Pseudo-gramma
“For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote of Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My word?” John 5:46-47
His Writings – What is the plain sense of Yeshua’s statement? If you believe what Moses wrote, you would believe what I am saying, but if you don’t believe what Moses wrote, how will you believe what I am saying? It seems pretty clear to me. If you and I believe the Torah, we will discover it is about Yeshua. But if we don’t believe the Torah, then how will we ever trust the words of the Messiah? Doesn’t that seem to be the sense of it? Then I ask you, how can so many believers claim that Moses’ writings are not valid and at the same time claim that they follow the words of Jesus? Even Yeshua remarks that such a statement is a contradiction. It is false. It is pseudo-gramma, writing that is not true.
Unless, of course, Yeshua is lying.
Or, by some twist of spiritual logic, we decide that He was only talking about Jews.
Most Christians assert that Moses spoke the truth. Most also claim that Moses did speak of the Messiah and that, in general, the Older Testament is a proclamation of God’s plan fulfilled through the Messiah. No one I know is ready to set aside the Ten Commandments as irrelevant, useless, antiquated ethical practices of ancient, ill-informed, wandering nomads. Most Christians believe that God did speak to Moses and that Moses faithfully delivered God’s message to Israel. In fact, the claim that the Older Testament reveals the Messiah is based on the assumption of its veracity. But at the same time, most Christians claim that the Law of Moses doesn’t apply to them. It was for Jews, not Christians. And if that is the case, then how are we to understand this straightforward remark by Yeshua? If we don’t believe Moses’ writings, then we won’t believe Yeshua’s words. Apparently the two go together. Apparently you can’t have one without the other.
What are Moses’ writings? Well, they certainly are not limited to the few mentions of a coming prophet. Everyone in Yeshua’s audience clearly understood that Moses’ writings are the Torah, the full complement of the first five books of Scripture. And what does it mean to “believe” Moses’ writings? We know enough about Hebrew thought patterns to realize that this is about doing what Moses says, not simply acknowledging that Moses said it. When I do not practice Torah, I do not believe Torah. Ipso facto, if I do not practice Torah, I am not practicing the words of Yeshua. The only conclusion possible is that Yeshua’s words are Torah. They contain the same message and require the same behavior. Anyone who says that he follows the words of Jesus but refuses the words of Moses is calling Yeshua a liar. Such a person claims that it is possible to not believe Moses but believe Jesus. I don’t know about you, but I’ll take Yeshua’s word on this one.
Topical Index: Moses, writings, gramma, Torah, John 5:46-47
Dear Skip, most of us have not a PhD of the Biblical sciences and especially not in the Torah. I fully agree with the statements you made. However Torah is not simple and certainly not easy to fully understand and to apply, since a lot of it does not apply anymore. It would therefore be helpful to provide us with a list of what is no longer valid. I think e.g. of Exodus 25 through 31, 33 + 34 etc etc. I do realize that this is not possible, but what is then a good guideline.
As I have suggested before, just look at the 613 Torah commandments found on the Judaism 101 web site. Each one has a Scripture verse for reference. Then you can easily decide which apply today and which apply to you.
Good Morning, Skip!
We are in New England right now visiting with my sister who had a medical emergency. While here we’ve had the pleasure of visiting a Messianic Congregation on Sabbath. I thought it was interesting to hear that there are only 613 commandments found in the Torah… but when doing a study on the New Testament…. the congregational leader says there are well over a thousand! He said his believing friends comment that Torah is too difficult to follow because of the 613… to which he replies that the New Testament must be even harder to follow then, because it has well over a thousand!!! Now that would be an interesting list wouldn’t it!!!!!
Tova Shana, Linda
Linda and Kelvin Morales
Bayamon, Puerto Rico
Yes it would be an interesting list. Please ask him to provide it. I would love to see it and compare.
Si, Moisés dio 613, David los bajó a 11, Miqueas a 3, Jesús a 3 y Pablo a 1… No es tan difícil vivir la Torá. Eso creo yo. Lo que pasa es que nos enredamos en querer ser “perfectos”, pero Dios solo nos pide ser santos… como Él. Bendiciones.
I am certain, more than ever, that I will never be able to convince anyone that Torah living still applies today. I have spent 4 years trying to reason with fellow “Christians” of Its validity. I believe that the Words of Torah is a revealed truth. After countless conversations and debates with many who have been deceived by replacement theology, I have resided that, just as the Holy Spirit brought me to light, He has to do the same in others. I have grown weary because of reason, so now I just live It. 🙂
Jimmy
And there is NO BETTER apologetic for the Way than to just live it. Thanks, Jimmy.
