Four Chicken, Four Cheese
They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 1 Timothy 3:9 ESV
Mystery – On my last trip to El Salvador, I received a lesson in theology at the local restaurant. Keith (who accompanied me on the trip) and I decided to have enchiladas. The menu offered three choices. Four enchiladas with cheese. Four enchiladas with beef. Four enchiladas with chicken. We told the waiter that we wanted two enchiladas with cheese and two with chicken. He said “No, this is not possible. The menu says four of one kind.” After a minute of discussion, we determined that the waiter’s position was immutable. No alterations were acceptable. So, we ordered four cheese enchiladas on one plate and four chicken enchiladas on another plate and after we were served and the waiter left, we simply traded two each. Problem solved.
As I reflected on this comical situation, I realized that many of us express a version of enchilada theology. It is rigidly conformed to the denominational menu or the church’s statement of faith. It simply can’t be changed even if it doesn’t make any sense. Jacques Ellul noted something important about the shift in perspective that occurred when the Church adopted a Greek paradigm and abandoned the Hebraic worldview.
“Finally, the mysterious powers of the world are definitively exorcized, eliminated, and vanquished. This is an essential theme. . . . In this world, then, there is no longer anything supernatural. There is no longer anything mysterious, no longer any world beyond. . . . The Christian world is wholly secular. There are in it no particularly sacred times or places, precisely because God is absolutely Wholly Other and nothing in the world comes close to him or can be the bearer of value, meaning, energy or even order. The only new energy that Christianity recognizes is the potential presence of God by the Holy Spirit. But the Spirit, too, is incomprehensible, inaccessible and unexploitable.”[1]
When Paul writes to Timothy about the “mystery of the faith,” he does not suggest that faith is like the enchilada menu. Some things are fuzzy and flexible. Some things need to be held loosely. Mysterion means that some things are still secret. The desire for conformity and certainty often leads theologians to formulate rigid menus rather than adopt a fluid view of the Scriptures. For example, some theologians claim that because God is morally good, He cannot be the author of anything evil. But Isaiah contains statements to the contrary. Isaiah suggests that it is possible to order two chicken and two cheese. And this isn’t the only mystery of the faith. Some things just can’t be contained in a nice neat box.
Perhaps you need to reconsider the inflexibility of your theological menu. Perhaps you need to ask if it’s possible to order two of each from your statement of faith. Perhaps God also laughed when the waiter said, “No, it has to be just like the menu says.”
Topical Index: mystery, conformity, 1 Timothy 3:9
I love to read illustrations with humor, as they are more easily remembered. I am wondering what kind of look was on the waiter’s face if he returned, and noticed the solution you’d employed!
This is a good parable of the kind of doctrinal positions so many people cannot see beyond. And yet, I am hopeful that when they experience the kindness of God, in response to their cry for help, they will understand that He acts in many ways that may not fit the ‘official doctrine.’
This morning, I saw this quote: “Why does the Torah begin with the letter Bet rather than the letter Aleph? To teach us that we don’t know the first thing about the Torah.”
Blessings to all in this Season of Joy! 🙂
As Ellul noted: “There is no longer anything mysterious, no longer any world beyond. . . . The Christian world is wholly secular.” Isn’t this another level of
“replacement” theology? One is the replacing Israel with the church and this is replacing the spiritual with the secular. In fact, one could go as far as saying that the latter is the more important of the two and the former is just a part of this pattern of replacing what YWHW has made or said with something the enemy or the world or flesh has contrived. Because if there is no spiritual aspect to this life in Israel it matters little if Israel is replaced by the church or not, as both would be on the same plane of carnality. Perhaps when the “church” compares itself to Israel and becomes puffed up believing that they are in a superior position for having received and not rejected Messiah, they are comparing themselves to the carnal and not the spiritual Israel (of whom many Jews in the time of Yeshua & the Apostles did believe into Messiah, just as many do so to this day). So we who purport to be grafted into Israel MUST be a spiritual people, as the Apostle Shaul argues in all of the 8th chapter of Romans and in particular verse 14: “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, THEY are the sons of God.”
