The Learning Curve

Who is wise? Let him give heed to these things, and consider the lovingkindness of the Lord. Psalm 107:43 NASB

Who is wise? – I’ve been at this awhile. Actually 6,700 Today’s Word additions so far. Obviously, not quite enough. There are still many more unanswered questions. It is a lifelong process and I am quite sure the goal will exceed my days. But I have observed a few things along the way. I thought I would share some with you. Not necessarily in priority order, by the way.

  1. The more I encounter people around the world, the more I realize how much of who we are is determined by time and place of birth. Most people drift into the beliefs they have about life, the world and God. Very few of us actively choose the elements of what we believe. Yes, we fiddle with the edges, but most of the time our paradigms (our deep worldviews) are much more a function of our culture, language and borders than anything else. These things are highly resistant to change.
  1. This is why it’s so hard to shift our thinking and living. Changing what I think about one part of my paradigm inevitably influences and changes other parts of my paradigm, until at last I begin to feel very uncomfortable in my skin. Not knowing how the story will end, most of us choose to ignore theological pain. We are “comfortable with what we believe,” and so we refuse to continue to examine other views. Ordinary life takes over. No one can live in chaos all the time.
  1. Every idea, and consequently every human ritual, pattern or practice, has a history. There really is nothing new under the sun. It all comes from somewhere, but it’s not so easy to discover those sources, and when we do find them, it’s sometimes even more difficult to accept the real sources of our closely-held beliefs. The Trinity is a good example. So is Christmas. But Western Christianity isn’t the only belief system with suspect sources. Judaism has just as beliefs of dubious origins, like the Shabbat ritual that began with Kabbalah. When it comes to how we practice our faith, we need a very large dose of tolerance. No one has the pure religion we all claim.
  1. “It is easier to study than to pray,” said Heschel. I find his insight as accurate as it is condemning. I wish it weren’t that way. Maybe it isn’t for you, but I seem to be in a place where I constantly don’t know what I know and feel terribly inadequate because I don’t know. This prevents me from praying. You might ask, “Why?” and I would reply that my worldview has been formed by the need to be right, to know the answers. Consequently, I am embarrassed (ashamed is probably a better term) when I don’t know and since I know I don’t know and God knows even better than I that I don’t know, well, it just seems (feels) as if I really shouldn’t be in the presence of someone I have failed so often. Now this sounds very personal (and it is), but my observation is that a great number of people have some variation of this Greco-Roman disease, that is, we are uncomfortable feeling. We would much rather embrace the cold logic of control than deal with the emotional roller-coaster of feelings. We think God is a logical God who wants us to be in control, like a Roman military general. We really don’t know how to be around a Father who cries, who sings for joy, who squeezes us with delight and weeps over our struggles. And so we carry on—alone. What a tragedy. In order to avoid these feelings, we turn to nice, neat rational packages like theology. But it seems to me that we really can’t understand Scripture in its personal application without the involvement of the emotions of the Spirit. I’m not claiming that Scripture can’t be understood at all unless you have the voice of God speaking in your ear. Clearly that isn’t the case. We can do the history, the languages, the culture—all of that—without Spirit involvement. But I think we need more than that to really come to grips with the message, and the message is what matters. Crying counts.
  1. Theology is interesting. As ideas go, it is right up there at the top. Questions about God, the universe, Man, the nature of things, the purpose of being—all of these generate endless examination. But theology isn’t life. It’s abstraction—as all “ology’s” are. So it’s important to remind ourselves that even if we spend a lot of effort investigating, that isn’t the same as practicing. And in the end, I think practicing what very little we have actually concluded about life is far more important than having another “right” answer. At least I have found that even if my head seems straight, my heart can still be crooked. I don’t want to die with that kind of dichotomy. I would rather be a “good” man than a smart one. I have a lot of work to do here.
  1. Not all roads lead to God, but God seems to be able to find us on any road we happen to be traveling. So I am trying to learn to see Him wherever my road crosses another person’s path. And gently suggest it isn’t too late to turn around—for the other person and for me. What I have learned is that force is of absolutely no value in this process. Forceful argument, forced rules, force of will—none really work. The only road someone will eventually follow is the one that makes them feel safe. That seems to be our job: to make it safe to ask and discover, safe to be ourselves right where we are right now. But the answers I have uncovered are not your answers. They can’t become your answers until you have discovered them within your own question. Fortunately, human being a more alike than they are different when it comes to things like pain, worry, sorrow, joy, delight and hope. Maybe making someone feel safe is much more about emotional connection than it is about theological reasoning. Actually, I’ve just about given up on theological reasoning. I still don’t understand why but it doesn’t seem to get me very far with the things that really matter in life. In the end, it’s still possible to change. And cry.
  1. It seems that one of the most important elements of biblical exegesis is understanding the ancient view of historical writing. Frankly, it isn’t our view. What ancient authors tried to convey isn’t about chronologically correct events. It’s about the meaning of selected stories for the intended audience. Ancient history, biblical or otherwise, had agendas and those agendas took precedence over event accuracy. That doesn’t mean the events never happened. It means that the way the events are portrayed is often a function of some other purpose and if I don’t understand what that other purpose was, I’m likely to interpret the story according to my way of thinking, not the author’s. What this means is that I have a lot more work to do. I can’t read the Bible as if it were written yesterday. I’m beginning to think that the best way for me to understand what the Bible really says is to concentrate on the human qualities of the men and women in the stories. I’m pretty sure that basic human concerns and emotions haven’t changed all that much through the centuries. My approach to the Bible is becoming more like an approach to literature rather than a effort to make the text into a systematic theology.
  1. In the end, I’m almost convinced that most of what I believe is the result of how God decided to bring me into the world. I had no control over that. He seems to have been content to start me off somewhere of His choosing, and perhaps my real task is to learn how to be content with His choice. More and more I discover that I really can’t be somebody else. “It is not your responsibility to complete the task, but you are not at liberty to desist from it.”[1]

