Primal Dream (2)
And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. Romans 8:28 NASB
God causes – Just a bit of added theological language here. In the Greek text there is no phrase “God causes.” It’s been added to the translation so that you don’t make the mistake of thinking that some inexorable force drives all creation for good (a la Star Wars). The reason Paul doesn’t need to specify that it is God, not fate or the Force, that moves the cosmos toward the good is simple. Paul’s Greek places “those who love God” in the first part of the verse. Literally, it reads, “We know that to those who love God all things work together for good.” But removing this little addition changes a few other things as well.
First, Paul’s assertion is not for everyone. Our translation might suggest that God works for the good even if we don’t have any clue that this is what’s happening. In other words, when the translators add “God causes,” the verse takes on the status of a timeless truth, as if Paul is saying, “God runs everything, even for people who don’t believe in Him.” But Paul is not Aquinas. He’s not making a case for an unmoved mover or a first cause. Paul is making a rabbinic comment. God’s purposes are manifest in those who love Him. Everyone else is collateral damage.
Of course, those who love Him don’t always see how all this works for good, but because they love Him, how it all works isn’t really important. They don’t love Him for what He does. They love Him for who He is. The visible (or invisible) handiwork is secondary. And because it is secondary, those who love Him are able to assert that everything is working for good because God is good. End of story.
But for those who do not love God, well—things are different. First, they have no reason to believe that things are working for good. They see what Qohelet saw (if they even see that). They are absorbed with what is good for them, and, of course, life doesn’t always work out that way. Because they don’t love God’s character, they have a tendency to only view God’s handiwork, and when “bad things happen to good people,” they conclude that God must not be doing His job. Or, as the Psalmist suggests, they think that God isn’t paying attention and they can get away with whatever they wish to do. Either way, consequences befall them.
Most importantly, Paul asserts that seeing good is not simply a matter of observation. Seeing good in this world requires spiritual glasses and those are only available to people who are committed to God’s character. Spiritual glasses are able to see beyond the horizon. That view isn’t for everyone. It’s for tois agaposi ton theon. They dream God’s dream. The rest of humanity has a nightmare.
Topical Index: those who love God, tois agaposi ton theon, Romans 8:28
” The inner value of any entity- men or women, trees or stars, ideas or things – is, as a matter of fact, not entirely subject to any purpose of ours. They have a value in themselves quite apart from any function which makes them useful to our purposes. This is particularly true of man, for it is his essence, that secret of his being in which both existence and meaning are rooted, that commands our respect ……so that even though we know no way in which he might be useful, or no means of subordinating him to any end or purpose, we should esteem him for that alone.
The secret of every being is in the divine care and concern that are invested in it. ” A B Heschel
If I understand Heschel correctly, I think he might be in disagreement with your statement: “God’s purposes are manifest in those who love Him.” ? Can God not find purpose in anyone or anything: the stones, the donkey, Cyrus?
Those who love God might understand their purpose better from God’s perspective?
I am just jumping in to say hi to Luzette, think of you often hope all is well.
Cheryl
Hi Cheryl
All is well, thank you. We are very excited (and sad) for my son is leaving for North Dakota on Tuesday. I’ll talk to you on whatsapp?
I have alsways wonder about the word ‘causes’ in this passage. Thanks for clearing this up. There are many other places where “God causes” is used, and it seems when that is stated free will is taken away.. ie Pharaoh. Perhaps there is something you wrote before on this?
Yes, the phrase, “God causes….”, is somewhat muddy verbiage. But actually, it also isn’t “all things”, or all circumstances, per se, that “cause” or do the “work” such that the outcome is for the good of those who love God, are called according to His purpose. It IS God, who, in sense, “causes” this to be so, and not “all things”. “All things” implies both that which is good and that which is evil. Of course, that which is good can help to cause a good outcome. But this implies that, beyond that which is good, even evil, can cause a good outcome. How can that be? It cannot. Not in and of itself.
So this verse does not mean to imply that “all things” make for good outcomes, in and of themselves. “All things” can be other beings or they can be situational. They can be good and they can be evil. But they cannot, in and of themselves, especially if they are evil, cause a good outcome. Even if “things” are good, one can resist them and they will be of no benefit to that one. So the same can be said for that which is evil. One can resist it’s intended ultimate outcome and the outcome will not be evil. It can be good.
Although it would be impossible for things to turn out for our good if it wasn’t God who “causes” it or is at work to make it turn out so, it is not He alone which makes it work out for good. It is God AND it is those who cooperate with Him, in response to all things, all circumstances, that does the working, that causes it to turn out for good.
“For the One working in you is God—both to will and to work for His good pleasure.” [Php 2:13]
So, that which is at work to make things turn out for good are both God and those who love Him, those who are called according to His purpose, in response to all things, good and evil, just like Messiah learned obedience through the things He suffered.
The phrase, “God causes all things work together for good to those who love God, who are called according to His purpose”, really means this:
God is at work in those who love Him, who are called according to His purpose, so that those ones will become willing and will do the work of cooperating with Him, in response to all things, all circumstances, other beings and situations, good and evil, so that everything turns out for His and their good pleasure, which is ultimately knowing Him and being conformed to Messiah, and Messiah being formed in them.