(my emphasis in capital letters)
Just a thought, but perhaps I should run this new revelation (to me) by my wife-who is off to the hairdresser to become more beautiful (is that possible?) before I post this and be found to be in error! O well, the nice thing about being in a cyber community is that when you are stoned you feel no physical pain and I doubt that even the most fanatical among us would travel all the way to Jamaica to cast the first stone-unless they waited till the winter months and could combine it with some fun in the sun vacation time! So here goes…….
Nowhere does Scripture teach Gentiles who are in Christ ever to clothe themselves in Torah.
Gentile believers are not grafted into Israel, we’re grafted into Christ. He is The Root from Whom we receive life, not from Israel.
Christ created a NEW PRIESTHOOD, a ROYAL Priesthood.
“by abolishing IN HIS FLESH the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself ONE NEW MAN out of the two, thus making peace, and in this ONE BODY to reconcile both of them to God THROUGH THE CROSS, by which he put to death their hostility.” (Eph. 2)
The guilt of the Jew, making him no better than the gentile, wasn’t fully demonstrated until Paul. (Acts 13:46)
“For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.” (Rom. 11)
In a kingdom there is a hierarchy, in the body only the head rules.
Christ is The King of Israel and The Head of the body, but that doesn’t make the body a part of Israel, or replace Israel. There is no reason to confuse the two.
Just as Christ was before the world, the body chosen before the world, — Eph. 1:4 ‘According as he hath chosen us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love’.
[AND I add, that was prior to the formation of the nation of Israel or even Judaism. Genesis]
Being ‘heirs together with Israel’ Or ‘Commonwealth of Israel’ doesn’t make us Israel, only co-beneficiaries with them.
Today I went looking for the ‘why’ of the constant attack on the church. I found this answer:
http://www.blogos.org/gotquestions/hebrew-roots-movement.html
——————————————————————————–
And I will say it is fun and interesting to learn Jewish things, but God loves me for who I am.
He also speaks to me TODAY from His Word, even if I know nothing of what it meant to people who first heard it. I’m hearing it now and it fills my life today, and has power to change me today, or comfort, or give hope…etc.
In a kingdom there is a hierarchy, in the body only the head rules.
Christ is The King of Israel and The Head of the body, but that doesn’t make the body a part of Israel. There is simply no reason to make one part of the other.
Just as Christ was before the world, we have the body was chosen before the world, — [Eph 1:4] ‘According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love’. And prior to the formation of the nation of Israel or even Judaism. (Genesis)
Being ‘heirs together with Israel’ or ‘Commonwealth of Israel’ doesn’t make us Israel, only co-beneficiaries with them.
It is God Himself who has created a world of people with different cultures, languages and traditions. God is glorified when we accept one another in love and come together in unity as “one” in Christ Jesus. It’s important to understand that there is no superiority in being born Jewish or Gentile. We who are followers of Christ, comprised of many different cultures and lifestyles, are all of value and greatly loved because we’ve entered into the family of God.
Hi Dorothy,
I read the article that you posted above and at a loss of words to express how deeply I’m offended by what this author wrote. To call the hebrew roots movement a “hater” of the church and thereby imply that same hatred toward the Messiah is a demonstration of the gross misunderstanding of what is occuring in the (by the way) church.
The author wrote, “The mistake of the Hebrew Roots Movement is the same mistake of the Judaizers. They fail to understand that Jesus fulfilled the Law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23-25; Ephesians 2:15). In place of the Old Testament law, we are under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39). If we obey those two commands, we will be fulfilling all that Christ requires of us: “All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:40).”