That’s it, so far. Let’s go forward and see what happens.

Topical Index: lessons learned, wise, Psalm 107:43

 

[1] Rabbi Tarfon as cited in Joseph Frankovic, The Kingdom of Heaven (HaKesher, Inc., 1998), p. 33.

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Baruch Ruby

thanks skip, today more than ever before in my short 63 years I concur with you (SMILE) the further I go the more I know I don’t know and for now I am content. I can rest on more than just the sabbath, maybe a whole week sometimes but not often. Thank you for the honesty. I realize this site is not about theology but more specifically Love and laying one’s burdens down, I have used it to tell other beggars where to find bread .

Alfredo

This is probably one of the best 8 items lists ever written… first of all because nobody write lists of 8 items, and that means that there are no “forced” items into the list just to get to 10… but mostly because it comes from a long journey from a man that has been looking for answers in places where most other people didn’t dare to look into… thanks Skip for sharing your conclusions so far… they are worth every word of them… shalom!

Rick Blankenship

Could we sum up your 8 points with Yeshua’s statement?:
For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? (Mt 16:26)

With a little editing on my part to re-write what Yeshua said:
For what profit is it to a man if he gains [all the head knowledge] of the world, and loses his own [sense of purpose].

It seems to me that we are so busy trying to “know/learn/study” that we forget to “DO”!

When we put the Torah into practice, we get closer to YHWH:
Yeshua said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” (Mt 22:37-40)

This is where I am at on my Torah path.

Pieter

You must be walking in the covering of the Ruach, Skip.
I was just early this this morning contemplating the connection between WISDOM and LOVING-KINDNESS when the realisation (revelation) of the parallel connection between UNDERSTANDING and RIGHTEOUSNESS hit me: A man (woman) is held accountable as far as their understanding goes (mens rea).
And your offering (=prayer) this morning confirmed this truth.

Bill Blancke

This is one I will re-read many times. Just last night I was meditating on why I no longer read/study the Bible every day. My conclusion? After 31 years (7 in vocational ministry) I concluded practice was better than knowledge. Would it be better for me to “know” more or “be” more? I would rather spend whatever time I have left being rich in mercy. Besides, like you I came to the conclusion that Theology is a finite construct of an infinite Being. I would love to go on but the realities of work a day world are calling. Shalom

Sandy

Thanks Skip. I appreciate so much your ability to articulate how I feel…especially #4.

