An Added Wrinkle
This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you in which I am stirring up your sincere mind by way of reminder, 2 Peter 3:1 NASB
Sincere mind– How often have you heard someone say, “Well, at least he’s sincere.” Or maybe, “What he lacks in understanding he makes up for in sincerity.” In our common use of the word, “sincere” typically suggests a deep commitment, a kind of prized moral virtue that exemplifies someone free of deceit, a genuine person. But it didn’t always mean this, and the fact that the meaning of the word has evolved has exegetical ramifications. In other words, when Peter wrote eilikrinḗs dianoian (translated “sincere mind”) he wasn’t necessarily speaking about anything personal at all.
“The word [sincere] enters the English language in the first third of the sixteenth century, considerably later than its appearance in French. It derived from the Latin word sincerus and first meant exactly what the Latin word means in its literal use—clean, or sound, or pure . . . and serves to remind us that the word in its early use referred primarily not to persons but to things, both material and immaterial [e.g., a sincere wine or sincere doctrine] . . . As used in the early sixteenth century in respect to persons, it is largely metaphorical—a man’s life is sincere in the sense of being sound, or pure, or whole; or consistent in its virtuousness. But it soon came to mean the absence of dissimulation or feigning or pretense.”[1]
So here we have an added wrinkle in our attempts to understand what the ancient authors of the Bible really meant. What is that wrinkle? It’s simply this: our own vocabulary of translation has evolved. Even if we use a translated word that we think captures the original sense of the text, that translation word may no longer retain even its original meaning. The actual Greek meaning of eilikrinḗs, translated “sincere,” is “tested by the light of the sun,” derived as it is from two other Greek words, εἵλη (ἁλέα, ἥλιος) and κρίνω, that is, “warmth of the sun,” and “to test.” Nothing personal at all. And notice something else about this original Greek meaning. It is not an internal, moral condition. It is about public examination.
When the translators picked “sincere” to interpret Peter’s Greek, they inadvertently incorporated a word that never really meant what it means to us today. They picked an English word that they thought best captured the idea of genuine purity, but even this idea has evolved over the centuries. So we are left with a double translation problem, first to figure out how to express the original word and then to figure out how to express the original in a way that does not accidentally include some other evolved meaning. But this is the double problem of all translation, not just biblical. Languages change over time, and working with a language that is more than 2000 years old requires considerably more effort than looking in a contemporary dictionary.
Topical Index: sincere, eilikrinḗs, translation, 2 Peter 3:1
So I ask myself, “What has been gained, or lost, in this study?“ And after some pondering, I say to myself, “I think, time. It’s like looking for a needle in a haystack. Either that, or a dog chasing its tail. I think I’ll just read the rest of 2Pet. 3. Pretty sure I’ll get something of value out of it.”
Ditto on reading this comment. 🙂
Got it.
“…..what kind of people should you be? Live your lives in holiness and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God. In that day the heavens will be dissolved by fire, and the elements will melt in the intense heat. But in keeping with His promise, we look for new heavens and a new earth, where righteousness dwells. Therefore, loved ones, while you are looking for these things, make every effort to be found in shalom, spotless and blameless before Him. [2Pe 3:11-14]
Removing the WRINKLES…..
“Messiah did this so that He might present to Himself His glorious community—not having stain or WRINKLE or any such thing, but in order that she might be holy and blameless.” [Eph 5:27]
I appreciate that Skip used this word to demonstrate how we cannot simply read a text in English and think we know the meaning based on our current understanding of the words we read. We have to do our homework first to discover what the original author was saying to his audience. Every translation changes the original meaning, even when the translator is trying to remain true. And time changes things within the same language! Thanks Skip for helping with our homework and making the texts ‘shine’!
Speaking of lost in the translation. I had wanted to elaborate on why I use the name YeHoVaH. It is Nehemiah Gorden a scholar of ancient biblical texts that has for the last decade been examining ancient manuscripts to find instances of the vowel points used in the name abbreviated to YHVH by scribes. These submitting to the Rabbinical mandate to not make a representation of the name of Elohim. He and his team have now found over 1,000 instances in ancient texts where perhaps mistakenly the scribes added the Vowels to accurately write the full name YeHoVaH our Elohim…it was known by the Rabbis but guarded as sacred and only spoken a few times annually. Until Gorden’s research now qualified its correct representation (in his opinion I suppose). He also now has an interesting explanation of the derivation of Yahweh as a Samaritan deity’s name …https://www.nehemiaswall.com/
It is public knowledge that Nehemiah Gordon denies Yeshua as the Messiah of Israel.
