Change of Venue
“No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.” John 3:13 NASB
No one – Apparently Yeshua was mistaken. Everyone knows that good people go to heaven when they die. Everyone knows that Moses and David and Peter and all the saints of the Church are in heaven now awaiting our arrival. Right?
Randy Alcorn wrote a book about heaven (Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Heaven). It is advertised as “biblically based answers to more than 100 questions about God, Heaven, angels and eternity.” Unfortunately, it doesn’t seem to include this verse. The biggest problem with heaven is that you aren’t going there! In fact, no one is. The thief of the cross didn’t end up in heaven when he closed his eyes. He is waiting for Paradise just like all the rest who sleep in the graves. But even when he wakes in the final resurrection, he won’t get a ticket to heaven. Why? Because heaven is coming to earth and earth is the place where Man is intended to reside. “I saw a new heaven and a new earth” does not mean you are going to float to that mansion in the sky. You were built for this paradise. It will be restored to its original design and you will enjoy God’s presence here. But heaven isn’t for us. Heaven is the realm of God and His angelic court. We pray for His will to be done here, on earth, where we are at home. There’s no leaving. Get used to it.
Ever since the Church adopted that Platonic view of a dual universe, Christian followers of the Greek philosophy have been encouraged to think that heaven is the intended abode of the righteous. Yeshua apparently thought otherwise. His parables about leaving are aimed at the wicked, not the righteous. His declaration about the Kingdom is clearly focused on this world. And his statement that no one has ascended into heaven makes it pretty clear. The Greek is oudeis. It couldn’t be stronger. Nothing, not a single one, nobody, not even one. None. Period. Heaven is not your destination. Plato isn’t issuing tickets to God’s realm despite the affirmation of Augustine and Aquinas.
Of course, you could read Randy Alcorn instead of listening to Yeshua. It’s so comforting to think that you will escape all this. That warm fuzzy Platonic feeling is so appealing. Just walk away. Leave it all behind. Close shop. “I’m outta’ here.” Makes a huge difference if I am forced to think that I’m not leaving. If I’m not leaving, I have to clean up my house, take care of my yard, help the neighbor, get the community ready for God’s arrival, fix the planet. If I’m not leaving, I will have to deal with the mess I made. It would be so much easier to just say “Good bye.” But oudeis has ascended. And that includes me.
So now that you’re going to be around for awhile (like forever), what should you be doing today to prepare for the King’s return?
Topical Index: heaven, no one, oudeis, John 3:13
You have probably been asked this before, but where are Enoch and Elijah, if not in heaven?
I had the exact same question. How about Angels ascending and descending? Perhaps Jesus was referring to humans only. But what about when Jesus tells the story of Lazarus to dip his finger in water?
I think we have two choices. Wait for the Kingdom to come, which can be a most difficult job and quite painful. Or go to the Kingdom and find peace.
Skip, you are sounding more and more like Jehovah’s Witnesses. Are they more on tract then the traditional church?
I doubt it. I am just trying to understand what the text says, without any presuppositions if I can.
John 3:13 is a different context. Nicodemus was being taught, that in natural bodies no one can ascend to heaven or enter into Kingdom of God. Just read previous verses. Thank you
Ok then where is Yeshua right now? And how do we explain John 14: 1-4
Thank you for clarity!
Looking forward to Skip’s responses to comment questions.
Since I am leaving in the morning for Rome and things are a bit crazy right now, you may have to wait awhile. I don’t think I will have internet for a couple of weeks. Have fun working on things in my absence.
An excellent read on this subject is N.T. Wright’s “Surprised By Hope”.
PRAISE GOD.
The Greek certainly comes out through the philosophers of Paul’s time and in our time too.
I am very glad that the Prophets of GOD told us the truth and it was to be believed.
They are DEAD and await the greatest event still to materialize: THE SECOND COMING OF THE LORD.
Luke 16: is NOT about heaven nor is it about hell. It is about HOW men try to justify themselves before a Holy GOD and it will NOT stand the test of the fire that is prepared to burn all that is of the earth.
TO HIM be the GLORY for ever and forever.
The Jehovah Witnesses have at least 144,000 in heaven while the Prophets of GOD have none until HE COME.
The teaching in Hebrews of Elijah and Enoch apply to the same teaching brought to us by GOD’S PROPHETS…no man HAS ASCENDED..even KING DAVID has not ascended..he is still in the grave where they buried him.
Your messages today and yesterday have been right on. I have so enjoyed reading your daily word and want to share it with everyone especially my Christian friends and family. Thank you. Delma
What about these verses from Revelation 6?