David Nelson

Wow. This is so powerful. Especially #4. That is exactly where I am at this point in my journey. Skip, you have articulated what I have been feeling for a long time but could not put into words.

John Adam

As I read this I thought “this is me, this is where I am.” Thank you Skip for elucidating this in a way I could never do.

Rich Pease

I couldn’t agree more with your thoughts on our needing the Spirit — His emotion,
His wisdom, His guidance and His actual presence in us and in those around us.
And with regard to prayer, isn’t it actually His Spirit and our spirit engaged and connected
either in uplifting times or troubling times? Who better to be in communion with?
Who better to be leading our involvement in life? Who better to lighten and enlighten
our burdensome path?
Yeshua could not have been more definitive when He said: “the Holy Spirit whom the Father
will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.”
We are never alone. We are always in the best of company as we learn to love God and everyone else!

Donna R.

This is so good, Skip! Thank you, once again, for being open and honest. Truth!

Colleen Bucks

I connect to your #4 observance –
I ordered a science- lab -plastic brain and heart and carry them around together in a small bag especially to church as a metaphor .. I feel God’s heart wanting to bring the heart & mind together in a deeper covenant and unity with Him & each other . I have conversations with people to “feel their feelings not try to think a feeling”. Thinking our feelings effects us & those around us !! I pray for myself & others to rediscover the heart God gave us. I believe we are missing portions of truth & God wants us flowing from His Godly intelligence that includes both heart & head rather than a worldy intellect .
I also noticed after reading one of your TW
how the emotion Moses seemed most comfortable with was anger ,and the Israelites showed some emotion of whining & complaining when there was lack of food and water or safety,,,but only after Moses dies do the people weep, cry ,mourn deuteronomy 34:8. It is interesting also in deuteronomy 31:17 before Moses death ,God shares HIS anger intimately with Moses, is God joining with Moses on Moses emotional level……?

mark parry

Beautiful and wonderful and much resonates with me. Particularly : “Most people drift into the beliefs” Bob Dylan sings “most people don’t live or die most people just float”. This forum is not for most people. Also in response to “We are “comfortable with what we believe,” I love the adage God is about comforting the afflicted and afflicting the comfortable. Not perfect theology but it also resonates. “God seems to be able to find us on any road ” I love this whole section best perhaps because I love finding out where God has someone and looking carefully with them in the hopes of discovering what the next step closer to him might be. Skip based on your exhaustive education, insights and sheer diligence at mining for the gold in the scriptures I marvel at the comment “My approach to the Bible is becoming more like an approach to literature rather than a effort to make the text into a systematic theology.” Because I think I have seen it more as family journal of walking with God . And its cool to see we are more aligned in our views than I previously thought. I so appreciate the revelation of your heart and intentions revealed in this mornings post. Thanks for sharing.

Laurita Hayes

Me, too, Mark. You said it best for me. It has to work in the here and now for me, anymore. We all struggle to meet in that here and now against a tide of non-present, of which ‘knowledge’, so-called, has to be one of the more pernicious ways to avoid that present and that encounter with ourselves, each other, as well as with the God we seek to know (which is not the same as seek to know ABOUT). Echo everybody else here who is saying that, too. It’s fun to resonate, y’all! Thank you Skip, for sounding the note.

John Adam

Theory vs. practice. I’ve always been a “theoretical” type of person, not practical or handy, to the frustration of my wife at times ?. As an example, I’m avidly reading our Father Abraham Jewish roots of the Christian Faith by Marvin Wilson and the God of Jesus in light of Christian dogma by Kegan Chandler. But the excitement I get when reading these is because of the factual information they contain. I want to have the arguments ready and the facts at my disposal when my paradigm shift to the Hebraic worldview intersects with those of most of my Christian friends who have a very different point of view. So it’s still theoretical head knowledge as opposed to practical application. This is where I struggle most, just like Heschel stated. So I can identify with what Skip is saying, and as he implies it’s a painful place to be. I feel such a charlatan when I attend church and cannot bring myself to recite the whole of the Nicene Creed and find myself constantly thinking about what is said and whether I agree with it or not. When instead I should be worshipping God and communing with Him. *Sigh*

Jerry and Lisa(

I appreciate the struggle you’re going through and pain you feel, you’re willingness to go through it and feel it, and your desire to be devoted in your worship of YHWH, including being a faithful witness to others. However, maybe “not reciting the whole Nicene Creed” and “constantly thinking about what is said and whether (you) agree with it or not, IS worshiping God and communing with Him, and you’ve just been duped into thinking that worship is what THEY’RE doing and what you USED to be doing, and because you don’t THINK you’re worship is pleasing to Him, then you don’t FEEL like it’s true and pleasing worship.

