Paul’s Education
for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, “For we also are His offspring.” Acts 17:28 NASB
For we are also his offspring – Paul read the Greek philosophers. At least he has a working knowledge of them. He knew enough to use their statements in his own presentations. Donna Dozier remarks, “This goes a long way in explaining some of the Hellenism apparent in Paul’s teachings. In Acts 17:28 Paul debates with philosophers and quotes a local philosopher, Aratus from Phaenomena 5; in Titus 1:12 he quotes Epimenides; in 1 Cor. 15:33, he quotes Meander. (Hegg 40) but this Hellenism makes him no less Jewish in his own eyes or in the eyes of the Jews around him. He still declares that he, like James, still lives according to the law (Acts 21:24), has a zeal for Torah (Acts 22:3), declares himself to be a Pharisee (Acts 23:6), a Hebrew of Hebrews (Phil 3:4-6) and at the end of his life, recounts that he served God ‘the way my forefathers did…’ (2 Tim 1:3)”[1]
Recently someone wrote to me about my choice of books by Henri Nouwen and Philip Yancey for a class that I teach on prayer. This person complained that these men were not true believers because their lives were associated with non-evangelical opinions about meditation and homosexuality. The gentleman asked me to repent of my error and ban these books from my class. I deferred. I asked him if he dismissed Luther because Luther laid the foundation for Nazi extermination camps, or Calvin because he participated in the execution of one of his associates on the grounds of heresy. I asked if he rejected Solomon because Solomon didn’t fit the evangelical definition of marriage. You get the point. If I am going to speak the truth of Scripture into the world, I need to know what the world says. That does not mean I embrace, condone or tolerate the ethics of Babylon, but it does mean that I am not ignorant of it. When I speak, I have something to say that resonates. Maybe that’s why I used Janice Joplin’s songs in my sermons at Glad Tidings Tabernacle when I talked about Genesis 4. Everyone knew the words, of course, they just never thought of them as an entry into the pain, rejection and revenge of Havvah.
Paul read the Greek poets and philosophers. He even quoted them in “inspired” Scripture. Tell me what your doctrine of inspiration says about quoting Hedonists and Platonists and heretics as part of God’s “word”? When liberal theologians claim that Paul brings a Hellenistic viewpoint to the text because he uses Greek authors in his arguments, I am not impressed. If liberals quote Thomas Jefferson, am I to assume that they are constitutional conservatives? Lighten up, people. Truth is true wherever you find it. The standard is God’s words, not ours. And God can speak through anyone He chooses, including donkeys.
Topical Index: Greek poets, Hellenism, inspiration, Dozier, Acts 17:28
This reminds me of the home bible study I left for several reasons. The wife of the home study made the comment regarding the future books the group wanted to study. She asked if the book had been vetted and been approved by our reputable leaders. Yes, she was screening what could and couldn’t be read and studied. Only books with inspired content was allowed apparently. Good grief.
Heaven forbid the Ruach be ‘allowed’ to move….
This TW felt like a breath of fresh air to me today….
For me also!
AS I read the story of the separation of the sheep from the goats, it’s obvious even the sheep didn’t recognize the Spirit of Christ in the humans they encountered.
That story tells me no one gets brownie points for being Jewish, Christian or Muslim. It doesn’t even differentiate Atheists. It’s a matter of common humanity.
And God can speak through anyone He chooses, including donkeys. Are we listening?
I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man comes, shall he find faith on the earth?
And he spoke this parable unto certain which trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank you, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalts himself shall be abased; and he that humbles himself shall be exalted.
Luke 18
Thank you Skip for this powerful reminder that NO ONE controls the method or person through which God chooses to speak.
What we DO control is our willingness to “hear” what He is saying.
“Lighten up” … words that I have spoken to my sons for going on 30 years now…’lighten up’ … like you said Skip – Yah can speak thru a donkey – and there are a lot of asses out there.
:-). :-). Thanks Pam.
So funny And SO true.
To whom was Paul speaking?
This is one sentence lifted out of the middle of a sermon to heathens….(read: vs. 22-31) .., who worshiped false gods, and didn’t know the True God; and to them Paul would naturally need to speak in a different way from what he preached to the Jews who knew Scripture.