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
I guess my first question is, Where is the altar? If we agree it’s in heaven, then what does the word “under” refer to? I’ve always thought it meant directly under the altar (but still in heaven), but maybe it’s referring to the earth simply because the earth is “under” the altar which is in heaven?
I struggle with this often. I don’t believe we go to heaven either, but I run into certain verses that I can’t quite wrap my head around. I’d like to see replies to the previous questions as well.
Patience is a virtue. Cognitive dissonance is a reality.
I know this is a working cruise for you, but I hope you and Rosanne will enjoy some quiet time on the ship when everyone else goes ashore! Meanwhile, I’m sure some of us will reach the point of changing attitudes/beliefs/behaviors as we anticipate the next challenge and more cognitive dissonance. 🙂 May you have fair winds and following seas.
Thank you. We are looking forward to some quiet time. But we will also go to Patmos for the first time and to several sites with Minoan frescos. Lots of cross cultural history in the region. And Ephesus.
The phrase “under the altar” I have been told is a Hebrew idiom referring to being buried in Jerusalem.
Since my husband died and I am struggling with stage 4 cancer, I supposed I should be concerned about the concept of going to heaven. Yet I cannot be convinced of it because of plain spoken verses like this. I expect to die (when my time comes) and be buried. And there to wait for our Lord’s return and the resurrection. In the meantime, I hope and pray for the strength to do what my Master desires of me, even when I am weak. The question remains, what can I do to prepare for the King? This world is very messed up, and the needs are pressing everywhere. I need strength so badly. And I guess I need peace that so many things will be left undone when I die.
Lisa, I give my condolences for your loss and prayers for your shalom.
Dear precious Lisa may YHVH be your strength and your comfort in this trial. May you find rest for your soul in the assurance that Our Father in heaven knows what is left and will handle it perfectly.
Many years ago I found myself in a destructive chaotic situation that I had no power or control over. I realized that I did not know how to pray even though I thought I prayed a lot.
So I cried out for the Father to teach me. He took me into a season of prayer that was like nothing I’ve ever known before nor since. Miracles became my daily experience and much was accomplished. I found myself praying day and night for hours and hours on end. It was exhausting and often it brought me to the place of inability to go on. My heart was willing but my body was done. At those times I would just pick up the binder that contained everything I was praying over and hand it to Him and say;
“Father you know everything in this book because You are the one who gave it to me in the first place. You know my heart in everyone of these matters because I have told You and I know You have heard me. So I’m placing them in Your hands right now for save keeping because You are the only one who is able to bear all this and I cannot carry on for even one more moment.”
Then I would go to sleep in perfect peace and rest secure that my part was done and His faithfulness to guard my cares was sure.
My Grand mother used to tell me “if your husband wants you to go somewhere with him, just put the dirty dishes in the oven and go.” She was so right! He knows our frame, that we are dust and so He gives His beloved rest. That to me is the essence of faith. To be able to put away the cares of the world realizing that I really have no control of anyway and leave them for Him to deal with while I listen to His voice in assurance and Shalom.
The morale of the story I suppose is; He gives His beloved rest. It was then that my husband and I discovered Shabbat. His kingdom comes and His will is done every 7th day. And every 7th day I realize that there is so much left to do and the cares of this world threaten to choke out His word that tells to me to rest.
As for Today’s Word perhaps we are made from a combination of the earth and heaven.
Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Ec 12:7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit (breath) shall return unto God who gave it.
But it is clear that when Yeshua returns we shall awaken from our sleep and He shall make us unto our God kings and priests; and we shall reign on the earth.” Re 5:10
I was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness, until I was shunned (disfellowshipped) at the age of 21. They do not believe in the Trinity, immortality of the soul, and they believe that only 144,000 chosen (anointed) Jehovah’s Witnesses are going to heaven. So this is not an altogether foreign thought to me, the idea that not everyone goes to heaven. It really only makes sense to believe that God’s intention is to restore mankind and the earth to the state in which he created it — good and perfect.
But, it does raise some questions for me. How were Elijah and Moses transfigured with Jesus, if they were sleeping in their graves? I mean, obviously nothing is impossible with God but it does seem to suggest that their “souls” continued to exist somewhere after their bodies had died. And I guess we have always assumed that they were in heaven.
Also, Alcorn’s book seems to suggest that there is something like a “transitional” heaven. According to him, if I die now, I’ll go to heaven to be with God, then when all things are restored, I’ll come back and live on earth in my restored physical body. It’s been a while since I’ve read the book but it did seem that he cited some scriptures to support the idea that there were people who were in heaven, one of which being the one mentioned in another comment above from Revelation 6. I would be interested to hear your thoughts about the verses in that chapter of Revelation.