It may have FELT, before, like you were truly worshiping Him. Maybe you were. Maybe you weren’t. But maybe it would no longer be true worship if you continued to worship the same way, because true worship is to worship Him in spirit and in truth, and you are no longer sure if what you were believing and doing along with them and what they’re still believing and doing was and is the truth or not.

Regardless, never mind trying to figure out if what you WERE doing was true worship or not, or whether what they’re doing is true worship or not . Find out if HE thinks what YOU’RE doing NOW is true worship or not. And if His Ruach bears witness with yours that it is the good, perfect, and pleasing will of YHWH, then you can TRUST and BELIEVE it IS pleasing to Him and you can have peace and enjoy it. I think that YHWH thinks that our STRUGGLE is also true and pleasing worship and that most often we worship Him through our struggle, when our struggle is to seek the truth in the knowledge of Him and His will and His ways, even though we prefer otherwise.

I think you’re feelings that you’re not worshiping and communing with YHWH are because YOU think you’re not worshiping Him and therefore you don’t FEEL like you’re communing with Him, and I know that’s a struggle. But I also think you THINK you’re not worshiping Him just because you’re not doing what you became USED to doing and because you’re not doing what those around you are still doing. However, I think YHWH would rather have you be struggling in you’re seeking the true knowledge of Him and His will and ways, than for you to be just feeling comfortable with your ritualistic performance of a form of religion in unison with other people, not matter how sincere and strongly you and they believe what you and they believe, and no matter how good it makes you and them feel. In my understanding, and according the His Word, the faith that pleases Him is to believe that He IS and that He’s a rewarder of those who DILIGENTLY SEEK HIM! And how do we know if we diligently seek Him? When we get the reward! And what is the reward? TO FIND HIM!

He rewards us when we FIND HIM, not as in our first meeting Him only, but also through our struggle in searching to know Him better, become more like Him, and growing in our loving obedience, THEN He is most pleased with our faith, because we have persevered until He can reward us by finding Him in these NEW WAYS.

My question for you is, if He calls you to be separate from your “friends”, would you be faithful to follow Him in trusting, loving obedience into that pain? I’m not saying He will, but what if? Or if He calls you to stay among them (even with your wife, even if she is not in one accord with you)? My questions for you are, even as I keeping asking myself, will you be a faithful witness of Messiah, through words and deeds, of the truth He keeps revealing to you about Himself, His kingdom, and His Torah instructions? Will you remain in the struggle and the pain of that, speaking the truth in love and not do the things they do if they are contrary to His instructions or you can’t do them with a clear conscience, even if they oppose you, “unfriend” you, or persecute you? Will you be a bold and faithful prophetic witness even if the pain not only doesn’t relent but increases? Will you share in the fellowship of His sufferings becoming like Him even in death?

“My aim is to know Him and the power of His resurrection and the sharing of His sufferings, becoming like Him in His death—if somehow I might arrive at the resurrection from among the dead.” [Php 3:10]

“But without belief (faith) it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Elohim has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly (diligently) seek Him.” [Heb 11:6]

“You will seek Me and find Me, when you will search for Me with all your heart.” [Jer 29:13]

“Therefore, ever since I heard of your trust in the Lord Yeshua and of your love for all the kedoshim, I never stop giving thanks for you as I mention you in my prayers—that the God of our Lord Yeshua the Messiah, our glorious Father, may give you spiritual wisdom and revelation in knowing Him. I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what is the richness of His glorious inheritance in the kedoshim, and what is His exceedingly great power toward us who keep trusting Him—in keeping with the working of His mighty strength.” [Eph 1:15-19]

“‘So there remains a Shabbat rest for the people of God. For the one who has entered God’s rest has also ceased from his own work, just as God did from His. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one may fall through the same pattern of disobedience.” [Heb 4:9-11]

SHALOM. SHALOM. SHALOM.

