satan this quite naturally raises questions about various passages in the New Testament and about practices by many religious leaders and/or denominations relative to the subject of devils and demons. Some will question, “Well, are you saying that there is no such thing as devils and/or demons or evil in the world?” And the answer to that question is, “No, there is indeed evil in the world but according to Hebrew or Jewish thought on the subject, evil stems from man himself.” As mentioned earlier, it is the yetzer harah, or the evil inclination, that is a force within man himself. Questions then naturally arise about all of the passages in the New Testament that speak of demons and the casting out of demons such as in Matthew 8:16: “when evening was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with his word, and he healed all that were sick…” Or, Matthew 10:78 as Jesus commissioned his disciples to “go, preach, saying the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely you have received, freely give.” Or Matthew 8:28 when two men possessed with devils speak to Jesus and the devils ask that they be cast into a herd of swine. Jesus grants the request and permits them to enter the herd which then ran down a steep hill and drowned in the sea. Now if the Jews did not believe in a physical/spiritual being that stood juxtapositioned to God, what is occurring in these and many other passages where Jesus is confronting demons and/or devils and casting them out? We need to stop for a moment and give pause. We must remember that the New Testament was written almost 2000 years ago and addressed the audience of that time. Also we must keep in mind that it has only been in recent times, in the last 150 years or so, that medical science has identified and named certain diseases and/or infirmities as well as treatments for them.
Let’s consider the story of the father who brought his son to Jesus and said that he had a spirit that tore him and caused him to foam at the mouth and often cast him into the fire. Jesus rebuked the foul spirit and the boy was healed and made whole. Up until relatively recent times medical science had not progressed to the point where epilepsy was identified as such, and what is true of epilepsy is also true of many other ailments and/or afflictions, such as multiple personality disorder and a myriad of other mental conditions. In careful reading of the New Testament we see that many conditions that were attributed to a devil or a demon were relieved through some form or type of healing. In our modern world, remedies or methods for healing exist for various diseases and ailments that didn’t have names centuries ago. In the New Testament James 5:14-15, Jesus issued a specific directive: “Is any sick among you? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: And the prayer of faith will save the sick…” It is much more biblically correct to speak of healing and the efficacy of prayer rather than to focus on devils and demons. It has been my observation that a congregation, individual, or group of individuals that focus their attention on devils and demons are in error in many other ways as well.
Our brief examination on this subject is indicative of the importance of study and research and emphasizes the motto we have for Bible Scholars’ ‘Question the answers.’ Perhaps there is a greater need for students of the Bible to devote more of their time to investigation and analysis to fulfill the admonition of the apostle Paul when he says in Timothy 2:15, “Study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
Topical Index: Isaiah 14:12, Matthew 16:13, Satan, Pan, Roy Blizzard
OY VEY. I fear that thou hast opened a can of worms…uhh snakes. Interesting that you should post an article about sh*t hole countries and then post an article the same day opening a sh*t storm. Any connection? I trust you are ready for the negative reactions of the Benny Hinns in our midst to whom everything, behind every bush is a demon. I personally believe that behind every bush is a Benny Hinn.
The Book of Revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave Him to show His servants–things which must shortly take place–has frequent references to Satan, the Devil, demons, that great Dragon: Rev 2:9-13; Rev 12:9; Rev 16:13-14; Rev 18:2; Rev 20:2,7.10.
These don’t appear to be a figment of man’s imagination. God Himself appears to have an opinion about this evil force, a warning to man, and a plan to deal with it. What do you think?
Well this is a deep and perplexing topic. I am prone to lean toward the work of Watchman Nee on this subject. He having grown in a markedly pagan panthistic society has bit more balanced perspective. “The latent power of the soul” His book on the workings of the adversaries realm suggests that the spirtual power latent in the yezter harah is what ha satan is after. He uses mens “soul power” against men. I have heard, seen and experianced suffcently the power and presence of this force to not be quick to discredit or dismiss the adversaries realm so easily as the Rabbis seem to have. The best way for an enamy to hide in one’s midst is to convince those in the room he is not an enamy at all or lacks any power to be a threat. It is the intelectual and religious that most frequently dismiss the realm of the spirtual. It does however exist, like it or not. As Dylan so simply put it, ” your going to serve somebody it may be the Devil or it may be the Lord, but you are going to serve somebody “. Whom we chose to serve largely dictates what we do and how we do it.
I think I would ask for a more balanced view. We can take anything and turn it to our own paradigm. In the West (excluding the Benny Hinn paradigm, perhaps) we just don’t have the same focus as, say, Haiti or other places where evil is worshiped as a god. Therefore, this article is naturally going to sound perfectly ‘reasonable’ (matches our paradigm).
What I would like to see is the viewpoint of someone who has dealt with people directly who suffer from demonic diseases. Satanic worship is exploding in this country, and ritual satanic abuse is a real phenomenon. (Who has visited a church of Satan?) This article has so little to offer these classes of sufferers beyond telling them it is all in their head. Well, that is what autoimmune sufferers got told for a long time, too, and it helped them just about as much.
Setting the Benny Hinns of the world aside for a moment (Michael Stanley, you are just too funny) the Biblical accounts of demonic possession are vivid and numerous. Are you telling me that it was just all in Yeshua’s head (and the apostles’ heads, too)? I could not see that this article addresses the accounts of their experiences (nor how they chose to portray those experiences).