In speaking to Jews, he lead his hearers by prophecies and miracles to the knowledge of the Redeemer, and faith in Him; in the case of heathen, his aim was to lead them, by noticing the everyday works of providence, to know the Creator, and worship Him only.
Paul spoke of an altar he had seen, inscribed, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.
This fact is stated by many writers.
After multiplying their idols to the utmost, some in Athens thought there was another god they might have missed. After all, with so many….what if one was overlooked?
If a man doesn’t know the real God of heaven and earth, he really is confused.
Read in this sermon what glorious things Paul says of the Creator God whom he served, and would have them to serve also.
God had long been patiently bearing with idolatry, but now that Jesus had come, it was time to end the ignorance.
And thru Paul, the Lord’s servant, the Lord now commands all men every where to repent of their idolatry.
So naturally Paul spoke to heathern of thier poets and their common reading materials, and to the Jews in Scripture.
The Lord will use whatever is at hand to show the emptiness of false worship and false doctrines.
So when we look at the whole pie, I see no importance whatsoever given to the poets of their day.
Its possible I am the “ass” God has chosen to speak thru today.
No matter, with His help, I will be His servant in all situations, stinky or not!
Skip,
I’m just back from 3 weeks in Europe and your TW comments today resonated greatly in my ever
expanding knowledge. While there, I read a book entitled “The Alchemist” by Paulo Coelho from
Brazil. It’s sold 65 million copies and I can understand why.
As you said today, God can speak to us anyways He cares to and since “He so loved the world”,
I was taken by how God speaks to the main characters in this book. They are primarily Arabic, and all
deeply following their dreams and destinies. In their personal “revelations”, they esteem the expression
“MAKTUB”, which essentially means everything in life is written in the Soul of the World and forever so.
And one can reach it experientially and discover that it is part of the Soul of God. The key to encountering the experience was to develope the courage to listen to and follow one’s heart.
Their belief was that the author of MAKTUB was the Son Of God, but unnamed.
Thanks, Skip, for reminding us how easily we can get “stuck” in searching out the limitless truths
God has provided us. He’s dealing with a big world and He obviously knows how to reach each and
every one of us!
To the community: please forgive me for the long post here. I am not trying to hijack the discussion of today’s blog (which I think is a superb challenge, and not unrelated to the issue below), but I have a very deep concern about a particular translation of the Bible (the CLT – see below). I have been wrestling for days about whether I should post this or not. Clearly I have now decided to do so – I need advice!
Based on Skip’s post for 5/31 (A Good Beginning: https://skipmoen.com/2013/05/31/a-good-beginning/ I wrote to a friend with whom I disagree on several theological fronts. Somewhat tongue-in-cheek I wrote to ask if she was a ‘Marcionist’ because of her ‘two gospel’ beliefs. She had never heard of Marcion until now, but does believe the OT, the four gospels, James, etc. are for the Jews, and Paul’s letters are for the Body of Christ.
The basis of her beliefs is a particular translation of the NT – the Concordant Literal Translation (CLT), by A.E. Knoch. It seems that there are quite a few people who use this version. Knoch’s ‘translation’ method is described in the attached links. It’s not clear to me if he really was the superb scholar of Greek and Hebrew as is claimed by some. His method and beliefs are summarized in the links below.
Obviously, Skip is someone to whom I should address questions about whether or not it is a useful translation. I did write to him, but he is a very busy man and travelling a lot as we all know. I can say that the CLT is very difficult to read – someone has said that it is like reading English written by a foreigner who thinks in his own language and translates word for word and tense for tense into English. This is presumably what Knoch did with the Greek!
Anyway, I would really appreciate any insights about this translation from anyone in this community – in particular I’d like to know if my skepticism about the translation is justified. This is not mere intellectual frippery; I am very concerned about truth and error here; Skip always challenges us to go deeper into such things! Today he wrote that truth is where you find it. I’d really like to know whether my friend’s beliefs (and therefore mine, by contrast) are based on truth or error. Perhaps I will never know! 🙂
Thank you in advance, and once again, please forgive me if this is not an appropriate forum for my post. I really don’t know to whom I should turn.
Here are some links; it’s difficult to avoid bias so I’ve tried to find something of a balance here (not entirely successfully, I fear).
http://agatheringinchrist.com/ae-knoch-errors-in-doctrine (Long, negative)
http://www.growthingod.org.uk/concord.htm (Positive)
And here are some less supportive (!) quotes I found:
1.