Jerry and Lisa

I gave you a “thumbs up” too, Skip. However, I figured I’d just be fine using the “REPLY” option here (the one of only two blogs I read – and I don’t waste my time doing Facebook or other social networking), primarily as a way to work out my own thoughts, as I thought that was the primary purpose of this site, and to let the readers decide for themselves whether it was worth it or not for them to read, as no one is forced to do so, right? I have done that before here and there have even been a fair number of times quite a few or at least several readers affirmed it. But, as you say, it’s apparently a “technical” issue, and not a personal one or otherwise, I guess, so, suggestion noted. However, if it’s more than a “technical” issue, that should be made clear, too. Nevertheless, I don’t want to be just another talking head, whether like many one paragraph replies or some even several paragraphs, just flattering others, being superficially sentimental, having nothing substantial to say, or having too much to say. Fortunately, this is not a forced audio reply and we can choose to just ignore others if we want, maybe just because we don’t like them, even if they have something substantial to say and we just don’t want to consider it because it’s too challenging and we prefer to be pastorally comforted in our emotional co-dependencies instead of being changed into the kind of disciples that, as is described of the Messiah’s early disciples as recorded in the book of Acts 17, “turn the world upside down”, “upsetting things everywhere”, “overthrowing the inhabitable world”, “stirred up trouble throughout the world, “set the city in an uproar”, “set the world in tumult”, “subverted the state of the world”. So, trying to accomplish the goal of meaningful substance, effectiveness, and increased readership through “forceful” one paragraph replies will be a very good challenge! Thanks! By “forceful” I don’t mean like Christians or intellectuals define it. I mean like the dictionary defines it – “dynamic, energetic, assertive, authoritative, vigorous, powerful, strong, driving, determined, insistent, commanding, even in-your-face, feisty, cogent, convincing, compelling, strong, powerful, potent, weighty, impactful, effective, well founded, telling, persuasive, irresistible, eloquent, coherent”. So, I’ll do my best. Thanks, again for the challenge.

Oh, may I copy and paste your suggestion in response to others whose replies are often multiple paragraphs or one really long one also requiring “Read more>>”? (Just kidding, of course.)

Jerry and Lisa

Thanks for that. Much appreciated. Shabbat shalom.

John Adam

Jerry and Lisa, thank you so much for your understanding, encouragement and challenges. Notwithstanding Skip’s perfectly reasonable suggestion, I so appreciate your comments, and take it as an encouragement from God, especially so because I’ve just had a distressing discussion with my “ezer kenegdo” about the Trinity…
Thank you again. I had resigned myself to no one else being able to identify with my concerns until you responded!

Jerry and Lisa

Truly my privilege, John. I was thinking about you today when I sat on the “Picture Point” deck overlooking the scenic ice covered lake in the Lone Star Lakes Park behind my house as I’m experiencing the deep emotional struggles of my own walk of faith and it encouraged me to know the truth that not only do we find some comfort in that we share together in the fellowship of His sufferings, but that He considers it true worship that we are diligently seeking him. Thanks for letting me work out my own thoughts about all this in reply to your comment. Thanks for reading it all. And thanks for your encouraging comments to me, too. Prayers of shalom for you and your wife.

F J

I thank Skip greatly that technical is not a hump. I remember listening sometime to a discussion about a prophet who had wished he had never been born because in God seeking His people, this prophet found himself in THE dilemma of seeking …..Actually finding God’s will & that it is different to your own will for what appears comfort at times. God created the prophet to make him a face to face opposer of his apostate, self satisfied brethren. Those that had moved away from seeking are loved much too for the sake of the promise & God knowing the power of sin to corrupt. To return what is His God chooses the point of electric prods when necessary….but who loves & lives for God enough to be the prod? To have the faith to know that it is a kindness & to trust & to empty yourself for this obedience to confront when the nature of men is to hate or ignore or vilify when it exposes darkness instead of humbly receive correction. Thank God for His provision of the Holy Spirit to make what is impossible for men possible & to know if it is an electric shock or a sudden noise that will move the flock from poisoned water & tainted grass . Praise our God of Salvation. FJ

Rcihard Bridgan

“…The lips of the wise spread knowledge…” – Thanks, Skip, for articulating so well what I’ve been “brooding” over for the past few weeks. Shalom, shalom.