Yeshua said, “…..whoever denies me before men, I will also deny him before my Father who is in heaven.” And, “…..the one who denies me before men will be denied before the angels of God.”
John said, “….Who is the liar, if not the one who denies that Yeshua is the Messiah? This one is the anti-messiah—the one who denies the Father and the son.” And, “No one who denies the son has the Father; the one who acknowledges the son also has the Father.”
I have a grain of salt for anyone who would like one, if you are going to read and consider anything that Nehemia Gordon has to say.
He does not deny him he sayes it has not been “revealed” to him that Yeshua is the Messiah. As if he had blinders on.(a Biblically prophesied condition of jews btw) So you condemn God’s expressed purposes to justify your judments of the man? Perhaps he holds his peace for the sake of maintaining an influence with his people. No need to dismiss his scholarship because his theology is not in alignment with yours at this point in his walk before Yehovah, . At least he uses his name correctly unlike the majority of Christians that proffess Jesus as the Christ. How long might I ask did you Jerry participate in this Heresy before the true identity of Messiah was revealed to you? He is a Kerite Jew who does feed at the trough of Rabbinical uninspired opinions based on the traditions of men. I need a break from the self rightious judments banterred about this table.
Mark, I know you meant to say Nehemia does NOT “feed at the trough…”. And to strengthen your perspective: where would any of us be if we had not sought information from “alternate” sources as we have sought to understand the truth? I’d be trapped somewhere in the Roman Catholicism I was raised in, believing I had no right to read the Bible for myself, living out the Catholic “Oral Torah”. I thank and praise and honor and bless Yehovah for gently taking me step-by-step out of that.
And I want to say to “Jerry and Lisa”, there is an uncalled-for harshness in the comments you are posting. This forum is founded on respectful dialogue and openness to one another’s paradigms. Please take a breath, a step back, and consider that your approach can use some work.
Correct “Neiahmiah is a Kerite Jew who does not feed at the trough of Rabbinical uninspired opinions of men”…That is BTW. the condemnation of Yeshua Messiah of the teachers of his day. Perhaps Neiahmiah is closer to the Messiah than he knows or Jerry thinks for he unlike many about this table dismisses the Mishna and The Talmud and follows Torah alone…
All this reminds me of the words of Art Katz, they where proffered toward the “church” in the early eaghties but are applicable now to much of the “Messianic movment” who having found an important truth yet like so many enthusiastic but immature belivers “have succeed at being right but failed at being real” with that I’ll sign off for a while…
Thank you for sharing Mark. I did not know these facts. As for denying. We cannot deny nor confirm as we weren’t part of that era. What we have could be fables or truths and as we dig deeper into the will of YeHoVah (Sounds like the English Jehovah…) As we understand the depth we will be rooted in the truth… Be guided in peace…
BTW ?
B. (by) T. (the) W. (way)… Yeshua condemned the leaders of Rabbinic Judaism of his day for “teaching the traditions of men as if they where the oracles (words) of God” Math 7:8. That is what “Christianity” has slowly succumbed too after 325 CE. Rabbinic Judaism was codified in the Talmud and Mishna to nearly entirely replace Moses (who saw Yehovah face to face)…Christianity took a long slow march to the left, both are (in my opinion) far out in left field but Rabbinic Judaism is at least in the same ball park as Yeshua (whom I belive is Messiah). Ok now I’m done you hash it out on your own for a while….
Sorry you’re offended. However, the prophets of old, Messiah and his emissaries, and even Skip have spoken more “harshly” than any of these comments you’re calling harsh. Some would say such manner of expression is not harshness, but passion. Some would also say that many Christians have adopted a false virtue of “niceness”, out of a fear of man and in compromise of the truth. I hope you’re negative reaction isn’t just because something important to you is being disagreed with. Nevertheless, I will take your comment, along with one of the grains of salt I would use if considering Nehemia Gordon’s offerings, if you also will take one along with considering the possibility of the truth of my comments, and we can Messiah be the judge.