Don’t give up Jimmy. Pick up sword and be strong and courageous. It is true that The Spirit must be at work in a person for them to be able to hear this message. But as it is with the gospel there is a means by which they get the message. Someone has to care enough to explain it to them.
The reason there is always such a strong resistance is because people have been carefully trained to be terrified to keep Torah. This most hideous of lies is crafted in such a way as to appeal to the conscience of the most sincerely committed and dedicated lover of G-d. They’ve been (catch this important phrase) “led to conclude” that it is the ultimate insult to their Savior who suffered and died so He could nail it to the cross and give us a new covenant sealed in his precious blood. To go back is to go straight to hell. Ha Satan may only have a few tricks in his bag but he knows how to craft them and make them stick in our minds. He leads us with questions that can bring us only to his conclusions if we don’t know scripture and must rely on our own understanding. The only antidote to this is to listen carefully to what people say as you talk with them and then gently ask them questions that can only lead them back to the truth of G-d’s nature, character, and commandments. Start your questions with a phrase like “I understand exactly what you’re saying. I was taught that as well and I believed it for years but then {insert VERY short testimony} and I started thinking “that’s not like G-D at all!” Then start asking appropriate questions that bring them back to biblical conclusions like- Didn’t He say He never Changes? Isn’t everything He says to us good and good for us? Didn’t He say His word is eternal? So should we remove Ps.119 from our bibles? When we all come into the kingdom are we all going to do whatever seems right in our own eyes? Surely He won’t rule and reign in anarchy!? Here’s the one that finally got me. Can’t we trust Him when tells us to do something? Isn’t His word SAFE? Skip just gave us a powerful one this morning. Didn’t Jesus say “For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote of Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My word?”
Any hint of sarcasm or disgust will ruin the dialog before it starts. You should HATE THE WORK OF SATAN WITH ALL YOUR MIGHT AND SEEK TO DESTROY HIS LITTLE KINGDOM THAT HAS BEEN SET UP IN THEIR MINDS. Only Perfect Love casts out fear. Forgive them. They don’t know what’s been done to them and they don’t know what they are doing.
Love them enough to stick with them.
Shalom
Sorry Pam. I didn’t mean to suggest that I am discouraged or stopping all dialogue with others. On the contrary, I am more encouraged today than I have ever been. My point was simply that my actions convince more than my words; for what good is an explanation in word alone if my life doesn’t reflect what I am explaining. Thanks for your concern, but this brother is “floating in the rapids with my head above water.” (Skip’s analogy of staying in the flow) 🙂
Jimmy
Amen to that for sure brother. Walking it out is what makes it real and proves it reasonable. We can only speculate as to why Avinu is waking some of us up to these things. It’s a privilege that comes with a responsibility. I’m sorry, I get very passionate at this season because I really expect to hear that shofar calling me to my bridegroom. I take extra care to prepare for Him but it reminds me of the ones I will leave behind if they don’t wake up too. I have the heart of an evangelist and it overflows into this issue. This is a most disturbing deception for me. It even tops hawking G-d’s word for profit.
Huh…who knew, and I always thought pseudo gramma meant someone trying to impersonate your grandmother! 🙂
Just wanted to say I have been enjoying some of your records lately Skip. Thanks for making these available for download.
“I always thought pseudo gramma meant someone trying to impersonate your grandmother!”
Hi Greg,
Good point regarding “gramma.”
I was thinking pseudo gramma as “a trickster, someone who leads you to believe something that is not true.”
But my great gramma was the person I trusted most.
Then I thought of the “pasture gramma” (grass) on the plains of South America.
Grass makes me think of David’s musical Psalms, but pseudo grass doesn’t make sense.
Pseudo grammaR might make sense in terms of the title, but Skip doesn’t make typos in titles.
“Gramma” is linked to a prior lesson called Melanchthon’s Mistake, which is about Psalm 37:5.
Psalm 37:5 is an answer to the question, “How do I get my heart’s desire?”
Which just might be the most important question.
But I don’t see how it is connected to gramma 🙂
The difference is no one had the power in their own ability to keep the Torah perfectly and still cannot. It is not that Torah is outdated at all but we all had to receive the only One who could keep it perfectly in order to have His righteousness before the Father. Those who lived before He came were declared righteous because they believed the Promise of God of His Saviour and we can receive Him inwardly by His Spirit and experience Him acting out His own righteousness through us. The Torah’s Author is Author of both but only He could perform it, so sacrifices were done to cover sin until He could get to operate Himself through them what He said. We can know every line but no human can live a perfect God standard but God Himself.