As an aside, there are FAR more problems with the Jehovah’s Witnesses than just their doctrine. Whether or not they are right about WHAT they believe, their “organization” (yes, that’s what they call it) has such a dark underbelly that I would caution anyone against joining up with them. They have falsely predicted the date of Armageddon dozens of times, they place themselves and their less than 200 year old religion at the center of every Bible prophecy, they are extremely controlling of even the most intimate details of the lives of their members in an Orwellian way, they cover up sexual abuse within their congregations, they are incredibly demeaning to women… I could go on and on. You may think these are the words of a bitter ex-member who is “butt-hurt” about being ousted from my family and religion, but the information is out there for anyone to find with a simple Google search. Jehovah’s Witnesses are bad news… whether or not they have the right answers, they are not, as they claim, “the truth”.
Kevin asks, what about the story of Lazarus (and the Rich man)?
Without this one story, told in just one gospel, there is precious little evidence in the entire Bible that conscious immortal souls or spirits of dead humans go to a celestial heaven.
The story of “The Rich Man and Lazarus” is a parable. This story is the last in a series of five parables starting in Luke 15:1.
Jesus doesn’t say the story of Lazarus is a parable in its immediate context but neither does He say the Luke 15 stories of “The Lost Coin”, “The Prodigal Son”, or “The Unjust Steward” are parables either, but all agree that they are. Only the story of the “Lost Sheep” has the word parable immediately connected to it.
It is true there is a little bit of dialogue from Jesus directed at the Pharisees between the stories of “The Unjust Steward” and “The Rich Man” but otherwise I believe it is clear that Jesus is just continuing with another parable. Jesus even starts this last parable almost exactly the same way He started the previous parable of “The Unjust Steward” in Luke 16:1 with the words, “. . . a certain man, who was rich”.
Upon further study it can be argued that the five stories actually present one long unified parable with a pattern to it.
The first story is a general statement that God is the savior of all sheep.
The second and fourth deal with individuals. The commoner in the second and the privileged steward (Pharisee) in the fourth.
The third and the fifth deal again with these same types of persons but in contrasting pairs. The third focuses on the distant poor brother brought near again while the fifth focuses on the established wealthy man (Pharisee) becoming distant.
Every verse in the story of The Rich Man and Lazarus is loaded with symbolism. It has nothing to do with describing a sinner in the lake of fire but everything to do with condemning the elite in Israel, their stubbornness and their future here on earth.
Oh boy…you have your work cut out for you SKIP as to WHERE to begin when you set forth what you are setting forth. MAY THE LORD grant you much patience as you cover ground again and again and again for the seekers of truth.
What does the first line in TORAH say: … heavensssssss
Should not our logical first question be: which heaven is John referring to?
……
To the woman with the “dead husband” and “cancer”: after the resurrection, the righteous goes to prades and the wicked to “the holding place” until judgement.
If your husband was just he will receive healing in the busem of Abraham.
I believe, if unjust / unclean … A second chance in a process yet to be understood.
If wicked… A period of unimaginable desolation … which I refuse to contemplate.
Cancer is but a shortcut to eternal life !!!
yum…excuse me??? “cancer is but a shortcut to eternal life”??? explain this please because, as a cancer survivor, I think I might be highly offended by this statement…
When the paradigm is focused on escape from this life and a world to come, cancer might seem like a shortcut, but I doubt anyone who has gone through it or anyone who has lost a loved one to it would feel that way. Your comment ignores the reality of pain in this world in order to suggest some kind of bliss in the next, but I am not so sure such a view is biblically justified. Are we to assume that Job felt no lasting grief for the loss of his children just because God gave him more? I hope that the possible callousness of your remark does not indicate that you have adopted a Platonic heaven instead of a restored world.
Skip – great article. I loved it and I agree with you. It’s not what some want to hear, however, it is written and scripture never contradicts but people do. If we don’t understand, we do have help. Ask Yahshua Himself. It’s just that simple.
Thank you Teresa and Pam. Your thoughtfulness and compassion are evident. And yes, I still need to learn to prayer, and even when I can’t, I know our God knows my heart. His faithfulness I trust utterly.
Where, (on earth) Is This?
…John 18. 35-37 (The Son of man before Pilate)
Pilate answered, “I am not a Jew, am I? Your own nation and the chief priests delivered You to me; – what have You done?” Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.” Therefore Pilate said to Him, “So You are a king?” Jesus answered, “You say correctly that I am a king. For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, to testify to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.”
Gettin’ Ready
Heaven is a prepared place for a prepared people. And while we are are the subject of Heaven, – which is a (for real) place, -with real people, – that’s who saints are- real people! Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Peter, James, John..- the list goes on.. but whosoever’s name was not found in the Lamb’s book of life was cast into Cleveland?- no!- was cast into a lake of fire.