I am in total congruence with both your comments Leslee. My slightly younger sister is just beginning her bible study walk and it reminds me so much of where I too was 7 years ago. The recovering RCCs of this world need to start slowly, patiently in grade one. This blog did the job and does so for me perfectly. I made a stupid comment early in my ignorance that Skip gently disagreed with and I am now in complete harmony with him on the issue and so many others. An intellectual blow-off response could have lost me. Thanks Skip.
I never claimed to know the Father while I denied the son, and since I have come to know the son, I have never denied him as the Messiah, and I can only attribute that to YHVH being merciful and giving me His unmerited favor, that’s for sure.
Jerry, I’m not offended I am weary of crossing swards with the brethren about things or people we should be considering. You would have , I think enjoyed knowing Art Katz as I had the privilege. He had real issues with the “make nice Christianity ” that felt superior while denying the spirit of truth, that arrives with grace when the true Messiah of Isreal is in the room…Ciao for now
Mark, it was not to you that I expressed sorrow for being offended, though I understand your weariness and wish you shalom. Also, I have very much appreciated Art Katz’s book, Apostolic Foundations, having read it numerous times, as well as many of his audio messages on his website, though I would have appreciated even more knowing him more personally.
Or a Semitic pronunciation of Jove (Jupiter) to whom a temple was built by the Samaritans on Mt Gerizim. Nehemia Gordon’s work has been diligent and fascinating as he finds “all the missing pieces” so we can accurately connect the dots.
Mark…thank you for directing us to this fascinating discussion, filled with historical information. I just listened to it and plan to listen again…perhaps several more times. There’s a lot to digest, but definitely worth it.
It seems that the translators would take these changes into consideration and choose a word that more accurately expresses the meaning now. Eternal is one of those words that did not mean unending the way we think of today. Aion and aionas did not mean unending or forever as we think of today.
I have read some of Nehemiah Gordon’s work. He has a great book with a Methodist pastor on The Lord’s Prayer. We need more interfaith dialogue and intra as well. Nehemiah’s love for YeHoVah is contagious. I haven’t listened to him in person but enjoyed some online presentations.
I ran across an interesting linguistic principle a few years ago. It was termed deconstruction. It means giving words different definitions. For instance, if four different people each give a specific word their own definition, that word ceases to have meaning. This happens with different religions and denominations or even secular businesses, when the same words are used but are assigned different meanings by each group. Sometimes it is done innocently, but can be intentionally deceptive. In order for communication to be effective, we must have clear understanding of words and their meaning and how they are used. Language does evolve over time, but there is something at work now that is attempting to destroy effective communication. Call it relativity, evolution, progress, whatever – when communication ceases, community ceases. This has made, “Could you define what you mean by that?” part of my daily verbal interaction. You would be amazed what a difference it makes.
Thank you Skip, for keeping us on our toes!
Thanks for reminding me that asking to define what one means need be part of our daily verbal communications. Jordan Peterson addresses that issue in many of his interviews showing how language changes over time and our naivety in supporting our modern opinions/narratives by referring to historical facts that were stated in a much different context.
You are absolutely correct about needing to ask (some) others to define words they use. Just as important is defining the words you use (one uses), so that the other does not misconstrue your (one’s) words.
But, I’m certain that some camps redefine words to be intentionally deceptive, and, perhaps worse, some take words another uses and applies their own meanings to them in attempts to mischaracterize or demean the other (“gotcha!”). I’ve had this happen to me a fair amount, even though I try to be careful how I frame and phrase things.
It’s a minefield out there!
Words can be misconstrued and words can be used as weapons. Both with devastating consequences. Words can diminish another person, BUT more importantly, words can be used to diminish the Good News. No
“taking” or misapplying on my part. Listen and learn.
“…Listen and learn.”
Well, since you phrased this in such an inviting manner, how could I not want to ‘listen and learn’ from you?
I looked at some more translations online and it seems some of them have attempted to more accurately reflect sincere as compared to the original. I can say this creates some cognitive dissonance. And I wonder how we can ever really capture what the original words meant. And maybe we have to consider the concepts or ideas behind the actual words. Of course. But this is something that has been quite disconcerting to me. Really, it creates quite a lot of anxiety at times.