What does it mean to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul and mind? You don’t have far to look, it’s in the “beginning” of the revealed word of God, Duet. 5-6. Does that save us, has it ever saved anyone? No, but it shows us what love looks like according to God. Remember to whom Yeshua was speaking when he said these words, they would have understood it in exactly these terms. I understand your inability (at the moment) to see that there remains a place for the law among the people of God, so I won’t speak to you in those terms, it’ll only add fuel to the fire. However, I will say this; Yeshua spoke to the people of that time in “sometimes” a very critical fashion. He didn’t do so because He hated them but because He loved them and He understood the destruction they were facing because of their sins. On the other hand I would imagine that were one to ask one of the men who were on the recieving end of Yeshua’s rebukes, how he thought Yeshua felt about Israel and the existing priesthood, he would probably describe it much like this author describe the hebraic movement. He hates us!!
This author makes many assumptions, though it may be said that there are elements that would fit some of the descriptions, one of them being that we strive to become “jewish”. The movement as I understand it is termed “hebraic” not jewish. It’s to bad that this author deems it nessesary to distance those of jewish descent from christianity along with anyone else who holds the law of God and therefore God Himself in high esteem.
I did not say I like the term “haters”, –I don’t either.
I was hoping the info could be read without hurt feelings as it has been said here before that the old saying “say something nice or nothing at all” doesn’t apply here on this blog, that we are free to express our opinions, even if they are strong.
Well, tell me what you think of what I say, minus what the article says. I think I wrote more than he did.
At the moment, I’ll keep my peace. I hope that others weigh in on this as well.
I didn’t say that what this author wrote hurt my feelings, he doesn’t. I’m offended because he speaks supposedly for “the church” and is offensive to a number of believers in the Messiah that hold to a form of worship far more “biblical” than he apparently favors. His hypocrisy is evident to most anyone who dooesn’t hold to his form of “believism.”
By the way, isn’t that exactly what Yeshua decried concerning the pharisees of His time?
sidenote; just in case you’re wondering. What you wrote didn’t offend me, it’s the “understanding” that you wrote it with that I “vehemently” disagree with. I’m always ready to discuss these things with an open heart.
O well, now nobody will remember to go to Jamaica to stone Michael, –that is in case anyone disagreed with him as he feared earlier. So he can finally relax.
There’s no way I will turn on MY computer for at least 48 more hours
Please, Dorothy,what do you do with Paul’s statement that Gentiles are grafted into the “commonwealth of Israel”? Are you simply going to ignore the text because it doesn’t say what you want it to say? This isn’t the only place where it is clear that Gentiles and part of the people of God called Israel, but even if it were the only verse, are you ready to say that Paul was wrong?
Dorothy,
Why do you think YHWH gave the Torah? And why does Christianity kick so hard against it? I was taught and for many years believed like a “good” little sheep, that the Law was abolished and I now see clearly the results of it. Strife, hatred, lack of natural affection in families, divorce, adultery, suicide, theft, murder, addictions of every kind, injustice, sexual sin to the extreme (worship as at Baal Peor!), gluttony…the list goes on…and I am NOT talking about those who are not in church. There seems to be no distinguishing any more…doing away with Torah has blurred the lines…the fences are torn down.
If you consider the characteristics listed above to be Biblical and excusable because of grace, that is the very reason that caused me to leave the nominal traditional church. I have even recently heard one renowned preacher from TX talk about how the 10 commandments are so desperately needed to recover American dignity and save her…I guess that means all except #4. THAT struck me as so hypocritical.
WHAT??? And one wonders why people are leaving Christianity for something more congruent! I am not talking Judaism, Messianic Christianity…I am talking about pure love for Christ..enough to admit the insanity needs to stop and we need to do something different…like grow up in and through obedience as much as possible.
I hope you are looking for answers with us and not looking to convert/save others to your truth. May His Face shine on you Dorothy and may His Word light your path.
Every mainline denomination has taught replacement theology for the last 100 years or more. In order to justify the clear separation between Christian practice and ritual and Jewish (1st Century) practice and ritual, the Church needed a way to re-identify itself as NOT Jewish. This process began within 150 years of Yeshua (with many of the early Church fathers and Marcion). As a result, the Church was able to move away from its Jewish origin by creating a new religion.