Lynnet

Powerful insights that ring true to my aged heart. Thank you. Staying on the journey is what counts, certainly not having answers but openness to grow onward till the end.

Jerry and Lisa

VERY RELEVANT AND VALUABLE OBSERVATIONS AND INSIGHTS! Hey Skip – what about doing each one of these as a “Today’s Word” midrash?

Here seems to be some simple clues and guidelines regarding “WHO IS WISE” according to YHWH’s word, which are also suggestive that He would be highly likely to then say your list of 8 things you have observed are in keeping with His wisdom:

Today’s verse:

“WHO IS WISE? Let him observe these things, and CONSIDER ADONAI’S LOVINGKINDESS.” [Psa_107:43]

Other “WHO IS WISE” verses:

“WHO IS WISE? Let him discern these things. Who is intelligent? Let him know them. For THE WAYS OF ADONIA ARE STRAIGHT, AND THE JUST WALK IN THEM, but the wicked stumble in them.” [Hos 14:10]

“WHO IS WISE and understanding among you? By His GOOD CONDUCT let him show his deeds in THE GENTLENESS OF WISDOM. [Jas 3:13]

So…..WHO IS WISE?

He who considers Adonai’s LOVINGKINDNESS, walks in the STRAIGHT WAYS of Adonai, and shows his deeds by GOOD CONDUCT and GENTLENESS. I think, if followed, your 8 observations would enable one to live by these few characteristics of WHO IS WISE. It is the one who possesses these inward qualities and displays them through one’s attitudes, words, actions, and interactions.

#6 is most thought provoking to me right now and may help me be more wise:

“What I have learned is that force is of absolutely no value in this process. Forceful argument, forced rules, force of will—none really work. The only road someone will eventually follow is the one that makes them feel safe. That seems to be our job: to make it safe to ask and discover, safe to be ourselves right where we are right now. But the answers I have uncovered are not your answers. They can’t become your answers until you have discovered them within your own question(s). Fortunately, human being(s) a(re) more alike than they are different when it comes to things like pain, worry, sorrow, joy, delight and hope. Maybe making someone feel safe is much more about emotional connection than it is about theological reasoning.”

Though I think there may be a lot of truth in this, I also think that YHWH’s approach to His ways with us often involves a combination of “forcefulness” and “safety”, making us all feel very much unsettled and unsafe at times, while also at some point offering a way of escape, deliverance, hope, validation, direction, and comfort. In parenting that happens with children, and in the discipline of our heavenly Father that happens with us. Somehow, He works both together to influence us to change and grow, and I think we must do the same with others in ways that are permitted by and for which there are examples in the Scriptures. Throughout His Word and in our own experiences we have seen Him, His messengers and servants, including Messiah, the apostles and the prophets, the Ruach, and the Word, all of these, both threatening and unsettling in their apostolic and prophetic nature and function, as well as grounding and comforting in their teaching and pastoral nature and functioning.

Also, emotional connection is vital, but so is theological reasoning.

Again, as in all of these matters, I think it is not one or the other, but both. This, I believe, is the way of “WHO IS WISE”!

Thanks, Skip. Very good food for thought!

Jerry and Lisa

Yes, at times a very forceful “confrontation”. What about Ananias and Sapphira who were struck dead, “And great fear came over the whole community and all who heard these things.”

And Isn’t it always about “repentance” (teshuvah – ever turning away from and toward) and that it’s just a matter of the intensity or degree or nature of the “force” that He has to use? The greatest measure of chesed possible and least measure of severity necessary to accomplish the greatest response of loving obedience?

You write, “Forceful argument, forced rules, force of will—none really work.”

I could be wrong but that seems to be a somewhat humanistic, Christianized view of His nature and ways, like seeing as being a “milk toast Jesus nice guy”. Many like the idea of His “force” against evil, as in His justice against the wicked or His vengeance to vindicate the righteous, or for good, as in miracle power, but not when used “against” US to accomplish His will. We can tend to just want to think of Him as always the “gentleman” as though He’s subject to our will and we permit Him to change us when we are good and ready.

