Problem Pronouns
For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins. Colossians 1:13-14 NASB
He/his – In recent dialogue these verses were used to prove that Yeshua’s death on the cross was for the atonement of our sins. But that exegesis is based on theological assumptions about atonement, not on this text. If we read the text carefully, paying attention to the pronouns, we discover that Paul tells us that God the Father, the one and only God, is responsible for our deliverance and citizenship in the Kingdom. He rescued us. He transferred us.
There are some other noteworthy facts in these verses. First, we see that Paul recognizes that the Kingdom is the Kingdom of the Son. This fits nicely with Yeshua’s claim before Pilate (it’s all about kings and kingdoms). Secondly, we see that Paul thinks of YHWH as the one who initiated these actions. But thirdly, there is a significant and critical role for the Son to play in these events. Redemption comes through the Son. It is initiated by the Father but obtained through the Son. Finally, we note that Paul uses “forgiveness of sins” as the equivalent of “redemption.” Are we to conclude that these statements mean Yeshua died on the cross for our redemption? I don’t think so.
Before you go crazy, notice that these verses do not say when or how redemption became available. These verses can be equally true of redemption obtained by the sacrifice in the heavenly Temple before the foundation of the world (as John tells us in Revelation). All these verses say is that the Father initiated the events and the Son carried them out. But there is no necessity to apply these to the cross. All these verses say is that Yeshua accomplished the means of redemption, but there is no indication that it took place on the cross. In fact, if we see that the background to Paul’s claim is an awareness of kingdom issues, then we should pay much more attention to the kingdom claims of Yeshua before Pilate. Furthermore, it is difficult to imagine that forgiveness of sins was not available before the crucifixion, especially since Yeshua offers forgiveness prior to His death.
What we have is a conundrum of theological importance. Christianity nearly universally teaches that atonement occurs on the cross. But this requires us to sidestep Yeshua’s own declarations of forgiveness prior to crucifixion and it requires us to modify statements by John and Peter and the author of Hebrews. Furthermore, it significantly alters the theme that it is the Father who brings about redemption because of the actions of the Son, not the Son who redeems on His own. The path of Jewish practice in the first century doesn’t have these difficulties, not because it rejects Yeshua’s claims (in fact, many Jews did not reject his claims) but because atonement was always initiated by YHWH through the Levitical sacrifices on the altar. From a Jewish perspective, Yeshua does not replace the goal which is the removal of defilement and subsequent restoration of fellowship with God. He only replaces the means by which it is accomplished.
Topical Index: Colossians 1:13-14, redemption, forgiveness, cross, atonement
Dear Skip, from the beginning Yshuah was as much God as He was a man. Hence He had all the time the right and the authority to forgive sins, which made the Jews very cross.
If the cross fades a little away in your text, it is then amazing that in Galatians 1, Paul curses everyone who does not proclaim Jesus and His cross. Both are insperatable. This teaching of Paul in Galatians 1 has a very different “undertone” than what I read in your devotional. Maybe your devotional was to short to be clear enough for me to understand fully the point you tried to make.
Shalom
Leo
But you missed the point, probably because you are reading with Christian filters. There is NO question that the cross is central to Paul. But is it central because it is the place of atonement? I don’t believe that even the Pauline texts support this. And surely Yeshua (John 3:14) and John (Revelation 13:8) and Peter (1 Peter 1:20) don’t support this. Then why is the cross so important? Because is answers the one question on every Gentile’s mind. What about DEATH? Unless there is an answer to that question, all the rest is irrelevant. Sin means nothing to someone outside Torah. But DEATH? That’s another issue!
We have heard the mantra, “Jesus died on the cross for the forgiveness of sin” so often that we stopped asking, “Would this make any sense to first century Jewish believers?” I am not diminishing the cross at all! I am only asking if it doesn’t speak to an issue much bigger than forgiveness.
And my book on this subject is on the way to the proofreader today.
Great! Looking forward to reading your book.
Shall we prepare our minds to be melted and re-paradigmed? 🙂
I look forward to it because it seems I really have more questions about all of life and all of death now than ever before. What a ride!