Does belief in something make it real? If I believe in voodoo, will it work with me? The Jews of the day believed in demons; obviously. Was that also just all in their heads? We have not gotten anywhere near a real discussion yet! I don’t need to be rocked to sleep with certainty; I need to have real answers for the tormented people around me.
I’m hesitant to advance on line that I have been involved in deliverance ministries off and on for years. I do not agree with the Rabbi’s view that evil does not exist outside the heart of men, nor that Ha Satan is a non entity without personality or willful intentions. The scriptures clearly suggest otherwise. If not the old certainly in the new testament. Yeshua had a very clear confrontation, and trial with a entity, a personality in the wilderness just before his baptism by John. Furthermore the interpretation of Jeremiah 17:9 that the heart of man is “wicked” is dubious. I have heard it rendered “weak” not “wicked”. A very big difference. This is a foundational issue and perhaps a philosophical paradigm one that needs Skips word craft if you where to ask me. Just where did evil come from? And how are we humans influenced by it?
wasn’t the confrontation in the wilderness AFTER Yeshua’s baptism though?
Matthew, Mark and Luke, seem pretty straight forward stating Jesus went into the wilderness after His baptism, however, John’s account may seem to contradict the other three, but, when read carefully I do not believe there is a conflict.
In John’s gospel, John (the Baptist) is in the Jordan baptizing and the Pharisees, verse 25, are questioning him. The next day, verse 29, Jesus appears at the Jordan and John says, Behold the Lamb of God. The next day, verse 35, Jesus again shows up and calls his first disciples. And by the third day, He is in Cana starting His ministry, and not in the wilderness.
The problem arises if we assume John baptizes Jesus at verse 29, but verse 32 is in the past tense. Literal Version, “I have seen the Spirit coming down as a dove”. This must have happened at least 40 days in the past.
The question then is, why did young John (the Evangelist), report it in this manner? It tells us that Jesus was at the Jordan at least three times, and it was on the last visit that He met Andrew and young John. It tells us they were disciples of John the Baptist, but on that day they left him to follow Jesus. Young John is retelling his personal first encounter, which happened after our Lord’s temptation.
Daniel, can you make this simpler, please? Are you agreeing or disagreeing that the confrontation in the wilderness was after Yeshua’s baptism?
Gail, sorry to over explain it.
All four gospels agree His Temptation was after His baptism.
Matthew, Mark and Luke describe the events in time order. His baptism occurred before the Temptation. But John describes His baptism out of time order. When he speaks of it, it was an event in the past. (Even though Jesus was again currently down at the Jordan, He was not getting baptized.)
Hi Laurita, let’s take a trip and visit some of these satanic places. I am willing if you are. I live in the South and I believe you do too. Maybe we could do a documentary. I am willing if you are. I guess my problem with “Satanic” is how misleading it is in our world today. I saw two different women who were suffering from psychosis. I can see where some people would label this as satanic or demon possession.
But Marsha, we cannot use sad, psychotic people as ‘proof’ Satan is not real any more than we can use them to ‘prove’ that he is. Precious people in my life practice Kundalini, go to seances that conjure the dead, invite spirits not of God to work through them. Is this all ‘just in their heads’? Some other kind of psychosis? They see auras around people, eyes everywhere: they sit in a corner and tell you your every heart beat. They bend forks with the touch of a finger move objects around by means of thought and go into trances. Is this also all just in their heads? What I described above is what I have seen done in front of me. I used to just freak out. Can you do this stuff? What about people who levitate? Is that all just in their heads?
I agree with you that mental illness is a sad condition of mind: it is not “devil possession” – you and I stand together on that one – but I believe there are powers from beyond us that can work through us, too, that can APPEAR to have the same results. In the process, we can lose our sanity. I have read medical literature that suggests that all psychoses have fear and lack of trust as a foundation. I have nothing but pity for all mentally ill people, as they are victims, but the question can then be: victims of what? Just themselves? I refuse to believe that because that is REALLY blaming the victim!
We know that trauma is a huge precursor to mental illness, but trauma can introduce fearful power into people’s lives that was not there before that fear grips them. This power OVER them can motivate them to seek relief in some strange places; particularly the occult. For example, I know for a fact that the people in my life that mess with the occult are – 100% of them – trauma victims that have ended up with “trust issues” as a result (Yep, put me on that list, too). But I have seen that ALL sin is also about fear and “trust issues”. To me, these are eerily similar end results, even with differing causes.
I have seen people lose their sanity: I have seen them lose their minds for many different choices or reasons (I have been around some really crazy people) but I have realized that SOMETIMES (not every time) it can be because they – or even others in their lives that have made evil choices that impacted them – have been messing with things not of God that have opened the door to compelling powers of fear. I do not believe that those powers are all ‘just in their heads’. I am a believer that evil, even though it exists in us, does not ORIGINATE (“original sin”) with us. I believe that the yetzer hara is merely incomplete without God: not defective. The flesh is incomplete without another spirit to be in agreement with. That spiritual completion, by design, comes from beyond us, but the Holy Spirit is definitely NOT the only spirit out there that wants to ‘complete’ us: adulterate with us. We are warned in many places, OT and NT, not to cohabit with powers not of God.