What matters most here is not so much the etymological evolution of the English word sincere, but the actual meaning of the adjective eilikrinē in the context of 2 Peter 3:1 in its historical setting. Though “sincere” works here, according to one of our current definitions (pure, unadulterated), I prefer “pure” as the translation—agreeing with this TW insofar as “sincere” can be ambiguous nowadays.
BDAG states, the etym[ological] ‘judge in the light of the sun’ is dubious, which is essentially the meaning provided in this TW (“’warmth of the sun,’ and ‘to test’”). We know that a compound word is not necessarily the sum of its parts: this + that does not necessarily = thisthat.
According to BDAG the Greek word eilikrinē is found in Xenophon, Plato, etc., as well as Philo and Josephus, and means unmixed, unalloyed, unadulterated in those works. In 2 Peter 3:1 this adjective modifies dianoia, “mind”. It is found only twice in the NT, the other verse being Philippians 1:10: “so that you may be eilikrinē and blameless”.
The noun form, eilikrineia (“purity”, “sincerity”) is found thrice in the NT: 1 Corinthians 5:8 (“with unleavened bread of eilikrineia and truth”), 2 Corinthians 1:12 (“with integrity and eilikrineia from God”), and 2 Corinthians 2:17 (“rather as out of/from eilikrineia”).
In any case, this TW points out the need to go to the original language first and foremost.
What is puzzling to me is I noticed in the discussion about the word hell that this didn’t seem to be a problem for Skip or others even though Yeshua would never have said this word. But here we are discussing what the word sincere means. Couldn’t sincerity be “pure” in some sense? I think so. But is the Valley of Hinnom translated as hell? Hell no! Sorry, I couldn’t resist. 🙂
Skip, Please take this off if offensive.
😉
I was just listening to some music, playing an old record by the band Golden Earring, and a song came on reminding me of this comment and discussion (“Tons of Time”):
Let me add another wrinkle. Most American’s understand that freedom to speak one’s mind implies that we must tolerate an unfortunate dose of alternate viewpoints, regardless of the ignorance, baseness, and unhinged narcissism which pours forth from one’s lips or fingertips. Oh, the joys of democracy! But what is sad is that we have to tolerate such nonsense in the body of Messiah. I commend Skip for being tolerant on this blog, much more tolerant than I would be. He reflects true character; he rarely, if ever, takes aim at a hostile personal comment. Sometimes mudslinging needs no comment. It speaks for itself.
It is one thing to offer an alternate point of view or even disagree with gracefulness and tact. It is quite another thing to offer bold or brash personal attacks which insinuate that another’s writing is simply a waste of time to read (“looking for a needle in a haystack”, “chasing a dog’s tail”). THAT type of behavior is wrong! It demands an apology! What is worse, when confronted by a brother or sister about the forked tongue, the objector simply takes up the mantle of “I’m a prophet, like Messiah.” At least Yeshua’s works testified to his authority. For self-proclaimed prophets, their works testify to their authority also, just not the way they presume. Narcissistic self-proclaimed prophets are loose cannons, leaving destruction in their wake. That is NOT to say that there isn’t a time and place for legitimate debate and disagreement.
Craig, I commend your approach. You bring depth and personal research to the table. You challenge Skip’s interpretation, but without all the personal innuendos, sarcasm, and double entendres. I commend HOW you disagree. Maybe others will be inspired by your personal character. Laurita also inspires me with her ability to navigate respectful disagreement. Laurita, your grace with speech is an inspiration.
For those who believe that Nehemiah Gordon is a scholar, please direct me to his credentials, other than a two year master’s degree. I’m greatly interested in reading his doctoral thesis. Would someone please point me to it? Also, please direct me to ONE peer reviewed article that he has written. How about just one scholarly journal that he has been published in? He was born and raised in America with English as his first language. Where did he get his degree in linguistics from? Nowhere. He has a masters in Biblical Studies! For cryin’ out loud, I have a master’s degree in Biblical Studies. Big deal [not!]. Now, that is not to say that he doesn’t have some cogent insights. I just find much of his material unsupported by the data. Please do some research on his work: https://irp-cdn.multiscreensite.com/afc54bfe/files/uploaded/thenatzariyeshuavskairite.pdf
https://www.torahresource.com/pdf-articles/why-nehemiah-gordon-is-wrong-about-the-tetragrammaton.pdf
Hum?! Does PhD always mean “better.” That would rule out almost ALL the intellectual contributions of the Western (and Eastern) world. Maybe we need to evaluate the IDEAS rather than the person. Just saying.