As Skip has pointed out elsewhere, there are only 613 commands to keep. How many laws are on the books in the USA (or here in Australia for that matter)? Thousands? How many actually apply to you?
Out of the 613, some apply only to the Levitical priest, some only to the High Priest, some only to women, some only to men, some only to children and some only to parents etc.
If you have a look at them carefully, there are only a few that are contentious – the dietary laws, not wearing clothing of mixed cloth (mixing linen and wool) and keeping Sabbath. The rest you probably keep anyway.
In Deut chapter 30 Moses is speaking directly to us in the last days about this very thing…
Moses said it isn’t too hard. John said the same. So did Paul, so did Jesus himself. We’ve been told that it is too hard, that no-one can keep it, because it gives us an excuse when we don’t. Yes, we do all miss the mark, but not because it is too hard – rather because we make wrong choices. That’s when we need propitiation – someone to make up the shortfall. That’s where God’s grace comes into play, through Yeshua’s sacrifice.
As I pointed out on the topic “Reassessment”, only 2 of the 13 sacrifices had anything to do with sin – the sin offering (offered by an individual for unintentional sin) and the guilt offering (for unintentional mistakes by a leader). The rest of the sacrifices were for other purposes. All teach about Messiah Yeshua.
You are right that none of us are perfect and none of us life a perfect life according to God’s standard of holiness, but that is not the same thing as saying that it is impossible to live according to Torah. Zecharia and Elizabeth could do it (and I’m sure they’re not the only ones). Paul also claimed the same for himself (Phil 3:6), but then went on to point out that even keeping Torah perfectly does not result in justification before God. The Torah is powerless to declare anyone righteous, because the law was given to define sin. A declaration of righteousness can only be made by the Judge – God Himself.
could not be declared righteous before God, is the point I am making. They were all trying to keep it in the flesh in order to be acceptable to God, which was the heavy burden that Jesus came to lift because it could never make them acceptable. He said He came not to do away with the law but fulfill it which only He has the power to live it through us, as one eternal sacrifice forever for sin. We have a sin nature that Torah keeping cannot solve, nor our own sacrifices, nor our good keeping of a rule, because sin is a heart issue. Saul before he became Paul kept the law and killed the Christians. He was righteous according to the law but not according to God’s Holiness. If they were keeping it perfect enough to be as Holy as God there would not have been any need for any sacrifices or a Savior. Yes I can be good at something but never perform God- life which is perfect Holiness. Paul describes it very well in Romans chapters 7and 8 and also where you mentioned in Philippians 3:9 where he calls his following of all the laws and rituals a self-achieved righteousness that is not to be compared to the true righteousness that can only come through Christ. He warns the Galatians not to go back to being a slave to bondage of trying to be acceptable in the flesh, but law keeping was by faith and surrender to the Holy Spirit that they had received by faith. I would be interested in seeing how well everyone is doing who is focusing their attention on 613 rules instead of on the only perfect rule keeper who wants to be their focus as their Head Shepherd in life. Looking at my achievements to keep them is taking His glory and He isn’t going to let us get the glory for His atonement for sin.
There are 3 laws that Paul talks about, all using the Greek word “nomia” (lit. knowledge): the Law of Moses (Torah), the Rabbinic (Oral) Law (which is what he railed against as being unable to bring righteousness) and the Law of Sin and Death. We need to read carefully and take note of the context in order to discern which one he’s talking about at any given time.
What Jesus said in Matthew 5 was “Don’t think I came to abolish/destroy the Torah; I came to pleroo it – fulfill it – to interpret it correctly, fill it full of meaning, show you how it was meant to be done”. In Jewish thought, to “destroy the Law” was to interpret it wrongly, to take away or add to it. To “fulfill the Law” was to keep it correctly, as it was intended to be kept. Remember, Jesus was speaking Hebrew idioms in Hebrew to a Hebrew audience. We have to ask, “what did His original audience understand by what He said?”
Again, Torah observance was never to produce righteousness, rather to teach us what sin is and to teach us about Messiah. It is a matter of obedience after we are declared righteous by a Holy and loving Father.
Romans 7 and 8 cannot be read in isolation from Romans 6. This is not the right forum to go into a verse-by-verse analysis of these passages, but suffice it to say that if we do not remember that Paul (whose Hebrew name was Sha’ul) was a Hebrew Rabbi (a Pharisee by his own testimony) writing to congregations meeting in the local synagogues on Sabbath and made up of Jews and gentile converts, both believers in Yeshua as Messiah and others who were not believers. If we divorce Paul from his Hebrew culture and beliefs we are in danger of grossly misunderstanding his writing (even as Peter wrote, “…those who are unlearned twist them to their own destruction.”).