I believe even the evil of psychosis (which is raw fear) is driven by something from beyond us that can spiritually infect us with itself – with unhealthy fear not of God (there are healthy fears, of course). Demon possession? Well, maybe demon (fear) driven. I remember very well what that feels like. It feels like slavery to fear to me. You can call it what you want to.
No doubt trauma is behind a lot of illness, not just mental. This is popular right now but it ignores brain science. I don’t believe it is all about trauma. That has not been my family’s experience. But as to levitation and moving spoons. How is that evil? Jesus and Paul were able to touch people and heal. Why can’t we as believers do that today? Not enough faith?
From what I can understand (someone please correct me), all mental illness has links with imbalances (lack of homeostasis) elsewhere in the body as well as the spirit. If fact, we could define it AS an imbalance that expresses simultaneously in thought, spirit (beliefs), as well as in biology, such as neurochemical and microbiome imbalance. Correct the imbalance and you have corrected the illness in all dimensions: but if you don’t address the underlying source of that imbalance, you are just going to be chasing symptoms (which is all the world can do because it has no way to achieve lasting peace, or, homeostasis). (Google Depression, Anxiety and Dementia Secrets Episode One, which is a new series that starts tomorrow, to check out what I am trying to say above.)
The RCC believes that all miracles are of God. It sounds like you might agree. Do you?
I would like for you or anyone else to show me these things you speak of so I can determine for myself what this is. I will meet you and you can take me to some of these places. You as well as others say you have seen these satanic and occult like things and your interpretation of the events are that they are “Satanic”. I have been in some “dark” places, but I never experienced demonic or satanic activity. Just people doing degrading things to themselves and others. I have seen people reach a point where they were lifeless in that they had absolutely no regard for another human being. But that was not demonic.
As for mental illnesses, I have studied and would share some of this research with you if interested. I see mental illness as a brain illness and maybe it has something to do with the gut. Current research. But my OCD that I have had as a child and that at least three generations experienced is I believe connected to a brain misfiring or bad circuitry. Anxiety may have started it, but there is no proof of that either, but it is not what is going on now.
“Nowhere is hasatan, in any sense, a rival of God. With few exceptions Satan appears merely as the impersonal force of evil.”
My dumb question: What about the Book of Job, most especially, chapters 1-2?
Skip, a word of encouragement for courage to tackle this topic. I asked a dear rabbi friend whose entire family was wiped out in the holocaust if there was another presence in the room when the Nazis invented the Final Solution. He said no, then went on to add that the heart of man is despicably wicked and capable alone of such profound evil. Over the years I have come to a position that agrees with that outlined above by Skip. Not popular with family and friends who blame Satan and devils for every misfortune they encounter, even decisions they themselves freely made that put them squarely in a swamp.
A study of the miracles of Jesus will reveal that the demons were mentioned in Galilee, whereas in Judea Jesus simply healed the blind man or crippled man. I have read that there was lack of agreement among Jewish authorities in the northern Galilee which was close to Greek Decapolis paganism with demons (both good and bad) as opposed to Jerusalem. Even there Greek religion had an enormous impact. For Craig, is it possible that the book of Job is powerful allegory? I ask that simply because so many innocent people die in the contest… many servants, all his children etc. While that works powerfully in a story, it troubles me that God would use such collateral destruction of human life to prove a point about Job’s faith. Just asking…
What are we to make of the account of the Seven Sons of Sceva (Acts 19:13-16)? And, what of Yeshua’s words in Matthew 12:43-45?
Roy Blizzard goes to great lengths to make his points.
And they are provocative.
He does, however, use terms like “perhaps” and “a possibility”
in his findings.
I see no such words In Isaiah’s account.
What is one to think?
If you go with the premise that what we consider biblical Hebrew today is totally pure and unbiased than rabbinic literature does follow this thought. Why did God confuse the language with nimrod and Babylon. Is he trying to say that once man thinks they know the true language and everyone uses it the language itself becomes truth. I have no problem with using hebrew,Greek or Aramaic in my studies and i do not think what we call hebrew is pure.All languages have a bias in interpreting scripture. I am sure when Yahoshua returns he will teach us what language to use and I bet we will be dumb founded that we were so certain we knew.
And I thought I was crazy to consider Yeshua comment to Peter… Go behind me Satan as you think the will of man…
I always argued that the devil is man and concepts of man. As is the result of insight or knowledge. The tree of good and evil being eaten from…
As is the redemption is from manmade things to God’s creation and intent…
Now it seems I may have it partially right.
My will (Satan) versus God’s will Christ. When I opt for Christ Yeshua is manifested when I opt for Satan my desires are manifested…
The view put forth here is essentially that within man is the power of evil and the power of good. This is not inconsistent with the dualism inherent in the various strains of Gnosticism, New Age-ism, Lurianic Kabbalah, etc. The commonality is that one has the power to suppress the evil (or escape it), by focusing on the good.
Craig: for me much of the issue comes down to culpability. I am amazed to watch normally rational people make stupid decisions then blame the Devil for their subsequent misfortune. The Devil stole my joy, tripped me up etc. I have come to the conclusion we will stand in the judgment dock with no one to blame but our own selfishness and headstrong will. Just my thoughts.