Beyond Belief
The Covenant of Blood
~ this is the New Covenant in My blood ~ (Matthew 26.28)
~ Moses then took the blood, sprinkled it on the people and said, “This is the blood of the covenant that the LORD has made with you in accordance with all these words.”~ (Exodus 24.8)
~ And all the people answered, “His blood be on us and on our children!” ~ (Matthew 27.25)
~ In (blood-covenant) union with with Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our offenses, according to the riches of God’s grace ~
~ For the preaching-proclaiming-message-word of the cross-the tslav-the execution stake, is to them who are perishing, (Jew or Gentile, male or female) -foolishness ~(1 Corinthians 1:18-31)
~ in whom we (all-both Jew and Gentile, male and female) have redemption through His blood..
If redemption occurred “in the Heavenly Temple, then what was the purpose of the cross? Why did our LORD Jesus, the Sent One, the sinless Lamb pray in the Garden of Gethsemane, (the Oil Press) – not my will, but Thine be done? What was this prayer, the prayer of total submission and obedience to the Father all about?
~ But I was like a gentle lamb led to the slaughter; And I did not know that they had devised plots against me, saying, “Let us destroy the tree with its fruit, And let us cut Him off from the land of the living, That His Name be remembered no more. ~ (Jeremiah 11.19)
Redemption foretold, – redemption fulfilled. ~ Paid in full. ~ This is the gospel. The Good News- The Great News, the Astoundingly Wonderful News, “Christ died, and was buried and rose again on the third day.” All this is but history. “Just the facts, m’am.”
Christ, The Messiah died. This is His-story. Christ died for me. This is salvation! This is redemption. This is amazing. This is wonderful. This is life- more abundant and free. In Him – in our LORD Jesus who is the Christ we (now) have forgiveness of sins- because… Because of Calvary.
Beloved, “now” we are the sons (and daughters) of God.. (1 John 3.2)
~ and when you pray, say – “Abba-Father!..” ~ (Luke 11.2)
~ He was despised and rejected and forsaken by men, a Man of sorrows and pains, and acquainted with grief and sickness; and like One from Whom men hide their faces He was despised, and we did not appreciate His worth or have any esteem for Him. Surely He has borne our griefs (sicknesses, weaknesses, and distresses) and carried our sorrows and pains [of punishment], yet we [ignorantly] considered Him stricken, smitten, and afflicted by God [as if with leprosy]. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our guilt and iniquities; the chastisement [needful to obtain] peace and well-being (shalom) for us was upon Him, and with the stripes [that wounded] Him we are healed and made whole ~ (Isaiah 53:3-5)
Love has (rightly) been defined as “benevolence towards another at cost to myself.” What was the final cost (the price of our redemption) at Calvary?
~ knowing that you were not redeemed with perishable things like silver or gold from your futile way of life inherited from your forefathers, but with precious blood, as of a Lamb unblemished and spotless, the blood of Christ.. ~ (1 Peter 1.19)
~ And the day after, Yohannan saw Yeshua Who came to him and Yohannan said:
~ Behold, The Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world! ~ (John 1.29)
Behold the Man upon His cross,
my sins upon His shoulders,
His dying breath has brought me life.
I know that it is finished.
We now gain far more *in Christ* than we ever lost in Adam!
~ if “anyone” (Jew or Gentile) is in the Messiah, he (or she) is a new creation ~
One last thing: ~ the veil of the temple was torn in two,- from top to bottom.. – Who did this and why?
~ For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that makes an atonement for the soul ~ (Leviticus 17:11)
No virgin birth-no sinless sacrifice.
No sinless sacrifice- no blood atonement.
No blood atonement- no salvation.
No salvation-no deliverance-no redemption-no regeneration-no hope.
~ Because God SO loved.., – He gave.. ~
God will provide, (and God did provide) Himself (to us and for us) – the the sinless-spotless-sacrificial-saving-Sovereign Lamb.
By virtue of our Spirit-wrought union with Christ, everything we need and long for we already possess.