I trust that anyone who desires to use the Concordant Literal
Translation will be very careful about its lack of scholarship and it
strange procedure for translation (if you can call it that). They use
what is called an “index method,” where they assign one meaning to any
given Greek or Hebrew word and force that meaning into the translation
unless it absolutely does not fit, then they go to the second possible
meaning. This violates the grammar and context in both the Old and
New Testament and produces a translation as ignorant as the people who
did it. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/eSword/message/7772
2.
Both literal and dynamic equivalence philosophies can be carried to extremes. One translation that carries literalism to a ludicrous extreme is the Concordant Version, which was translated by a man who had studied Greek and Hebrew for only a short time. He made a one-to-one rendering in which each word in the ancient originals was translated by one (and only one) word in English. This led to numerous absurdities. For example, compare how the Concordant Version of Genesis 1:20 compares with the NIV:
“And saying is God, ‘Roaming is the water with the roaming, living soul, and the flyer is flying over the earth on the face of the atmosphere of the heavens’” (Concordant Version).
“And God said, ‘Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky’” (NIV).
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/bible-translations-guide
Just a note from Naples.
I should be obvious to ANYONE who is involved in translation that moving from one language to another cannot capture all the idioms of the original nor all the umbrella meanings associated with the original. This is all the more true when languages come from very different worldviews. The follow a rigid procedure of assigning one word in the receptor language to every word in the original language is not only ridiculous, it displays a lack of insight into language itself, which is dynamic and contextual.
Furthermore, the standard for Scripture is not doctrine or translation. It is MOSES, TORAH and what aligns with what God revealed at Sinai. Anything that adds or subtracts from this revelation is to be disregarded, not because of logic but because of covenant commitment. In other words, to believe what the Bible reveals is to endorse what Moses delivered, end of story. You can believe anything else you wish to about the Bible, but your beliefs will not be what the community of the Kingdom believes or acts upon.
John,
Your friend appears to believe in a form of hyper or ultra dispensationalism. If you find normal dispensationalism to be in error, this “hyper” form is even worse. Google these terms together and you will find out their beliefs. Ultimately, the truth is found by doing what Skip stated. The Torah is the plumb line and the measuring rod. Anything that speaks contrary to Paul’s Bible (the Tanakh or O.T.) is in error no matter how eloquent they are at explaining it all away.
I will pray for you and your friend. 🙂
Thank you very much. It concerns me very much, but I want to speak the truth in love.
P.S. If you Google ‘Martin Zender’ you will find a heavy dependence on the CLT in his writings…
John, I’m so glad you enjoyed the little hike with the Lord and me this morning!!! You blessed me.
I was intending to edify if possible, but always the Lord be praised!
I had an answer for you in mind the other day to put here, but wasn’t really sure if I’d be intruding.
My addition is very small, but nevertheless, because you have asked, I will post it here soon.
(I did pray for you to get reliable info and for God to open your friends’ eyes. If I see a prayer request, –I am all over it — its just my way. Father has answered hundreds and hundreds of prayers for me, of all people, so my belief in the worthwhileness of prayer is VERY strong)
Must regroup my thoughts on what I had hold of, much water and many questions from others has passed under the bridge from then to now.
Thanks so much Dorothy for this unanticipated but welcome response; I look forward to seeing your addition!
John
I like to look for the starting places. I always ask “who said that?”
Then, next, “What did that person believe? What fruits are being produced, (or if long time), what fruits showed up in that life?”
Concordant publishing is Unitarian like the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and Christadelphians.
The Concordant Literal Version was translating John 1:1 as “the word was a god” for several decades prior to the Watchtower’s New World Translation.
The main person behind the CLV is A. E. Knoch, an anti-Trinitarian who once wrote articles for the Watchtower Magazine (JWs) back in the 1930s.
The man from whom this comes did a lot of research on them in the 1970s when he was writing a chapter about The Way International for Dr. Walter R. Martin’s book,
The New Cults (Vision House, 1980).
The Way also used the CLV as a resource for denying the deity of Jesus Christ.
He said they also published a Greek interlinear edition, long before the Watchtower published the Kingdom Interlinear NT.