ALL OF THIS IS WELL DOCUMENTED by many world famous scholars. You might not like it, but you can’t claim it didn’t happen. I have on many occasions cited these people and written about their work.
Replacement theology is a part of most Christians thinking, not because it is true but because they were taught it and they never actually investigated its origins. Today there is no excuse since volumes of material are available on the internet.
So, Dorothy, before you claim that the Gentiles are not part of Israel and are not under the Torah, do some research. I know your OPINION, but opinion doesn’t count here unless you wish to tell us your personal experience. We are after what really happened and why.
Hi Dorothy (and others) Here are a few of my thoughts…
I read the link article as well as the answer to “What is the Hebrew Roots movement?” I am always intrigued by the notion that somehow Jesus/Yeshua would keep the Law perfectly so He could end it. That has never made sense to me. Can anybody think of something that would be similar to that? Be totally faithful to my wife so I could divorce her??? Then there is the idea that by “fulfilling the Law” it was finished. The idea of paying off a mortgage is mentioned. We are supposed to celebrate the fact that the mortgage is “fulfilled”. A more obvious example would be fulfilling the requirements of a professional degree. Doctors and engineers, to name but two, spend many years so that they can “fulfill the degree requirements”. Does that mean the content is somehow now to be discarded? Now that you have passed all the tests, kindly throw out everything you have learned? No of course not. They finish school but now APPLY what they have learned. So it is with Torah I believe. Look up Romans 3:13 “It is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified”.
The article mentions Romans 14:5 as support for the idea that the day of Sabbath is totally up to the individual. But if we read the context of Romans 14 we notice Paul first talks about vegetarians versus omnivores. In verse 6 he talks about “he who eats” and “he who does not eat”. The context is clearly fasting for verse 5 and 6. I really have difficulty with verses stripped of their obvious context.
The “haters” article mentions that “in place of the Old Testament Law” we now have the Law of Christ which is to love the Lord your God… as well as love your neighbor. The reference is to Matthew 22:37-39. Does the author not realize that Yeshua is quoting directly from Deuteronomy 6:5 and Leviticus 19:18? He is not inventing anything new or different, rather reminding his disciples of what has been the true foundation of the Law all along. “All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments”. Why would he say that if they were revoked?
The article consistently refers to Law as “bondage”. By Jesus death the author claimed the Law was finished and ended. Yet obviously some laws continue. The ten commandments (or at least 9 of them…. We are often told to forget the one that God specifically indicated needed to be “remembered” namely the 4th one). On what basis do any of these commandments continue in effect if we can pick and choose what to follow and what to ignore? If the Highway Traffic Act was annulled you would see chaos on the roads as every driver decided how to act. In this analogy it is not the Traffic act that is ended, it is the string of citations from police that is “nailed to the cross” Yeshua through His Spirit puts his Laws on our hearts. In this analogy it would not be necessary for police to conduct drunk driving sweeps etc. if being a good driver was “written on our hearts”. If every driver actually “loved his neighbor” he would keep the Laws without police enforcement, not make up his own!
Paul answers the question about Law in Romans 3:31. He knew he might be accused of disregarding the Law. “Do we nullify the Law?” “No, we establish the Law!!” What does he mean here if he was intent on proving it had ended…which of course is exactly what James told Paul late if the book of Acts that he was being accused of…preaching against Moses. Of course Paul wasn’t. He was misinterpreted by Jews at that time…and Christian theologians as well over the next two thousand years.
Dorothy in your comments above you mention “by abolishing IN HIS FLESH the law with its commandments….” It is not the Law that was abolished it was the hostility/enmity that arose from interpretations. You mention the guilt of a Jew wasn’t demonstrated until Paul. Read Isaiah and Psalms 14:1-3 for a different slant on this. You mention a couple of metaphors (kingdom and body). There are of course many others. Paul mentions building/Temple, garden/field, servants etc in 1 Corinthians. I’m not sure where you read “the body chosen before the world” in Ephesians 1:4. It is true we are a body but also a Temple, field etc. Paul did reply to the comment made about Jews being no different from Gentiles. In Romans 3:1 he asks if there is any advantage being a Jew. “Great in every respect is his answer…they were given the very oracles of God”. How unfortunate that so many Christians characterize these oracles as being burdens to be discarded at the foot of the cross. Yet John in 1 John 5:3 says “For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are NOT burdensome” Wow!