BTW, Paul took place in animal sacrifices, even after the cross, as recorded in Acts when he paid for and presented the votive offering for a group of young men who had completed the time of their Nazirite vows. Not bad for someone who supposedly taught that all that was done away with and finished with at the cross. Either Paul was a hypocrite (teaching one thing and doing another to please men) or we misunderstand what he taught.
Oh, yes – the laws and rituals in view in Phil 3:9 are not Torah, rather they are the Oral Law of the Pharisees. A very important distinction (the same, in fact, that were in view in Galatians). Paul never taught against Torah observance, that Torah was no longer required or that it was obsolete. Quite the opposite in fact. Had he in fact taught that it was done away with, he would have been (rightly) stoned as a false prophet. The very definition of a false prophet is one who comes teaching that we should not follow the Torah (the “Law of Moses”) but another set of commandments.
That is what the church has taught that Jesus taught for 1700 years, and that is a major reason why our Jewish brethren rejected Him as Messiah, because the picture we present to them of a Jesus that came to do away with or supersede the Law is a false prophet according to the definition given in Scripture.
The Law is not for salvation. It was never for salvation. It is a) to define sin, b) to teach of Messiah and c) to teach us how to live harmoniously in the community of the righteous.
Salvation is by grace (God’s declaration of righteousness bestowed freely on us out of love) through faith (hearing and acting on God’s promises). This was taught to us by Abraham before the Torah was given through Moses at Mt Sinai. ‘Twas ever thus. We had to come out of Egypt (by grace through faith) before we came to the mountain (accepting the covenant and living in obedience). Relationship comes first – growing into obedience comes later.
Blessings.
Who keeps count of the requests made of us by parents, spouses, children and others we love? The choices we make without thought in deference to those we truly care for numbers in the thousands, perhaps tens of thousands. I only find myself keeping score if I resent the request or requestor; then every request is counted a burden.
My sanctification largely revolves around the foregoing – getting the count down to zero. Yeshua’s teaching me that sort of attitude towards others doesn’t square with His way. How much more so when it comes to our Heavenly Father. Who’s keeping count of His requests?
Amen on what you expounded on Skip. When Yeshua was here on earth, every scripture he ever referenced or quoted was from the Torah or the Tanakh.
I think the Apostle Peter reasoned with the elect who were exiled and dispersed abroad to Pontus, Galatia, Capadocia, Asia and Bithynia in a similar vein.
In his first and second letters Peter addresses the magnificence of the Messiah’s resurrection and what it should mean for them now ( I Peter 1:19-25). Most Christians will not deny that. Peter then goes on to say that God’s divine Spirit will now enable them to achieve all that is Godly and holy (II Peter 1:3). (Many Christians know that intellectually but in their hearts, they really don’t believe it because they don’t fully engage with the Spirit in all aspects of their life. They view the Spirit more like a Vitamin pill. I’ll take some when I need some so they create God in their own image to fit their view of heaven and comfort zone).
Peter drives the point home to his fellow believers — OK. The resurrection of your Messiah was real. The power of God’s Spirit to empower you to do the things He did is real. He then emphasizes to them that all these miraculous wonders are not just myth or clearly devised stories (II Pet.1:16) because he (Peter) was one of the ones on the holy mountain when God the Father blessed His Son and they all heard His voice!
BUT THEN HE MAKES THIS CLAIM which I think is powerful and germane to John 5:46-47 as well.
Peter states that even though he was one of the very very few eye witnesses who was with Yeshua before and after his resurrection and experienced all these awesome things…he claims in II Peter 1:19 (Amplified) — we have something even FIRMER to stand on still and that is the prophetic words that have come down to us! (Everyone knew that Moses was considered one of the greatest prophets).
He continued by saying, “You do well to pay close attention to it (prophetic words) as a to a lamp shining in a dismal (squalid and dark) place, until the day breaks through [the gloom] and the Morning Star rises (comes into being) in your hearts.”
In other words, cling on to it like a blind man to his cane because….
I Peter 1:20 — …no prophecy of Scripture is [a matter] of any personal or private or special interpretation. For no prophecy ever originated because some man willed it [to do so] — it never came by human impulse — but as men spoke from God who were borne along (moved and impelled) by the Holy Spirit.
That is pretty heavy because Peter (one who was an eye witness to the glory of the resurrection and his glorified state after the resurrection) is saying, don’t just believe my powerful testimony but cling on to God’s inspired prophetic words which are firmer still!