He says to warn Christians that the CLV is not what we believe about Christ in the least.
I might as well include this from Kingdom of the Cults literature:
(unsure who to ref. as author)
Unitarian Universalism is a fairly small, but influential, cult. Having some 300,000 registered members, mostly in the U.S., they are becoming very popular. Relativism, tolerance, and alternative lifestyles are all buzz words used by Unitarian Universalism.
The Unitarian Universalist name comes from their denial of the doctrine of the Trinity and their belief that all human beings gain salvation. According to Universalists, the mere idea someone might go to hell is not compatible with the character of a loving God.
Its roots go all the way back to the sixteenth century when Unitarian beliefs became popular during the Reformation. Unitarian thought and Universal thought were merged together during the late eighteenth-century in America during the Age of Reason. The intellectual elite of that time refused to believe in such biblical teachings as total depravity and eternal damnation, but rather embraced the idea of a loving God who would never cause someone to suffer.
Adherents of Unitarian Universalism base their beliefs primarily upon their own experiences and are not committed to any one religious system. They believe that individuals have the right to decide for themselves what to believe in and that others should not infringe upon this right.
As a result, one such believer might lean toward liberal Christianity, while another might lean toward New Age spirituality. There is no real dogma beyond tolerance—for everything except biblical Christianity. They reject the Bible as a book of myths—denying it is the Word of God—equating it with barbaric writing that has little to do with modern man. They reject the Bible’s portrayal of a Triune God, leaving the concept of God up to each individual’s imagination.
To the Unitarian Universalist, Jesus was a good moral teacher, but nothing more. He is not considered to be Divine, and every miracle associated with Him is rejected as being outside of human reason. Most sayings of Jesus recorded in the Bible are regarded as embellishments on the part of the authors.
Among the Universalist beliefs: Jesus did not die to save mankind from sin, as man is not a fallen sinner; emphasis is placed on humankind’s capacity for goodness; sin is completely relative, and the term itself is rarely used; man saves himself through personal improvement, salvation being a purely worldly experience, a “waking up” to the world around oneself. This is very important, for death is final. Most Unitarian Universalists deny the existence of an afterlife, so all we have on earth is all we’ll ever get.
These verses may help you as you try to win your friend from the cult teaching. Much prayer and fasting will be in order as well.
The Bible refutes their falsehoods.
Jesus does save mankind, which was in a fallen state since the Garden of Eden and separated from God by sin John 10: 15, Rom. 3: 24-25, 5:8, 1 Peter 2: 24.
Man is not good, but sinful and hopelessly lost. It is only through the grace of God and faith in the shed blood of Christ on the cross that mankind can be reconciled to a Holy, transcendent God, Gen. 2: 16-17, 3: 1-19, John 3: 36, Rom. 3: 23, I Cor. 2: 14, Eph. 2: 1-3, 1 Tim. 2: 13-14, 1 John 1: 8
Unitarian Universalism has nothing in common with biblical Christianity. It is a false gospel, its teachings are contrary to the Bible, and its members strongly oppose traditional, biblical Christian beliefs (while purporting to be free of discrimination or prejudice of any kind). The Bible clearly refutes Unitarian Universalism on all the major points of its teachings.
(Please double-check the scripture I’ve supplied in case of a typo)
All this is to John Adams only, — in case its of use to him.
TO ALL OTHERS WHO READ: No emails to me. It’s equally fine with me if you like it or don’t.
I don’t have time to argue or reply.
Thank you Dorothy! It is helpful; I know that my friend believes in a hell that is not eternal – she is very much into the teachings of Martin Zender – a very zany self-proclaimed Bible scholar. (www.martinzender.com)
John
“To the Greeks, what was beautiful was holy; to the Jews, what was holy was beautiful.”
I found this quote on a historical website while looking for something else, and I liked it because it clarifies some grey areas. The slippery slope is to think that everything we deem “beautiful” is a manifestation of God’s beauty.
“God is bigger than the box we put Him in.” is the maxim – but the slippery slope can lead us to think that “God is speaking through” anybody or anything. Is that true? Should pastors quote Nietzsche positively – because God “can even use him”? I’m not so puritanical as to think everything worth reading or listening to must have the “Christian” stamp on it – but I’m not sure we should throw the floodgates open so wide.