Let’s break it down:
– take “forceful argument” – that works – i.e. Messiah, the apostles, the prophets?
Let’s re-look at the definition:
force·ful
ˈfôrsfəl/
adjective
adjective: forceful
(especially of a person or argument) strong and assertive; vigorous and powerful
synonyms: dynamic, energetic, assertive, authoritative, vigorous, powerful, strong, pushy, driving, determined, insistent, commanding, dominant, domineering; informalbossy, in-your-face, go-ahead, feisty
“a forceful personality”
cogent, convincing, compelling, strong, powerful, potent, weighty, impactful, effective, well founded, telling, persuasive, irresistible, eloquent, coherent
“a forceful argument”

– take “forced rules” – that works – i.e. Torah? If we don’t obey, there can be consequences; and how will He eventually get every knee to bow? You don’t think in some ways force is part of that? He’s gotten me to humble myself through physically afflicting me until I was essentially coerced through physical pain to surrender more to Him before He miraculously healed me.
Let’s re-look at the definition:
forced
fôrst/
adjective
adjective: forced
obtained or imposed by coercion or physical power.
synonyms: enforced, forcible, compulsory, obligatory, mandatory, involuntary, imposed, required, stipulated, dictated, ordained, prescribed

– take “force of will” – that works – He doesn’t absolutely control our will but He does work with force to conform it to His will. “For the One working in you is God—both to will and to work for His good pleasure.” [Php 2:13]
Let’s re-look at the definition:
force
fôrs/
noun
noun: force
1. strength or energy as an attribute of physical action or movement.
“he was thrown backward by the force of the explosion”
synonyms: strength, power, energy, might, effort, exertion; impact, pressure, weight, impetus
“he pushed with all his force”
antonyms: weakness
a person or thing regarded as exerting power or influence.
plural noun: forces
“he might still be a force for peace and unity”
synonyms: agency, power, influence, instrument, vehicle, means
“a force for good”
2. coercion or compulsion, especially with the use or threat of violence.
synonyms: coercion, compulsion, constraint, duress, oppression, harassment, intimidation,

And is not even the adversary, HaSatan, a member of His council whom He uses for His own great purposes, allowing him to test and try the hearts of men that He might ultimately humble every man until He has accomplished His purposes and is ultimately esteemed above all?

YHWH will display both His kindness and severity to accomplish His will and purposes. “Notice then the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell; but God’s kindness toward you…” [Rom 11:22]

And if we’re just kind, many people may like us and more often agree with us, but if we’re severe we may wield His sword of truth with force that results in division, opposition, persecution, and even martyrdom. Will we eat His body and drink His blood in this way? We must, if we are to truly be His disciples by continuing to learn obedience through sharing in the fellowship of His sufferings.

I could go on, but that’s more than enough for now, I’m sure.

Thanks for you reply, Skip. Shalom blessings and His anointing and favor on you in Manila for the forceful advancing of His kingdom by the power and might of the Ruach HaKodesh even with lovingkindness, good conduct, and the gentleness of WISDOM!

Laurita Hayes

“Forcefulness” and “safety”. Force only works if there is trust. I think safety, at least how I am reading Skip, is not about warm fuzzies, per se, but about trust.

Two fathers, two children. Identical reactions to discipline for their particular child that is out of line. Identical language; identical use of disciplinary force. One child ‘gets it’ and the discipline is effective. The other child might as well have been beaten into the ground, but there is a part of that child that is still rebellious and unchanged. Difference: child A trusted his parent; child B did not.

Substitute the word “trust” for the word “safety”. We don’t understand either word well on this planet. If we did, none of us would ever stray from our Father’s commands, now would we?

I think you are right about linking reasoning and emotion together. The brain itself does this, but according to science (read the book Descartes Error) the emotions provide the substrate for reasoning; not the other way around. We need both, but without emotion, reasoning is never going to be able to effect actual choice, which is what we have to do to obey. Emotion, in this context, is definitely going to be the chicken, and reason the egg.

Thanks for weighing in with balance.