Now there is this statement, “But for those who do not love God, well—things are different. First, they have no reason to believe that things are working for good. They are absorbed with what is good for them.” This is true, in the sense that they are absorbed in what SITUATIONS are good for them. But, we are ALL absorbed in what is good for us. It’s just that those whose faith pleases God know better and care more about what is good and therefore what pleases God and are, therefore, more absorbed with His ultimate intentions for good, and not just absorbed with situations. For even “those people” may have faith. Just not a faith that pleases God. They may believe that He exists. They (and doesn’t this sometimes include even “us”) just might not believe He is a rewarder of those who trust and obey Him, that He is at work to cause all things to work for their (our) good.
“But without belief it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Elohim has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him.” [Heb 11:6]
Lastly, about this statement, “God’s purposes are manifest in those who love Him. Everyone else is collateral damage.” Is everyone else, “unintended targets upon whom injury is inflicted”? Or does He actually intend to injure those who do not love Him, are not called according to His purpose? This is a hard question about the character of God, but it is important to know the truth about this.
“’Now just as I have watched over them to uproot and to pull down, to overthrow, to destroy, and to bring disaster, then I will watch over them to build and to plant,’ says Adonai.” [Jer 31:28]
Just because the others are collateral damage doesn’t mean God intends them injury. Damage comes in lots of forms, some of which are what God is doing to woo people back.
I’ve always had a problem with this view. Why not just talk to them in a clear and understandable way… This is a question I most probably will need to answer myself one day.
Those who have received the gift of opened eyes and ears may not be part of the plan of communicating the Will of El to those whom are still under penalty is a partial answer. The collateral damage as Skip calls it may be due to the veil referred to in Lamentations 3:65 which only El lifts because it is a corporate punishment upon Israel.
I think this veil may be that which reduces the clear understandable call to interaction with El’s grace in His Torah made flesh in Messiah & was the punishment of the curses for disobedience to the descendants of the covenant nation who then received the additional penalty 7 X’s more for continuing in disobedience when the initial generation was made aware of the Father’s desire for repentance to be expressed …… in the Assyrian and Babylonian episodes ……. that is His extension of grace was ignored by Israel and the plan included blinding partially Judah even though they returned and were not divorced. This is NOT God’s first desire for am Israel but the effect of Law which IS Grace & Righteousness. Grace without righteousness is corrupted and incomplete and those qualities are not the nature of God. WE all expect judgment at the end of the book but did we look for the present judgment? The Ezek 37 prophecy talks of the dryness of the bones being transformed back to life and given the spirit again. So Satan is not in control of all of what seemed hard but the judgment responses of God toward the Bloods of the people that turned from covenant have been upon many generations bar the remnants who remained faithful ( Judah partially) & those whom were separated to be His again from the nations. It seems in these times the Grace is extended to more individuals as the period of curse has ended where the Spirit is working in a supra abundance for us to desire to understand God Hebraically even though we may no have known our physical heritage, the spiritual is coming. All the world will be saved as Israel proclaims to all the Nations and Ephraim was prophesised to be the fullness of the Goyim..
These are some ideas that I have come across and they are part of the discussion but are not meant to be a be all and end all of understanding and are not generally the tone of this blog which is more intimate but we are a corporate identity as a body too. Shalom FJ
Seeker, we all choose our blindness because we think the truth is ‘bad’. We hide ourselves from the truth and lock the doors of our hearts on the inside. Now, short of force, how is that door going to be opened – from the outside, anyway? If God cannot force, because He is love, then what persuasion can be used? Enter the curses. “Curse” means “lessening of the blessing”. Curses are heavy they consume our energy and our good stuff and slow us down. Sinning people are literally insane; they have no way to hear the truth through the lies they are so desperately protecting. They have to be persuaded that the lies may not be good after all before they become willing to entertain something else. Disaster insists that we drop our current belief system because it did not keep us safe. At that point, and not until that point, are we even able to hear. It is not that He is not speaking all along; it is that we are not listening. God never hid His truth from us; we hid ourselves from it, and hide every day.
C. S. Lewis says that “God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pains: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world.”
I agree it is His intention, His desire and motivation, in part, with some, sometimes, to “woo people back”, but is it or is it not also His intention, His desire and motivation, in part, with some, sometimes, to injure, to afflict, in the process?
Also, the meaning of “collateral damage” is “unintended injury inflicted on those other than the intended targets”. So, by using that concept, it is being said that there is intention to inflict injury on someone. Those others who are injured, in “collateral damage”, are injured as a result of an “accident”, and they are not guilty or deserving of the injury that was intended to be inflicted on another. Do “accidents” happen by the hand of God?
Do you think it is possible to be a “good” person and yet not love God? Can one do good things and be essentially bad?
I imagine I am not the only person here who has been asked why God allows bad things to happen to good people. I never really have an answer in this case that seems to make sense to the person asking. Collateral damage is something I never really considered in God’s actions. I can see it clearly (now that I am looking) where He orders whole people groups destroyed. There had to be good people within those groups.
Life is really messy and I think people tend to make it even messier. Our desire to have earthly leaders makes us vulnerable to be caught up in things. Our desire to have others approval makes us really vulnerable as well. Nightmare seems like a good adjective here.
I am still of the mind that following after God and loving Him is far more simple than we think it is. We tend to concern ourselves with so much more than we should.
Awesome post points to consider today:-)
WHO’S WHO?
Who are “those who love God”?
“Whoever has my commandments and obeys them, he is the one who loves me.” Jn 14:21
That’s who.
Yeshua commandments or teachings…