Nah, I’m lost, along with a couple of my friends who read this. This one has our brain spinning. I need more information on my level I guess. Seems like so much happened on the cross. The symbolism is all over the place. The water and blood being spilled as well. Maybe you can explain all of those pieces and their significance then more clearly. I get the whole ‘before the foundation of the world’ but He came for a purpose. What would that be then? Seems there was more going on than just death. But even then what answer would they have received about death? That there is an afterlife? Not sure at the time of the cross they would have gotten that message, a few days later, yes. I need help here.
I’m with you, Theresa! When I, in the past, simply turned my brain off and pretty much blindly accepted the doctrines I was taught, it was so very easy. It’s not so anymore. Now that I actually have to think on the how’s, why’s, when’s and whatever’s, it takes much brainpower and noggin nudging’ to get some depth and perspective on things.
We’ve had so much trouble just lining up what happened in OUR own family two and three generations ago, it’s no wonder we have such a daunting challenge trying to figure out what happened a couple of thousand years ago and longer.
Plus, there is such a wealth of information to wade through, that it is very much a many, many piece puzzle to sort out and put together.
As daunting as it is, it’s still a real adventure in so many ways. But, that aside, simply walking daily as close to Torah as I can seems to calm things a bit for me. The more in line to Torah I am are the times I seem to see the clearest regarding all of the items in my life. It’s not like my little pea of a brain will ever come close to figuring it all out, but I’m sure gonna ride that trail as fast and hard as I can to try to figure it all out.
Regarding your comment of “Not sure at the time of the cross they would have gotten that message, a few days later, yes.” I see what you mean, however, the event itself wouldn’t have been known immediately except by a small handful of people. So, that isn’t an issue to me really.
I tend to view the whole life of Yeshua from my 21st century mindset like a movie or biography neatly choreographed and indexed for repeated viewing. The reality is that it played out, I’m sure, like life does today, by word of mouth and magnified by the current technologies. It didn’t take long for quite a few people to hear that my son’s house was broken in to on Monday via phone, word of mouth, tweets, Facebook, emails, etc.
As then, and as sure today, the story of someone clearly dying and then a very short period of time later, appearing as living again would be quite the story to spread and have a tremendous impact. Even now, as I think about it, and even so far removed from the event by time, the resurrection of Yeshua does tell me something very definite about what happens after death. No one else has any tangible offering to present such as what Yeshua’s resurrection provided.
We think we know about everything that happens around us on a daily basis because we have so many quick methods of getting information out. But, the fact is, many, many events happen all around us every day that we have no clue about and will never know happened. That doesn’t mean they didn’t happen.
So, there does seem to be some significant information for people to seriously consider regarding Yeshua’s death and even have as a foundation of hope regarding that ever mysterious time after death of the body. I can see the strong possibility that Yeshua’s death was a definitive answer to the ever real and ubiquitous event touching everyone.
I am very curious to see all the pieces Skip has shared so far collected and presented as a whole.
I hope that proof reader reads fast.
I just finished the final chapter of my book on the Hebraic view of the cross. I hope to have it available in 3-4 weeks. But as for your immediate inquiry, is there any human problem BIGGER THAN DEATH? Perhaps our comfortable, antiseptic lives keep us from really confronting this, but come with me anywhere outside the insulated world of the G20 and see what really matters. In fact, the very idea that we have to cover up the reality of death should tell us that there is NO BIGGER PROBLEM in this world. So if the cross is about DEATH, that’s a very big issue.
Beautifully expressed Skip! Hebraic view to the core, and reflective of the Truth. As we who are be,ievers are transformed, we receive a change in our thinking process, and doctrines of men fall away! Praise Yah! May we all renew our minds to the mind of Messiah. Philippians 2:5-11
dang. another book to covet.
ditto, bp.
So far, I see Skip saying that forgiveness is a God thing since the beginning. People returned to life after sinning via teshuva, turning around from the anti-Torah, anti-God path of sin, thus, repenting or changing one’s mind by stopping the movement in sin and back in to the ways of Torah. The act of turning around, getting back on the path is obtaining the life of God, faith, that is, action way beyond simple intellectual assent.