Thanks for this astute analysis, separating rumor and fiction from real exegesis. I am sure you know Mark Nanos’ work on Romans. Also very revealing when we read in the context of the first century.
Hi Skip. Unfortunately I do not know of Mark Nanos’ work on Romans (although I have just purchased and look forward to his Galatians study thanks to the comments made on this blog) I simply read the Scriptures and try to understand them in context, checking the cross references and then digging for further insights. For example I was informed in a discussion that the term “Bride” only refers to the Church since Israel was the unfaithful wife. This person indicated that Revelation 21 is all about the Church, the bride of the Lamb, not Israel. I did a little study and found at least 33 distinct references in that one chapter to Tanach sources. I recall the only thing I could not find was the actual dimensions of the new Jerusalem. Is it conceivable that a Jewish apostle, raised in synagogue culture, writing to Jews (as per Galatians division of ministry) and who then mentioned so many specific cross-references to the Hebrew Scriptures, never intended any of this to actually apply to the Jews (only the church)??? By the way there are in fact references in Tanach to Israel as being a bride over which God “will rejoice”.
PS Thanks so much for this website and your continuing efforts!!
I have a question that might fit in here. Do any of you think that the worship of Jesus on the cross is at odds with what YHWH had in mind? Where is there ANY example of the sacrifice being worshiped (other than in Revelation where the Lamb is brought up)in scripture. Isn’t it more important to recognize what the sacrifice accomplished than to pay homage to the sacrifice? I’m not sure if this is making sense, but in my own mind it rather explains the pray to the Father, through the Son by the power of the Holy Spirit, and why Jesus could refer to us as brothers and sisters. I do understand that He is fully God and fully man, it just seems to me that we worship the fully God portion as we worship the Father. You hardly ever hear people talking about praying to the Holy Spirit, but many pray to Jesus.
Jill, over the years I have become increasingly uncomfortable with the doctrine of the Trinity, how it plays out in practice. The popularity of The Shack left me concerned about how Father God (in the person of a plump black matron) God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are all laughing together, making meals and spilling the salad etc. I was struck by the very obvious parallels to Chronos, Zeus, Ares etc (or if you prefer Saturn, Jupiter and Mars) to name but a few of the pantheon of Greek/Roman gods/goddesses. The Hebrew God (YHWH) is ONE, not many distinct persons. One will/purpose, one Word and One Spirit! So I made up a little matrix with various functions (like Will, Power/Work, Word, Prayer, etc) then across the top I put God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I put check marks in the columns if the Term (eg Will of God, Will of Father, Will of Son, Will of the Holy Spirit made sense) I ended up with a column with all ticks for the term including God. (eg The will of God, the plan of God, the Power of God, Prayers to God) Things got very interesting for the three columns with titles Father, Son and Spirit. For example in my studies I found prayers are directed only to God, or to Father…not to Son or Spirit! To avoid confusion set aside “Lord” because it is often difficult to know who is involved. Many New Testament verses use Lord even when making quotes of Old testament verses that have LORD….which itself is a substitution for YHWH, the actual name of God that he gave Himself. Are you still with me?