And if a donkey cn talk, watch out. Who knows what is going to talk next! The real question is, will I be listening.
Profit and Loss- is knowing Christ “worth it?”
~ Paul still declares that he, like James, still lives according to the law (Acts 21:24), has a zeal for Torah (Acts 22:3), declares himself to be a Pharisee (Acts 23:6), a Hebrew of Hebrews (Phil 3:4-6) and at the end of his life, recounts that he served God ‘the way my forefathers did…’ (2 Timothy 1:3)
~ What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my LORD, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ ~
Paul, (formerly known as Saul) was a pedigreed Pharisee. Yes, amen and to the “nth” degree.. No flaw in that fellow- no sir- he was zealous for the Torah and for the traditions of his fathers. So much so that he, in his religious fervor set out to destroy these young rebellious upstarts, those who would name the Name that is above every name, those who were first called Christians (a derogatory term meaning “little Christs”) in Antioch. So much so, that he was present and presiding over the stoning of Stephen, the first martyr among the followers of the Way.
Old habits (do) die hard, don’t they? Yes, they do. Think of those among our own community who come from a long line of Catholics- dating back to who knows who and having neighbors and friends and family and (of course) tradition. Are you a Christian? Well.. you see..- I’m Catholic. Are you a Christian? Well.. -you see- I am a Jew- therefore I cannot(?) or need not(?) be saved. I dunno. – It’s a mystery to me.
It’s a mystery to me why any man – anywhere, would want to reject Christ. I could fill seventeen books about the benefits of knowing Him as personal LORD and Savior and on and on and on..
Being a Christian is not about your religion, nor your religious background- whether you have one or not- it does not matter. Listen again for the 999th time to this verse and try to understand:
~ If any man (can it be said any plainer?) If any man be in Christ- he (or she) is a new creation- old things (including my pedigree, including my position, including my profession- all philosophy- all perspective- these all are “old things”- With Christ and *in Christ* – there is a new and fresh perspective. It is knowing (yes, experientially) He is with us always- even unto the end of all days- He will never (ever) leave us, nor forsake us, nor leave us as orphaned children. Oh, I could go on.. but, for the sake of brevity (am I too late?) I will not.
Got Jesus? – there’s half the battle won. Does He have me? – there’s the other half!
Can we sing it, say it, know it-show it? -I am His and He is mine!
If this is too long for or too wordy.. or time is in too short supply to read this- feel free to stop right here.
For those who would linger awhile longer, may this be a double-blessing:
Loved with everlasting love, led by grace that love to know;
Gracious Spirit from Above, Thou hast taught me it is so!
O this full and perfect peace! O this transport all divine!
In a love which cannot cease, I am His, and He is mine.
In a love which cannot cease, I am His, and He is mine.
Heav’n above is softer blue, Earth around is sweeter green!
Something lives in every hue Christless eyes have never seen;
Birds with gladder songs o’erflow, flowers with deeper beauties shine,
Since I know, as now I know, I am His, and He is mine.
Since I know, as now I know, I am His, and He is mine.
Things that once were wild alarms cannot now disturb my rest;
Closed in everlasting arms, pillowed on the loving breast.
O to lie forever here, doubt and care and Self resign,
While He whispers in my ear, I am His, and He is mine.
While He whispers in my ear, I am His, and He is mine.
His forever, only His; Who the LORD and me shall part?
Ah, with what a rest of bliss Christ can fill the loving heart!
Heav’n and earth may fade and flee, firstborn light in gloom decline;
But while God and I shall be, I am His, and He is mine.
But while God and I shall be, I am His, and He is mine.
(*George W. Robinson, 1876)
~ whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or the present or the future—all are yours, and you are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s ~ (1 Corinthians 3.22,23)
To analyze literature and quotations and writings according to God’s words, so as to “know what the world says,” is that so different from Yeshua eating with tax collectors and sinners? I’m sure He knew what the world was saying then. And He spoke “the truth of Scripture into the world.” And if we happen to be called to word-crafting, we can, too. Again, the key is using the word of God as our gold standard, against which all other words are measured.
Thank you, Skip, for this message for today. Needed and insightful. And thank you, brothers and sisters, for a vibrant response!
And as for donkeys talking, in my work in animal husbandry, I can assure you animals talk. No, not with human voices, but giving glory to God they must speak, and they do speak. The question is, as Roy stated, are we listening?