I agree that the devil does not (God, either, for that matter) choose for us; I think the matter comes down to who is empowering those choices. Me? Really? Neither kingdom can force choice, but if I am the sum total of the evil kingdom, then the reign of self is NOT an illusion; it is truth: which is to say we have pitted ourselves directly against heaven, in which case there are no possibilities of choosing right, left. In which case, why are we still being given more chances? These are SERIOUS problems.
I think the Bible teaches that we have been deceived and accused, too – that we have an enemy whom Yeshua came to vanquish. I don’t think He came to vanquish US, which we would have to believe if in fact there is no Adversary. Did we tempt Yeshua in the wilderness? Or was that Him hallucinating all by Himself? See the problems we get into?
HSB,
I think those are separate issues. Are you suggesting Yeshua’s temptations in the wilderness were all in His head? Or? And what is Ephesians 6:10-18 all about? Who are these “rulers”, “powers”, and “forces of evil in the heavenly realms”? Who did Michael do battle with in Rev 12:7-17?
I agree Craig. I don’t think it is possible to make metaphors and allegories out of all the detailed references to specific, corrupt personalities in the spiritual realm.
Craig here is my take on your questions. First regarding the wilderness I believe there was a real contest between Yeshua and his own human flesh. He already knew that Messiah not Satan would have all the kingdoms of the world. Where in the Scriptures does it ever say all these things belonged to Satan anyway, unless one invents the idea that at the fall everything somehow ended up in possession of the Devil. If one studies the three temptations I believe one finds that they represent a short cut to personal well being, rulership and popularity. All these are intended for Messiah. But in order for him to achieve these things he will first die an ugly death, naked on a cross, powerless and alone. Yeshua succeeded in going through the abyss in order to let Father promote him to the right hand of glory. Thus he did not grasp at what he was heir to! So the adversary Satan he confronted was IMHO his own flesh desire to go straight for the crown and avoid the cross. Interesting to me that the Lord’s Prayer asks that we not be led into temptation yet clearly in the wilderness experience Yeshua was there lead by the Holy Spirit of God.
Craig, regarding the passage in Ephesians 6 about the armor of God, I note that Paul did not invent these parts, they are mentioned in Isaiah for example is 59:17. So if we read Isaiah for context we find in the next verse 18 the following: wrath to his adversaries, recompense to his enemies. My NAS footnote indicates God will judge the nations but He must also punish wicked Israelites… not a mention of the Devil. Why? Because the nations are the opposition, ha Satan diablos etc. Same thing in Zechariah’s vision of Joshua the priest with ha Satan standing beside him. The opposition in reality were the local authorities who opposed the rebuilding efforts of the Jews returned from Babylon. Finally, I happen to think that Revelation is an allegorical work. It is referred to as a vision. So not surprising that immediately after the passage of Rev 12:7-17 we find in chapter 13 reference to a beast with seven heads and ten horns. I don,t think that is literal either.
In conclusion I have come to believe that we have met the enemy and it is…. us! Our flesh must be crucified with Messiah or it will do us in. James attributes our problems to our own lusts producing sin then death. Later in chapter four he does say to resist the devil and he will flee from you. The context is provided in verse six… God is opposed to the proud but gives grace to the humble. The ha Satan here is our own pride and arrogance that must be resisted. Just my thoughts. More later if you care to read it.
Who is “god of this world” (2 Cor 4:4)? Who is “prince of this world” (John 12:31)? Who is “the prince of the power of the air” (Eph 2:2)? John the Gospel writer is at pains to say the world is presently in darkness, yet Messiah is the Light, with belief in Him bringing one to “the light”.
Satan knew who Yeshua was, and I’m sure Yeshua knew, as well. Satan prefaced his first statement, “If you are the Son of God…”.
Craig a bit of exegesis is needed here. For he who overcomes the world is saved by faith. The world is everything we can think of and introduce into reality as trends or fashions. God has no desire or need for these. The Jones and Jones chasers do… Our beastly thoughts and lifestyles are things we first need to overcome before we can cut off the Jones flight.
Just my 2 cents reflective thoughts. No biblical foundation…
I like the way you phrased that, especially the “Jones flight”. 🙂
Craig, I wasn’t going to point that out because it is so obvious.
I have wanted to ask sometimes if at the end of the day, when we finish deconstructing the unique message of the Bible and are left with merely agreement with what the rest of the planet wants to believe, what do we have left to help them with?
Skip has gone to great pains to point out before that the yetzer hara is not evil: it is what we choose about our desires that causes either evil or good (the two kingdoms) to be realized in us. Has this stance changed?
The biggest epiphany for me was when I really got it that fear was NOT me; fear could go and I could stay. That was my day of deliverance from 38 years of Chronic Fatigue. Up until then I just thought I was generating the fear; I had no idea that there was a spiritual kingdom I was in agreement with that I could fall out of agreement with. While I was still looking at 2Tim. 1:7 (which taught me that fear was not only not ‘me’: it was not from heaven, either, which meant that I didn’t have to put up with it) I also noticed the good stuff – “power, love and a sound mind” – were likewise not generated by me: they, in fact, are gifts of God. That took the rest of the load off.