For me, it ties in with the latter part of Luke 11 (verses 37-54) where Yeshua is speaking about the weightier matters of the Mosaic Law and about how ALL the blood of the PROPHETS were shed before the foundation of the world as a statement against that age and generation (how much more ours).
Also, in Revelation 15:3 — we find that the Song of Moses and the Song of the Lamb will be sung when God begins to consummate all things.
“You do well to pay close attention to it (prophetic words) as a to a lamp shining in a dismal (squalid and dark) place, until the day breaks through [the gloom] and the Morning Star rises (comes into being) in your hearts.”
Hi Christine,
I’m not sure where the quote above comes from, but it is very beautiful; I like to think of the lamp as consciousness or the moon.
Regarding Luke 11, I like verse 23: “He who is not with me is against me; and he who does not gather with me scatters.
Makes me think of Michael Corleone in the GodFather, when in the moment of his transformation from pampered son to potential GodFather, he warns his older brother with the following words:
Michael: Fredo, you’re my older brother, and I love you. But don’t ever take sides with anyone against the Family again. Ever.
We as Christians have a hard time remembering that when Moses came down off that mountain he had the stone tablets of instruction (Torah) in his hands AND the picture of Grace in his mind (the Tabernacle). We are negligent when we disregard the chapters following Ex. 20–the building of the Tabernacle. When people want to find parts of the Bible that are “invalid” like the gentleman said above about Exodus 25 through 31, 33 + 34 etc etc. It makes my heart shudder and cry out to hear that the most valuable words to Christians are “invalid” TO CHRISTIANS!
If we would really, really study the Tabernacle, its offerings and sacrifices, the priesthood, the structure and furniture on and on in the 50 so chapters that speak of the Tabernacle you will discover message of Jesus Christ screaming out to you. Yes there are some rules that apply only to the Tabernacle. And yes there are only some rules that apply to Jews specifically. We should not disregard them as invalid but instead seek what God is saying in them.
For instance, in the sacrifices alone, God laid out a plan through several different sacrifices to atone, forgive, make peace, and bring man back into fellowship with Him. Every single sacrifice was fulfilled in Christ. The priesthood–oh if we really studied that and understood God’s message we would not be messing with the holiness of that office. The pattern of the Tabernacle is laid out two different ways: one is from God’s perspective and the other is the path for us into His holy throne. And when I think of Jesus hanging on that cross between heaven and earth knowing that EVERYTHING written in the Scriptures He was fulfilling I am brought to my knees.
Within the 613 commandments we find instructions on how to care for the poor. If we really followed those instructions there wouldn’t be welfare and the poor would be cared for as well as empowered. The secular mantra about Social Justice would be considered robbery and not a movement within the church. Marriage would be a covenant mirroring God’s covenant with us not an institution to be maligned.
God’s word is living and ALL of it is of value. In 2 Tim. 3:16-17 Paul starts out with “All Scripture is…” He is speaking of the word that means “make perfect” and “to complete”. In Romans 15:4 Paul writes “…whatever was written in earlier times was written for our benefit…” Therefore all of God’s word is written for our instruction.
The issue is the heart, it is transformation, it is intimacy with God, and it is about a relationship when the Torah is written on our hearts.
“But he replied, ‘If they won’t listen to Moses and the Prophets, they won’t be convinced even if someone rises from the dead'” (Luke 16:31)!
Shalom and leshanah tovah one and all,
Skip states that “Anyone who says that he follows the words of Jesus but refuses the words of Moses is calling Yeshua a liar.”
While John declares that anyone who claims to follow Yeshua and who does not keep the commandments is a liar!
Fortunately for us … John, and others as well, declare that when we stumble along our path we do have the eternal and perfect Koehn HaGadol …. WHO is there to intercede on our behalf! But forgiveness is for believers … members of the community … folks within the encampment.
So Skip … the big question to you … what is the differentiating factor between an ignorant believer (non follower of Torah) and a shakran (liar) as John puts it? … Or is there any differentiating factor?
b/t/w … effective message brother!
The difference is that the ignorant believer embraces the truth as soon as he understands it (remember Sha’ul’s encounter with those who had not yet heard). Proverbs calls these the first kind of fool. They are fools only because they lack correct understanding, but as soon as they receive it, they accept it with joy. The liar refuses the truth when it is given because he prefers the dark. In my experience, many Christians would rather cling to their traditions and their childhood theology rather than examine the truth. They refuse to question, probe, seek. Their minds are closed because they are comfortable with their beliefs. Heschel says that faith is a lifelong struggle with God – a journey of constant learning. Apparently a lot of people gave up along the way.