I agree. Certainly titles can be deceiving. Ph.D. doesn’t necessarily mean “better.” It does mean, however, that one has spent a great deal more time in research and effort earned toward the degree. It also means one’s work has been peer reviewed. My main concern with certain HRM celebrities is that appellations such as “scholar” often precede the name as a means to enhance the reputation and bolster the claims that the supposed scholar espouses, without having a grasp of the whole picture, especially the bogus claims or faulty research that is presented as “scholarly.” You’re also right in that it is much better to evaluate ideas rather than the person. But oftentimes certain individuals become household names that carry a certain aura of authenticity, like Constantine. And we ALL throw him under the bus!
I know a man who is a pastor who spent a lot of time and his church members money pursuing his PhD. In the end after he had attained it he said something rather eye-opening to my husband and I while visiting our home. He said, “After all the money and time I spent on getting my PhD and I still don’t know how to love people.” He was rather proud of his education and yet stated this.
I agree that perhaps the ideas bear evaluating rather than the person.
So-called higher educations are really not all they are touted to be. Scripture says that knowledge puffs up. Jesus also said something about faith as simple as a child. Children don’t have PhD’s.
Just sayin ‘-)
“Children don’t have PhD’s.” Absolutely. That’s why little Miky does not teach at the University and does not have websites to collect money for his childish bubbling. Just saying. ;-P
Is the sheva a vowel? My understanding is that it isn’t.
Yes, the sheva is a vowel. Maybe this will help: https://www.torahresource.com/Hebrew%20MP3/ShevaRules.pdf
I was wondering if you could give your grammatical resource you used for your critique and also the credentials of your essay critique. who is this person? What is his background?
I just want to ask one more question about the tetragrammaton. The article says that the chiriq yod should be used but the patach is used instead but couldn’t that be to conceal the name of YeHoVaH as well? I am trying to follow the reasoning.
Actually Daniel you write a thesis for a Master’s degree and a dissertation for your Doctorate. And a doctorate degree may only be one more year than a master’s, sometimes two.
In some contexts, the word “thesis” or a cognate is used for part of a bachelor’s or master’s course, while “dissertation” is normally applied to a doctorate, while in other contexts, the reverse is true. The term graduate thesis is sometimes used to refer to both master’s theses and doctoral dissertations. –Wikipedia
I’ve seen a few negative comments on people that I find sad. If someone wants to write a book about their faith and share their journey, why be so negative? I respect those scholars and other talented people to the degree they deserve my respect. But as a famous author said, you don’t have to have a Ph.D to understand kindness, compassion, love ….I think God would agree.
@Marsha S “don’t have to have a Ph.D to understand kindness, compassion, love …” Yes, Marsha, you do not. You also do not have to know how to read and to write in order to understand love and compassion, does it mean we can put the school dropouts to teach our children? Or you would prefer an expert to teach your child? Shalom!
An Added Wrinkle. November 12, 2018.
Every word is important! We can be so easily influenced by the wrong ideas being that we have been deceived about so many things for so many years. Most people don’t study, don’t ask questions. They just assume that what they have been taught is the truth. That close enough is good enough. We really miss out on so much when we don’t do proper research. Not speaking Hebrew is a disadvantage but that’s why it’s great to have people like Skip Moen and David Fohrman doing the research for us. There are others too like Nehemiah Gordon who contribute
greatly to our understanding. I am not saying anyone is right about everything but I have benefited from a lot of their talks.
On a positive note, I found out relatively recently why linen and wool are not supposed to be mixed together. It was one of those questions I had had as to why. The energy flow of both go in opposite directions so they cancel each other out. ‘ Life giving linen study’ talks about this. Our bodies have a frequency of 100. Linen has a frequency of 5000. Thus it is a healing fabric! The lady who wrote about it had a healing experience. She had pain in her wrist for 18 months. Had been to doctors. Nothing helped. One night she slept on a pillow with a linen pillowcase. Her pain was gone the next day. I listened to her talk about this in an interview by Paul Nison a few years ago. I have had a healing experience as well! Linen is amazing!
Lol, my mom wears camel hair kerchief on her back and it helps her with back pain. Go figure ;->