The bad stuff (fear, guilt and shame) is NOT me – the me I was created to be – but neither is it up to me to generate the good stuff. This verse teaches that both classes of spiritual realities come from beyond us and we can agree to have the fruits of either the one kingdom or the other expressed through us. That realization returned the power of choice back to me that I had lost when I believed the above was just ‘all up to me'(which I saw was self idolatry in that I thought I was actually generating ‘good’ and ‘bad’). That was the day I was healed. Not a coincidence.
Miss Laurita,
Mucho thanks for some personal insights, and it is indeed about what we choose and agree to that has huge and sometimes everlasting consequences for us. Demonic attack and demonic possession are two different things, and both can exhaust a person physically as well as spiritually. There are way too many instances and mentions of demonic activity in scripture to summarily deny the existence of these beings based on this one example. I have seen and can tell you that there is evidence of such. It’s no coincidence that there are many ministries out there that specialize in deliverance (exorcism if you will). I have heard of Mr Blizzard before and he’s made his bones so to speak. I wonder if he’s familiar with the works of Malachi Martin? I’ve read some of Martin’s books but not his treatise on exorcism which I’ve heard comes with a caveat. Elaine Pagels has also written on this.
From what I understand, CFS can be debilitating. Do you have any idea of how you may have ‘acquired’ it? Please ignore if you’d rather not answer. Not suggesting this of you, but I know that a Kundalini awakening has been known, in some people, to bring about CFS.
Unrelated here, but you may have missed a comment I made on the Theological Suicide post (comment January 25, 2018 5:47 pm), in which I traced YHWH as it’s translated into the LXX of Isaiah 39-40. My goal was to take a lengthier section of Scripture, as opposed to merely one or two verses, in order to see if there’s a system involved in the translations of “LORD” and “God”. I purposely proffered no analysis, just provided the raw data from which others may draw their own conclusions.
I did see that post, and appreciated it, although I am not technical enough, language-wise, to gain the full implication.
It would not surprise me in regards to Kundalini and CFS as I currently have a precious person who has gone lethargic at the same point they got serious about Kundalini. I will apply that thought. Thank you!
As regarding myself, I had what you would call a trauma event as a child and woke up the very next morning in full blown CFS. I would also consider Kundalini – as the sin that it is – a trauma event, too, as sin always has that effect, I am convinced, whether it be your sin or the sin another ‘chose’ for you as abusing their authority over you. CFS can have a wide range of causes (as well as multiple causes, too). Some of those causes can be environmental, but it requires something that wipes out or seriously degrades the immune system, which is our protection system.
The corollaries between the spiritual and natural world are profound, and I have suspected that there may only be apparent differences between them. We may, indeed, be called to holiness in all our ways because there may, indeed, not be a true difference between any of those ways. The choices we make as regarding the natural world may be every bit as moral as the seemingly more ‘spiritual’ ones. That doughnut I choose to eat (or not) may just have eternal implications!
Since I referenced the dangers of Kundalini awakening in an article I wrote a few years ago, I have the link regarding this handy; note that this comes from an advocate who yet warns of the dangers!
mudrashram dot com/how-to-deal-with-kundalini-emergencies-2/
Since I enjoy all kinds of music, in that very same article I noted that pianist/composer Keith Jarrett had one of his music publishing companies named “Kundalini” in the 1970s. Jarrett was also a practitioner of Gurdjieff’s “Fourth Way” (the title to one of Jarrett’s records is Fort Yahuw, which seems to be an anagram of Fourth Way), and the guru employed Kundalini as a method of enlightenment. In the late ‘90s, Jarrett was diagnosed with CFS. I wonder if there’s a connection.
Good wonder.
The comments were over on the “Conversation and Identity” post:
skipmoen dot com/2018/01/conversation-and-identity/
Thank you so much! LOVE the edit button!
You’re welcome. I recall briefly reading/skimming the comments and found them by doing a specific search. The edit button IS great!
Craig, I had a personal music question. If you want, you could email me about it at lauritahayes at gmail.
I sent you an email.
Very interesting. I used to work in a small yet world renown nightclub in downtown Boston during the mid-70’s where I watched and listened to Keith Jarrett, along with Miles Davis, Bob Marley, Al Jarreau, Bill Evans, Betty Carter, Sonny Rollings, and many many others I expect you have listened to through the years. I may have otherwise, also, been exposed to Kundalini “stuff” in “Charismatic” Christianity, possibly with some of the physiological effects of it but never those of CFS. I expect if it was Kundalini, the protection, deliverance, cleansing, and/or healing, of which I have evidence, was the affects of the greater power of the Ruach ha-Kodesh I have continued to receive from Yeshua as I have also continued to seek to know, receive from, and follow Him above all others and ways. Nothing has power over anyone unless we believe it does and submit to it, but we can’t just think our way out of it. We must pray and obey our way out of it, by the power and help of the Ruach ha-Kodesh in the name of Yeshua ha-Mashiach to the esteem of YHVH. He is “able to do far beyond all that we ask or imagine”.
I’m glad you recognize the possibility of being exposed to Kundalini in some “charismatic” streams in Christianity. I’ve been convinced of that for some time. The parallels between some of the effects between the two (“charismatic” manifestations and Kundalini practitioner manifestations) are striking. If you didn’t check out the link I referenced, it may be worth your while to do so, in order to see all the various ways Kundalini arousal can affect a person.