Paul (formerly known as Saul) a Servant to All
To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. And this I do for the gospel’s sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you. (1 Corinthian’s 9.22)
The man’s motivation. Why did Paul (formerly known as Saul) do what he did? He most assuredly had a change of heart and a radical one at that. What did Paul (formerly known as Saul) do that was so decidedly different? “This I DO for the gospel’s sake” Uhh.. what exactly IS the gospel? If Paul (formerly known as Saul) is “suffering all these things”- uhh.. what things? Is Paul (formerly known as Saul) going through a radical transformation of thought and deeds and words? Is Paul (formerly known as Saul) been changed (metamorphed) from what he was before? Could this be Paul’s song as well?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p9affYIgQo
And of course we have to ask the questions- Why? and how? Who is it- what outside Source is working in and on and through this man? Did Paul (formerly known as Saul) have a revelation or encounter with the living God? Something (SomeOne) changed him- and for the better.
May I? Permission to speak to the one looking back at each of us in the mirror. Are we (each) also being changed from what we were “before?” And can anyone testify as to a transformed life? Have we and are we being “changed” or “conformed” (a wonderful Greek word) into the image (another wonderful Greek word) into the likeness of the Son? Is God (now) working in us (as well) to will and to do of His good pleasure?
May I? May I testify? None of you knew me “before.” Before Christ. None of you knew me for the man I was. May I tell it? It is a rather sordid story and one filled with sorrow and shame. I’d really rather not, but our Bible instructs us to “confess our faults one to another- and pray for one another that you might be healed.” Oh no- I don’t want to share. I do not want to confess, but according to God’s own inspired words- I must, for His strength is displayed in our weakness. – Who am I? Who am I (really). Down (way on down) deep in the center of the core of my existence- in the dead center- who is this man?
Lost, but now found- I know you’ve never met him, (perhaps you have), but I am the wandering distracted sheep and the errant son who went astray. Who am I? Another sinner- saved by grace.
Do you know and have you experienced the grace of our LORD Jesus (who is the) Christ? I do. I know it – up close and personal. I know it daily. I know it moment-by-moment and I may now testify- gladly, freely, the grace of our LORD Jesus is “amazing.” I was a sinner, (or as Paul, formerly known as Saul) would say- “the” sinner, but now I (too) am a son. And not only a son, but a saint! (I know.. -I’m amazed also!). Not only a saint (I too have a new name, but I do not yet know what it is!), but a steward and a soldier. I’ve come a long way – this journey- this pilgrimage – what a long, strange trip it’s been. Oh.. but listen- listen intently- focus, please.. Hear these words: Jesus led me all the way!
It is not about me,- it is all about Him! He (the Savior) must increase, but “I” (the sinner) must decrease. Don’t look at me- look at Him! If you’re looking to find fault and you are looking at me- you will not be surprised- for “I” am full of them. I am a fragile, frail and human creature. A man (still) in need of and fully dependent upon a Savior. I will never be perfectly “perfect” until the day I draw my final breath and God (my God and my Father) says “enough”- He is ready- “Come on home.”
Heaven is a prepared place for a prepared people. We are being made ready. Feelin’ that pressure? Experiencing a little heat? Good. Fantastic! Then God (our God) is working in you also..both to will and to do of His good pleasure. And how was (he inquired) the Captain and the Author of our salvation made perfect? Uhh.. through suffering? Is the servant (he inquired) above his Master? No. Then ~ Dear friends, don’t be surprised at the fiery trials you are going through, as if something strange were happening to you ~ (1 Peter 4.12).
I know many of my friends who are “right now” – this very day are going through something. Going through the fire. Going through the flood. Going through the valley of the shadow.. Going through- and on over to the other side. No test- no testimony. Has God ever delivered you? Have you no memory of a time where you might (also) testify- “I know it was God who did that.” And He-redeemed-ransomed-and renewed me! God leads His dear children along. Hallelujah!- He is with us. Amen.
I want to speak, but I already speak. It is my own scars who are speaking. Glorious battle wounds that cause me to “remember.” Oh, how many times dear sheep are we “reminded to remember?” Who is it that “reminds” us of these things? Does memory serve a purpose? Does God bring us through these things for naught? Is God (he inquired) “random” in all He allows (or directs)- and is He (he inquired again) always good? “I will bless the LORD at ALL times- His praise shall CONTINUOUSLY be in my mouth!- O magnify the LORD with me and let US exalt His Name- together!- for the LORD (our Lord) is good!