Jerry and Lisa

“The fear of Adonai is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and discipline.” [Pro 1:7]

There’s some emotion right there in child A, and maybe even some very intense emotion, and not necessarily any trust, per se. Maybe just the emotion of fear associated with some knowledge, understanding, and wisdom that it is better to obey than be rebellious (regardless of which is the chicken and which is the egg), and the fear of Adonai (not necessarily just “reverence”, which may be just some religious cognitive ascent of His greatness), but maybe actually being emotionally afraid, forced” the surrender. And maybe the trust comes afterward, when YHWH proves that surrendering to Him is best in the good results it produces. Eventually, even child B will surrender. I guaran-dang-tee ya. Agree, however, that it seems likely that the more He proves Himself trustworthy and the more one learns to trust Him, the less forceful He likely needs to be, though it may depend on many factors, plus the fact that His ways are sometimes quite unpredictable, beyond our understanding and reason, and sometimes seemingly quite unfair and even unnecessarily severe.

Pam wingo

Perfect example of what it is to come to the end of oneself. Great thoughts of what it takes for complete surrender I so desire that state of being, still working on that, but as I do it gets so much sweeter even in the pain. Thanks Skip.

Marion S

Thank you skip
Especially about the crying
It is good
I so appreciate your transparency
I have never read the comments before, but I did think”midrash”
Continue

David Hankins

Just gonna add my, yep! Thanks Skip for speaking your heart. As I read the comments, it seems we are kindred souls. Shalom

Kim

Thank you for articulating what is in my heart!! There is much freedom in your words to become aware of YEHOVAH in every aspect of life, however big or small, complicated or simple. Life is what HE has given us emotions included… I am crying now because your words have brought some of my deepest feelings to light
Thank you for your willingness to be transparent!

Vuyelwa Mantyi

My approach to the Bible is becoming more like an approach to literature rather than a effort to make the text into a systematic theology.

I had this same exact thought at the beginning on the Torah reading cycle I’m on.

Thank you for the whole post.

Luzette

I thought that Rabbi Sacks’ comments on this week’s Torah portion fits in so well with the TW forum:

“.. a safe space is not one in which you silence dissenting views. To the contrary: it is one in which you give a respectful hearing to views opposed to your own, knowing that your views too will be listened to respectfully. That is academic freedom, and it is essential to a free society.[5] As George Orwell said, “If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
…Heaven, in short, is not a safe space in the current meaning of the phrase. To the contrary: God loves those who argue with Him – so it seems from Tanakh.
…….In Judaism there is something holy about argument.
Why so? First, because only God can see the totality of truth. For us, mere mortals who can see only fragments of the truth at any one time, there is an irreducible multiplicity of perspectives. We see reality now one way, now another. The Torah provides us with a dramatic example in its first two chapters, which give us two creation accounts, both true, from different vantage points. The different voices of priest and prophet, Hillel and Shammai, philosopher and mystic, historian and poet, each capture something essential about the spiritual life. Even within a single genre, the sages noted that “No two prophets prophesy in the same style.”[10] Torah is a conversation scored for many voices.

Second, because justice presupposes the principle that in Roman law is called audi alteram partem, “hear the other side.” That is why God wants an Abraham, a Moses, a Jeremiah and a Job to challenge Him, sometimes to plead for mercy or, as in the case of Moses at the end of this week’s parsha, to urge Him to act swiftly in defence of His people.[11] Both the case for the prosecution and the defence must be heard if justice is to be done and seen to be done.

The pursuit of truth and justice require the freedom to disagree. The Netziv argued that it was the prohibition of disagreement that was the sin of the builders of Babel.[12] What we need, therefore, is not “safe spaces” but rather, civility, that is to say, giving a respectful hearing to views with which we disagree. In one of its loveliest passages the Talmud tells us that the views of the school of Hillel became law “because they were pleasant and did not take offence, and because they taught the views of their opponents as well as their own, indeed they taught the views of their opponents before their own.”[13]
And where do we learn this from? From God Himself, who chose as His prophets people who were prepared to argue with Heaven for the sake of Heaven in the name of justice and truth.

When you learn to listen to views different from your own, realising that they are not threatening but enlarging, then you have discovered the life-changing idea of argument for the sake of heaven. ” – Rabbi Jonathan Sacks

Seeker

Well said Luzette. A very good principle to apply in all walks of life.