I hope you didn’t understand me to be suggesting that merely listening to Jarrett, e.g., can potentially expose one to Kundalini.
Not to get too far off topic, I’m envious that you got to listen to such greats, but especially Miles during his electric period. During your time at that club did you see the Davis band that included guitarist Pete Cosey (between ’73 and ’75)? At least there are a few YouTube videos of this period.
Didn’t assume that, one way or the other.
I worked at Paul’s Mall and the Jazz Workshop, two venues (rooms) under the ownership of two men (Jewish, I think) and management, in the same subterranean night club location on Boylston Street across from the Prudential Center, from 1975 to 1977. I was door cashier, room manager, and bartender. I’m not sure exactly when Miles Davis and his band was there or if Peter Cosey was in his band at that time. I was room manager the night Miles Davis performed and had to go into the small, crowded, dimly lit, and smokey “green room” to notify him that it was time for him to go on stage (had I to do the same when Bob Marley was performing there, also). It was a very up close and personal experience and, back then, it was quite an intense and sort of surrealistic moment. His voice was his classic quiet, low pitched, and whispery, raspy sounding voice. I can see and hear it even now. Unforgettable!
Davis was certainly an imposing figure. To return at least tangentially to the topic of this post, Miles was known as “the prince of darkness”—a term used for Satan (Lucifer) in Milton’s Paradise Lost. I’m not sure exactly when he received this moniker, but there’s a track with this title, penned by band member Wayne Shorter, on the 1967 Davis record Sorcerer (Cicely Tyson on front cover, Davis’ then-girlfriend) and in Ralph Gleason’s liner notes on the jacket he attributes the term to Miles. “The Sorcerer” was another track on the record, and Gleason also attributes this to Davis.
Yah. Interesting. I was actually thinking there might be some unintended tie-in with the topic of this post. Haha. He was a mystical and brooding iconic figure whose dark side might have been more significantly attributable to being a heroine addict for some time versus his first music teacher who rapped his knuckles when he didn’t play as instructed. An imposing figure for reasons quite other than his mere physical stature of approximately 5 1/2′ and 140 lbs..
I don’t know Greek, so correct me if I am wrong, but I have gleaned this from the internet.
“Satan”, “Lord” and “Christ”, all adjectives, are all nouns when accompanied with the Greek article. Speaking grammatically, if one denies the existence of a tangible Satan, one must also deny the existence of a tangible “Lord” and a tangible “Christ”. One cannot accept the existence of ὁ κύριος and ὁ χριστός as proper nouns in Greek and then deny the existence of ὁ σατανᾶς without contradicting oneself!
Without the article the Hebrew term rendered Satan has the general meaning of any adversary; physically, politically, or spiritual etc. Its first appearance is to the angel that stood in the road to RESIST Balaam as he set out with the objective of cursing the Israelites. (Nu 22:22, 32). In other instances, it refers to individuals as resistors of other men. (1Sa 29:4; 2 Sa 19:21, 22; 1 Ki 5:4; 11:14, 23, 25).
But with the article, “the Adversary”, it becomes the proper name of a superhuman being. It first occurs in Zec 3:1, where with the article it indicates its application to a definite person. Thus, it becomes a proper noun, and is used with increasing frequency (I Ch 21:1; Job 1:6f., Zec 3:1,2 etc.;
In the Greek Scriptures the word ‘sa-ta-nas’ applies to Satan the Devil in nearly all of its occurrences and is usually accompanied by the definite article, ho. Mt 4:10; Jn 13:27; Ac 5:3; I Co 5:5; Rev 2:9, etc. In Greek, the article (there is no indefinite article) denotes the noun as a definite or particular in some sense, and the absence of the article indicates the noun as either indefinite or qualitative. There are exceptions and qualifying circumstances to these rules, but these are the simplest and most common uses of the article.
.
I agree that a “satan” is not necessarily a spiritual being. Most of the time he may be just another human, while sometimes he is a spirit, but he is never imaginary.
At the risk of citing the obvious, other verses and problems
Gen 3:15 and enmity I put between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; he doth bruise thee—the head, and thou dost bruise him—the heel.’
If there is no Satan, then there is no “seed of the serpent”. And if there was no “seed of the serpent” to bruise the “seed of the woman”, there is no salvation.
Ro 16:20 and the God of the peace shall bruise the Adversary under your feet quickly; the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen!
Eph 6:12 because we have not the wrestling with blood and flesh, but with the principalities, with the authorities, with the world-rulers of the darkness of this age, with the spiritual things of the evil in the heavenly places;
Luke 10:18 “And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.”
Rev 12:7-9 And there came war in the heaven; Michael and his messengers did war against the dragon, and the dragon did war, and his messengers,
and they did not prevail, nor was their place found any more in the heaven;
and the great dragon was cast forth—the old serpent, who is called ‘Devil,’ and ‘the Adversary,’ who is leading astray the whole world—he was cast forth to the earth, and his messengers were cast forth with him.
These adversaries may be human but they are not imaginary.
1Co 5:5 to deliver up such a one to the Adversary for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1Ti 1:20 of whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I did deliver to the Adversary, that they might be instructed not to speak evil.