Who satisfies YOUR mouth with good things so that your youth is renewed like the eagle’s? Who causes the rain to fall upon the just and the unjust? Dear friends.. it is the LORD. This is the LORD’s doings and it is marvelous in our eyes.
Oh LORD.. open our eyes to see these things- for without vision- without sight- without the ability to know- to perceive – to understand- and to discern we will fail and fail miserably. Without You LORD, we confess (none of us) may do anything of eternal value. Teach us (also) to pray. May we (also) learn to lean. Cause us to be weak in order that Your strength be displayed and be known in us. Fill us to overflowing and beyond with Your Holy Breath for Your kingdom’s sake. Break us ADONAI, then bless us. Take us through the fire and through the flood, but never forsake the work of Your own hands for we now know- You ever love and care for, You LORD, serve and protect the Bride belonging to You. Teach us also – to love and to serve one another in love. These things I would ask for in the Name and authority of Christ, because of your invitation to Your own children- “ask and you will receive”-open the eyes of our hearts, give us wisdom, give us understanding and above all give us the will to obey You in all things. Because Calvary has made this private, yet very public prayer possible. Amen.
I am new to the broad conversation here and am late in this particular conversation but am very interested in the topic.
I am curious of the declaration that Paul studied the pagan writings. It is difficult for me to imagine righteous Jews, seeking to know and grow in the knowledge of HaShem investing precious time studying pagan works. Works blatantly idolatrous, unlawful. It is difficult for me to imagine Yeshua doing such. I thought the people of HaShem grew in the knowledge of Him by meditating on His glory and His word. It would seem to me that Paul, as each of us, would acquire a base of knowledge of many pagan (and neutral) practices, works etc simply by living in a pagan world. Paul is living out of centuries(?)of Hellenism at this point, I think? Of course I don’t know for sure if Paul did or didn’t which is my point. And to compare an animal created by God being selected by God to deliver a message at one time to studying or meditating on a work or culture which honors or praises immoral or idolatrous actions and thinking in challenge to The holy G-d in order to discover some truth about G-d seems to me to be 2 different situations.
Personally, I have been very encouraged and have received revelation from the Father by observations/works from different sources, including those which I recognize as flawed in some very important areas-Nouwen included. So I am not agreeing with the gentleman-in-question’s judgments of who is or who is not a true believer. Or with the inference thereby you cannot receive truth of G-d from neutral or pagan sources. All things belong to the Maker of heaven and earth-hallelujah! He may do what He likes. I am not suggesting God cannot or does not speak or act through whomever or whatever He in His infinite wisdom chooses. I also agree that we should listen to the Ruach of Elohim to lead and guide in our journey.
Isn’t the desire and challenge to live as a holy nation, a royal priesthood to the praise of His great Name the point of this journey of learning to live based in HaShem’s Torah? The reason this is an important topic for me, is that as I seek to raise 5 children in this pagan culture the Christian mantra has been, “it’s all good”. It’s NOT all good. And the fruit is plentiful. We have to unlearn how we have been taught to live and re-learn the good way. I love learning to walk in the ways of G-d, rather than the innumerable “Christian laws” and various forms and interpretations we have to sort through. Wisdom from heaven. Embracing all that glitters in the Christian community does not lead to the good way. And neither does “throwing the baby out with the bath water”.
I so enjoy your posts Skip, and all the comments. My family and I are continuing to grow in the knowledge of HaShem, and the glorious wonder of His coming in the flesh- walking in His torah- of which you are a part. Thank you for your great efforts.
Karen
Thanks for the analysis. I can see why you would think Paul didn’t STUDY pagan material, but he was obviously familiar with it, familiar enough to be able to quote it. And do does Jude by the way. At any rate, the idea was to demonstrate that we find truth in the pagan culture and should be able to employ it as needed. That does not mean, of course, that we endorse all the accumulated idolatry that surrounds these nuggets of truth, but to turn a blind eye because it doesn’t fit the “accepted standard” is basically to do what Islam does today – and thus to be unable to speak to the world in need.