The Final Judgment
…~ Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20.14.15)
There is just too much written in our Bible concerning (both) Heaven and Hell to ignore there being such a place.
~ And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame ~ (Luke 16.24) Where, (on earth) is this?
~ Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever ~ (Jude 1.13)
Blackness of darkness for how long? Darkness, btw is total absence of light.
(God is light; in Him there is no darkness at all) Hell? Total absence of God- total absence of light- total absence of life- total absence of love! – Not a happy place! – So what part of Cleveland are you from?
~ And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the Light thereof ~ (Revelation 21.23)
This, is what Heaven is all about..- no so much “location” but the Lamb – Not so much the “where” as the “who!”
~ Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing at the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. The Lamb had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth ~ (Revelation 5.6)
A Lamb? – looking as if it had been slain? – Now, – who could that be? (he inquired).
~ For the Lamb at the center of the throne will be their Shepherd; ‘He will lead them to springs of living water.’ ‘And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes.'” ~ (Revelation 7.17)
The location of Heaven really doesn’t matter all that much to me.. “God will wipe away every tear from the eyes,” is what I’m looking forward to!
That, and this!
The Marriage Supper of the Lamb
~ Then I heard what seemed to be the voice of a great multitude, like the roar of many waters and like the sound of mighty peals of thunder, crying out,
“Hallelujah!
For the LORD our God
the Almighty reigns.
Let us rejoice and exult
and give Him the glory,
for the marriage of the Lamb has come,
and His Bride has made herself ready;
it was granted her to clothe herself
with fine linen, bright and pure”—
for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.
And the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.”
RSVP (only). ~ “Whosoever will,” – may come!
It is virtually impossible to fully appreciate an existence outside of my current physical psychological and social perspective of the time space continuum that I am currently in. Despite this, it seems apparent both in scripture and science that there is more than just this one existence.
Parallel universe, multi-universes, quantum physics, and a host of other scientific theories seem to me to bring some “clarity” (dim glass…very dim at times) to many “mysteries”of scripture; even verses that from a single continuum paradigm to present contradictions.
That we cease to exist in this present continuum neither denies the existence of another continuum (heaven, hell, etc) “running parallel” to this one, nor that we are ultimately going to “return” to this one; both ourselves and the earth itself renewed.
~ If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable ~
(1 Corinthians 15.19) “this life only?” – there is another beyond this one? –
~ But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept ~ (1 Corinthians 15.20) “Firstfruits” you say(?)- You mean to tell me- there’s more to follow?
The point I get from this article is “How then shall we live…right now” When we focus on some “later” our obligations to right now become increasingly vague. We poison our bodies, our minds, our planet, with the carelessness of a child and from that comes great suffering if not for ourselves certainly for others regardless of our conscious intentions. Many of my patients continue clearly destructive behaviors willfully like eating sugary foods despite a diagnosis of diabetes, smoking despite COPD, with the rationalization of “All that matters is my soul”. But what about the suffering of those that care for them? What about the burdens those choices put on the society? How will our willful behaviors be judged by Him? Our ignorance is covered, our slip ups are covered, but what of our continued willful choices that have been revealed personally, culturally, environmentally, physically, scientifically, educationally, how will these actions be judged?
Thanks Skip for you wonderful “wake-up call” to our duties here on earth and how we prepare the way for the return of the coming King and the coming exchange of governments. Truly much needs to be done and no time should be wasted by dreaming to live one day on cloud number 9 “in heaven”. I think I understood what you said, which kind of confirmed my understanding about the 1000 year reign with the Messiah here on earth, however, I just have one little question in regard to heaven. In Revelation 21:10 it says, “He then carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,” This holy city, Jerusalem, compared and alluded to be the bride of the Messiah, comes down and out of heaven. Is this a different heaven, since no one can ascend to heaven? Is that mid-heaven, where we will all gathered to when we meet Him in the air? Similarly, the examination seat (bema) of the Messiah, where we all will be called to stand before, is that somewhere else in the heavenlies, but not in heaven as the seat of authority? Take you time in answering my short question, knowing that you are travelling. Blessing you on your journey.
Funny how we all get caught up with the doctrine of the “after life” or heaven/hell……and totally miss the greater emphasis Skip is making to us all: “So now that you’re going to be around for awhile (like forever), what should you be doing today to prepare for the King’s return?”
This is precisely one of the reasons I left the church establishment. Everything is paradigms and doctrine and we miss the greater reality of the mission given to us in the garden and repeated throughout the Law, prophets and Yeshua’s teachings. How about while we are all waiting on Skip’s response to our long held sacred cows, we actually do what the Spirit was speaking to us through this TW?