So, let me get this straight, according to this article, the 47 times in scripture that Satan is mentioned, or the 32 times the Devil is mentioned, is to be written off as a myth, allegory, or our imagination? And of course, we’d have to toss out the text that says the dragon and the ancient serpent, are the devil and Satan as well.
No, there’s just far too much in the text that speaks of a very real being, “The Adversary”, to buy into the notion that it’s all in our head, metaphorical or allegory.
Just because we don’t “understand it” or “get it”, doesn’t mean scripture is pulling our leg or that it isn’t true.
Its so much easier to dismiss the devil than to take responsibility for advancing his agenda…Moses said “today I set before you life and death…the blessing or the curse…choose life.” Is perhaps “the curse” metaphorically a doorway into another kingdom?
Jonathan Sacks says; “The Israelites were categorically forbidden to worship such a force (Satan or Samael). Indeed, the belief that there are powers at work in the universe distinct from, or even hostile to, God is incompatible with Judaic monotheism. Nonetheless, some sages did believe that there were negative forces that were part of the heavenly retinue, like Satan, who brought accusations against humans or tempted them into sin.” Leviticus: The Book of Holiness.
Hmm. Incompatible yet believed by some sages. On the one hand………….
Does this strike you as a paradigm issue? Isn’t culture a huge factor in what we believe to be true about the world? If you were writing stories in the 14th C BCE, what would your worldview include? And what about the 1st C CE? Do you think the worldview of the audience changed over that time?
I couldn’t agree with you more!
As the commercial goes … MICROPHONE DROPPED! HIP HIP HOOOOOOORAY!!!!!
I do not find the article by Roy Blizzard to be particularly compelling.
For a start, there is a general problem with the interpretation of Scripture when anyone starts allegorizing it without some kind of justification to do so, that is embedded in Scripture itself.
If anyone gives themselves permission to do this, then where is their end point? Where does such a person draw the line between what Scripture is actually communicating, and what may sound plausible, but can just as easily be a reflection of personal creative thinking and pre-existing biases.
In specific, this article does not account for passages such as are found in Ezekiel 28, for example, which contains a backwards looking view from the future – apparently about the King of Tyre – but which then drifts into a description of a being who was in Eden, who was an anointed cherub, who was not born but rather created, who started out perfect in all his ways, but who ultimately went bad and engaged in specific kinds of corruption and criminal activity, who is specifically targeted for a fiery destruction, who is gazed at many witnesses and on it goes.
How safe is it, to say that these types of Scriptures are all allegories or somehow metaphorical, if there is no compelling evidence in Scripture itself, to warrant such a take on them?
The passage out of Ezekiel 28 (NKJV) is pasted below for you to consider in this light.
“You were the seal of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13
You were in Eden, the garden of God;
Every precious stone was your covering:
The sardius, topaz, and diamond,
Beryl, onyx, and jasper,
Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.
The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes
Was prepared for you on the day you were created.
14
“You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15
You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.
16
“By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.
17
“Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty;
You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor;
I cast you to the ground,
I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.
18
“You defiled your sanctuaries
By the multitude of your iniquities,
By the iniquity of your trading;
Therefore I brought fire from your midst;
It devoured you,
And I turned you to ashes upon the earth
In the sight of all who saw you.
19
All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you;
You have become a horror,
And shall be no more forever.”’”
“I will sing to the LORD, for He is highly exalted. Both horse and driver He has hurled into the sea.” (Exodus 15:1)
This song of Moses is, perhaps, also mentioned in the Brit Chadashah (New Testament) as a song that will be sung by those who defeat the beast in the end times. However, this time they will be singing by the sea of glass instead of the Red Sea and holding harps instead of tambourines:
“Those defeating the beast, its image and the number of its name were standing by the sea of glass, holding harps which God had given them. They were singing the song of Moshe, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb: ‘Great and wonderful are the things you have done, Adonai, God of heaven’s armies!’” (Revelation 15:2–3)
I wonder if HaSatan can be at many places in this world, where bad things happen at the same time? Does that make him be omnipresent?
Probably not omnipresent, but not a problem if a third of heaven’s host got kicked out to earth with him? That could be a lot of help, from what I can see, anyway. Revelation talks about a huge angelic fight that occurred.
Interestingly, Moshe built a Tabernacle according of what he was shown to be in heaven… so it is said that this world is somehow a shadow of a reality that is in heaven…
If that is so, now I wonder, who are the ones we can see here on earth that got together with HaSatan and have been kicked out of heaven with him? Wouldn’t they be human?
As far as we know, humans are unique to this earth’s creation. We are told that the angels were a created order in heaven that existed prior (as far as I have been able to tell from the Biblical record, anyway) to our creation.
I bet those angels are being blocked from being seen by us because that would make it just too unfair. We would be too afraid of (worship) them. Not to say that they haven’t shown themselves to people who do worship them. There are many accounts of people who report just that.
The is is an interesting presentation which is valuable in a number of aspects, and the final point is well-taken. Still, I would be interested to know how Casuto reckons with the cursing of he serpent specifically, “The LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, cursed are you above all livestock and above all beasts of the field; on your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life. I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.” Genesis 3:14-15 (ESV). It seems that the personalization of this image goes well beyond the parameters of allegory. Am I wrong?