It is expected of us, obligatory, to walk in His ways in order to know Him and, thus, life. Mistakes will be made, however, He has made provision for dealing with that through repentance. You repent, you live. You don’t, you die. Forgiveness comes via the chesed of Elohim, being granted by Him, the source of our redemption. It is a daily obligation to put Torah in front of us and then actively follow it. Faith. Doing what God says is belief, it is faith. Life resides in obedience. Life is granted via His grace through our faith of doing, repenting when veering off the path. Obeying is the only signal we have faith. It is Torah shaped action.
But, there is still a problem when we approach death of the body. What happens to ‘us’ when the body stops? Death is the issue. We all die. No one escapes. What to do?
It seems that Skip is saying that the death of Yeshua, which was voluntary and substitutional, was necessary for us regarding the state of ‘us’ after our body dies. Yeshua, being sinless, did not have to oblige death’s penalty. Death had no sway or power over Him as there was no sin in Him to be accountable to death for. Thus, after His body died, He simply overpowered death, once and for all and for all of us, in a body just like ours. Somehow, His death is considered in our accounting as we live our lives in His name, that is, in the ways or Torah, His instructions that contain and produce real life.
Yeshua’s resurrection was the media event of all ages to clearly, deliberately and completely demonstrate the answer to what happens to ‘us’ after our body dies. It lives somehow, differently, and completely alive as witnessed by hundreds before His ascension. I can’t find where all the how’s are answered but a solid answer as to what happens is exhibited for the world to see and hear about. Just observe Yeshua’s life and you have the results of the death issue. He killed death for us. He destroyed its power over us. He lived the life He is calling us too in order to experience the chesed He continually shows toward us.
At least, that’s what I think Skip is presenting. I’m sure it needs a lot of polishing.
“Somehow, His death is considered in our accounting as we live our lives in His name, that is, in the ways or Torah, His instructions that contain and produce real life.”
I think I might have to rethink this sentence. Not necessarily that it is wrong, just misplaced in the scheme of the explanation.
Ok, here’s a question. If Yeshua’s death was to deal with death and not forgiveness, what is the functional difference before and after the cross?
Are there different things that happened when someone died before Yeshua’s death/resurrection as opposed to after he died/arose? If Yeshua took the power of death away when he died and rose, how did the, as yet, undefeated death, prior to Yeshua’s death play out when people died?
🙂 Skip does a wonderfully challenging job, that is a certainty! Tantalising it is not!
Causing one’s head to spin, yes, but where would you find such flavours of the Word, that truly satisfies your spirit and hunger?
Death is overcomed by obedience, is defined clearly by Yahshua’s life. YHWH will not and cannot expect/accept human sacrifice. Life is sacred, as YHWH is the Giver of life.
Yahshua did not die for our trespasses, He nailed them upon His death, learning obedience through suffering and submitting to ABBA’s will. Thus death has NO hold on Him. HE looked beyond death for the victory of “not my will, but Yours be done”! HE died to self-will willingly, albeit tormented.
Yahshua is our pattern Son, for us to walk-in His footsteps, obeying all of YHWH’s commandments and
teaching them from His lifestyle.
Right from the Beginning/Genesis, YHWH “is responsible for our deliverance and citizenship in the Kingdom. He rescued us. He transferred us.”, there can be no doubt, but thus so clearly written in the Word.
“He only replaces the means by which it is accomplished.” The means of redemption is through our turning back to YHWH’s ways and through obedience to His will for us, no less, individually and corporately; not through animal sacrifices, which served as a cost/price to pay for transgression, as a public confession/deterrent to transgress, for cleansing, all of which are by ABBA’s chen and chesed.
The price to pay for our transgressions would now be our very lives, leading to diseases, and finally death.
So, death is a big issue, right from the Beginning. Then for the overcomers, comes the resurrection!
Looking forward to your new books of much sought-after exciting themes, Skip.
And looking forward to your visit here too!