In the New Testament disciples do not pray to the Holy Spirit as I have often heard in churches (“Dear Holy Spirit, come and be with us tonight”) Rather they pray that the Father will send the Holy Spirit to accomplish some specific tasking. Also they do not pray to Jesus/Yeshua. Even He said to pray to the Father (not the Son) but in the name of the Son…through the Son! I found that Jesus is always described in terms of communication/execution of command. “I am the door”, I am the Way”, The “High Priest”, the “Word”, the “Only Path to the Father”, the “Right Arm”. He announces/executes the divine will, He does not author it! He always prays that the Father’s will would be done, not His own…He has no independent will!!! He only does what the Father tells Him. He is the exact representation of the Father, “If you have seen me you have seen the Father” etc. Now consider the Spirit. When the religious leaders attacked the miracles done by Yeshua, He said they had blasphemed against the Holy Spirit. You see the Works of God are announced/communicated by the Son but actually are performed by the Holy Spirit. He does the Work of God. Yeshua is the vine, Father is the Gardiner and the Spirit produces the fruit. One beautiful integrated divine system. Pray to the Father that His will be done, in the name and through the Son, that the Power of the Holy Spirit would be manifested in your life.
We could go on. I am not a theologian…just sharing what has been helpful to me. In a discussion with a friend at Church one time he told me he believed that God the Father had the “dispensation of Law” in the Old Testament, that we needed to focus on Jesus since He revealed the “dispensation of Grace”. I opened my Bible to a random chapter in Mark. There were 16 little F notations in the margin on that one page…I asked my friend if he saw them. Yes of course was his reply, what are they? I told him they were specific references being made by Jesus to Father. I told him that if the Father was not active in the Gospels it was news to Mark. All the gospels are full of references to “doing the Father’s will” etc. One God, one plan! Hope this helps a bit.
PS Think about how difficult the Trinity doctrine is. Now have you ever wondered why in the New Testament there is zero talk/discussion/debate about this topic. Zero. Not even a question!! There was an enormous amount of debate and argument over how to fit Gentile believers into the Kingdom…yet nothing about the triple nature of the deity. Every day they said the Shema….Hear O Israel the Lord thy God is ONE. But no debate about how this can be with Son and Spirit in addition to Father. Is it possible they had NO PROBLEM with the issue…we (The Greeks) have made it a problem and forced a solution.
Thank you so much for your answer HSB. I have been struggling with “Lord” in my prayer life for the very reasons you state above. The trinity has always been confusing to me and I know that God is not the author of confusion. We read the Shema every morning (as translated into English) with my kids before school and then we read from the old and new testament. I believe we are going to celebrate Hanukkah this year (as I told them it is the donut Holiday they are much more receptive). We have in the past gone through the 7 miracles in John and lit a candle each night before Christmas. It is so difficult to try to change many years of confused understanding.
“It is so difficult to try to change many years of confused understanding.”
Hi Jill, I just wanted to say I relate to what you are going through, but be encouraged it is worth the struggle. We are planning to celebrate Hanukkah for our fourth year, and it is finally becoming “ours.” The kids were at best uninterested the first two years (Oh great, now she’s taking Christmas away…) and it really helped to read where Yeshua celebrated Hanukkah (I believe the reference is John chapter 10.) This year my husband actually asked/considered the biblical festivals/moedim when planning his calendar and the kids asked if we were going to put up the sukkah… As we learn a little more each year and see a little more that we really do belong, it does get easier!
A friend of mine is also going through this with her family. In regard to the “trinity” she said “I am beginning to realize they are more One that three…” I am no theologian, but things seem to make a lot more sense when I don’t chop them into pieces (in my mind), but realize they really are One, with one goal, one message, one people etc etc
Just wanted you to know you are not alone and I will pray for you and your family, and will be thinking of you at Hanukkah!
And a big Thank You to Skip for your teaching and all who post here. I have only been a quiet receiver, but a grateful one! Many times your teachings and discussion have helped bring clarity or confirmation/confidence, and you aren’t afraid to “discuss” aspects of faith that I wouldn’t have the guts to discuss with anyone… sometimes yes, they rattle my brain, but in a very good way!
Thank you Tonya for your encouragement. I read the part about “great now she’s taking away Christmas” to my kids as that is pretty much what they are thinking. It is good for them to see that we might be different but that I’m not the only “crazy” mom out there.