Yeshua said that ALL evil comes from a Mans own heart. If you choose evil ways without repenting and not stop doing evil you will go deeper and deeper and I believe that has consequences too. Somebody who chooses not to obey Gods instructions for living as you can read in Deuteronomy 28 lots of curses follow that YHVH Himself causes to suffer until even eating their own children! I have, simply as I am, looked up all these curses and I have to say there are many mental and psychotic problems that I see also today. I wonder now why the new testament is full of demons ect. Could it be that somehow in early Christianity this was not understood and they made their own greek thinking opinions about this subject. The Roman church has a large history about exorcisms and so on. Now today we see it also in the churches. Ministers running to cast out when they see demons or deceases. I wonder where that comes from. When I look at my life and how I have strayed from God I have seen the horrible consequences of my behavior and how I hurt others by it. I , myself am responsabel for how I live and treat others before YHVH. I would like to learn more about this, I want the truth about this. I ask myself what happens when people do evil and keep doing that for a long time, what kind of person/ beast will you become? You come to a point that you can not blame others anymore even if you had animal like parents, family,friends or? Its a subject that messes a lot with me and I want to understand more about it. Maybe Yeshua healed the total mess a person became saying or doing one word to restore already how it was in the beginning because its His Character. Maybe Yeshua showed a piece of Gan Eden on earth. I do not believe that YHVH and the devil are opponents and that they will have a last fight in the end. YHVH has made everything ready, satan was created by God and therefore not equal to the LIVING GOD! Funny that Jews never talk about satan…
Sorry my english is not so sophisticated as you all but comes from the heart..
Shalom and bless you all!
Devorah
I think you make a good point. When my daughter was in Zambia, she witnessed a young boy chained to a tree because the tribe thought he was demon possessed. He really was just mentally handicapped, but in that culture, there was no concept of mental disability, so it was blamed on demons, which were part of that culture. Perhaps, once again, we need to read the Bible in its own context and understand how the world looked to people in the audience, even though now we have very different views (sometimes) of the same phenomena.
Hi D, I agree with you!! Rabbi David Aaron said in one of his teachings, ‘we are not punished FOR our sins but BY our sins’. Exactly your point and it confirms Torah. Thanks!
As a person who has been involved in deliverance for years I have seen the most bizarre demonic manifestations. So find this article interesting. I guess a man with an experience is not at the mercy of a man with an argument. Casting out demons was a very large part of Jesus ministry. To suggest because we have modern medical knowledge somehow demons no longer exist and we just need to be medicated in many instances. If that’s the case where did all the demons go between Jesus coming and now. I would suggest our Western perspective is a rationalistic, scientific worldview and is generally anti anything supernatural which is totally an unbiblical worldview. Most of our worldview is full of unbelief when it comes to God. Jesus said he came to to destroy the devils works and he commands his followers which includes us to go and cast out demons. In actual these signs are meant to follow us. So if that’s not happening it seems we are defect in our understanding and theology wouldn’t you say.
Dear Robin,
Thank you for delivering the captives. I hope that they stay delivered instead of just enjoying a good (temporary) housecleaning. We do have to “go and sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon” us.
That being said, I wonder if, once again, the ‘fight’ over whether there are spiritual forces of darkness or not comes down to the definition of those forces. The argument of whether there are demons or not can only be had if BOTH SIDES are agreeing on the definition of what they are arguing about. Both sides, I contend, are holding some sort of pagan thought of what demons are; one side is arguing they exist, the other that they aren’t, but I want to say “define demon”?
Let’s start over. Everybody. I refuse to use a pagan’s definition for my position either for or against anything. Am I the only one who is asking this?
What about the N’filim, Genesis 6? They were never destroyed in the flood. Can not their corruption still be perpetuated? There is a spiritual realm, and we must calculate that into the equation when we’re trying to understand Yeshua’s dealings with evil spirits. This is certainly a matter that requires discerment from the Ruach Hakodesh. Personally, i feel there’s too much focus on evil, and in turn that focus draws time away from where it should be.
[Mat 16:23 NASB] But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God’s interests, but man’s.”
[Mat 12:22 NASB] Then a demon-possessed man [who was] blind and mute was brought to Jesus, and He healed him, so that the mute man spoke and saw.
I am so surprised at this Greek discussion. Why does it have to be either or? Of course sin carries it’s own consequences. Yes there is such a thing as wacked out brain chemistry. Yes there is a spiritual realm that has real evil spirits. But they aren’t outside the will of God. If they want to touch a righteous man they need permission from God Himself.
1 JOHN 5:18 Job 1:6-12 2 Chronicles 18:21
Who was the arch angel Michael fighting with that prevented him from reaching Daniel in a timely manner? What drove the pigs into the sea? I wonder how Mary of Magdala interpreted this after she’d been delivered of seven demons? Are we supposed to be so simplistic as to think it has to be either one or the other?
Sorry not this ex medium. I’m waaaaaaay too grateful to deny what happened to me!
God bless you Laurita Hayes.
P.S. Since Adam (who was standing there with her) sinned willingly and Eve was deceived is it possible her dialog was with Adam? Just a thought.
OH and yes there is such a thing as brain damage and wacked out chemistry for various reasons!
I feel that way about the Trinity. If scholars can take the same passage and interpret it differently, then maybe that should tell us something.